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Transportation Power Technology

New Electric Cars Have Problems In Latest Consumer Reports Survey (autoblog.com) 140

Posted by BeauHD from the called-out dept.
schwit1 shares a report from Autoblog, adding: "And CR decides to predict poor reliability on EVs it hasn't even evaluated yet." From the report: The latest auto survey from Consumer Reports shows several newer electric cars to be beset with problems, contradicting the conventional wisdom that EVs with their simpler powertrains should have fewer issues than gasoline- or diesel-powered cars. The CR reader survey harvested data on some 329,000 vehicles and specifically calls out the Audi E-Tron, the Kia Niro EV, and the Tesla Model Y.

The E-Tron is dinged for "drive-system electrical failures along with other power-equipment issues." The Niro EV's problems reportedly included electric-motor bearing failure. The Tesla suffers a panoply of build-quality issues include misaligned body panels and poor paint quality. Both Audi and Kia claimed to be aware of the issues. For now, though, CR has removed the E-Tron and the Niro EV from its Recommended list (which is based on vehicle test results as well as reliability). The Model Y was not on the Recommended list. CR notes that some older, less-complicated EVs did well in the reliability survey, including the Chevrolet Bolt and the Nissan Leaf. More controversially, as a result of this latest survey's findings, Consumer Reports has decided to downgrade the predicted reliability of several new EVs that were not even included in the survey, including the Ford Mustang Mach-E, the Mercedes-Benz EQC, and the Porsche Taycan.

"Often, it's not the EV tech that's problematic," says Anita Lam, CR's associate director of automotive data integration. "It's all the other new technology that could show up on any car -- new infotainment systems, more sophisticated power equipment and gadgets -- that often gets put on new EVs to feed a perception that they're supposed to be luxurious and high-tech."
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New Electric Cars Have Problems In Latest Consumer Reports Survey More

New Electric Cars Have Problems In Latest Consumer Reports Survey

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  • Tesla Issues (Score:5, Informative)

    by WankerWeasel ( 875277 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @07:56PM (#60787808)
    Every Tesla has always had paint and body panel gap issues. They're horrid. Thin and orange peel paint from the factory. Panel gaps all over the place. Professional detailer friend hates having to deal with them because the paint is garbage from the start and there's only so much you can do when you're working with crap.

    • And... (from TFS) :

      The Tesla suffers a panoply of build-quality issues include misaligned body panels and poor paint quality.

      There aren't really EV issues, but general quality issues that could affect any vehicle.

      • Very true. They're not related to the fact it's electric, as the issues with the other vehicles mentioned are. They're related to either cost cutting efforts and attempts to speed up production or poor workmanship.

      • Part of the reason why the real "could truly replace your gas car" EVs are all in the luxury segment is to support the cost of the batteries. To exist in that segment, though, you need to include a bunch of whiz-bang features. But since so much of the sticker price goes into the battery, there's not much left to do a good job on those features, let alone spend extra labor on fit and finish.

        So, there exist luxury cars which are poorly built or unreliable, but there are systemic reasons why a greater proporti

        • At least with Tesla, there's probably more than a little Dunning-Kruger effect when it comes to low-tech stuff like bodywork and paint. Underestimating the engineering involved in making, painting and fitting body panels consistently and reliably. Detroit's had close to a century and millions of vehicles worth of experience.

          I know this was an issue even for the Big 3 in the 1970s, if but you look at the exotic sheet metal shapes used in the 1950s its kind of amazing they were able to turn that out back th

      • Any car from a company learning how to build cars (Score:5, Interesting)

        by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @09:54PM (#60788156) Journal

        Elon Musk has been very clear that trying to learn how to manufacture cars has been "hell". I think he's used the term "quality control hell". These kinds of things will happen with any new manufacturer that is trying to learn how to manufacture millions of cars.

