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Power Transportation

Ford Halts Production, Shipments of F-150 Lightning Over Possible Battery Issue (reuters.com) 82

Posted by BeauHD from the put-on-hold dept.
Ford said on Tuesday that it had stopped production and shipments of its F-150 Lightning electric pickup after discovering a potential battery issue during pre-delivery checks. Reuters reports: "We are not aware of any incidences of this issue in the field," Ford spokesperson Emma Bergg said in an email. She said the production stop was issued at the start of last week. Ford added it was investigating the matter, which was earlier reported by CNBC and first reported by Motor Authority. Shares of the automaker were down 1% in afternoon trade. Bergg says Ford has not established a timeline for when production and the shipments will resume. "The team is diligently working on the root cause analysis," she told CNBC, adding the company is "doing the right thing by our customers" to resolve any potential issues before resuming production and shipments.
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Ford Halts Production, Shipments of F-150 Lightning Over Possible Battery Issue More

Ford Halts Production, Shipments of F-150 Lightning Over Possible Battery Issue

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  • ... those cheap 9900mAh 18650 cells from Aliexpress [aliexpress.com], but dang those were just too cheap to pass on... ;-)

  • F-150 Lightings, while nice large passenger vehicles, are not good trucks. Ford's design is essentially an electric conversion of an ICE truck chassis and the limitations, particularly the terrible range while handling typical truck loads, reflects this. This production halt with no commitment to resume — despite a huge backlog of preorders — is a backhand way of getting out of delivering a large number of very disappointing products and ruining Ford's long history of F-150/250 marketplace suc

    • How crap is it really at being a truck? A quick google seems to indicate that it's fine for hauling stuff, but towing even a light trailer is murder on the maximum range.
      • So you just answered your own question.
        • Reading comprehension. There's more to a truck than towing stuff. Even many tradespeople will rarely have to tow anything with their truck. So will the Lightning work for them, or is it crap in other ways too?

        • Most people don't tow anything with their trucks.

      • Considering most drivers of an F-150 in Canada and the US don't actually use it for trade, nor hauling cargo, towing. Aside from dick measuring, I mean towing capacity in ads- it just might need to take a sales hit. If it can still go massively over the speed limit, tailgate (driving too close behind you), and blind other drivers with it's lights.. it'll be loved by their owners.

        For the handful of drivers needing actual towing capacity, trade, construction, long distance- there is a reason most tow truck

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by tbords ( 9006337 )

        How crap is it really at being a truck? A quick google seems to indicate that it's fine for hauling stuff, but towing even a light trailer is murder on the maximum range.

        Max range is also cut on an ICE truck by a large amount. Towing isn't the issue, shape of what you tow is as it cuts the efficiency greatly.

    • I dunno. For many people (like myself) who only need an actual truck a few times a year, the F-150 Lightning sounds ideal.

      I'm not a contractor - I don't need a truck for my job. Most of the time there wouldn't be anything in the bed. And when I do need an actual truck it'd be for running stuff to the dump, or bringing something oversize home from Home Depot, or hauling a few pieces of furniture from one house to another. Even if these tasks involve taking a significant hit in range, it's basically irrelevan

      • Remember, not all contractors are hauling trailers or huge weights all the time.

        My brother's an electrician. Do you know what would be best for him? A hybrid cargo van with the generator capacity. As is they have to spend a lot of effort securing their stand alone generators when they need them. With a hybrid with the capabilities of the lightning, he could pull up, attach the van to the building site, power it up, and get to work. Or, for example, maybe charge the batteries for his power tools inside

        • The hybrid does seem like the sweet spot for trucks. The F150 Hybrid is available with a 7.2 kW generator!

          I am not sure why there isn't an E150 van based on the F150 Hybrid.

      • Brining something oversize home from Home Depot, they will rent you a truck. Which is often nicer than scratching up your own trying to save a few bucks. That's true whether your trucks is ICE, hybrid, or BEV. Of course I don't follow my own advice. But it's still good advice.

    • No electric pickup truck is going to do well while towing a big wind catcher. That's just not happening at all. The Rivian gets about the same reduction in range while towing as the Lightning does (to a third of normal.) Ford's real battery problem could easily be just not being able to sustain production. The lightning gets fine range while carrying typical truck loads, it's towing typical truck trailers that it's bad at. Ford can sell Lightnings as fast as they can build them (faster, obviously.) The Achi

      • No electric pickup truck is going to do well while towing a big wind catcher. That's just not happening at all.

