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Oakland Changes License Plate Reader Policy After Filling 80GB Hard Drive 275

An anonymous reader writes: License plate scanners are a contentious subject, generating lots of debate over what information the government should have, how long they should have it, and what they should do with it. However, it seems policy changes are driven more by practical matters than privacy concerns. Earlier this year, Ars Technica reported that the Oakland Police Department retained millions of records going back to 2010. Now, the department has implemented a six-month retention window, with older data being thrown out. Why the change? They filled up the 80GB hard drive on the Windows XP desktop that hosted the data, and it kept crashing.

Why not just buy a cheap drive with an order of magnitude more storage space? Sgt. Dave Burke said, "We don't just buy stuff from Amazon as you suggested. You have to go to a source, i.e., HP or any reputable source where the city has a contract. And there's a purchase order that has to be submitted, and there has to be money in the budget. Whatever we put on the system, has to be certified. You don't just put anything. I think in the beginning of the program, a desktop was appropriate, but now you start increasing the volume of the camera and vehicles, you have to change, otherwise you're going to drown in the amount of data that's being stored."
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Oakland Changes License Plate Reader Policy After Filling 80GB Hard Drive

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  • Bureaucracy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Roodvlees ( 2742853 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @08:08AM (#50394485)
    Sometimes it can do good...
    • Re:Bureaucracy (Score:5, Interesting)

      by war4peace ( 1628283 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @08:09AM (#50394503)

      Yeah but the amount of occurrences where it does good is swamped by those where it does awful things to everyone.

      • by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @08:33AM (#50394725) Journal

        There are, however, good reasons for bureaucracy in government. If government officials can just do whatever they think makes sense, without any accountability to the people, you end up with North Korea. Efficient, but at a cost.

        One reason we have processes in place is so that Sgt Blow doesn't buy a $5000, 200 GB hard drive from his brother. Another reason is that doing bad things on a wide scale costs money. With specific budget items, the citizens of Oakland could decide to cut the budget for license plate readers to $0, and end the program.

        So all the red tape in government in the US is inefficient and annoying, but it's there for a good reason - a few good reasons in fact. Where we get into trouble is in when we pretend it doesn't exist. Like a few years ago, people saying "we can all have healthcare like VA provides, they do a great job". Well, the VA is a giant government bureaucracy, with all of the problems that come with a giant government bureaucracy. It's when we pretend that more government bureaucracy will make things more efficient, less costly, or faster that we get in trouble.

        • 1) they can spy on everyone in perpetuity
          2) they can't make rational buying decisions

          Yay?

        • by bluefoxlucid ( 723572 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @09:07AM (#50395001) Homepage Journal

          Yes, and project management, properly-tracked procurements, and approval processes make sense; bidding wars and approved vendor sources don't. I'd just as soon have them start troubleshooting, identify the problem, carry out a Kepner-Tregoe decision analysis to figure on how to address it, and then buy drives on Amazon to load up an empty SAN chassis and mount storage through an HBA. If the drives meet spec--not "oh these are cheap, they'll probably explode under load," but "We were going to get WD Caviar Black drives from HP, but Amazon sells them for $80 instead of $350; we're buying them from Amazon and self-insuring because we have 400 of them"--then go for it.

          • by slew ( 2918 )

            bidding wars and approved vendor sources don't.

            You clearly are not aware of how bad a no-bid procurement process can get. Sadly I've seen it in action and let's say it would put third world countries to shame. Not that the current system eliminates the problem, but it does reduce it's magnitude.

            Also, you can't do social engineering w/o approved vendors sources (not that I approve of social engineering by government, but apparently a large majority of people seem to want it). Things like minority or woman owned businesses contract/sub-contract set-as

            • There are decision systems you can use to make clean, traceable decisions. Analytical hierarchy is basically a pile of shit; pugh matrices evolve to weighted pugh matrices, which then evolve to attribute-baselined weighted pugh matrices--what Kepner-Tregoe claims as their "decision analysis" process.

