Texas Joins States Charging High Fees to Register an EV (gizmodo.com) 357
"Driving an electric vehicle in Texas is soon to become more expensive," reports Gizmodo:
Governor Greg Abbott signed a law (SB 505) on May 13 instituting new fees for registering and owning EVs in the state. Under the bill, electric car owners will have to pay $400 upon registering their vehicle. Then, every subsequent year, EV drivers will have to shell out an additional $200. Both of those fees are on top of the cost of the standard annual registration renewal fees, which are $50.75 each year for most passenger cars and trucks.
At least 32 states currently have special electric vehicle registration fees, according to data from the National Conference of State Legislatures. These range from $50 in places like Colorado, Hawaii, and South Dakota to $274 (starting in 2028) in a recently passed piece of Tennessee legislation...
Like many other states that have instituted EV fees, the reasoning behind the Lone Star State's new law is that electric car drivers don't buy gas. Taxes at the fuel pump are the primary way that most states, Texas included, amass funds for road construction, maintenance, and other driving-related infrastructure.
The bill's author told a local news station that "with the growing use of EVs, the revenue from the fuel tax is decreasing, which diminishes our ability to fund road improvements for all drivers."
But Gizmodo notes that Texas's gas tax "is among the lowest in the country, at just $0.20 per gallon." (And the average car uses less than 500 gallons a year, according to the American Petroleum Institute.)
At least 32 states currently have special electric vehicle registration fees, according to data from the National Conference of State Legislatures. These range from $50 in places like Colorado, Hawaii, and South Dakota to $274 (starting in 2028) in a recently passed piece of Tennessee legislation...
Like many other states that have instituted EV fees, the reasoning behind the Lone Star State's new law is that electric car drivers don't buy gas. Taxes at the fuel pump are the primary way that most states, Texas included, amass funds for road construction, maintenance, and other driving-related infrastructure.
The bill's author told a local news station that "with the growing use of EVs, the revenue from the fuel tax is decreasing, which diminishes our ability to fund road improvements for all drivers."
But Gizmodo notes that Texas's gas tax "is among the lowest in the country, at just $0.20 per gallon." (And the average car uses less than 500 gallons a year, according to the American Petroleum Institute.)
Texas does a lot of crazy things (Score:2, Interesting)
But this isn't one of them, at least on the face of it - although who knows if there's some weird buried codicils about EV drivers having to sign a declaration that EV ownership will result in their burning in hell for all eternity...
In an case - as EVs proliferate, states need to find a way to continue paying for roads as gas tax revenues decline. My state (Washington) is at the opposite end of the political spectrum from Texas, ahd it's trying to figure this out as well.
Re:Texas does a lot of crazy things (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, this is crazy.
This is a punitive anti-environmental act disguised as an attempt at fairness. If you do the math, it's obvious. Texas is charging $200/year for EVs vs. $0.20/gallon for ICEs. That's saying an EV is equivalent to using a thousand gallons. The average US vehicle economy was 25.4 mpg in 2021, so that's saying they expect EV drivers to drive, on average, 25,400 miles/year.
As a good friend once said, "You don't penalize people for doing the right thing." That's exactly what this is. They're applying sin taxes to EVs.
On the other hand, if the EV transition is inevitable, this is effectively a doubling of the road tax, so Texas will end up with a lot more road money, but I'll bet they won't keep the money dedicated to transportation.
Re: (Score:3)
the counter thought:
most trucks get closer to 10 mpg (mean the equivalent tax to Ev), and also do a lot more damage to the roads. also,. due to batteries extra weight, the average Ev SUV weighs almost ass much as a ice truck
Re: (Score:3)
Counter-counter thought:
Road damage is proportional to the fourth power of the weight of the vehicle. 18-wheelers not only massively outweigh passenger vehicles, they also drive a lot more miles. These factors taken together mean that approximately all highway damage is done by commercial trucks.