        Tesla has been around for a few years as an R&D company.
        They don't yet know how to make millions of cars, with reliable quality control. Heck, they don't even have their procurement process at the level of "reasonable for a mid-size company" yet - they are making runs to the mobile home parts store to hack together battery hold-downs from foam trim.

        If you have 70+ years of constantly refining your process, like Toyota, you've taken care of most of the problems. If Tesla does a good job of constantly improving, in 70 years their quality will be on par with Toyota.

        These same considerations apply, to a lesser extent, to a new factory producing a new car, run by an established car company.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by RobinH ( 124750 )
          Yes, I work in the auto industry, and I can tell you that when we ship a part that's 0.010 inches out of tolerance, even if it was probably a functional part, all hell breaks loose. Huge lengthy meetings, root cause analysis, 200% inspection of all existing inventory, and quality containment of all new product for some length of time after the root cause has been fixed. The auto industry takes quality seriously, and yes, much of this culture started with Toyota. That doesn't mean we never make a bad part

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        There aren't really EV issues, but general quality issues that could affect any vehicle.

        Very few of the issues encountered are exclusive to EVs - they can afflict ICE vehicles too.

        It's just that EVs seem to have brought back all the problems we thought were long gone on even the cheapest econobox. I mean, panel gaps and paint issues are solved issues.

        Granted, ICE vehicles have their own issues, but they generally are ICE exclusive issues such as transmission failures and other things. Low quality ICE vehicl

        • It's just that EVs seem to have brought back all the problems we thought were long gone on even the cheapest econobox. I mean, panel gaps and paint issues are solved issues.

          Someone else pointed out that these tend to be issues with new car companies, which applies to Tesla. They're going through the general car-making learning curve that the older companies went through a long time ago.

    • The problem with the paint is not fixable short of a completely new paint shop at Tesla's Fremont factory. Once a paint shop is dirty, it is gone and nothing to save it.

      A new paint shop costs about half a billion dollars. One can understand (but might not accept) why Tesla might balk at investing that much money into a cosmetic improvement, especially one that is making most of their revenue right now.

      Tesla is reportedly building a new paint shop in Fremont, so hopefully at least _some_ cars out of that fac

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by sinij ( 911942 )
        Can you elaborate on your "Once a paint shop is dirty" comment? What is it contaminated with that cannot be cleaned?

    • Every Tesla has always had paint and body panel gap issues.

      The early S had paint and body panel gap issues. In the past several years they've gotten better, not a good as other cars but still more than acceptable. The Model Y on the other hand is in a league of its own with issues and is called out especially for this reason. The Model S and Model 3 are still recommended.

      • Their current body and paint would be acceptable on a $20k vehicle, not ones that cost $100k.

        • If you buy cars based on their paint then more power to you. The car could come without paint at all and if I had the $100k I'd still buy a Tesla Plaid model.

          • Paint is part of that price, as it is with any car. When you buy a Porsche, you get good paint. When you buy a Ferrari, you get good paint. Why in the world are you making excuses for them including garbage paint with a premium priced vehicle? Take Elon's balls out of your mouth.

  • ""Often, it's not the EV tech that's problematic," says Anita Lam, CR's associate director of automotive data integration. "It's all the other new technology that could show up on any car -- new infotainment systems, more sophisticated power equipment and gadgets -- that often gets put on new EVs to feed a perception that they're supposed to be luxurious and high-tech.""

    Where's Hitler when you need him to design a car? I'm waiting for the EV version of the original VW beetle. Axe anything sophisticated, KIS

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 )

      Where's Hitler when you need him to design a car?

      Playing golf and whinging about things that didn't happen.

    • While I agree with you in principle (not about Hitler, but the KISS part), it wont happen.

      Marketing and sales are all about how to differentiate cars from others. Those features are what drive profits. Profits is what drives the car industry. What I mean is that they take a $100 screen and box, and put some software, and now it is $2000 infotainment system. $1900 of pure profit. They can sell the software and update last years model car as it has the same screen and box, but nope, new car to get that n

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Kisai ( 213879 )

        In all honestly, what people want fall in to exactly three categories, and you can only please two.

