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Power Transportation

Do Electric Vehicles Fail at a Lower Rate Than Gas Cars In Extreme Cold? (electrek.co) 216

Posted by EditorDavid from the cold-truth dept.
In a country experiencing extreme cold — and where almost 1 in 4 cars are electric — a roadside assistance company says it's still gas-powered cars that are experiencing the vast majority of problems starting.

Electrek argues that while extreme cold may affect chargers, "it mainly gets attention because it's a new technology and it fails for different reasons than gasoline vehicles in the cold." Viking, a road assistance company (think AAA), says that it responded to 34,000 assistance requests in the first 9 days of the year. Viking says that only 13% of the cases were coming from electric vehicles (via TV2 — translated from Norwegian) ["13 percent of the cases with starting difficulties are electric cars, while the remaining 87 percent are fossil cars..."]

To be fair, this data doesn't adjust for the age of the vehicles. Older gas-powered cars fail at a higher rate than the new ones and electric vehicles are obviously much more recent on average.
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader Geoffrey.landis for sharing the article.
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Do Electric Vehicles Fail at a Lower Rate Than Gas Cars In Extreme Cold? More

Do Electric Vehicles Fail at a Lower Rate Than Gas Cars In Extreme Cold?

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  • Statistics (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dbialac ( 320955 ) on Saturday January 20, 2024 @09:49PM (#64176001)
    Is that a function of a direct comparison or are electric vehicles used less because of known issues with electric vehicles in cold weather? As always, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

    • Hmm. That's possible, yes, but it would require that a statistically significant number of people A. have both ICE and electric powered vehicles, B. chose to use the ICE over the electric, and C. had the ICE fail to the point where they had to call for assistance to get it recorded.

      I think that a more likely explanation is that EVs with LiFePo4 batteries (which includes some Tesla models) don't "hard fail" in cold weather until you're down to about -20C/-4F. They lose performance below 0C/32F, but there isn

      • Re:Statistics (Score:4, Informative)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 ) <slashdot&worf,net> on Saturday January 20, 2024 @11:46PM (#64176171)

        Generally speaking, the problems with ICE vehicles in the cold are battery related - almost always the engine failing to start because the battery is unable to supply the current necessary to crank the engine.

        The other issue is if the charging system is unable to keep up with the load - the headlights, the heaters, the climate control all demand lots of power and if the charging system is unable to keep up with the load, it means the battery might not be fully charged at the end of short trips. And if you do a ton of short trips, your battery might end the day with an insufficient charge to start it from cold the next day.

        An EV battery's load is much lighter - it needs to be able to run all the ECUs and infotainment systems for the short period of time until the high voltage contactor kicks in and the DC-DC converter starts supplying the 12V.

        It's a huge problems - trucks that drive in the cold almost never get shut off because once the engine stops and cools down, it may be impossible to start them.

        In general, ICE vehicles which have small engines are probably the ones easiest to start - there's only so small a battery you can have, and a tiny 4 banger has way lower starting current even cold than a massive 6 liter V8 diesel.

      • Stuff like this makes a good argument for series hybrids. If you have a large EV battery, it will have enough cold cranking amps to turn over a relatively small generator motor, even at -40 or lower temperatures, assuming the battery has chemistry that allows for safe discharging. For a gasoline engine at low temperatures, turning it over may not be that big an issue. A diesel would need to warm up glow plugs and possibly the block before it got firing. However, once the ICE engine is up and running, th

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by garyisabusyguy ( 732330 )

      Or, it could be they stories against EVs come from petrol companies and ICE car manufacturers spewing lies and propaganda, which they have done for decades lying about global warming after their own scientists identified the issue [scientificamerican.com]

      Of course they would rather that the electric vehicle companies did not present factual arguments against their lies and hyperbole, so we get posts like yours trying to interject FUD

    • Itâ(TM)s a function of electric cars being newer and electric cars being charged.

      Most starting problems in the cold are battery-maintenance related and then it is a $50-100 to get a new battery and youâ(TM)re good for 3-5 years or so. In Europe you also have diesel in passenger cars, which congeals in the cold so the number of calls is likely compounded by that.

      There are fewer electric cars being on the road, the percentage of electric cars in Norway is about 20%, having them refusing to start in

      • EVs rarely "fail" in cold weather.

