Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Power Transportation Technology

America's EV Charging Infrastructure Has Doubled In Less Than Four Years (carscoops.com) 104

Posted by msmash from the marching-ahead dept.
The electric revolution has given way to a gradual transformation, but the groundwork is already being laid for the future. From a report: The Department of Energy recently highlighted this by noting the number of publicly available EV chargers has doubled since President Biden was inaugurated on January 20, 2021. According to the government, there are now more than 192,000 publicly available charging ports in the United States and around 1,000 are being added every week. The Department of Energy credited the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law as aiding the buildout, which is helping to bring charging infrastructure to rural, suburban, and urban communities.

The law provided funding for a $2.5 billion Charging and Fueling Infrastructure Discretionary Grant Program. A big chunk of that money is now heading out as the Biden administration recently announced $521 million in grants to support projects in 29 states as well as the District of Columbia and a few tribal areas. This will result in more than 9,200 charging ports being added, which means each one will cost roughly $56,630 -- although California's West Coast Truck Charging and Fueling Corridor Project also includes a hydrogen component.

America's EV Charging Infrastructure Has Doubled In Less Than Four Years More | Reply

America's EV Charging Infrastructure Has Doubled In Less Than Four Years

Comments Filter:

  • This clearly means that electric vehicles have failed and we will all go back to fossil fuels.

    • This clearly means that electric vehicles have failed and we will all go back to fossil fuels.

      Don't forget how EVs have horrible resale value yet I can't find any of these cheap used EVs for sale anywhere!

      • This clearly means that electric vehicles have failed and we will all go back to fossil fuels.

        Don't forget how EVs have horrible resale value yet I can't find any of these cheap used EVs for sale anywhere!

        Here you go [carvana.com]. Start looking.

      • You're not looking in Obvious [hertzcarsales.com] places...

        • Sooo...doubling the chargers.

          2*2 == 4

          PROGRESS...

          ;)

        • You're not looking in Obvious [hertzcarsales.com] places...

          As a customer of Hertz I would not recommend anyone buy a Hertz car I've driven, ... and to be frank they weren't in very good condition when I got them either. I feel like the parent probably had minimum standards for what they would buy.

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward

          So a national rental chain is unloading a bunch of shitty Chevy EVs and a handful of other badges. Color me underwhelmed.

          Just so we're talking numbers, disclosing the "make" filter on your own link shows the following brand breakout:
          BMW: 1
          Chevrolet: 270
          Ford: 46
          Kia: 1
          Mercedes: 46
          Mini: 1
          Subaru: 11
          Tesla: 65
          Volvo: 41

          That a national rental chain only has 482 EVs they're trying to unload across several model years isn't making the point you think it is. They also have 38,857 gasoline cars for sale on the same s

      • Then you haven't been looking. I had to buy a 'new' second hand car because my previous (ICE) car died, so I had to go look for another, and to my surprise, there were a lot of pre-owned EV's available, way more than I expected, also a lot of hybrids.

      • Re:Failure again (Score:4, Informative)

        by drillbug ( 126567 ) on Friday September 06, 2024 @12:03PM (#64768216)

        [Bulk Reply to all of the "buy here" links]

        You are all making my point -- Picking up a used Bolt for $18k is from an original MSRP of $24k is hardly "cratered resale value OMG". I think the Bolts are fantastic and will be looking closely at the reintroduction next model year.

        But if EVs are such shit that nobody is buying them used, then why can't I pick up a 2022 or so for $10-12k? I can imagine at the high end, a $100k model might go for $50k after two years, but that is just because those aren't designed to be useful, just to help people with too much money get rid of some of it.

        • The used car market aint 2004 anymore, unless you want a like Mitsubishi Mirage with 100k miles or a similar lower budget model with 60k+ there are barely any 2022 year cars of any type for $10-12k. If you want a model year 2022 vehichle with reasonably low mileage of any type you are going to be around the $20k mark

          https://www.autotrader.com/car... [autotrader.com]

      • Don't forget how EVs have horrible resale value yet I can't find any of these cheap used EVs for sale anywhere!

