Ford EV Owners Can Now Charge On Tesla's Network (apnews.com) 65
Starting today, Ford electric vehicle owners can use one of Tesla's 2,400+ superchargers, but there's a hitch. "They'll need to get an adapter that Ford will provide for free, although the company won't start shipping those until the end of March," notes the Associated Press. Product Reviewer MKBHD also notes that non-Teslas will need to park in a spot that blocks 2 spots where a Tesla would take up one. "If the charge station fills up the remaining spots with Teslas, the app will show 1 charger as available but the parking spot is blocked by the Mach-E," adds MKBHD. From the report: Last May, Ford became the first automaker to reach an agreement with the Austin, Texas-based Tesla to charge on its network, which is the largest and most well-placed in the U.S. Tesla has more than 26,000 plugs and nearly 2,400 Supercharger stations across the U.S. and Canada. Ford said its owners will have access to about 15,000 Tesla fast-charging plugs that are located strategically along travel corridors. Ford owners won't be able to use some older Tesla plugs.
Most other automakers followed Ford in joining Tesla's network and agreeing to switch to Tesla's plug, called the North American Charging Standard, which is smaller and easier to use than the current plugs on most other EVs sold in the two countries. Ford said adding the Tesla plugs will double the size of the network that can be used by Ford EV owners. There are nearly 166,000 Ford EVs in the U.S.
Ford is offering the adapters for free to the owners, who can sign up on the Ford.com website to reserve them between Thursday and June 30. The company will provide one free adapter per vehicle. Tesla's network was turned on Wednesday morning, and software enabling the Ford vehicles to charge at Tesla stations was to be sent out around the same time. Ford will switch to Tesla's charging connector with its second-generation EVs starting next year.
Most other automakers followed Ford in joining Tesla's network and agreeing to switch to Tesla's plug, called the North American Charging Standard, which is smaller and easier to use than the current plugs on most other EVs sold in the two countries. Ford said adding the Tesla plugs will double the size of the network that can be used by Ford EV owners. There are nearly 166,000 Ford EVs in the U.S.
Ford is offering the adapters for free to the owners, who can sign up on the Ford.com website to reserve them between Thursday and June 30. The company will provide one free adapter per vehicle. Tesla's network was turned on Wednesday morning, and software enabling the Ford vehicles to charge at Tesla stations was to be sent out around the same time. Ford will switch to Tesla's charging connector with its second-generation EVs starting next year.
Seems like this is a simple software fix (Score:3)
Seems like the erroneous stall count is a simple software fix. If you know the model of the car, you know which side the charging port is on, so unless the vehicle is using the end stall, count it as using two stalls.
Re:Seems like this is a simple software fix (Score:4, Interesting)
I think rather than a software fix, they'd MUCH prefer to update all the stations to longer cables so that they don't lose so much capacity. Obviously in order of utilization rates, descending.
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One of the advantages of forcing Tesla to switch to CCS to Europe is that by the time they opened up their chargers, they already had longer cables.
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Because Tesla rates are more reasonable than the Nissan price I have moved from charging at Ionity to the Tesla Superchargers, it works well.
In The Netherlands and Denmark I found the chargers I used only had CCS type plugs on their short cables, in Germany there are two cables, one with the CCS, the other with the Tesla plug.
And all are with the short cables.
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Tesla plugs in Europe are only still around for old Model S/X. Eventually they'll go away as they're an anachronism now.
I don't like that we're all forced to use the stupid design-by-committee CCS Combo frankenconnector here in Europe. But it is what it is. And at least all sides are finally standardizing on something.
My only hope for the future of connectors in Europe is that at some point they'll want a higher power connector for larger vehicles (but smaller than MCS), and hopefully that won't be some
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Re: Seems like this is a simple software fix (Score:2)
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I should have clarified that they are longer than the old Telsa only ones. Not by a huge amount - you still have to park with the port on the charger end of the space.
The front is the correct place for the charging port, and it's a shame more manufacturers don't put it there. Side ports are stupid.
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I think rather than a software fix, they'd MUCH prefer to update all the stations to longer cables so that they don't lose so much capacity. Obviously in order of utilization rates, descending.