The right way to pay for highway construction and maintenance is to charge per-mile fees to commercial trucks. They're already pretty tightly regulated, and most of them even have to submit mileage logs, so this
Re:Texas does a lot of crazy things (Score:5, Insightful)
In any case - as EVs proliferate, states need to find a way to continue paying for roads as gas tax revenues decline. My state (Washington) is at the opposite end of the political spectrum from Texas, and it's trying to figure this out as well.
Its not hard to figure out. Anyone who can do basic math can figure this out.
If your state uses gasoline tax revenue to pay for roads, just divide the total gas tax revenue by the total number of gasoline-powered vehicles.
For example in Texas it works out to about $100 per vehicle per year. So you charge electric vehicles $100 per year. And now electric vehicles are paying the same amount of money as gasoline vehicles. Problem solved.
Re: Texas does a lot of crazy things (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Your $100 doesn't take into account that EVs are substantially heavier than ICE vehicles and thus do significantly more damage to the roads. Using the road damage formula ((W1/W2)^4) the average EV does 3.4 times the damage vs the average ICE vehicle ((4,500/3,300)^4). By that metric the Texas fee seems rather reasonable.
Re: Texas does a lot of crazy things (Score:5, Informative)
Your $100 doesn't take into account that EVs are substantially heavier than ICE vehicles and thus do significantly more damage to the roads.
Actually, no. EVs are not substantially heavier than many of the trucks that people use to haul their families around in.
But if you want to go there, now let's talk about the damage done to roads by heavy trucks. Those heavy trucks don't pay remotely in proportion to the damage they do.
Re: (Score:3)
I would be interested to know your source for 4500 vs 3300. 4500 is Mach E weight, 100 more than an MY. Those are two of the three best-selling EVs in 2022, but the other is the M3, which is 4000. And this is still an overestimate, as the installed base of EVs in the US is tilted more towards Chevy Bolts and Nissan Leafs. And the EPA says the average US auto weight is 4100, not 3300: https://www.autolist.com/guide... [autolist.com]
So you are doing that classic thing of choosing a numerator and denominator number that suit
Re: (Score:2)
"states need to find a way to continue paying for roads as gas tax revenues decline"
it should also be said that this is EXACTLY the outcome that everyone needs to be working toward. This is not a problem, it is a reward.
Re: (Score:2)
But this isn't one of them, ...
Out of curiosity, what are the only other 4 non-crazy things TX does? :-)
Re: (Score:2)
Out of curiosity, what are the only other 4 non-crazy things TX does? :-)
Don't put me on the spot like that! I need at least a week to come up with that many...
Re: (Score:2)
Not to be argumentative - because, as listed, those are crazy things - but hopefully after asking ChatGPT for the list you actually verified these rules and their details through other sources? Because you really shouldn't take what ChatGPT says as gospel.
mileage tax is hard to over over taxing lines (Score:2)
mileage tax is hard to over over taxing lines and what about out of state people who don't have mileage taxing?
makeing GAS cars pay gas tax + mileage tax may not work that well.
will they need to lower tolls / make toll roads not court for miles?
Charging stations can tax/report (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
It's impossible to tax home charging reliably since you can charge from a regular electrical outlet. Many people charge using a mobile charger using a 240v outlet, and you can't distinguish between an outlet for a welder or RV vs. an EV.
Re: (Score:2)
It's impossible to tax home charging reliably since you can charge from a regular electrical outlet. Many people charge using a mobile charger using a 240v outlet, and you can't distinguish between an outlet for a welder or RV vs. an EV.
Then there is the other side, the car can maintain charging logs for tax purposes. Owners report the untaxed charging on their taxes.
Re: (Score:2)
Then there is the other side, the car can maintain charging logs for tax purposes. Owners report the untaxed charging on their taxes.
Yeah, there's no way to game THAT...
Re: (Score:2)
Then there is the other side, the car can maintain charging logs for tax purposes. Owners report the untaxed charging on their taxes.
Yeah, there's no way to game THAT...
