Blu-Ray Attacks Microsoft, Microsoft Bites Back 300
QT writes "Ars Technica has been following this week's next-gen DVD dramas closely. First, there's extensive coverage of the
reasons why Microsoft backed HD-DVD, which was primarily inspired by mandatory support for
copying discs to computers. The BDA, however, countered with an attack on Microsoft's reasons, and
Microsoft returned fire. Richard E. Doherty, Microsoft's head of the media entertainment technology convergence group, said that 50GB Blu-ray disc are in fact many years away. Is
MS playing games, or is Sony misrepresenting just how far along BD-ROM really is?" From the article: "HD DVD is proven to deliver 30GB capacity today, with the potential to deliver even greater capacity. The 50GB claim for BD-ROM discs is unproven and will not be available for many years to come, based on discussions with major Japanese and US replicators. Replicators not only do not have test lines running, they cannot even pre-order the equipment to begin evaluating this disc. They cannot judge the cost of these discs, or even whether they can be manufactured at all. Major replicators can mass manufacture 30GB HD DVD discs today and it's well understood that these discs will cost significantly less to manufacture than the lower-capacity 25GB BD discs."
We previously discussed this topic when the announcement came out.
Typical /. stupidity (Score:5, Informative)
Blu-ray is NOT Sony. Sony is just one of them [blu-raydisc.com].
Re:Given the history of Sony's formats (Score:2, Informative)
The most successful thing Sony ever did was XM, and now with ads it totally sucks balls. Just a matter of time until Sirius destroys it.
Re:Take that Sony (Score:3, Informative)
With regards to hype, I'm not sure if you've noticed but the hype machine for XBox360 has done everything aside of putting signs in orbit about the impending system's launch. Not to mention coming out and unveiling a product with all its specs, then turning around and offering 2 SKUs for it, clearly an attempt to get people to buy the most expensive one. By contrast, Sony's unveiling was an initial discussion of the system's specs for the developers, and some hardware demo reels showing off various elements of the system's performance. At least they didn't go to Rent-a-Hobbit to find someone to introduce the product.
Um, can we please stop this? (Score:2, Informative)
Blu-ray: 2005 Japan, 2006 North America (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It's painfully obvious... (Score:5, Informative)
BluRay drives have been around for a long time. They exist now.
What isn't finalised is the DRM and various things relating to that. It won't take too long to get these things finalised.
The 2 years to 50GB stuff is pure FUD as far as we, the consumers, are concerned. Have either of us held a HD-DVD or a BD-ROM in out hands? No. They're both up in the air. We should just sit back and wait for one or the other to release something. It isn't as if BluRay single-layer (23, 25 or 27GB) is that much lower than HD-DVD dual layer (30GB) anyway.
I know one BluRay manufacturer said they'd be making 50GB stuff this December.
Let's just wait and see what happens!
Re:Only reason MS is backing HD DVD (Score:2, Informative)
Fanboy alert!
Ok, let's look at this objectively (that might be hard for you). TFA says they're backing HD-DVD because it's producable NOW. Blu-Ray is really expensive and they haven't hit the expected storage. Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will play HD content fine. Difference is in DRM and backwards compatiblity. Considering the bitrate at 1080 is 25 Mbs, it allows for 20 HOURS of content on a 30GB HD-DVD producable TODAY. Even with special features/audio/whatever, there's more than enough space there. I fail to see an advantage of Blu-Ray over HD-DVD considering the restrictions on it.
Content will not "look better" on Blu-Ray than HD-DVD. It'll look the same.
XBox360 will be $300 bare. It will also be a nextgen DVD player (as HD-DVD is also nextgen). They're saving nothing on buying the $500 wannabe PC replacement. All the things Sony wants it to do (word processing/whatever) have been tried before, and they failed. They'll fail again. People won't be able to get their documents off to print them/whatever. That's a whole different rant.
Not sure if you're a Sony fanboy or an MS hater. Either way you've not considered it very well.