        Luxury - People who want all the shinies
        Cheap - People who just want a car, and would take a manual transmission, no cruise control, and no air conditioning before they would spend a penny on anything
        Good - People who just want a daily driver and will take the first thing on the lot that their can fit their butt and head in.

        So if you make every feature standard, it will never be cheap, and thus you are competi

      • Not in the US maybe - but it's already happening in China. Have you seen Sandy Munro's review of the cheapest electric car in the world? $900, and enough build quality to blow him away at the price. Pack that baby with some (eventually) cheap lithium cells instead of lead-acid, and a more powerful motor, and it'd be... well, probably downright dangerous at the speeds it could reach without a limiter, but quite compelling for an around-town car. Basically a fully enclosed golf cart. There's also several

        • The Changli is impressive for a grand but it's basically a golf cart and not really adequate for daily driving. On the other hand I just saw this review of the Kandi K27 which is a perfectly normal car under 10 grand (with credits):

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrVGTzM81L8

          It's slow as hell and the range is limited but it's a real car even though I'm sure it feels very cheap inside. It's something that would be perfect for my parents for example to get around town, go shopping, etc.

    • Re:Where's Hitler when you need him to design a ca (Score:4, Interesting)

      by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @09:00PM (#60787990)
      "CR notes that some older, less-complicated EVs did well in the reliability survey, including the Chevrolet Bolt and the Nissan Leaf."

      Those are your Beetles

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by hipp5 ( 1635263 )

        "CR notes that some older, less-complicated EVs did well in the reliability survey, including the Chevrolet Bolt and the Nissan Leaf."

        Those are your Beetles

        Problem is, they cost pretty much as much as the "fancy" EVs because it's the EV part that actually costs money to manufacture. The Bolt is a US$37,000 EV with the feel of a US$17,000 Sonic. That's a hard pill to swallow. But if a manufacturer bolts on a nice interior and infotainment system it makes the car feel much fancier without adding much to the cost.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Ksevio ( 865461 )

        I drive a Chevy Bolt and while it's not as sexy as a Tesla, it has the reliability from an experienced car company. In 3 years I've just needed tires, wipers, and wiper fluid

  • Modern ICE engines are good for 200K+ miles if you just change the oil every 8K miles, change the air filter every 50K miles, and flush the radiator every 100K miles. They are nearly bulletproof these days. Most failures are like with the EVs - electronics, body-related issues, suspensions (which all cars still have).

    • I don't know, I've had two vehicles have serious drivetrain issues that were less than 100k miles and well maintained:

      Fuel Pump failed
      Oxygen Sensor failed
      Automatic Transmission clutch failed

      A few thousand dollars all told. Not to mention 8k mile oil changes over 200k miles is $500+ in repairs.

      • Diesel Mazda CX5s were so sketchy that Mazda gave us a brand new engine at 60,000 miles fitted for free because it had been log book serviced the entire time. Probably $20,000AUD worth (dealer reckoned $25K)

        Pretty sure the ACCC would have forced their hand if they didn't, but being pro-active sure bought them $20k of good will for something that cost them maybe $5k...

      • Anecdote is not data. Obviously ICE parts fail but so do EV components. Tesla famously had a decent amount of issues with their drive units.

  • Not surprising at all: Its almost always possible to trade cost for reliability. Its not clear yet where that balance is between electric and IC cars on total vehicle cost.

    There is a general belief that complex mechanical systems are less reliable than electronics ones, but its not necessarily true in practice. The markets have been different - cars are typically operated for ~20 year lifetimes, but consumer electronics expect shorter operating lifetimes.

  • Leave it to CR... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Rei ( 128717 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @08:14PM (#60787862) Homepage

    ... to mark cars down for paint on a reliability survey. "Paint reliability", really? But I guess it's understandable. I mean, the other day I was driving down the road and my paint just spontaneously failed and the car swerved into a ditch.