Also, if the Supercharger configuration leaves a usable parking spot to the right of the rightmost stall, a Ford could park there and only effectively use one stall. In addition, if there are multiple Fords and they all group to the right, n Fords will only consume n+1 stalls. So as long as the Ford owners are willing to be a little considerate (or if Tesla is willing to enforce it with software), wasted capacity should be minimal.
Having had a Model 3 (Score:1)
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hydrogen cell fuel
If we ever get to cheap and abundant hydrogen fuel then I doubt we'd spoil that simplicity with adoption of fuel cells. Hydrogen burns, it burns very well, so we'd likely just burn the fuel in some kind of internal combustion engine. I realize that burning hydrogen in a heat engine likely comes with a loss in thermodynamic efficiency but there's more to the issue than that. Fuel cells are expensive to produce and maintain, we'd likely come out ahead on total costs if we just burn the hydrogen than try fu
Re:Having had a Model 3 (Score:5, Informative)
Don't leave out the fact that not only does hydrogen leak, but leaked hydrogen destroys ozone and has a global warming potential between that of CO2 and methane. ;) Or the fact that a hydrogen fuel system uses about 3x as much energy (and FAR more capital, aka cost to the user) than a battery one per unit distance driven. Or the fact that (unlike hydrocarbons) hydrogen can burn in almost any fuel-air mixture, ignites with 1/10th the energy of gasoline fumes (including from static sparks; common electronics also aren't rated to suppress such tiny amounts of sparking), and readily undergoes deflagration-to-detonation transitions. When the Kjørbo hydrogen station (one of only... I think just three, if I remember right) in Norway at the time, suffered a minor leak, leading to an explosion that despite only involving a mere 1,5-3kg [mozees.no] (of the ~200kg in the tank at this quite small hydrogen station):
* Was felt and heard for miles away
* A car passing on a highway 50 meters away had its occupants injured by airbags because the explosion was so powerful it triggered their car's crash sensors
* Glass was blown out of the windows at an office building 65m away.
Some people try to defend it with, "But it'll rise and escape". But of course, first off that doesn't help when you're dealing with such high pressures, because your ignition is likely to happen at the time of a sudden incidental release. And even with slower leaks, hydrogen burns in ratios with air as low as 4% and pools under overhangs and in tunnels. NASA safety handling guidelines [nasa.gov] for hydrogen call for buildings with blow-off roofs and mandate that hydrogen pipelines be above other pipelines, because leaks from hydrogen pipelines can enter pipelines above them, follow them to traps, and then pool there.
Liquid hydrogen is even worse.
You don't even gain from the nominal high energy density of hydrogen because your tankage mass of compressed hydrogen mass is way more than that of the fuel. And even if you're talking airplanes and liquid hydrogen, not only is the tankage still significant, but the volume is so high (density similar to that of say a foam rubber pool toy - 0,07g/cm3) that you ruin your drag.
Hydrogen is just AWFUL as a fuel. It has no business being used as a fuel. If you're going to demand that people stick with fuels for some reason but want them to be renewable, stick a renewable carbon or two on that hydrogen.
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It’s so obviously a terrible idea. Also worth noting that H2 fuel cells are incredibly finicky. My wife had responsibility for a huge one in a major office block in London a few years ago, and it was forever breaking down. It was a total gimmick (done before her time) and she decarbonised the rest of the.real estate portfolio by switching to 100% renewable electricity, heat pumps, rooftop solar, energy efficiency measures such as LEDs, and a small amount of green gas. All of those were much better inv
Re: Having had a Model 3 (Score:2)
Most of the energy used to drive at speed is to overcome air resistance. That does not change for a heavier car.
Rolling resistance does increase a bit. And accelerating costs more energy, but that can be used to charge the battery again when slowing down.
So, not so inefficient.
What is really inefficient is the internal combustion engine in traditional cars. It outputs mostly heat, plus also a bit of mechanical energy. Oh, and producing, storing, transporting and using hydrogen fuel is also quite inefficient
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Not to mention that even when it came out, a Model 3 (which, unlike the GP - and according to customer satisfaction / repeat purchase surveys, which Tesla always tops, like most users - I love mine) was basically the same weight as its performance- and class competitors in the BMW 3-series, with a full tank of petrol.