              Pugh matrices take a baseline alternative and rate each alternative as better, worse, or similar to it. Weighted pugh matrices specify, numerically, how important each attribute is. The KT Decision Analysis

          • I see where you're going and in some sense I agree. I had to laugh at this, though:

            > approval processes make sense; bidding wars and approved vendor sources don't. I'd just as soon have them start troubleshooting, identify the problem, carry out a Kepner-Tregoe decision analysis to figure on how to address it,

            The problem is that the 80 GB drive in a PC is full. Super Walmart (an approved supplier) sells Western Digital 1 TB replacement drives for $100. They could either:

            A) Stop at Walmart while they're

            • B) Carry out a Bulshet-Hokey determination analysis process, with the help of a consultant.

              Actually, those decisions were made when they selected their contracts. They now have these endless procurement processes which they should probably shorten.

              The concept of no-bid contracts versus endless bidding wars is separate from this bureaucratic procurement process. You've conflated the spot purchase of a hard drive, which doesn't need any sort of contract bid, with a comment made about contract bidding. Your argument is thus ridiculous and unfounded.

              • > Your argument is thus ridiculous and unfounded.

                It's not really an argument, it just struck me as funny. Like a Dilbert comic. I used to work for the government, so I'm familiar with ridiculousness in procurement.

                > The concept of no-bid contracts versus endless bidding wars is separate from this bureaucratic procurement process. You've conflated the spot purchase of a hard drive, which doesn't need any sort of contract bid, with a comment made about contract bidding.

                Well if it's a contract to provide

        • by war4peace ( 1628283 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @09:29AM (#50395181)

          Wait a second.
          I don't mind paperwork.

          In this case, Sergeant what's-his-name could look up prices for HDDs on Amazon, fill a form asking for 100 dollars to buy a larger HDD and 50 dollars to pay for installation services and be done with it. Paperwork's done, tracked, everyone's happy.

          Bureaucracy is fine as long as it doesn't become ridiculous. Processes need to be streamlined and efficient. When they become cumbersome and tedious, they need to be rethought.

          • Wait a second. I don't mind paperwork.

            In this case, Sergeant what's-his-name could look up prices for HDDs on Amazon, fill a form asking for 100 dollars to buy a larger HDD and 50 dollars to pay for installation services and be done with it.

            Yeah, let that non-IT guy do the procurement process. I mean, how much worse can it get than what they’ve already done (implementing a critical system to run on a desktop) anyway?

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by tburkhol ( 121842 )

            In this case, Sergeant what's-his-name could look up prices for HDDs on Amazon, fill a form asking for 100 dollars to buy a larger HDD and 50 dollars to pay for installation services and be done with it. Paperwork's done, tracked, everyone's happy.

            No, in this case, Sergeant what's-his-name looked at the time he'd have to spend filling out a purchase requisition and decided the data just wasn't worth that. Five years of historical license plate location data is not as valuable to his department's investigations as a coffee break.

            What are license plate scanners actually good for? The present location of stolen cars. Maybe some location data for crimes currently under investigation (ie, a few weeks). Not last year's crimes. Strangely, this is what

          • by garyisabusyguy ( 732330 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @11:50AM (#50396333)

            Ahhh...

            But the Sergeant really does not want another hard drive on the existing PC

            He wants to force a situation where they consider 'long term needs' and end up with multiple image processing workstations, a central server, terabytes of SAN storage and a searchable metadata database

            He will only get this by killing the current system and then driving through a study on future needs, meeting current needs with an inexpensive hard drive will not procure the millions of dollars that he wants

        • You give the scenerio of an overpriced hard drive purchased from his brother. Obviously that would be bad, but so is a system that is stuck in the mud. Doing nothing also costs money (in lost productivity and output). These losses tend to be overlooked because they are harder to quantify. That doesn't make them any less real.

          Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favour of this particular surveillance program, but it is frustrating to see minor IT issues becoming roadblocks. I have seen similar situations to this o

        • by Raenex ( 947668 )

          There are, however, good reasons for bureaucracy in government. If government officials can just do whatever they think makes sense, without any accountability to the people, you end up with North Korea. Efficient, but at a cost.