    (And for what it matters: the amount of paint defects you find on a new car is directly in proportion to how closely you scour the car looking for paint defects. Bring a brand-new six figure car into a detailer and ask them to point out paint imperfections for you. They'll find them.)

    This is, of course, Consumer Reports, the group who recently made a video talking about Autopilot failures, where you can clearly see on the screen that on half the time they're calling things Autopilot failures, Autopilot isn't even on.

    • Re:Leave it to CR... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by iggymanz ( 596061 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @09:11PM (#60788018)

      it IS reliability problem here in midwest, problems with paint lead to problems with rust which can cause all manner of failures... and even getting wet when it rains or snows.

      I definitely would want to know of car with paint issues.

      • Can you elaborate? I'd love to know what painted parts are critical to the mechanical operation of your car...

        • Window/door seals - i'm currently dealing with paint peel/rust at my windshield (in addition to other spots on the roof damaged by hail). Mine isn't bad yet, but a friend of mine had a van that leaked water under the paint past the windshield seal.
        • More specifically, while not mechanical, once you start to get water running into your dashboard on a regular basis, it can cause various electrical issues (which will put a car out of service just the same).

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dryeo ( 100693 )

          Cab mounts rusting out are pretty scary. I'd imagine on a uni-body, any part that the suspension is attached to. Had to junk a truck where the only major problem was the front shock/spring mount rusted out. Rest of the truck was solid.
          I've also had leaky vehicles from rust (even the window shield area) where the amount of condensation made for very bad visibility.

        • I'd love to know what painted parts are critical to the mechanical operation of your car...

          The unibody, to which all other parts are attached.

          The subframe, which attaches the powertrain to the engine. Likewise the transmission mounts, on most vehicles (though they are increasingly commonly made out of cast Al.)

          Suspension links. These days many are made out of cast aluminum, but some are still made out of stamped steel.

          Brackets which hold parts in place.

          The wheels, if they're steel, which they still are on most base models.

      • problems with paint lead to problems with rust which can cause all manner of failures

        For example?

        • Read the replies to ArchieBunker's comment immediately above yours - I mention water leakage under paint that interfaces with door/window seals, but others mentioned quite a few things I hadn't thought of.
    • Remember when CR recommended against iPhones year after year? I do not have those actual ratings right now. But I feel like they kept recommending RIM Blackberry phones over iPhones. Meanwhile RIM all but died and Apple became the most valuable company company in the world. CR totally fubared that one too.

      • Re:Leave it to CR... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by uncqual ( 836337 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @10:25PM (#60788236)

        The quality, functionality security, reliability, and cost effectiveness of a product often has little to do with the success of the company producing it. Superior marketing hype can make a mediocre product successful while superior products with mediocre marketing fail.

        • I had both an iPhone4 and a Blackberry at the same time. For me the iPhone was revolutionary where as the Blackberry only had a good keyboard. Blackberry lost because apple moved the chains. Consumer Reports failed to see that apple had moved the chains. RIM did have good quality. But that quality was yesterday's product. Apple created a product that was more useful.

    • ... to mark cars down for paint on a reliability survey. "Paint reliability", really?

      Just as with computer system reliability, reliability is defined in terms of a specified functionality and failure of that functionality. Restricting car functionality as getting from Point A to Point B is a very low standard for a modern car, even a low-end, cheap car. Comfort, appearance, in-car entertainment, these are all things that people pay a lot of money for. Yes, they should be considered as functionality that contributes to reliability.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Rei ( 128717 )

        You know very well that that's not what people interpret a low score on a reliability test as meaning. If someone sees, "Car X is unreliable", they think the motor is likely to break or whatnot. Not, "someone with a magnifying glass found a paint defect on the inside of their hood behind a hinge when picking their car up at delivery".

        • You know very well that that's not what people interpret a low score on a reliability test as meaning. If someone sees, "Car X is unreliable", they think the motor is likely to break or whatnot. Not, "someone with a magnifying glass found a paint defect on the inside of their hood behind a hinge when picking their car up at delivery".