        You may not be looking hard enough.

        Hell, there's a lot of car dealers that are NOT wanting to buy used EVs or take them as trade in.

    • No it doesn't. EV's are the future, we're just still at the beginning of EV's, and they already have progressed more as ICE did in the early days. With the new batteries coming soon, and even much better batteries in the next 10 years, you really don't want to go back to ICE cars. Let's use the oil for fossil fuels for more important things as the oil is running out anyway within the next hundred years if we keep continue using it for vehicles.

    • I assume this was meant to be sarcasm and it just "wooshed" everyone?

  • You can probably get them from the last time Slashdot posted this story last week:

    https://hardware.slashdot.org/... [slashdot.org]

    The most notable thing from the comments from the last time this was posted as that most of the EV charging stations that were publicly funded aren't open yet. They're still in the planning and permitting phases.

    • your tax dollars at work
    • As an EV owner by far the biggest downside is the lack of reliable fast chargers that can actually charge vehicles along major freeways. Either they are broken, or are installed with a stubby cord to save money but then can’t charge about 40% of vehicles because it doesn't reach, or are the wrong style of plug. At least the US picked a standard and it will hopefully mean the last point goes away quickly. I had thought we learned our lesson with phone chargers.

      Next would be the cost, I pay $0.14/k

      • We have 1 party obsessed over government STANDARDS insisting industry will always do the right thing... it could have been standardized a decade ago.

        We never learned our lesson on phone chargers! The EU stepped in and solved that problem; we didn't do jack. We're still not even doing metric.

      • Re:If you're looking for quality EV hate comments. (Score:5, Informative)

        by Zobeid ( 314469 ) on Friday September 06, 2024 @01:37PM (#64768530)

        I think you must have meant to write, "As a non-Tesla EV owner. . ."

        Road tripping in my Model S has been easy and fun. However, I've already seen a Rivian and a Ford Lightning use the Supercharger station in my little town, with their adapters, and it looks like Hyundai will soon roll out the first NACS-native model.

        • It never should have been legal to create a network of chargers that service only 1 brand, let’s see how well it would fly to open a gas station that refused service to everyone but fords. Tesla was forced to open them up (almost entirely with a software update) or get them forced open. Even still, you delude yourself, Tesla does not have enough chargers to do anything except travel between common locations along major highways and suffers the same problem, doubly so now anyone can use them so my po

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by kenh ( 9056 )

            It never should have been legal to create a network of chargers that service only 1 brand

            Why?

            They were private chargers paid for with private funds to promote the sale of Tesla cars. At the time there was no standard, and other auto makers could have adopted Teslas standard, but chose not to.

            • Because monopolies are not allowed in America, well, at least not supposed to be.
              • How is a government imposed standard and different. Does it stop being a monopoly because a corporation isn't involved or didn't make the decision? Your post is even more ridiculous when you consider the ancestor posts talking about other cars using adapters to charge at the Tesla charging stations.

                Tesla invested its own money and can do whatever the hell it wants. None of my tax dollars were wasted as a result of their choices one way or the other.

                • Your post is even more ridiculous when you consider the ancestor posts talking about other cars using adapters to charge at the Tesla charging stations.

                  You are the one who is ignorant here, the NACS adoption and forcing open of Tesla chargers only happened in the last year, leaving a decade of denying anyone else fast charging for no reason other than trying to create a monopoly. Tell me you have no knowledge but are overconfident without saying so explicitly.