PR FUD (Score:5, Informative)
As far as costs are concerned, they only talk of manufactering costs which tend to stabilize over time. Certainly, initially, Blu-ray should cost a lot more than HD-DVD if it needs retooling, however once econmies of scale are established manufactering cost tend to plateau, hence while this is short term concern, but perhaps not a long-term one. What isn't talked about however is liceencing cost, the main issue in contention that caused the split was that currently you have to pay the 6C ~4%-10% of the sale price of DVD hardware(depending on the cost of the machine), something that HD-DVD retains, I'm not sure how either format fares but ultimely this will be a massive cost when initial players are expected to cost $500-$1,000(maybe much more than manufactering differences).
Engadget has a great article on this:
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000623059130/ [engadget.com]
Also, the argument "Support for hybrid discs" is ridiculous. HD-DVD use "flippers" as hybrid disks. i.e. DVD on one-side and HD-DVD on the other (kinda like the old DVDs that had "widescreen" & "fullscreen"). JVC, has developed a Blu-ray disk that is a true hybrid, having a DL-DVD9 and a Blu-ray on one side.
http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/186/4 [cdfreaks.com]
However, while MS/Intel are big names it seems irrelevant being that they don't actually have any products to market (and XB360 won't have HD-DVD standard; not even an option at this point, maybe a $500 system to fit above their "core" and "Premium" bundles). Only other impact that the deal seems to have is Media Center PCs, but 71% of MediaCenter PCs don't even come with a TV-tuners (which kinda makes the most important feature useless). Windows support can easily be cured w/drivers, and Dell and HP are Blu-ray supporters hence windows PCs from them will likely come with Blu-Ray. Seems to be more a PR-deal. Ultimetely it will be the Studios that decide the winner, and they will at the end choose the format that the consumers are buying.
http://www.mediacenterpcworld.com/news/502 [mediacenterpcworld.com]
Re:Know one of the real reasons? (Score:3, Informative)
But really.. what difference does it make? Microsoft supporting it won't do jack to change the adoption of the format vs. BluRay. It's not like they're going to be putting software on HD-DVD anytime soon (they're only just now moving Windows to DVD releases). And it's not like OS support is required or they can somehow lockout BluRay from being used in Windows (there have been pics of Nero Burning ROM utilizing a BluRay drive under Windows for almost a year now).
Re:HD-DVD is now delayed to near blu-ray launch (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Let's just ask Hugh Hefner (Score:3, Informative)
Err, Blu-Ray is not only already here, but in Japan you could have bought a blu-ray set-top burner (for a few thousand dollars, of course) years ago. Of course, it used its own proprietary format and not the standardized HD format that was recently created, but the technology for creating discs and the drives that read them is very old news, far from "unproven".
In this case, it's just Microsoft exploiting the fact that America is a technological backwater compared to the rest of the developed world to push a solution that benefits it.
Re:30 GB or 15 GB? (Score:3, Informative)
Both support key revocation (Score:4, Informative)
As for the RUMOR that you'll have to have a network connection for a player - nothing but bull. No company is going to REQUIRE a network connection for consumer electronics.
Re:It's painfully obvious... (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, held blu-ray in hand from shipping product (Score:1, Informative)
Re:HD-DVD is now delayed to near blu-ray launch (Score:3, Informative)
Re:sure (Score:2, Informative)
Microsoft is trying to act like BluRay hasn't existed for the last year or so in Japan (where devices are already available that utilize cartridge media). Microsoft is hoping beyond hope that nobody has heard of Pioneer's BDR-101A BluRay burner for PC's (which works with a BluRay capable edition of Nero Burning ROM that's been known about for at least 9 months).
Meanwhile in the HD-DVD camp, they've yet to show any hardware or software support (do not confuse this with what amounts to a paper launch: just because they say X is supporting them or Y will have support in version Z doesn't mean crap until they deliver. BluRay, OTOH, has been delivering). It'd be great if Microsoft would actually put up or shut up on this...
It just looks really stupid to be saying "oh yeah, well their media doesn't even exist!".
Porn in HD-DVD already available (Score:1, Informative)
Link below for the official news release
http://www.digitalplayground.com/news.php?newsid=