          No, most people would consider a car with doors that don't always open or close properly as unreliable. If the heater doesn't work, it's unreliable. Just as with computing systems, what the common person would consider for reliability depends on what their expectations are for a working car, and those expectations are not limited to just having a motor that starts.

      • "Yes, they should be considered as functionality that contributes to reliability." not for most peoples understanding of reliability, mine is the car always starts, gets me from A to B and back to A again without breaking down. Constant non-dictionary redefinition of words by marketing depts etc will eventually make communication more and more difficult

    • My Honda Civic has a problem with peeling paint. This is unsightly and reduces the value of the car, if I were to try to sell it. That means lost money to me, since I either have to pay to fix the paint problem, or give a potential buyer leverage to lower their offer because the car doesn't look as good as it should. So paint is not a safety issue, but it certainly is a reliability issue that costs real money to fix!

    • Consumer Reports reliability ratings are based on surveys submitted by their members. If the survey is reporting reliability issues, it’s because a significant number of Tesla owners participating in the survey reported those issues.

    • Look as an owner of 2 different teslas (2013 MS and 2018 MX), I have to agree with CR.
      We are happy with both of these cars (though we did trade the MS for the MX), however, Tesla always has issues on production line start-ups. This has been true of EVERY SINGLE MODEL. In addition, we both know (in fact, we all know) the paint setup in CA is in bad shape. Hopefully, when Berlin is up and running and proving that their paint job improves, then Tesla will quickly improve freemont.

      As far as I can see, the ON

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Rei ( 128717 )

        I can't speak for a 2013 MS or a 2018 MX, but I have a 2019 Model 3, and my paint was flawless at delivery.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Rei ( 128717 )

          (At least as far as I could tell. But I'm sure if I had brought someone with enough time and enough OCD, they could have found something)

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        It takes them a long time to run the tests and they have to use a specific version of the software, not allowing it to update during the test cycle. Since Tesla does regular software updates they are always going to be behind.

        Other manufacturers do updates but they tend not to affect the performance of their autopilot systems.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by havana9 ( 101033 )
      Paint problems could cause corrosion and carbody failure. Fiat and Lancia in the 70 had these problems a lot. There was a Lancia Beta rust scandal in UK, but also 126,127 and Ritmo model had a lot of problems. There are more older 1960s 500 rather than 126 for this very motive, 126 lost roadworthiness due to rust forming underside and were scrapped. Old 500 were more rustproof and survived better.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Unfortunately it seems that the CR report is not public, only an article about it which skims over the issues they found.

      I would assume that they raised problems like the missing parts from the Model Y suspension, or the use of Home Depot plastic coving to hold parts of the car in place. Checking forums like TMC there are numerous threads about quality issues, not paint or fit related.

      The NHTSA is considering a recall for the MCU failure issues which Tesla has been forced to cover under warranty. To be fair

      • I would assume that they raised problems like the missing parts from the Model Y suspension, or the use of Home Depot plastic coving to hold parts of the car in place.

        If the plastic from home despot doesn't fail, it's not a reliability problem. Continually bringing that up without some evidence that it's relevant is tiresome.

        What I'm saying is that there are genuine, serious reliability problems, it's not just cosmetics.

        So why bring up cosmetics?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          It might take time to fail, years possible, but still fail. It's consumer home grade material, I have serious doubts about how long it will last in an automotive environment.

          And in any case if I was paying that much for a vehicle I'd want to know that the proper parts I paid for have been used and it's not been bodged. Who knows what else they didn't do right.

          • It's consumer home grade material, I have serious doubts about how long it will last in an automotive environment.

            Homes are expected to last longer than automobiles. Coping is frequently exposed to sunlight.

            And in any case if I was paying that much for a vehicle I'd want to know that the proper parts I paid for have been used and it's not been bodged. Who knows what else they didn't do right.