        No electric pickup truck or no pickup truck period?

        The range reduction for EVs might just be a bigger issue because their range is already a bit low and refuelling in transit is more annoying.

        Ford's real battery problem could easily be just not being able to sustain production. The lightning gets fine range while carrying typical truck loads, it's towing typical truck trailers that it's bad at. Ford can sell Lightnings as fast as they can build them (faster, obviously.)

        I suspect they're being honest about having found an actual issue if for no other reason than the fact that "oh we found an issue with our batteries" is pretty bad PR.

        The most charitable explanation for Ford is they're being extra careful since the F150-Lightning is their coming out party as an EV-maker and they don't

        • The range reduction for EVs might just be a bigger issue because their range is already a bit low and refuelling in transit is more annoying.

          Diesels suffer less range reduction when towing than do EVs. They suffer more speed reduction up steep grades, though, unless you have enough more engine than you need the rest of the time that it's costing you mileage. As a bonus, there's less drag when they slow down :)

          Gassers lose just about as much range as EVs do, so the fast fueling is a bigger benefit than the increased range in their case.

          I suspect they're being honest about having found an actual issue if for no other reason than the fact that "oh we found an issue with our batteries" is pretty bad PR.

          There could be an actual battery issue, for sure, because batteries are harder than they seem at first when you'

      • the EV doesn't require so much maintenance.

        Unless you bought a lemon, a requirement for major under-the-hood work on an ICE is probably going to begin around the same time a BEV of similar vintage needs a new battery.

        If you're comparing leased vehicles and plan to be rid of it before any major issues crop up, yes, a BEV will require less maintenance over the duration of the lease, but on modern vehicles that mostly just means tires and oil changes, and BEVs still need tires too so you're not getting out of that part.

        • the EV doesn't require so much maintenance.

          Unless you bought a lemon

          I did, and it was fucking stupid, because it said Ford all over it.

      • Even without a wind catcher range tanks. There was a video years ago a guy got a job i think for company made Rivian in cali. He was living in det and tracked his trip from det to cali. He had a ford mustang he wanted to bring so he rented a car trailer no it wasn't a box trailer. He only was getting around the 100 or so miles between recharges all way to phoenix. https://tfltruck.com/2021/11/r... [tfltruck.com]

        • Even without an EV range can tank as well. I hauled a trailer from Alaska to Florida. Got almost half the mileage my truck got unencumbered.

          Thing is, just adding more gas, bigger tanks, is easier than adding more batteries.

          That said, here's an expert thought: For pure EV trucks, what if we take a trick from trains and put a generator into the trailer?

          Just hook the power cable up with the lights and brakes and such.

          Or there were even proposals for "pusher" trailers. IE the trailer would, at least some of

          • Hell, just build extra battery capacity into the trailer that the towing vehicle can use.

            • Re: (Score:1)

              by tbords ( 9006337 )

              Hell, just build extra battery capacity into the trailer that the towing vehicle can use.

              Excellent idea, especially when taken to the logical end and applying this to Big Rigs as well.

          • Or there were even proposals for "pusher" trailers. IE the trailer would, at least some of the time, actually operate an engine to push the truck. This would enable it to charge via regenerative braking.

            This design [wired.com] uses a strain gauge, which makes it sort of like surge brakes. I think that's a bad idea, based on my trailer maintenance experience. Sliding coupler parts are frequent problem points due to rust, contamination, and corrosion. It would be cleverer to use something on the OBD bus to detect the brake pedal signal (and maybe even the braking force, which you could conceivably get from the ESP/ABS) as well as the accelerator pedal position.

            The neat thing about having the trailer have a powertrain i

            • Hmm...

              I'm not sure that a "strain gauge" would have to even be in the coupler system - remember that forces travel, so you could easily have the gauges/sensors further back, out of the weather. It wouldn't even need to "slide" - the f-16 controller, for example, senses force, not movement.

              But yes, I was figuring more a software based connection than pulling all the information off the hitch tension or such.

              But on braking - if the trailer itself has braking capacity(which it should if it is also an EV), sho

              • But on braking - if the trailer itself has braking capacity(which it should if it is also an EV), shouldn't anything able to steer it be able to drive? IE loss of signal = stop.