          Using North Korea as an anti-bureaucratic example is bizarre. It's the ultimate bureaucracy. It's just that they are accountable to government higher-ups and ultimately a dictator that can have you killed on a whim.

      • And that's why the software is running on someone's desktop just like most instances of TFS/Git etc
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      "We don't just buy stuff from Amazon as you suggested. You have to go to a source, i.e., HP or any reputable source where the city has a contract. And there's a purchase order that has to be submitted, and there has to be money in the budget."

      And this, my friends, is how you end up with $6500 price tag for $70 hard drive. Bureaucracy, it's good for you!

      • "We don't just buy stuff from Amazon as you suggested. You have to go to a source, i.e., HP or any reputable source where the city has a contract. And there's a purchase order that has to be submitted, and there has to be money in the budget."

        And this, my friends, is how you end up with $6500 price tag for $70 hard drive. Bureaucracy, it's good for you!

        No, this is what happens when you don't have at least one competent IT person on your staff.

        As someone else pointed out, it's important to have purchasing rules in place to prevent things like spending $6500 on a $70 hard drive that is purchased from a company run by some politician's brother. That's why you need to employ a competent IT person who can say "I can buy a hard drive from Amazon that's exactly the same as the one you'll get from HP, but we'll pay a lot less".

        • That's why you need to employ a competent IT person who can say "I can buy a hard drive from Amazon that's exactly the same as the one you'll get from HP, but we'll pay a lot less".

          And then the supply-chain bureaucrats say "you won't be installing anything in City-owned IT assets unless it was bought through the supply chain organization, and you'll be terminated with cause if you try."

          What, do you really think the bureaucrats would actually allow you to circumvent them? The essence of being the middleman

    • by mi ( 197448 )

      Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.

      — Will Rogers

  • Or you could.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JeffOwl ( 2858633 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @08:08AM (#50394497)
    Just stop keeping data on average citizens for which you don't really have any justification.
    • Re: Or you could.. (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Now you are headed somewhere - and not just for Civil Liberty reasons.

      Years ago I worked for a clinic. They were going through reams of paper and toner cartridges. Their vendor said that the printer is no longer supported by the manufacture and that drums and cartridges are no longer available. I told them that Amazon sells them for about 30% less. Nope. They had an account and buying from Amazonmp means using personal CCs and getting reimbursed and paper work.

      I looked at the workflow and all of those print

      • Just stop keeping data on average citizens for which you don't really have any justification.

        So, why are they collecting all that data in the first place? Is it really necessary for them to do their jobs and protect the public?

        Storing it all because some sales rep told them a great story about picking up a cold case, going back through the records, and finding that Thuggy McBadguy had been close to a convenience store when it was robbed in 2011. Five years later, they're out of disk space, and it turns out they've never actually looked at any of that archived data.

        The more interesting question is why this department finds the 20 minutes to fill out a purchase order a more compelling reason to review their perpetual data retentio

    • Given their apparent cluelessness, they probably don't have backups, so the problem will eventually solve itself.
  • It' called COTS (Score:5, Insightful)

    by LWATCDR ( 28044 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @08:08AM (#50394499) Homepage Journal

    Common off the shelf.
    You it department needs to learn about and be authorized to use COTS for items less than $100.

    • Re:It' called COTS (Score:5, Interesting)

      by mwfischer ( 1919758 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @08:14AM (#50394549) Journal

      but but but how can CIOs and Directors get free stuff if they don't allow private companies to power fist a publically funded organization?

      In the past these were discounts. Now they're licenses to steal.

      • by bigpat ( 158134 )

        In the past these were discounts. Now they're licenses to steal.

        We seriously need procurement reform and standardization across government at all levels. Not sure there is a silver bullet there, since more procurement regulations have often meant less and less competition as fewer people are making purchasing decisions and fewer and fewer companies can afford to play the bidding game. Just saying that government needs to get the best deal doesn't make it so.