      • And yet my wife and I just successfully handled a road trip in our EV this last holiday weekend, where we had absolutely no problems finding chargers, zero wait to plug in, and zero hassle. Plug in, walk into the convenience store to use the restroom and buy a snack, eat the snack at a convenient table inside meant for exactly that, walk back out to the car and watch Netflix for 10 minutes, and then unplug and continue down the road. Total cost for fast charging for the entire trip: $25

        What a terrible exp

        • And yet my wife and I just successfully handled a road trip in our EV this last holiday weekend, where we had absolutely no problems finding chargers, zero wait to plug in, and zero hassle. Plug in, walk into the convenience store to use the restroom and buy a snack, eat the snack at a convenient table inside meant for exactly that, walk back out to the car and watch Netflix for 10 minutes, and then unplug and continue down the road. Total cost for fast charging for the entire trip: $25

          What a terrible experience. I don't know how I'll manage it!

          WOW! One route in the entire nation didn’t have a problem when you went!! There is no need for improvement, because it’s fine for just you out of 300 million other people! Congratulations!

          Back in reality, I too took a 400 mile road trip recently. At a major charge station there were 4 350kW pumps. Normally this would mean 8 charging plugs and if two use the same pump it splits the power so you could only expect 175kW but because they were installed in parking spaces the second charge cabl

          • Did you really just try to hit me with "your anecdote doesn't count because here's my anecdote" ?

            Congratulations on a completely meaningless post. Meanwhile, literally hundreds of thousands of people have managed to figure this out without problems. What does that say about you?

            • Did you really just try to hit me with "your anecdote doesn't count because here's my anecdote" ?

              Congratulations on a completely meaningless post. Meanwhile, literally hundreds of thousands of people have managed to figure this out without problems. What does that say about you?

              It says you lack reading comprehension. I mentioned valid problems that are the top complaints because they are actually real. You come back saying one trip was fine as if that disproves the above problems around a million people face and so I provided an actual example of how it does not work. If someone says something is fine and implies there are no problems all it takes is one example to show it’s not.

      • As an EV owner by far the biggest downside is the lack of reliable fast chargers that can actually charge vehicles along major freeways. Either they are broken, or are installed with a stubby cord to save money but then canâ(TM)t charge about 40% of vehicles because it doesn't reach, or are the wrong style of plug.

        You bought the wrong brand of EV.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kenh ( 9056 )

        Next would be the cost, I pay $0.14/kWh at home including all taxes and fees but at pumps I routinely have to pay $0.20 up to $1/kwh

        I'm sorry, you think electricity should be subsidized also? It's not enough that EV companies get federal money to:
        design the car,
        build battery plants,
        install public chargers,
        install private (home) chargers,
        subsidize the purchase of new EVs,
        subsidize the purchase of a used EV,
        AND not tax/charge EV drivers for the roads (infrastructure) they need, no we need to subsidize electricity also?

        Uh, no.

    • > The most notable thing from the comments from the last time

      The only comment to say that appears to be yours, and someone highlighted the absurdity of it. Good job.

      The stations are real [consumeraffairs.com]. If there is any tomfoolery to be found in the reporting, it's the buried lede that most of these 192,000 stations are Level 2. Which is fine and honestly that's what we need more of anyway in my opinion, but L2 chargers are not what people think of when they hear about EV charging.

      =Smidge=

      • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

        by wasteoftime ( 1391425 )
        The other problem is most DC Fast chargers are rated at about 62.5KW, which means a 240 mile range needs about one hour of charging. Fine for home, or possibly even work, but not what folks have in mind for a refuel on the go. DC fast chargers rated above say 150KW are what most people think of when talking about charging on the go (i.e. not at home). The total number of these is ~6K...many more are needed.

        • > The other problem is most DC Fast chargers are rated at about 62.5KW

          Where does that number come from? The only public database I know of is NREL's alternative fuel station locator [energy.gov] which lists 10,950 DCFC stations, which breaks down to:

          3,423 350kw

          Very annoyingly, it lets you filter by power range but the actual data you download does not include that information.
          =Smidge=

          • I use this site from US Gov: https://driveelectric.gov/embe... [driveelectric.gov] It seems fairly accurate because it includes some recent (within 2 months) chargers that I know about. On the advanced filters you can select for various properties, including "greener" fuel types. By default it includes Canada (under "location"). By filtering for power output you can see most DC Fast chargers are less than 150KW, and spot checking various stations shows that most in this category are ~62.5KW. Note: that stations with multipl

            • Okay but like... basically all of the older Tesla stations are 100kW (V1) and 125-150kW (V2) and those account for the VAST majority of older DCFC stations that would fall into that category, because EA being the second largest network is all 150kw or 350kw. I've personally used stations as slow as 50kw but they are RARE.