                Tow ratings are constructed such that you might have a chance to stop the trailer even if its brakes fail completely. Obviously in some situations that's not realistic (steep down grades) but that's the goal.

    • F-150 Lightings, while nice large passenger vehicles, are not good trucks.

      Most truck owners don't need much truck capability anyway. The people buying these are fully aware of their limitations (especially people who actually need real trucks), and will continue to buy a gas or diesel model if it better suits their needs. Choice is good. It is not like the other F-150s are going away anytime soon.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Tailhook ( 98486 )

        Most truck owners don't need much truck capability anyway.

        Here we have the urbanista myopia. Where I am everyone, I'm mean Everyone, has a towing vehicle. Feed, firewood, livestock, fill, building material, ag machines of every imaginable type, boats, RVs, fifth wheels, snowmobiles, ATV trailers... on and on. Towing becomes very important once you blunder out of Starbucksville.

        The people buying these are fully aware of their limitations

        What fraction of buyers will not possess the awareness you presume? The answer is: way more than Ford can afford to disappoint. The very first Lightning towing attempts publicized by re

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by skam240 ( 789197 )

          Here we have the urbanista myopia. Where I am everyone, I'm mean Everyone, has a towing vehicle. Feed, firewood, livestock, fill, building material, ag machines of every imaginable type, boats, RVs, fifth wheels, snowmobiles, ATV trailers... on and on. Towing becomes very important once you blunder out of Starbucksville.

          I'm not really sure how you dont realize that by virtue of you living in what is clearly a low population density area your personal experience is not representative of the vast majority of people. Sure, electric vehicles have a bit to go before they're truly useful for every single American but they're plenty good for most right now.

          What fraction of buyers will not possess the awareness you presume? The answer is: way more than Ford can afford to disappoint. The very first Lightning towing attempts publicized by reviewers have been an unmitigated fiasco; the range is literally laughable, and there is no world where you can sell anything called "F-150" and rationalize this to paying customers.

          Here we have ruralnista myopia. Most Americans don't live like you do. The range is fine for the millions of suburban and urban truck drivers who will never tow anything for th

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Tailhook ( 98486 )

            you dont realize

            I realize. A lot of suburbites drive trucks as urban tanks and prestige vehicles, rarely towing anything. What you fail to realize is that a large fraction of the truck market is the rural buyer; people that actually need the full capabilities of light and medium duty trucks. Every little town has one or more of a Ford, GM or Chrysler dealer and the lots are filled with these trucks, and the buyers have strong views on the performance of these products; they aren't just tootling around town with their tr

            • A lot of suburbites drive trucks as urban tanks and prestige vehicles, rarely towing anything. What you fail to realize is that a large fraction of the truck market is the rural buyer; people that actually need the full capabilities of light and medium duty trucks.

              25% is a large fraction [americantrucks.com], but not large enough to be relevant to the question of whether the vast majority of ICEV pickups sold could be replaced with EVs, and therefore also not to whether it makes sense to make EV pickups.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by Tailhook ( 98486 )

                25% is a large fraction [americantrucks.com], but not large enough to be relevant to the question of whether the vast majority of ICEV pickups sold could be replaced with EVs, and therefore also not to whether it makes sense to make EV pickups.

                This is correct, although not including at least part of the "51% live in small- to medium-size towns" is disingenuous. Many people live in small to medium size towns because they have boats and fifth wheels that are not feasible to own in "big cities" or "suburbs" (HOA restrictions being what they are.)

                The missing part is this; whatever the large fraction is, some fraction of that will end up in a new electric truck and some fraction of those will end up on YouTube excoriating these products as laughab

                • There's enough demand from people willing to live with the drawbacks of EVs (which are real) to keep the prices up, so I don't think that's a big problem for Ford. On the other hand, if they have exploding battery packs or something, that is. They have had a lot of supply chain problems though, which is also a reason why they have had production volume problems.

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by skam240 ( 789197 )

                  The missing part is this; whatever the large fraction is, some fraction of that will end up in a new electric truck and some fraction of those will end up on YouTube excoriating these products as laughably unworkable. That is the problem Ford is facing, and you know that because it's already happening. Like it or not that's reality.

                  At some point people are responsible for their own decisions. If you're dropping new high end truck money and you dont do your homework that's on you. It's just like if I were to buy a house directly next to a school and then start complaining about the recess noise. It's not the kids fault that I was stupid and didnt consider my purchase properly nor would it be Ford's fault someone didnt bother to read even a single review on the vehicle they are shelling out tens of thousands of dollars on because every

        • Towing becomes very important once you blunder out of Starbucksville.