        For things like a hard drive which should be considered a commodity I would think there should just be some comb

    • by TopherC ( 412335 )

      I liked the terms quoted: "reputable source" and "certified." These are great BS words that many people actually believe guarantees higher quality. This product must be good because we have a contract with its supplier. Windows XP is certified and thus much more reliable than, say, Windows 7, CentOS 7, or Arch Linux. Perception dominates.

      Of course the OS and hardware make very little difference compared to the application software they are using, whatever that may be.

    • Re:It' called COTS (Score:5, Interesting)

      by CrimsonAvenger ( 580665 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @09:54AM (#50395347)
      Actually, COTS mean Commercial Off The Shelf. It was originally a military acronym dealing with things that didn't need a MilSpec....
  • Honest Sgt (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bhcompy ( 1877290 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @08:11AM (#50394527)
    So, this Sgt is being honest, and likely will get his hand slapped for it. I work with public IT. Public organizations have contracts with vendors and vendors upcharge like crazy to sell these items, and none of the technical staff can do anything about it, and that's assuming the entity's IT isn't outsourced. This is just one more place where graft exists to line the pockets of donors/supporters/whatever.
  • stop trying to correct this with the obvious suggestions to shell out $60. This is a good thing.
    • For this, yes. Not so much for the public information server, also out of space since it runs on an 80gig hard drive as well. If bureaucracy is your only protection, you are in trouble.
    • by bigpat ( 158134 )

      stop trying to correct this with the obvious suggestions to shell out $60. This is a good thing.

      Problem is when they get a new hard drive and the policy becomes "as long as we got the space"... the part about Windows XP should have been the red flag in the story. These records are very likely not well secured. Policies on record retention and archiving should reflect the risk that old systems can become compromised and only what is really needed should be kept online. Policies on record retention that merely reflect the physical limitations of hard drives are bad.

  • by tomknight ( 190939 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @08:15AM (#50394565) Journal

    So is this PC the *only* place the data's held? Really? So there's no backup, no analysis system, nothing like that?

    Is Oakland twinned with Keystone?

  • by Overzeetop ( 214511 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @08:16AM (#50394581) Journal

    It's a shame they don't live near a major technology hub. These little backwater towns just don't have the resources to lure competent IT staffers away from the cities where you have large computer-savvy people.

    Where did they say this was?

    • I wouldn't be surprised if it was the opposite. I live near a tech town. There is no way that the town that my residence is in can actually compete with the tech industries. It isn't like they can pick up the tech savy kid who doesn't want to leave but the only IT position is the crappy paying local government IT spot.
  • I might be completely out of touch here. But are 80GB drives still being sold? If so, is the price that prohibitive for Oakland?

    Don't care much for surveillance ad nauseam. But this seems to be a 3rd world problem. Which is worse? Or is the one perhaps causing the other?

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by dysmal ( 3361085 )

      Yes they're still being sold because we're still getting those in some Dell machines here. You can still buy 17-19" 4:3 monitors too even though wide screens are cheaper!

      Having worked with .gov agencies, the amount of bull shit that they need to go through to purchase ANYTHING some days is mind numbing. We had to:

      Buy from specific vendors who had a contract (so no amazon/newegg options)

      Only buy specific products (ex: GSA merchandise)

      Fill everything out in triplicate by hand and wait for signed approval (t

      • I'd laugh but at my office we still do testing on Windows XP systems with 40GB HD's because that's what they use out in the plants (we're finally phasing them out though). It's sad to see XP being used on a system where security should be of the utmost importance.

        Hell, I have a 300GB in my PS2 (yes 2, not 3)! Cost me about $30. While I understand having to go through vendors, it shouldn't cost more to upgrade the drive than it does to go through the hassle of revising the retention policy.
  • conservatives think that government is dangerous: the idiocy that manifests itself here in this humorously benign manner too often manifests itself in other, more evil forms.

    • by hey! ( 33014 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @08:43AM (#50394813) Homepage Journal

      Well, I agree government is dangerous -- so is anything that is powerful. Max Weber defined the state as the organization that has a monopoly on violence.