        The problem is they have reduced range in severe cold.

        • All cars have reduced range in severe cold, including ICE cars.

          The reason there's been so much focus around EV's and their range is that the EV's where in their infancy, meaning most people know EV's with a range of 100-200 Miles because that's what been sold the last 15 years if we don't count Teslas.

          And another thing, the average car usage (at least in Europe) is 30 miles per day, and this is not an issue in winter, not even for the crappiest EV with the smallest range.

          I also have an EV with the crappy ra

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by shilly ( 142940 )

            The average distance driven in the UK is closer to 20 miles per day; 30 miles per day is the US average. i'd be surprised if EU average was more like the US than the UK.

            Most EVs have been sold in the last three years; the area under the curve is much larger for that than all the EVs sold previously, just because the growth has been so rapid. So I think the average summer range for an EV, even excluding Tesla, is more like 250 miles. My Zoe is four years old and it has that range. For each i3 with 120 miles,

          • Its not only because evs are in their infancy. Its the fact that if your ev dies unexpectedly you need a full tow and you are likely to miss your target wherever you were going, if you were trying to make a flight than you have missed it. With an ice you have a pretty good chance of finding someone with some gas that can get you to the next gas station and after a 10 minute fill you are on your way again.

    • Is that a function of a direct comparison or are electric vehicles used less because of known issues with electric vehicles in cold weather? As always, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

      I'm going to guess no.

      In the extreme cold people drive because they need to go somewhere, at that point you go out to see if the vehicle starts and if it does, you're great, if not, you're staying home (or calling roadside assistance).

      The only time people are not driving the EV because it's cold is when they have two cars. But in that case if it doesn't start then they don't call roadside assistance (unless they're already out), they just take the other car.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Ksevio ( 865461 )

        Seems unlikely someone would NOT drive an EV due to the weather unless they had some very specific circumstances where they have an ICE vehicle and they need to drive a distance near the max range of their EV. Statistically that's probably not going to be a very large group

  • You have a very different issue with an electric car. For a gas car in the cold, if the battery dies, you can jump the vehicle and the vehicle will run.

    You can't do that with an electric car. You have to get the batteries up to temp before working which may take a while if you can manage it that day. It is still an inconvenience for the gas vehicle, but you can leave with a few minutes of finding a jump or a starter.

    The electric vehicle is much more of an inconvenience and potentially more fatal. Temps that

    • Re:That is NOT the reason people are paying attent (Score:5, Interesting)

      by MacMann ( 7518492 ) on Saturday January 20, 2024 @10:50PM (#64176087)

      The hazards of being left on the side of a road with a dead battery in your EV isn't near the threat it used to be.

      First is V2V technology, or vehicle-to-vehicle. Most any newer car with NACS or CCS connections can provide power output from their battery to another vehicle to give a kind of "jumpstart" to add a few miles so the car can drive to a filling station or something to get help, or maybe a hotel to have a safe place to stay for a bit.

      If no that then most EVs have a portable charge cable of some sort, one that can plug into a common 120VAC outlet often seen in vehicles for a "trickle charge". Most cars have a 120VAC outlet somewhere that can provide some power. A bit of a charge from this can get the EV to drive someplace safe. If the batteries are reasonably charged but just cold then maybe just a little time with a warm up will get the car moving well enough.

      With this in mind people that take long drives in a BEV should have one or two common portable recharge cables on hand for just these situations. If your car has NACS then a NACS-to-NACs cable for V2V charging is a good idea. Maybe have a NACS to CCS adapter for the oddball cars and chargers. Have the 120VAC charger cord for charging at someone's home or motel, or even on the side of the road from a passerby. If taking the car camping then a cable or adapter for the common camper outlets is best. The common ones are TT-30, NEMA 14-30, and NEMA 14-50.

      I have heard of people towing their car to recharge but this is not recommended by any manufacturer. BUT, just know that it has been tried and works, just use at your own risk.

      • The examples I gave, in case it wasn't clear enough, was of an EV not starting because the batteries were too cold, not that you ran out of energy. You will damage your EV if you try to charge the batteries when they are out of their safe zone, if the car doesn't have built in protection.