And the gas tax cannot be gamed, filling the car from the untaxed fuel tank reserved for farm vehicles? Buying out of state?
Outliers and cheats are not a problem. The system just needs to collect sufficient revenue. And compliance with car charging can be combined with heavy penalties for cheating to get enough compliance. And EVs are so digital this can probably be automated. The car knowing if it connected to a taxed charger or not, including that info in its logs.
Re: Charging stations can tax/report (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
There have been experiments with mileage tax tracked by GPS to only tax on in-state non-private roads, but I don't see that approach going anywhere.
Making more roads toll roads in a horrible idea. By their nature, tolls go on the roads with lots of traffic, so they charge people for using the roads that are the cheapest to build when amortized over use (perhaps with the exception of major bridges and tunnels).
The two options that make sense are either an odometer tax or a fixed road tax. In both cases, st
Re: mileage tax is hard to over over taxing lines (Score:2)
EVs weigh more (Score:4, Informative)
The average car in Texas pays $100 in gas taxes, but also probably does less damage to roadways than even "small" EVs which usually weigh more than many SUVs.
Next time you're on the road, take a look at the tires on your favorite douchemobile and notice that they're usually narrower than what you see on just about any EV I can think of: any Tesla, VW IDx, Mustang E, etc. That's because the latter weigh more.
Re:EVs weigh more (Score:5, Insightful)
weight of the average EV is similar or under whatever your average truck weighs
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
That's the same weight as a dodge ram, which isn't paying extra.
This is an "own the liberals" tax, because people are so stupid they think that electric cars are a political issue, not just the march of technology. That's the only logic behind this. If kerb right was an issue they'd be taxing based on kerb weight.
Re: EVs weigh more (Score:2)
Re:EVs weigh more (Score:4, Interesting)
"they're usually narrower than what you see on just about any EV"
Prove it. Just more bullshit gaslighting.
While you're at it, prove that wider tires cause more road damage. How much wider are the tires of heavy trucks?
A Tesla Model 3 weighs 3600 or 4100 pounds (single/dual motor). The average US car in 2020 wieghed 4200 pounds. This whole narrative is total bullshit. BEV weight has NOTHING to do with this.
Re: EVs weigh more (Score:3, Insightful)
No genius. Wider tires don't cause more road damage; wider tires are wider to accomodate more vehicle weight at the same roughly 30-40 psig of vehicle tires.
This is why big trucks have wider tires, and more of them, than a tiny little econobox.
Thus if a vehicle has more contact area with the ground, either more wheels, more axles, or wider tires on the same number of wheels, it is because it weighs more.
And that total weight is what causes long term wear on the road. The keeping constant pressure by spreadi
Re: (Score:3)
The average car in Texas pays $100 in gas taxes, but also probably does less damage to roadways than even "small" EVs which usually weigh more than many SUVs.
EVs and pickup trucks do negligible damage to the road unless it is already coming apart.
Next time you're on the road, take a look at the tires on your favorite douchemobile and notice that they're usually narrower than what you see on just about any EV I can think of: any Tesla, VW IDx, Mustang E, etc. That's because the latter weigh more.
Most of the heaviest EVs are on big wide soft tires that spread out the load, because they are expected to give high performance. The ones with hard tires for mileage are smaller, and lighter. Vehicles do road damage mostly based on their total weight [gao.gov] — other factors are basically irrelevant in practical terms. It does help to have more axles if they're far enough apart, but most vehicles with additional axles are
Re:EVs weigh more (Score:5, Insightful)
but also probably does less damage to roadways than even "small" EVs which usually weigh more than many SUVs.
Horseshit. The Ford F-150 weighs far more than even large EVs, and it's one of the most common cars in Texas.
If you want to charge registration based on weight by all means I'm for it. Let's do this together. But write out a formula and apply it equally to all road vehicles.