      But the blame isn't with the liberals, or the conservative libertarians, neither of whom want this kind of data collection. It's with the conservative authoritarians who want to expand the power of the police.

      • by Nutria ( 679911 )

        It's with the conservative authoritarians who want to expand the power of the police.

        There are damned few in power -- no matter their stripe -- that want to reduce their power. It's just a matter of where they focus their expansion of power. (Liberals naturally say, "but we know best, and that's why government -- with us at the head -- *needs* to expand". Besides, how many Democrats voted against the PATRIOT Act or to defund the NSA?)

      • by tnk1 ( 899206 )

        The blame goes to both liberals and conservatives who keep adding size and red tape to the government.

        Sure, conservatives want more cops and cop gear. The liberals get upset with cops and their solution is regulating the cops into the ground.

        The liberals or "progressives" want to create a whole new social experiment with health care or their plan for ending racism or something. They increase the government to do it. The conservatives oppose this. Their solution? More laws to complicate the implementation

    • conservatives think that government is dangerous:

      It is, to some people. For example, with more funding, the IRS could cut down on tax fraud and increase tax revenues by far more than the cost of employing the additional tax inspectors. Or the EPA could investigate more violations of and enforce environmental laws, etc, etc..

      That's at least part of the "conservative" pitch to reduce government: starve the executive branch of the resources it needs to actually enforce the law.

      • by Nutria ( 679911 )

        Don't forget: "cut taxes so that spending must be cut so we don't run deficits".

        That's "Delusional" cranked to 11.

  • This is why local governments should do less.

    But when they absolutely must do something to serve the public (and this is not one of those times), they should probably contract it out.

  • by bbsguru ( 586178 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @08:30AM (#50394699) Homepage Journal
    Seriously? This is a networked Windows XP computer storing data on the movements of private individuals until they run out of space...

    Forget the idiotic complaint about the horrors of a government purchasing process: who is responsible for the security of this "system"?
    If a real argument could be made for the need of this data, the system would have been quietly upgraded, and we would have even more information at risk.
    he lack of the upgrade is the best evidence that there is no compelling reason to keep this information at all.

    Six months? I guess I'm OK then, having not been through Oakland in the last six months. So what other municipalities are quietly using this same hopelessly lame system?

    • Who knows? Maybe they had the same problem getting an ethernet card for it.

    • Yup, they are complete idiots.

      Where the hell is their "backup procedure" ?? Don't they have one??

      Likewise their bureaucracy retarded. Buy 5x cheap 1 TB drives and Raid'em (either hardware or software), and if 1 or 2 go bad, you're STILL good to go.

      But no, let's overpay 10x for some magical "certification" when the reality is that there are only 3 hard drive manufacturers [buzzfeed.com] left in the world. [wikipedia.org]:

      * Seagate
      * Western Digital
      * Toshiba

      Everything else is rebranded, rebadged, or relabeled, not an OEM.

    • by bigpat ( 158134 )

      Seriously? This is a networked Windows XP computer storing data on the movements of private individuals until they run out of space...

      Yes: "Support for Windows XP ended April 8th, 2014" [microsoft.com]

    • Don't really have to worry about the security of the machine when, according to the article, they released the data set publicly.

  • Finally, some good comes from pain-in-the-ass government purchasing requirements!

  • "Whatever we put on the system, has to be certified. You don't just put anything."

    Certified, eh?

    I'd like to speak to the "certified" moron who chose to install a Windows XP desktop with an 80GB hard drive intended for collecting massive amounts of data.

    • This is government work. XP was probably the latest OS to make it through their 10-year IT software approval process.

      • by thsths ( 31372 )

        Indeed - and that makes the communist 5 year plan look positively agile by comparison...

    • It was probably re-purposed from their "Solitairy-confinement" monitoring system.

  • 7 bytes for the number. 8 bytes each for longitude and latitude, 4 bytes for the date. allow 3 bytes for indexing. So basically 30 bytes per record. That is enough storage space for over 2.5 billion license plates or 205 records per registered vehicle in California.
    • But you're forgetting the space taken up by the OS, anti-virus, MS Office trial (unactivated), various other pre-installed trial software, pinball and his stash of 'barely legal' porn.