        Now, are you saying you can run the heater from the other car to heat up the batteries? How long will that take? Even if you just have to raise the temp by 10 degrees, you aren't doing that in 10 mins.

      • Re:That is NOT the reason people are paying attent (Score:5, Informative)

        by Entrope ( 68843 ) on Sunday January 21, 2024 @08:17AM (#64176669) Homepage

        Most cars have a 120VAC outlet somewhere that can provide some power.

        Do they? I drive a 2018 Acura MDX, and my wife drives a 2022 Honda Accord, both hybrids. Neither has a 120VAC outlet (some MDXes do). Based on a quick web search, the cars that have outlets are (a) mostly pickups and minivans and (b) often rated for 100W or 150W max supply. You'll be waiting a long time to charge an EV for even a few miles of travel at 150W. Some pickup trucks have heavy-duty outlets (up to 2400W), but they're the exception.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Nabeel_co ( 1045054 )

      Right, and this is totally ignoring the fact that you can (and I have) many times bump start a gas car with a dead battery to get it going again. You can't do that with an electric car.

      I love EVs. I think, over all, they are the superior car technology, but the amount of bold face lying the EV industry does makes me want nothing to do with them. They are a great option, but not a perfect one, and everyone who says otherwise is either delusional or lying.

  • My EV wouldn't start this week, so I tried emptying two cans of ether into its frunk.

    Didn't help one bit, and I still feel a little woozy.

  • The article says "13 percent of the cases with starting difficulties are electric cars". What is that supposed to mean? How do you "start" an EV?

    • If I'm trying to shove an EV into the same list as ICE engine cars...

      I'd guess "starting difficulty" would be "was able to get into the car, but not get it to move".

      Other options would be "can't get the doors open because of ice", flats, and such.

      So if you get into the car and it goes "It's going to be 30 minutes before I get the battery up to operating temperature before you can move", that's a failure to start.

      Which Norway has apparently addressed at least partially by having better education - with 25% p

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Calydor ( 739835 )

      If I pick up a flashlight and click the button but no light comes from it because the battery is dead I'm going to call that "Failure to turn the flashlight on" even though I could click the button.

      Same for an EV. If the car refuses to do what cars usually do when in use, such as moving around on the roads, that is a failure to start.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      EVs have a 12V battery that runs, among other things, the drivetrain control system. That 12V battery is similar to the one in an ICE, but smaller as it doesn't have to crank an engine.

      In very cold weather it can suffer from more rapid discharge and low voltage, preventing the car from being turned on. Newer EVs do a better job at keeping it topped up, e.g. charging voltage needs to be higher in cold temperatures.

    • 'How do you "start" an EV?'

      An electric motor does not idle. When you intentionally want the motor to not rotate it draws no power. However, there is a failure mode when you apply power but it stalls instead of rotating due to insufficient torque for the load. This is a "failure to start" for an electric motor.

  • statistics being used to hide nuance (Score:5, Interesting)

    by silvergig ( 7651900 ) on Saturday January 20, 2024 @10:11PM (#64176031)
    If you're not comparing similar ages and mileages, this statistic is worthless. Starting batteries in a combustion car have a finite life of about 4-7 years, and are expected to be replaced. They usually fail under a temperature extreme, hot or cold, and are considered a consumable or wear part, and was the most likely failure point in nearly every case for combustion cars. Comparing a vehicle with a 7-year old battery that is a wear part with a newer EV is intellectually dishonest, which is what happened here.

    But even further, TFA leaves out what even failed on the combustion car, so it's all guessing anyway, which means that the article is horseshit because it gave no real information, other than 'gas cars suck, EVs are better'. Not surprising....the article source is heavily biased.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by taustin ( 171655 )

      If you're not comparing similar ages and mileages, this statistic is worthless.

      I disagree. Mostly, I disagree that it is a statistic. What it is, is propaganda, and as such, it is far from worthless. It will sell EVs to gullible people with too much money, which is the intent.

    • If you're not comparing similar ages and mileages, this statistic is worthless. Starting batteries in a combustion car have a finite life of about 4-7 years, and are expected to be replaced. They usually fail under a temperature extreme, hot or cold, and are considered a consumable or wear part, and was the most likely failure point in nearly every case for combustion cars. Comparing a vehicle with a 7-year old battery that is a wear part with a newer EV is intellectually dishonest, which is what happened here. But even further, TFA leaves out what even failed on the combustion car, so it's all guessing anyway, which means that the article is horseshit because it gave no real information, other than 'gas cars suck, EVs are better'. Not surprising....the article source is heavily biased.