              =Smidge=

            • They are probably Chademo or Level 2 chargers - virtually all the CCS and Tesla chargers are 100Kw+

              • This is definitely not true for CCS. The ones being put in now probably are, but certainly not the older ones and not even all new ones. For example my city just put a CCS one in and it is on 62KW.

                Not sure on the numbers for Tesla since my source does not list output rating for their stations.

                Furthermore, at this time those rated above 250KW are a bit of a red herring since no car charges that fast. Hopefully will be useful in the future as battery science improves, but right now fully useful.

          • I replied before I checked your link...it is the same as mine. I go into the advanced filters and play around to get info in subcategories. For DC Fast chargers there are ~10K that are 150KW and below. I sampled about 50 or so random ones to see details and the majority were 62.5KW...seems that was the big thing a few years ago. Note that roughly 1/3 of DC Fast chargers in the below 150KW category are under 50KW rating. I would bet my assessment of most DC Fast chargers in US are 62.5KW.

        • The other problem is most DC Fast chargers are rated at about 62.5KW, which means a 240 mile range needs about one hour of charging. Fine for home, or possibly even work, but not what folks have in mind for a refuel on the go.

          The thing about refuelling on the go is there's only a very small market for it. The only place you need super fast chargers are at highway truck stops. For everything else, destination charging and home charging is the name of the game. For that L2 and lower power L3 chargers are the name of the game.

          • Perhaps for your use case, but typically the number one concern on using EVs in US is range and charging on the go. It matters more than anything else.

      • The EV stations are real, but only 8 of them paid for with new US government funding are actually online so far:

        https://www.autoweek.com/news/... [autoweek.com]

        • Be real cool of you if you'd stop spreading this lie. Like, in the very first word they fail to acknowledge that only a fraction of the $7.5B has been released, and of that only a fraction has actually been awarded.

          And it's actually only $5B if we only consider the specific program in question (National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure; aka NEVI), there is another $2.5B in a totally separate funding program (Discretionary Grant Program for Charging and Fueling Infrastructure) which also supplies funding for

          • I'm just trying to refute the story that keeps getting (repeatedly) posted to Slashdot that tries to falsely link the doubling of EV charging infrastructure to these government infrastructure bill grants. You pointed out that much of the money haven't been released yet, and I pointed out that very few stations have been built using that money so far.

            Tesla probably built a large portion of those new stations for their supercharger network without any government money, and Electrify America also built a bunch

            • > I'm just trying to refute the story

              Well, if you have to lie repeatedly to do that, then maybe you don't actually have a valid opinion on the matter.

              =Smidge=

    • The most notable thing from the comments from the last time this was posted as that most of the EV charging stations that were publicly funded aren't open yet. They're still in the planning and permitting phases.

      Why does it sound so negative when you say it like that. Let me paraphrase:

      The most notable thing from the comments last time was that there's a lot more charging stations still coming, already in the planning and permitting phases.

  • When you start at one, add one and you double! (Score:4, Informative)

    by nightflameauto ( 6607976 ) on Friday September 06, 2024 @11:40AM (#64768112)

    It's not hard to double minimal numbers. Doubling the piddling bit we had before Biden doesn't sound all that impressive when the promises were for so much more. Granted, I suppose on some level it's impressive they managed to do anything at all. So, you know, there's that.

    • They're commonplace where I live, at least according to the locator apps. The reality is much more frustrating.

      Take away the ones that don't exist at the stated location, then subtract the ones that are out of order, then subtract the ones that are in no-trespassing garages, then subtract the ones with incompatible connectors, then subtract the ones where the cables are cut off and stolen, and it's a challenge to find one. Once you find one there's a good chance it's occupied.