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EV sales are doing great, and will continue to do great. Up 35% yoy
https://www.ev-volumes.com/ [ev-volumes.com]
Re:Having had a Model 3 (Score:5, Informative)
US EV sales in 2022 were 5,9% of the total.
In 2023 they were 7,6%.
In Q4 2023 they were 8,1%.
In my country they're ~50%. In Norway, were 83% last year, now ~90%.
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Furious Tesla owners (Score:1)
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It would be funny if Tesla was driven out of the car-making business but remained known as the premium recharging network. (I'm not predicting that, although the Cybertruck has reverted my confidence in Tesla to 2017 levels).
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Re:Furious Tesla owners (Score:4, Interesting)
I thought Ford vehicles could already use Tesla chargers, a possibility once Tesla started installing CCS adapters at charging stations and created some kind of smart phone app to provide an interface. The app was needed because normally the charger interface was the Tesla in-dash infotainment system, presumably with the Tesla adapter and app then any EV (including Ford) with CCS could charge. What changed?
I recall one problem with broken EV chargers was people cutting off the charger cable for the copper inside. This is a problem that was solved in some locations by requiring users to bring their own charger cable. The charger would have an output port just like the input port on the vehicle, and users would need a cable with a matching connector on both ends. It sounds a lot like a vehicle-to-vehicle charging cable before V2V was a thing. This isn't really a thing in the USA but it might come here if abuse and vandalism isn't tamed by other means. The V2V feature, and the double-ended cables needed to make it work, could speed adoption of bring-your-own-cable chargers.
If Tesla charging stations get crowded because of this change then that opens up opportunities for competitors. An opportunity not really available before since Tesla kept tight control on the power connector. With the Tesla power port being adopted as NACS then that means charging station operators don't need permission from Tesla to compete with them, which I guess kind of existed before because of the ease to get CCS adapters for Tesla vehicles but is still a lower bar to clear since there's no adapter needed and compatibility is assured.
Things might suck for Tesla owners for a while but I believe this is better for them long term. With charging stations being split among different standards and manufacturers that was likely slowing adoption. It's not like I expect EVs to replace the internal combustion competition any time soon, it's that there's one fewer reason for people to avoid getting an EV.
I believe the debate on electricity vs. gasoline will end up with wide adoption of the plug-in electric hybrid. I know there's people that believe the PHEV to be the worst of both worlds but I expect the convenience of charging at home with the fast fill-up of gasoline on the road could make the PHEV so popular that the ICEV as we know it will disappear. What would help in getting people to consider electric vehicles is allowing people to pay for electricity at an EV charger just like how people pay for gasoline. That means having a common credit card reader at the charger point, and an attendant of some sort to take payment by cash. If people have to stop to think about which app they need to use for a recharge then they may just drive on by. Tesla may be the worst offender on this if they need to have some agreement with Ford in place to allow Ford vehicles to charge at Tesla chargers.
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As far as I know, Tesla never actually "kept tight control" of their power connector. Yes, they developed it, but they quickly released it's specifications for public use.
As for charge standards, the electronic stuff for Teslas is CCS other than the connector, so it's pretty easy, and again, open standard.
People are likely willing to accept a minor amount of hassle (like downloading an app) for Tesla chargers, because currently they're the largest, most powerful, and reliable network in the USA.
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As far as I know, Tesla never actually "kept tight control" of their power connector. Yes, they developed it, but they quickly released it's specifications for public use.
As for charge standards, the electronic stuff for Teslas is CCS other than the connector, so it's pretty easy, and again, open standard.
Not exactly. They offered it with terms of a do-not-sue patent package. Pretty much everyone else considered that a poison pill. There were a couple of ways around that, including picking up a phone, but nobody ever took them up on it. It seemed like they'd lost the battle to become the only standard in north america (meaning, everyone else especially the government was building out J-1772) and Telsa released it as NACS, seemingly a year or two too late. At the time it seemed like a desperation move, but ap
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I figure you also had an EV sale freezing effect from the announcing of switching to NACS by everybody. Would you want to buy a current EV from one of the other companies now, or wait until they put the NACS connector in so you don't have to use an adapter?
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Which have a much higher failure rate and aren't installed anywhere near as densely as Tesla chargers.