I get that some are doing the math. (Score:2)
So the implication is that if Texas gas tax is twenty cents and "on average" a car uses 500 gallons, the price tag comes out to $100/year versus the EV $200/year. Thus, there's a $100 up charge per year and a $300 up front charge specific to only EVs. The rationale from why Texas adds such a premium? No idea, I don't really care. Most legislators are shitty at pricing niche shit anyway, why would anyone expect any different on this? Eventually EVs will become the norm and voters will shout down the hik
If only there was a way to measure charging ... (Score:2)
Or, if cars themselves could somehow log the amount of power.
Yeah, it looks like measuring electrical power transmission is an unsolvable problem.
Re: (Score:2)
however, evil republicans taxing something as a political weapon against something they dislike is 100% on brand.
As if democrats do not do that with their "demons", ex gas, cigarettes, ammunition, etc.
Tax the tires. (Score:2, Insightful)
I've been saying this for a decade now. Performance tires that grip well, but don't last long do more harm to the roads than poor-grip long-life tires, so those drivers would pay more taxes relatively in step with their damages caused. High-gross-weight vehicles damage the roads MUCH more than anything else, and those vehicle use oodles of tires. Maybe tires increasing in price by 10 fold or whatever is a non-starter, but I'd love to hear other reasons this is not an
Re: (Score:2)
grip in tires don't damage the road, what damages the road is vehicle weight, by a phenomenon called creep https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Citation please.
Weather is a primary cause of road wear, that and petroleum pollution from ICE vehicles. I would wager BEVs cause less road wear than ICE.
Tire taxes cause drivers to postpone tire replacement which is a bad thing. It also causes poorer people to be unable to afford tire replacement. Paying a little tax at a a time is less painful than all at once.
Re:Tax the tires. (Score:5, Insightful)
I like the tire tax, but if it's too egregious then that's just going to encourage people to run on worn and bald tires...
Re:Tax the tires. (Score:5, Insightful)
For the reason you pointed out, it's probably a good idea in theory and a bad idea in practice.
Better would be a mileage tax, and make it apply to ALL vehicles. The gas tax should be an environmental damage tax, not a road maintenance tax.
Have odometers checked at the DMV (or the MTO where I live) by a representative of the government, forget the honour system. And have that tax rate be dependent on the make and model of the vehicle you're driving.
It will be 'unfair' to states or provinces that are collecting tax for vehicles that spend a lot of time elsewhere, but that kind of thing can be estimated fairly well and transfers made to compensate.
Damn (Score:5, Funny)
Elon Musk gave him a blowjob and that’s how he treats Tesla? That’s some next level dom/sub play.
Re: (Score:2)
too bad I don't have any mod points left :)
Charge mileage and weight (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
As long as you only drive within the state, then it sort of works.
But when they open that door, gps tracking won't be far behind, with all it entails.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
OK, so maybe just by weight and not by mileage? One could argue the gasoline per-gallon tax covers the mileage.
Re: (Score:2)
"Really, they need to charge people for their usage."
Why? All that is needed is a transition plan for replacing the gas taxes as they disappear. Gas taxes are as much for social engineering as for targeted maintenance. The fact that BEV owners are not paying them is evidence that we are getting what we want. Republicans aren't of course, that's what this punitive tax is for.
Re: (Score:3)
Really, they should charge in proportion to external damage.
Elon... (Score:2)
I wonder what Musk is thinking about this now; especially after he oh so very performatively bent the knee to Texas and its republicans just few years ago. I didn't get relocating (Which he failed at because so few Deer Creek personnel were willing to relocate from Palo Alto to Texas, LOL!) Tesla to the state then, given that Texans hate EVs with such a burning passion you still can't technically buy one there. I figured Elon thought that by kissing Abbot's ass, he could get the ban rescinded. But now Te
Simple tax based on miles driven (Score:2)
Self reported odometer based miles driven per year. Can even make it based on weight of the car too. So many cents for so many ton-miles. Simple, universal, unbiased...
But that is not how Republicans act. Government in every personal thing, and out of every corporate thing.. What a bunch of deplorable morons.