      Compares ICE to EVs in roadside repair claims but fails to state the percentage of EVs on the road vs ICE, while also claiming that “starting” is the real problem with EVs in cold while not saying a fucking word about EV range. Article isn’t biased. It’s pure clickbait bullshit.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I've been wondering about this, because there's an old ICE in my family that is now 15 years old and doesn't get much use. It's on the original battery.

      It is a Mitsubishi with Stop & Go feature. The Stop & Go thing hasn't worked for at least 5 years, but it starts every time without fail.

      Maybe we are just incredibly lucky, or maybe they aren't making batteries as robust as they could. I do wonder if this one was extra high spec to make sure it didn't fail due to being used more often for Stop &

      • Batteries that are used for 'Start/Stop', (likely same/similar feature), do have larger batteries fitted, to deal with the increased use of the battery. Cars that are not driven as often may have longer life for the starter battery, (assuming, the battery is not being drained while the car is parked, some vehicles have enough parasitic draw to drain the battery in less than a month). Some brands of batteries do last longer - the average I quoted is just that, an average. But at 15 years, I consider that

    • Side observation: I notice that a) it seems that modern cars with lots of gadgets and gewgaws like heated seats and steering wheels seem to designed to much tighter electrical budgets than older cars that pretty much only had the lights and the radio as ancillary devices, and EU cars even moreso than American/Japanese ones, and b) (maybe because of a, maybe because of corporate parsimony) modern car batteries are SHIT and wear out in 3-5 years vs previously 10 easily.

      I live in MN, a rather cold climate plac

  • Old Starter Batteries (Score:5, Informative)

    by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Saturday January 20, 2024 @10:14PM (#64176033) Homepage Journal

    Old starter batteries don't produce enough current in the cold. Part of maintenance is replacing your battery every few years. And of course every product will have a few manufacturing defects.

    So poorly maintained or faulty gas cars had trouble starting from the cold.

    Properly-maintained and non-defective electric cars have trouble charging in the cold and thus get stranded.

    AIUI charging a cold Li+ battery will cause rapid degradation and so electric cars have heaters to prewarm the batteries. The charger is smart enough to not charge cold batteries.

    Two failure modes are common: first, there is not enough charge left for the car to prewarm the batteries; second, the charger can provide such power but if it's Chicago-cold and windy, the warmers are not powerful enough to overcome the environmental heat loss. Three hours later and the charge hasn't started.

    The 'solution' is towing the vehicle to a Tesla service center to warm up in the garage and then get a full rapid charge.

    Probably any heated garage that a tow truck can slide a car into is fine but they are quite heavy to push by hand.

    This is info I heard from a nerd who was stranded in Chicago this past week.

    • Part of maintenance is replacing your battery every few years.

      Funny thing, for my current car, I replaced my first battery last year. It was 12 years old at the time. I probably could have gotten through the winter (Mid Atlantic state) without issue, but I wanted to be on the safe side. i had no problems getting my car started at any time.

      This is one upside to climate change. When winters aren't as cold you don't tax your battery as much to get the car started.

      • My first truck battery, in ND and AK, lasted a similar period of time, and like you, I replaced it more to be safe than because of need.

        Of course, the reason is that even as cold reduces cranking amp capability in the short term, it also helps preserve the battery in the long term.

        So you could probably ship our old batteries down south and they can use them for a few more years without problem, because it's heat that kills batteries long term more.

    • You are telling me that with the batteries on board, AND a charger attached, there still might not be enough power to overcome a "Chicago cold and windy night" to get some charge on the battery so the car can move on it's own power? Would you be more specific on the weather here? I'm assuming -40 or slightly below on the thermometer, with windchill in the -50 to -60 range. That's cold but no so could we stopped working on the farm or going to classes. If there's drifting snow blocking roads then that's

      • It isn't that there isn't enough power available to heat the batteries up enough, it's that the heating system isn't capable of enough power.