    • It's not hard to double minimal numbers.

      There's nothing "minimal" about the numbers in the USA. Sure they aren't Europe, but they aren't that far behind either. As of right now you can roadtrip almost anywhere in the USA with an EV. In Europe the problem is now one of volume rather than reach, but America at least has the reach part covered. Many countries don't.

      • I disagree. There are lots of chargers in US, but not very many practical ones (L2 ones are not practical away from home). I bet when most people talk about charging on the go (i.e. not at home) they envision at least 150KW rating - about 300 miles or better for 30 min of charging. When this is considered the US has a long way to go. Total chargers rated at least 150KW is about 6K - not very many.

        See this for example: https://driveelectric.gov/embe... [driveelectric.gov]

        • There are lots of chargers in US, but not very many practical ones (L2 ones are not practical away from home).

          And yet my point stands. Most of the chargers in Europe are L2 as well. As to them not being practical away from home, it all depends on where they are. Restaurant, sporting complexes, your workplace, easily a situation where you car can spend several hours and get a very significant charge in the process. ... Okay not restaurants due to the bizarre American dine-and-dash concept where waiters basically smother you with fast service.

          Total chargers rated at least 150KW is about 6K - not very many.

          That's very goalpost moving. Did you pick that number to specifically exclu

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kenh ( 9056 )

        Biden promised 500,000 new chargers by 2030,were 18 months into that 7 year promise, and a few dozen new chargers have been rolled out AS PART OF THE IRA investment - the vast majority of public chargers were built under the federal tax subsidy program that pre-dates Biden and was extended by Biden.

        Last year the Whitehouse said:

        To ensure ready access to charging and spur good manufacturing jobs at home, President Biden has publicly committed to building out a convenient, reliable, and user-friendly national network of 500,000 EV chargers by 2030.

        https://www.whitehouse.gov/bri... [whitehouse.gov]

        If you divide that number by 7, that implies we'll build-out some 70,000 chargers every year, I think we're at about 7/year, not 70,000/year...

        • Yeah I know. I wanted a baby in 1 month so I expect 9 women to be able to arrange that.

          Seriously your post is just dumb. Building infrastructure takes time. Are you surprised that the majority of the money spent in the past 18 months is sitting in approval stage?

          This isn't a marvel movie. You can't snap your finger with the reality stone in your glove and pop charging stations into existence. Less movies, and more actual reality for you.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by thosdot ( 659245 )

          Biden promised 500,000 new chargers by 2030...

          There's only far an executive order will take you, given that the GOP now control the house, and the Senate was always at the mercy of Oilman Joe Manchin.

        • They have to deal with Republican states putting up as many road blocks as possible

    • I'll never understand why BEVs and green tech is so polarized on Slashdot. I would expect those who don't understand to get drowned out by those who do.

      It's not hard to double minimal numbers. Doubling the piddling bit we had before Biden doesn't sound all that impressive when the promises were for so much more.

      You think doubling 96,000 stations is piddling? You know there's only a bit more than 100,000 gas stations in the US, right? https://247wallst.com/energy/2... [247wallst.com]
      Unlike the mandatory need for gas stations, people with BEVs can charge at home, work, hotels or pretty much any place where someone wants to put a charger. The idea and need to visit a place dedica

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kenh ( 9056 )

        When we count chargers, we count cables to charge cars. The reasonable comparison is not the number of gas stations, but the number of gas PUMPS - here in Texas we have gas stations with over 120 gas pumps.

        There are private chargers that benefit from tax subsidies (30%?) and then there are the new chargers promised by President.

        The 96,000 chargers were built by private individuals/corporations, only a handful were funded by the $5BN the President put aside.

        The administration wants credit for private charger

    • Do you know they aren't done yet?