Re: (Score:2)
Change In Old-Timey Taxes (Score:2)
Now that EVs are more common, the revenue at the pump is decreasing.
My state charges a $150 EV fee as part of the yearly renewal, which comes out to $220/yr because I have a vanity plate on my Tesla Model 3.
Do I feel the fee is necessary? I'm okay with the current amount, because our roads get torn up each winter. My car needs to pay for it's
The US slipping Ito the rear view mirror (Score:4, Insightful)
I've been travelling to the US fairly regularly ever since I was 16, around 1990. I grew up reading Heinlein and Asimov, and was awestruck that first trip by the modernity and can-do ethos of the US compared to Europe at the time. That sense of modernity lasted many years, but at some point, it just started to slip. Too many things felt stuck in the past. I remember that the first two ways I noticed this were low powered electrical outlets and the lack of chip and PIN. To this day, the US just feels miles behind on payments: on a trip to Chicago in April, I had endless difficulties in one restaurant using Apple Pay. In London, and on every work trip around Europe for the past five years, I've not bothered with a physical wallet or cards, because Apple Pay is totally ubiquitous everywhere. In almost every case, it seems to be that vested interests are effective at creating barriers to competition, and the amazing insularity of the US means that most people are completely unaware that other countries haven't got the same issues and are moving forward. To take an example from another arena: for years, I used to love going to the US for the food. The choice! The flavours! But back in 2021, we went to California as a foodie family and despite careful planning to try and eat at decent places, my son routinely had only a single vegetarian choice on the menu, normally pasta with tomato sauce. And this in California! And the whole experience was and remains so old-fashioned: giant portions, steak and seafood still being the pinnacle of fancy food in so many places, the ridiculous theatre with the menu prices needing to have both sales tax and a huge tip added on because waiting staff aren't paid properly, the insistence on taking the card away for payment because wireless POS terminals are still not a thing, etc etc.
So much of this is driven by vested interests who either ike the status quo, or want to retrench. This is the context in which I read this story: yet another example of much of the US giving up on modernity. It's so sad to see.
So here's a thought (Score:5, Insightful)
Just lower the price of gasoline and make everybody pay the higher registration fees.
Then at the very least it wouldn't seem discriminatory.
Re:Crazy argument (Score:5, Informative)
This is nothing but irrational hostility toward electric vehicles by retarded Republicans.
Re:Crazy argument (Score:5, Insightful)
nope, they're gonna charge 450.75 on first year, then 250.75 for subsequent years. this is just a way to punish EV owners for having the audacity of not buying a dinausaur-juice drinking monster truck...
Re:Crazy argument (Score:5, Interesting)
Prove it
Since you obviously can't seem to figure out how to search this for yourself...here's a few choices to read.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/07... [cnn.com] https://wraltechwire.com/2021/... [wraltechwire.com] https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/... [cnet.com] https://evi-usa.com/how-much-d... [evi-usa.com]
Electric car not heavier [Re:Crazy argument] (Score:5, Interesting)
EVs are heavier on average than ICEs and therefore cause more road wear.
Prove it
Since you obviously can't seem to figure out how to search this for yourself...here's a few choices to read.
[snip]
Not useful.
The most popular vehicle in Texas is the Ford F-150 [kxan.com], curb weight 4,021 to 5,740 lbs. The most popular electric car is the Tesla Model Y, curb weight 3,920 to 4,416 pounds.
Comparable, but no, the electric car is lighter.