        Let's say that you need 5 kWh to warm the battery up. But in the current conditions, the battery is radiating 1kW. A 11kW heater would have you warmed up in 30 minutes, but if you only have a 1.2kW heater, you're going to be there for a while.

        Options include increasing the wattage of the heaters or insulating the battery more. Maybe a battery blanket like used by ma

        • It isn't that there isn't enough power available to heat the batteries up enough, it's that the heating system isn't capable of enough power.

          I understood that part. What I was wondering is just how cold the weather had to be before the battery heaters could no longer heat up. The people engineering the car understood that there's a minimum temperature in which heating would be necessary, and had calculated the power required for the heaters. It would seem that they had not accounted for Chicago weather. Just how far off were they on their calculations? What kind of assumptions were they dealing with to size up the battery heaters?

          My guess i

          • I spent years up in North Dakota and Alaska. I'm not scared of Chicago weather. And I moved my truck all the time up there. Had to go to work, you know.

            I used to use a battery charger to keep my battery warm. When the battery starts getting cold enough to lose cranking amps, it looks like less than fully charged to the charger, and the charger will attempt to charge it. Excess charging wattage, in lead-acid batteries, warms them up internally. While not good at normal temperatures, this extra heat wor

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Cyberax ( 705495 )

      Two failure modes are common: first, there is not enough charge left for the car to prewarm the batteries; second, the charger can provide such power but if it's Chicago-cold and windy, the warmers are not powerful enough to overcome the environmental heat loss. Three hours later and the charge hasn't started.

      That's not how it works. You can charge a cold li-ion battery just fine, but its internal resistance will be very high, so you won't be able to charge it quickly. It's not a big deal if you are charging using an L2 charger. Tesla pre-condition the battery before supercharging to minimize the time spent on scarce charging spots.

      The second issue is that Tesla will try to warm the battery even while slow-charging, and it requires around 1kW of power. So if you're charging from a wall outlet (1.5kW limit) or

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Properly-maintained and non-defective electric cars have trouble charging in the cold and thus get stranded.

      Trouble? They may charge more slowly until the battery heats up, but they will charge. There's no reason why they should get stranded.

      AIUI charging a cold Li+ battery will cause rapid degradation and so electric cars have heaters to prewarm the batteries. The charger is smart enough to not charge cold batteries.

      Not quite. It's true that rapid charging a very cold battery isn't good for it, but you can charge it at lower speeds. The battery self-heats during charging, and almost all EVs have the ability to warm the battery electrically anyway, so will start doing that when plugged in. Smarter ones will start doing it as soon as you navigate to a charger, so you get fast charging spee

      • What if you are catching a flight and you don't have an extra hour? Seriously, do no EV owners ever have right deadlines with huge repercussions if they miss them?

  • We don't have to choose between a BEV and ICEV. I'm seeing some very nice options for PHEV coming to market, and I might get one soon.

    Why the PHEV? I know that if I'm on a long trip that I can pick any filling station or EVSE to add more miles to my trip. If there's a "flex fuel" PHEV that takes LPG or something in addition to gasoline then I'd be even happier.

    As someone not afraid to sleep in my vehicle I'm happy renting a camping spot for the night, and then plug in the PHEV for a long recharge for the

    • Because a PHEV has a smaller battery it has a smaller manufacturing emission footprint. Those smaller batteries also help overcome the lack of battery supply as well. And PHEV is an easier sell since it eliminates range anxiety. At least until gas stations disappear.
      • Gas stations disappear ? Like mebby yeah ... in 2225 AD. Until then my  coal-burning  butter-soft-6-speed Dodge-HellKat will blow off-the-road wussy EVs and trykes. VROOOOM !!

      • Because a PHEV has a smaller battery it has a smaller manufacturing emission footprint.

        Yes, but because it runs on fuel that takes as much energy to refine as you need to move an EV down the road, if you're not always plugging it in then your lifetime energy consumption (the only number that matters) is higher than a full EV.

        And PHEV is an easier sell since it eliminates range anxiety. At least until gas stations disappear.