    • It would only be enough for that quantity of license plates if the DB developers had minimizing the amount of data per record in mind.

      Also, there can be more info in each data entry, like the camera it came from, the velocity of the car, the time, and instead of longitude and latitude, each entry could have the name of the street or intersection, recorded as text, over and over again, as set up when the camera was installed.

      By the way, you were allocating all of the 80GB space for license plate data, b
    • by quetwo ( 1203948 )

      You are also assuming that they are only storing the license plate date. Chances are, they are storing lat/lon data, direction of travel, and more than likely, a picture of the scanned license plate. Also, the OS, software for the reader, DB software of some kind, etc. etc.

    • 8 bytes each for longitude and latitude

      More like "two bytes for camera ID number". You don't need to log lat/lon for each pic, when you know the lat/lon of the camera.

    • You would also want the state and country to capture out of state drivers. And also the expiry on the plates, if available.

  • Given that they could have gotten a bigger drive for $40 from NewEgg (either out of petty cash, or just taking up a collection), shows how much they really think the data is needed.

    Cops buy stuff out-of-pocket all the time to help out with their jobs; if they actually wanted more space for these logs, they would have gotten it, purchase-order or know.

    I think that the whole "teh bureaucracy is teh worst" excuse was just an angle to make purchasing easier general, not because they are really upset about not k

  • by tkrotchko ( 124118 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @08:46AM (#50394837) Homepage

    "You have to go to a source, i.e., HP or any reputable source where the city has a contract. And there's a purchase order that has to be submitted, and there has to be money in the budget"

    The poor guy is exhausted just thinking about it. He has my sympathy.

  • by sinij ( 911942 ) on Wednesday August 26, 2015 @09:00AM (#50394943)
    Government incompetence and the red tape partially mitigates government abuses. News at 11!
  • If you don't have a petty cash budget for these departments then you're idiots.

    That doesn't mean your petty cash budget doesn't get audited. It means you can draw the money NOW do what you need to do... and then worry about it later.

    What is more, I've personally bought things for my own organization out of my own money because I've felt confident that they'll reimburse me later.

    I've never had a problem with that. I explain to whomever later on "hey I bought this for that reason and it cost this... here is a

  • According to TFS, this program went back to 2010. And in all that time, nobody with a modicum of IT experience looked at the growth of the dat, calculated the estimated time to fill the disk and pot a new hard drive on the department budget?

    Oh yeah. Windows XP. Nobody thought to plan budget for an upgrade from an out of support system?

  • He acts like buying a $150 hard drive will break the bank and if its not "certified" it won't work in an XP box. Any standard hard drive you buy would work. And you can now get a 5TB drive for $130. That could store 2 decades worth of data or more. I would suspect they may very well be retiring user's desktops that have 250GB+ drives in them that they could get for free, are certified, and would work just fine.

    Like most people here, I don't think they need to keep this data forever, but just say that. Don't

  • Sgt. Dave Burke said, "We don't just buy stuff from Amazon as you suggested.

    But you should. Looking at the data provided by one of the largest consumers of hard drives, there is little or no difference between Consumer drives and Enterprise drives. The only thing you get with Enterprise is higher prices, used to offset warranty replacements. Replace your drives every 36 Months.

    https://www.backblaze.com/blog... [backblaze.com]

  • This right here is why the Police across the country are horribly ineffective.

    Sadly, they are more interested in revenue generating than actually stopping crime.

  • An invasive program has been brought to a screeching halt because the folks in charge of the program didn't know what they were doing.
    We should be throwing a ticker-tape parade, not giving them advice on how to get it rolling again.
  • At a certain point the large sum of data is so great that studying the data becomes next to impossible. Even with programs doing the searching and compiling a report for the end user so many reports may be generated that an agency drowns in the data. For example suppose you were hunting a serial killer and you wanted to run a search of all car owners within a ten block radius of the kill site. Then you do that with two other kill sites in which the killer seems likely to be the same. Then you fi

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