Re: Electric car not heavier [Re:Crazy argument] (Score:3, Informative)
And the F-150 gets about 12-14 mpg meaning that the gas tax funds road upkeep in a manner proportional to its weight and thus impact on the roads. The Tesla pays nothing so itâ(TM)s impact goes uncompensated
Re: (Score:3)
And the F-150 gets about 12-14 mpg
The F-150 gets about 20 mpg on the freeway. Even mine (when I finish this engine rebuild, which I finally am actually into now that I have all (?) of the bits) gets 18, and it's a 2006 SCLB 4x4 with a 5.4 and the max tow package, therefore also 4.10s. If you boot it aggressively you can easily make it get mileage like that. However, since it's not a diesel it doesn't make big clouds of asshole-announcing smoke, so there's little point to doing that from their standpoint. What the assholes are doing with tru
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
oh, and killing human civilization with CO2
Re:Electric car not heavier [Re:Crazy argument] (Score:5, Insightful)
Electricity production in Texas is less carbon intensive and produces less pollutants than gas does. And, tailpipe emissions happen in your neighbourhood. If EVs didn't do a damn thing else besides move tailpipe emissions out of neighbourhoods where lots of people live to power stations where few people live, that in itself would still be a huge win.
The choices we are faced with are always: which is better and which is worse, not which is perfect and which is not.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Crazy argument (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
It has been a pretty common argument by people on the left in the past to demand SUV/Truck owners get higher fees due to them be heavier and thus damaging the roads more. Tesla cars (4.5k-5.1k lbs) for example are practically the same weight as a sizable truck/suv (4k-5.7k lbs). And the damage done to roads isn't linear, its cubed so a little more weight does a lot more damage. Comparing a sedan to a semi for example (from below link) having a vehicle that is only 5 times the weight per axle does 625 tim
Re: (Score:3)
Here is the MY vs some DIRECT competitors. MY is 4555 lbs Q5: 4079 lbs [iseecars.com]
Lexus NX 450: 4475 [iseecars.com]
MS? 4561 lbs MB S class: 4740 lbs [iseecars.com]
Audi A8: 4762 [truecar.com]
Audi A7: 4343 [iseecars.com]
MX? 5185 lbs MB GLS: 5467 [iseecars.com]
MB GLE: 4608 lbs [iseecars.com]
Audi Q7: 4817 lbs [iseecars.com]
I could continue on and on, but the fact is, that EVs, ESP. TESLA, are similar in weight to the LICE competitor.
What is interesting is that a number of the EVs have wider tires than does LICE. THat is to help deal
Re:Crazy argument (Score:4, Interesting)
So, that 33% increase in weight results in over 3 times as much road damage. Only taxing double seems more than fair.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
"Second, EVs do more damage to roads through use per mile than ICE cars do, because with all those batteries, they're HEAVIER than ICE vehicles in the same size and type class, in some cases, by a factor of two or more times. "
Prove it.
BEVs don't puke pollutants, that alone is vastly more benefit than any increase on road wear that you imagine. The bulk of road wear comes from heavy vehicles, not marginal weight increases for BEV sedans. The argument is classic Republican gaslighting.
"Further, the lower c
Re:Not so crazy, really. (Score:5, Insightful)
Nice rant, but I think that you missed the point of the outrage. The outrage isn't that they're charging extra, it's that the extra is far above that of what ICE vehicles pay in gasoline tax.
If they'd charged $100/year for it, without the nonsense of $400 for the first year, then it'd be mostly a non-story.
Okay, damage to roads, sure, but what about damage to the environment? By all estimates, $0.20 per gallon is far below the environmental damage of gasoline. It should be $2.10 or even $3/gallon. [time.com]
As such, doubling the gasoline tax, for now, would actually save everybody money. Hell, EVs are currently saving the world oodles of money in avoided pollution and whatnot.
Next, damage already done - it's really insignificant. You don't need to charge current EV owners multiple times their share for past EV use, because one, it's a rounding error, because there just haven't been significant numbers of EVs before now, and the number are rapidly increasing, so charging multiple times just overshoots the goal comically.
EVs damage the road more: road damage is by the cube of the axle rate, but what I'm seeing is that EV sedans are 30% heftier than their ICE counterparts. EV SUVs and Trucks are double, but even then, from what I'm reading road wear from them is negligible compared to big rigs. Basically, a properly designed road that can take the occasional semi is going to laugh at even the weight of EVs.