          You are still a minority of truck owners, and should buy a diesel (not gas), and not a Lightning. Are you telling me your fellow truck owners don't know this? That people outside of Starbucksville really are all uneducated hicks and not just a stereotype? I'm guessing if you tell your dealership you tow trailers a lot they will be more than happy happy to point you to an ICE model they have sitting on their lot as opposed to a backordered lightning

          What fraction of buyers will not possess the awareness you presume?

          None who can use the internet. Most people are skeptical

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by necro81 ( 917438 )

      F-150 Lightings, while nice large passenger vehicles, are not good trucks. Ford's design is essentially an electric conversion of an ICE truck chassis and the limitations, particularly the terrible range while handling typical truck loads

      Most ICE trucks aren't that good at doing typical truck things, either. And for 98% of trips, they are just "nice large passenger vehicles", too. They also happen to be drastically less efficient than an actual large passenger vehicle.

    • The terrible range isn't a problem for me and most people I know that have pickups. If you use the pickup for work, you're probably not driving long enough distances anyway where worrying about range matters. If it's your personal vehicle you probably have a regular car (ice or ev) for long distance drives. Speaking as someone from New England.

      The exception as I see it is if you want to tow a trailer long distances. Certainly those use cases exist, like a remote farmer bringing crop or livestock to market,

  • All first versions have problems (Score:3)

    by atomicalgebra ( 4566883 ) on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @07:52PM (#63293639)
    I will wait for the kinks to be ironed out in the second and third versions. It is a great truck that is better than gas powered truck in 95%+ of use cases.

    • What extended personal experience why do you assume that?
      What experienced Ford line mechanics have you consulted?

      Unless someone has (at minimum) automotive technician-tier knowledge and experience with a specific system or consults with such professionals they cannot have an informed opinion. Vehicle reviews do not address more than the kinesthetic operating experience over a short interval. That's why this mechanic/technician waits several years for vehicle product lines to fully mature by which time my p

    • It is a great truck that is better than gas powered truck in 95%+ of urban errand running and commuting use cases.

      There, fixed it for you. The testing while actually towing something has been disappointing to say the least, and there are still no level 3 chargers anywhere off the interstate, There is no electricity at all at the campground, so don't expect to top off there.

      • Well that's the vast majority of truck owners. Long-haul towing is the only thing it can't do as well. Must people do not do long-haul towing. It even works better for work trucks that do a lot of short-haul towing. Why are so many people religiously opposed to new technology?

  • Ford having another issue with batteries in their EVs? color me shocked.

    Their Mustang EV had an issue a few months ago that could lead to a fire, I'm not sure they fixed that too. Wait, they haven't.

  • New vehicle purchases by private parties are TOY purchases. Anyone with new truck money can wait five or ten years for them to improve rather than beta test. I'm a lifelong mechanic far too smart to jump on any bandwagon unless that wagon has proven itself in fleet use for several years.

    There are plenty of rich people who won't notice the cost of a new truck and enjoy playing with them. They are welcome to pay for the R&D.

  • I was eager to see more and more electric vehicles on the market so that competition will drive the price down. I myself have ordered a Cadillac Lyriq at a possible price of 65K. The order will be fulfilled sometimes this summer, only then I'll know how much the dealer wants from me. With the scarcity of EV and the short supply of vehicles nowadays, I can expect that car to be offered above 70K. In the future, I'd like to see such a car to be around 50K.

    • If its anything like the lightning, you wont be able to get it for less than 100 grand. I saw a Lightning in the showroom, 80-something sticker price, plus a HUGE dealer markup making it over 100 grand.

      When I see those, I wonder why someone would spend $100,000+ on an F150 of all things. If you have that sort of money, why not get a top of the line F350? Or a really high end sports car? Or half a house?

      • When I see those, I wonder why someone would spend $100,000+ on an F150 of all things. If you have that sort of money, why not get a top of the line F350?

        The F350 isn't offered as an EV. People buying the Lightning want an EV.

        Or a really high end sports car? Or half a house?

        You need half a house to go with this doorknob.

  • So my paid-for 2016 Nissan Frontier w/trailer can/will run circles around the overpriced F-150 Lightning in towing/distance for years to come !! I'm happy !

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