      Do you know that all of the chargers planned to be built under the Inflation Reduction Act and the Bipartisan Infrastructure bill are block grants of money, paid to state Departments of Transportation to identify sites, permit, and build the chargers; and they've barely started to come online?

      Expect more doublings in the next two years. Several more.

  • Capitalists hate money (Score:3)

    by burtosis ( 1124179 ) on Friday September 06, 2024 @11:46AM (#64768136)
    I always hear how creating massive new demand and the pipelines to create even more profits are really hated and despised. Capitalists never seek out places to create guaranteed profit pipelines where the money keeps coming in each month as a service. So it should come as no surprise that the adoption of EV and the additional 20% expansion to the grid over what was planned without them is so hated, they don’t want money.

    Wait, that sounds really stupid and backwards now that I type it out.

    • I always hear how creating massive new demand and the pipelines to create even more profits are really hated and despised. Capitalists never seek out places to create guaranteed profit pipelines where the money keeps coming in each month as a service. So it should come as no surprise that the adoption of EV and the additional 20% expansion to the grid over what was planned without them is so hated, they don’t want money.

      Ask Ford and VW what that massive new demand looks like. Capitalists are rightly skeptical of demand that only exists because the government forces it to.

  • Cost Per Plug (Score:4, Informative)

    by Zobeid ( 314469 ) on Friday September 06, 2024 @01:27PM (#64768486)

    quote: This will result in more than 9,200 charging ports being added, which means each one will cost roughly $56,630

    Last year Tesla put in an 8-stall Supercharger station in my little town, and the rumored cost for the entire station was in the ballpark of $250,000. They got it done super fast too. They dug trenches, put in the conduits and thick power cables, then trucked in a couple of pre-fabricated 4-pedestal modules and dropped them into place. They were almost as long waiting for the transformer to arrive as it had taken to build the station.

    That national transformer shortage is another interesting subject to look into. The construction manager lamented that we don't have more companies producing modern, high-efficiency transformers. There's opportunity for disruption there, he thought.

  • Didn't we discuss this back on Aug. 28th? Why yes, we did...

    https://hardware.slashdot.org/... [slashdot.org]

  • Odd thing about EVs (Score:3)

    by buss_error ( 142273 ) on Friday September 06, 2024 @02:52PM (#64768776) Homepage Journal

    A lot of people really, really hate them. Cool. I can understand that there are things about them you don't like. So.... maybe ... I know this sounds silly:
    Don't buy one.
    You can shut the fuck up now.

  • Keep working at it and maybe someday you will match China's commitment to renewable energy.

  • This article seems to conveniently leave out the number of "Out of order" stations

  • The law provided funding for a $2.5 billion Charging and Fueling Infrastructure Discretionary Grant Program. A big chunk of that money is now heading out as the Biden administration recently announced $521 million in grants to support projects in 29 states as well as the District of Columbia and a few tribal areas. This will result in more than 9,200 charging ports being added, which means each one will cost roughly $56,630

    From the above:

    $2.5BN in available funding
    $521M to build 9,200 chargers
    $56K/charger

    So, if those numbers hold, that $2.5BN can fund about 50,000 chargers, right?

    EXCEPT the Biden Admin promised 500,000 chargers, that would cost a bit more - rounding the numbers, at $50,000/each, 500,000 chargers will cost about $25 billion.

    • I would guess they are putting funds towards the States building those chargers and not paying for each one in full

  • Many people charge their EVs at home. This is the ideal situation because (1) there is no contention for chargers, (2) it's usually cheaper, (3) the chargers are usually operational and if not can be fixed or swapped out by the car owner, and (4) there's no need to go out of one's way to charge. Some people charge at work, but as the number of EVs increase, chargers at work will become oversubscribed.

    The real question is what are the thresholds for the number (and location and type) of charging stations t

    • About 35% of the US population lives in apartments and likely don't have the ability to charge at home. That's a substantial hurdle to wide adoption when a third of the population is functionally inaccessible.

      =Smidge=

Slashdot Top Deals

The wages of sin are unreported.

Close