Still, if it was really a concern, it would have been easy for the legislation, rather than just slapping a flat extra tax on EVs if this was a concern, to create a formula based on vehicle weight, so that that EV F150 might pay $400 extra, while the Nissan Leaf(actually lighter than most sedans) might pay $50.
On more miles because it's cheaper: You also have to figure in the average shorter range and longer refuel times as well.
But from what I'm seeing [ca.gov] on average annual miles, they're about the same.
I did find a cite saying EV owners put more miles on, but it's really small: 8,800 vs 8,450 [aftermarketonline.net]. 4% extra miles doesn't mean that you need 100% more taxes.
The difference drops if you only consider vehicles of the same age, as ICE trends older, and older ICE vehicles average fewer miles driven.
I'm not a fan of Abbott, never voted for him and never will, but neither will I sit back and stay silent while people attack him (or Republicans) for the wrong reasons. This new policy, rule, or law, is PERFECTLY REASONABLE, and indeed, will probably be instituted EVERYWHERE eventually, unless someone figures out a way to get people and companies to do road maintenance for free, and materials needed to DO that maintenance cost nothing, neither of which will EVER happen.
There was a pizza company that started fixing potholes...
https://pavingforpizza.com/ [pavingforpizza.com]
But still, that would be the excuse if the registration fee was an extra $100/year, not $400 and $200. That's what makes it unreasonable. Double the gasoline tax while you're at it.
I don't feel sorry for EV owners in this case (Score:2)
I think that the, "EV cars weigh more," argument is bogus. EVs are no heavier than common trucks or SUVs.
From the outside looking in, however, Texas EV owners are being entitled babies on this issue.
First of all, $200 annual registration fee isn't punitive; It's actually deeply discounted compared to other states. In Arizona in 2021, my new $45K car's registration fee was ~$750-$800 out the door, and for 2022 it was ~$665. Fees go down as the car depreciates, but you don't come anywhere near $200 (let alone
Re: Crazy argument (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In Texas, the average gasoline-powered car generates about $100 per year in gasoline tax revenue for the state. Charging electric-vehicle owners around $100 a year would be reasonable. But instead, they are going to charge $400 for registration ( 8 times the cost for registering a non-electric vehicle) and then $200 a year after that.
I generally agree on unfair registration and yearly fees however EVs tend to be about 1000lbs heavier than similarly classed ICE vehicles. It isn't unreasonable to charge EV owners more to cover increased wear and tear on the roads.
Re:Crazy argument (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
"In this case the choice to drive an EV car comes with the responsibility to pay for the difference that makes in new infrastructure, bureaucratic overhead and industry building."
None of this is for those things and EV users do that already. Furthermore, government should incentivize the transition, it is for everyone's benefit.
"I don't drive an electric vehicle. I have no vested interest in electric vehicle infrastructure."
But you have a desire to advocate for taxes that do nothing to build infrastructur
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Furthermore, cars with ICE that get higher gas mileage end up paying lower fuel (hence road) taxes per mile than cars that get lower gas mileage, so following TX logic, more fuel-efficient ICE cars should pay higher registration rates proportional to their increased fuel efficiency. Since they're not, the TX argument for this with EVs is disingenuous.
A more fair, but more complicated, way to administer road taxes would be based on weight and miles traveled -- like done with tractor-trailers.
Re: Crazy argument (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
ICE vehicles also catch fire, and at a higher rate.
"So its likely not just miles but a pre-payment on local resources?"
No, it's not likely to be that. It's likely to be an anti-EV tax for political benefit.
"...looked like a fuel depot caught on fire."
Ever see a "fuel depot" catch fire? And why don't you advocate for a fuel depot fire tax levied on ICE only?
Re: (Score:2)
Agreed but thats hard to do. EVs can be pretty heavy and when they catch fire they require hundreds of thousands of gallons to put out.
For some reason, the fact that 117,400 internal-combustion automobiles catch fire every year [statista.com] seems to get ignored by the EV-haters.