        Yes, but it's wasteful compared to full EVs. Either you always plug it in, in which case the smaller battery is sufficient and you're wasting energy dragging around the ICE; Or you don't plug it in, and you're wasting energy by using fuel which is energy-intensive to prod

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Ksevio ( 865461 )

      Kind of sucks that you have the added complexity of the gas engine to deal with. All the extra maintenance for a feature that's barely used if you're plugging in at night. Sounds like the worst of both worlds in that sense, but glad it works for you

      • How is dragging about the added complexity of a gasoline engine that barely gets used any different than the added weight and cost of dragging about all that extra battery capacity that barely get used?

        With the "barely used" gasoline engine it means I'm not panicked looking for a EV charger or a gasoline station on a long trip, I can choose either. With the "barely used" gasoline engine I'm toasty warm while driving through the winter wonderland without range anxiety. With the "barely used" gasoline engin

      • Interestingly though for some PHEV designs, the overall complexity is probably lower than with a standard gasoline car since they're essentially petroeletric drives, and that means you can skip the entire transmission.

        So while worse than an electric car, it's not necessarily the worst of both worlds.

    • I have one and can confirm you are correct for those drive long distances. I own both electric and plug in hybrid and they are excellent for what we use them for. And this is the real point: itâ(TM)s good to have choices because rural and urban people, commuters and construction workers all have different use cases. Let the market decide. Electric cars are good enough, especially with subsidies, that they will replace most gas cars without ham handed government mandates for electric only.
  • surely getting the Age of vehicle data out of this would not be that hard so you can actually get some useful stats rather than these pointless ones.

  • The main cause of a car not starting is a weak battery due to age. They usually only last 5-7 years depending on wear you live. How many of those EVs are even 5 years old? This is a meaningless comparison with so many confounding variables it's hard to believe anyone would jump to such a superficial conclusion.

    Also ,when my car battery fails in the cold, I can go buy a new one for $100-$200 and replace it in about 15 minutes. When my EV battery fails, well, might as well scrap the car.

  • Another difference (Score:3)

    by RightwingNutjob ( 1302813 ) on Saturday January 20, 2024 @11:15PM (#64176127)

    A gas car with a dead battery can be jump-started by any other gas car, or even with a gizmo about the size of a wallet. Because combustion doesn't work that much worse in cold temperatures.

    An EV with a battery dead from cold, however, cannot be charged at all until the battery is warmed up.

    Let's try a car analogy: it would be like everyone driving on biodiesel, and having to go out half an hour early to work the undercarriage with a propane torch to get it going.

    • Or, more realistically, people would plug in their EVs overnight with "battery heater mode" turned on so the battery was warm and ready to use in the morning... the exact same way that you plug in your block heater for your diesel truck in very cold weather.

      Furthermore, an EV with a battery that isn't able to source enough current to run its own internal heater can absolutely be "jump started" by another vehicle that can deliver enough power to run the battery heater, at which point all that chemical energy

    • Yes, arguably every EV should have an EV charging port on it (as in, for charging other EVs.)

      Let's try a car analogy: it would be like everyone driving on biodiesel, and having to go out half an hour early to work the undercarriage with a propane torch to get it going.

      Good veg oil conversions include heated fuel lines, you can get resistive heating wraps specifically for this purpose. You could do the same thing if we all ran biodiesel. Biodiesel is a terrible wintertime motor fuel for a whole lot of reasons though. Then again, diesel is not a great fuel in the winter in general. Even green diesel made through fractional distillation still has gelling issues in commonly seen temp

  • ICE cars fail in cold because the battery provides less juice and the engine is more difficult to turn over.EV vehicles fail largely by design. The batteries can't be used below a certain temperature and can't be charged below freezing. That is the battery temperature, not the ambient temperature. There are heaters and other design workarounds but they usually require some operator attention to work. The data here is pretty much meaningless. If any car doesn't start there is a reason specific to the vehicle

  • Are you aware you never actually mentioned the name of the country in the summary? Are you an idiot? Saying "translated from Norwegian" doesn't count btw.

  • So, are the tow trucks they send to rescue these vehicles gas or electric?

  • If you really need your car, just buy a new battery for $50 or so every 3-4 years.

  • People know to plug EVs when left in the cold (because that is you do when you get home with an EV), as such direct comparison would be to an ICE car with an engine block heater. If you make direct comparison - unplugged EV vs. unplugged ICE, then non-start rate for unplugged EVs would be much higher as you have fully cold battery that now has to be warmed up.

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