It might not be a "big deal", but then, often, waiting a few months to get a better product isn't a big deal either.
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Tesla initially used a proprietary CANBUS protocol for their connector and chargers. When the US government announced subsidies for chargers compatible with multiple manufacturer's cars, Tesla switched to using the CCS protocol and opened the NACS standard to other manufacturers.
Basically they kept it to themselves, until it became apparent that it was more profitable to get the government subsidies for things they were probably going to build anyway.
As for the chargers, while NACS is electrically compatibl
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You think talking to a person is less hassle than using an app. Have you met anyone below 50?
I believe using a credit/debit card, or some kind of NFC payment system, is less hassle than using an app. If there's some failure in the electronic payment then talking to someone is better than being stranded somewhere until the network is restored. It's rare that cash won't get me what I need.
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The easiest way to pay for charging is tap-and-pay, whether it's a contactless credit card or Apple Pay. There's so little friction, it's really on a par with plug-and-go
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There is another option, plug and pay, you plug in and when the car is recognised as having an account the charging starts.
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Never heard of anyone stealing a DC charger cable for the copper. There isn't all that much in there, and the chargers tend to be in places with CCTV.
People will never bring their own DC charging cables. At higher charging speeds they need to either be water cooled or the high speed charging limited by thermal considerations, i.e. 400kW for 5 minutes and then it drops off. Such cables need additional conductors for temperature sensors, at the very least.
For AC charging it's the norm to bring your own cable,
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I thought Ford vehicles could already use Tesla chargers, a possibility once Tesla started installing CCS adapters at charging stations and created some kind of smart phone app to provide an interface.
They created a few dozen 'magic dock' charging locations that had the CCS adapter built into the charger. But I believe this was just for testing purposes. I actually have already charged my Mach-E at one of these.
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What is needed is to change those horrible EV charging subsidies that the Dems continue to throw at losing charging companies. EA is just VW's way of stealing from America.
Not until June for me (Score:2)
Ford's website indicated that I should receive my adapter in June, so the headline is wrong. In fact, it's wrong for most Mach E owners.
In any case, I expect I should have my 2024 before I receive my adapter.
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I wish that Tesla would change just a few of these charger to magic doc, but esp the end chargers.
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Magic Dock was always intended as just a temporary solution. The solution is vehicles natively supporting NACS.
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Not quite (Score:2)
Product Reviewer MKBHD also notes that non-Teslas will need to park in a spot that blocks 2 spots where a Tesla would take up one.
MQ gets it right that a number of these companies choose to put ports in some of the stupidest places, but, I believe that most, if not all, of these are capable of going to the end charger that is normally not on the end, but on the side.
However, by the look of the adapter, I am guessing that it is just magic dock adopted for Ford and others. I wonder if 1 Meter of the 120KW cable that we use on the V1 charger could be used between the connectors? 1M is more than enough to handle the poorly placed ports
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Are you talking about extending the cable? It doesn't work like that, the current rating for a cable drops with increasing length.
And let's forget outright about liquid-cooled cables.
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IOW, the V1 cable, which is NOT liquid cooled, would not work for this. Nice thing is that nearly all sites still have V1s available as well as V2/V3/V4 (at least the ones I have seen). As such, these will be limited to a subset of the chargers.
Well, geez gas vehicles can go anywhere (Score:1)
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You sure the fuel he was referring to wasn't for him?
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He was a teetotaller.
Re:Well, geez EVs can go anywhere (Score:2)
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Let me correct that (Score:2)
all dressed, nowhere to go (Score:2)
Around here (outer suburb norcal) I've noticed an enormous new profusion of Tesla charging stations which are 99-100% free of users whenever I pass by.
Tesla put the charging port on the wrong side (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure this will be controversial but I still think Tesla put the charging port on the wrong side.
If they had put it on the passenger side, it would have allowed easy, safe, curbside charging in cities. By putting it on the driver's side, there is no way you can park your car on the street and plug it in without stretching the cable around the car and having it hang out into the street. There's no reason it had to be on the driver's side so I just don't understand why they chose to put it there when the other side offers a bunch of benefits.
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Disagree. Allow parking on whatever side you want on the street like some (all?) EU countries, I like jumping out of the car and plugging in 5 seconds. There is no butter place for it.