Re: (Score:2)
That's a lot like what a fully engulfed ICE car looks like as well.
As for "hundreds of thousands of gallons", I'd have to as "of what?". As a metal fire, water isn't an appropriate extinguisher method anyways. Wrong tool for the job. Heck, it isn't even all that correct for ICE as well, it's just that well, 100k gallons of water would be $25 at my old utility rate, so it's cheap.
The answer for EV fires is, a lot of the time, the same as for an ICE fire: Just let it burn itself out.
Re: (Score:2)
Or pay for it out of general funds. There is nothing that compels road maintenance to be paid for by the mile, or by the car-year.
Re: (Score:2)
Or pay for it out of general funds. There is nothing that compels road maintenance to be paid for by the mile, or by the car-year.
I guess the thinking around road taxes based on miles is that driving on them causes road wear proportional to amount (miles) driven and vehicle weight. I imagine number of axles and/or tires could also factor in. Not sure about highway vs city miles. Also not sure about the rational for recurring taxes based on age of the car -- Virginia has annual auto property taxes that include that in the calculation.
Re: Crazy argument (Score:2)
117,000 Internal combustion car fires per year (Score:3)
Do you have any idea the financial resources consumed when they catch fire?
Good point! Since internal combustion vehicles catch fire 117,000 times a year, there should be a special internal-combustion vehicle tax to cover this.
https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com]
Re: (Score:3)
Its gotta be the oil based liquid the li-ion is suspended in.
The cars you're seeing have NMC batteries which release oxygen from the electrolyte when heated. And since they're dense, they can have a lot of heat energy in them. That's why it takes so much more water to put out an EV fire. LFP batteries don't do this, but they have less energy density so many automakers don't want to use them. Tesla uses them for lower-spec models, about 50% of the vehicles they sell in the USA use LFP and the rest are NMC. LFP can still burn, it's not impossible, but it's far more res
Re: Crazy argument (Score:2)
Re:Makes perfect sense. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Makes perfect sense. (Score:5, Informative)
well, depends on your vehicle.
RAM 2500 has 6,865 lbs. curb weight
ford F150 has 4,705 lbs. curb weight.
Model X has curb weight of 5,390 lbs.
the largest tesla electric car is thus in the mean of those large vehicles which are very common in the state of TX
Re:Makes perfect sense. (Score:5, Funny)
When considering the weight of the average Texas truck, don't forget to include an extra 200 to 400 pounds for the driver....
Re: (Score:2)
hahahahha, point taken !
Re: (Score:2)
I think of it as "gross" weight....
Re: (Score:2)
If someone adds nuts to their truck which didn’t leave the factory with them, the truck has had gender affirming care.
Re: Makes perfect sense. (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
If vehicle weight is a factor, then the road tax should be influenced by the fourth power rule [wikipedia.org].
At a quick glance, electric cars are about as heavy as an SUV, thus SUVs should be covering the same amount of wear. Thus if the electric car is expected to pay $200/year, so should the SUV.
Maybe a fee could be applied based on pollution as well.
Re: (Score:2)
It is amazing how stupid the comments are regarding proportional taxes. Gas taxes are not designed to make taxation proportional, that is merely an opportunity to market the tax as being fair.
States levy gas taxes because they can. They don't care if they are fair or not. Taxes are also fungible, gas taxes are claimed to maintain roads, but that's just politicians jacking you off. Gas taxes exist because the state gets away with it and because they discourage, to some extent, overuse, they can be replac
Re: (Score:2)
"As such they pollute more by emiting more finedust, and the roads suffer more wear and tear."
Prove it. Also, what about other forms of pollution that BEV does not cause?
Personally, I'd rather not have my asphalt roads covered in ICE byproduct puke and I'd suspect that BEV results in LESS road damage per mile, despite the extra weight (which is incremental anyway).
Also, if there was more "finedust" then the tires would wear out sooner, yet tire manufacturers develop new tires to address this very issue. J