            Yeah, I'd be worried about the suspension, not the plastic bullshit. Engineered plastic pieces often break anyway.

    • ... to mark cars down for paint on a reliability survey. "Paint reliability", really? But I guess it's understandable. I mean, the other day I was driving down the road and my paint just spontaneously failed and the car swerved into a ditch.

      A reliability problem isn't related to "will this kill me". A reliability problem is "Am I going to talk to the vendor about it". Yes paint absolutely is a reliability issue.

  • 1) A Tesla Model 3. No problems.
    2) A Nissan Lean. No problems.
    3) A Ford transit wagon. Had to call the AAA three times. (bring on the alcoholism jokes).

    • 3) A Ford transit wagon. Had to call the AAA three times. (bring on the alcoholism jokes).

      Are you saying the repeated issues caused you to fall off the wagon?

      • 3) A Ford transit wagon. Had to call the AAA three times. (bring on the alcoholism jokes).

        Are you saying the repeated issues caused you to fall off the wagon?

        So much so that I ordered a cybertruck to replace the Ford.

    • Did you get the M3 at the very start of the production cycle? I am guessing no. We had a 2013 85 MS. Loved it. However, we had issues, such as the motor/drive train was replaced. Even with our MX, I have seen some weird things esp. with the FWDs. We have gone out to the garage and seen one of the FWDs open. Very weird. Not sure if it is the car, or our FOB.
    • Consumer Reports' reliability ratings are based on problems reported by their 7 million subscribers in their annual product reliability survey. If they're flagging these cars as having reliability problems, it's because the percentage of owners reporting a particular problem is (1) higher for that car model than for other models, and (2) enough subscribers who owned that model completed the survey so that the difference is statistically significant.

      I will trust CR's data on this one over your anecdotal

  • Electrical problems (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Kernel Kurtz ( 182424 ) on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @08:59PM (#60787982)

    As someone with many decades being comfortable working on mechanical problems with my vehicles, electrical problems are always the things I have hated most.

    They still are, and I'm not sure if I really want a car made up entirely of them.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Overall there are far fewer things to go wrong and a lot less maintenance that needs doing. It's not like they are replacing all the parts of a fossil car with electronic versions, most of the drivetrain is eliminated.

    • An EV has a simpler electrical system than an ICEV. There are less sensors, actuators, etc. And while the motor controller[s] have higher power circuits than the PCM for an ICE, they are actually simpler, and the software is also simpler.

      I prefer electrical problems to other problems, because they tend to be less greasy. The only bummer is that you often have to remove body panels to get to wiring.

  • Toyota Prius Prime (Score:3)

    by denisbergeron ( 197036 ) <[DenisBergeron] [at] [yahoo.com]> on Wednesday December 02, 2020 @09:10PM (#60788014)

    Is not a EV, bu a Plug-In-hybrid.
    Every electronuc in this car is a pain in the ass.
    Toyota issue a patch every month.
    When I try it and choose it, I was thinking that a company that make hybrid car the last 20 or so years should be able to make better car.

    I rent it, I count the days..

    That was my first and last Toyota.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Valtor ( 34080 )

      I only kept my Prius Prime for less than a year and then I changed it for a model 3. The last drop for me was that the car would always start the gasoline engine in our cold Quebec's winter even if the battery was full and the car was exiting a heated garage.

      Toyota should have given us an option to heat the car using the battery whatever the temperature is.

    • If you had read the Toyota unintended acceleration software review report, you'd never want to get in another Toyota. Or, for that matter, walk in front of one in a crosswalk. They are tragically bad at software development, and every car runs on a whole lot of software now.

  • Consumer Reports is mostly criticizing these cars for initial problems. These are the sorts of things that get noticed in the first year and are repaired under warranty. Yeah, it sucks to have your new car in the shop for a week or two the first year, but this says nothing about the long-term reliability of the cars. If you're looking for a car to last ten years or longer, then with ICE cars, you'll get more problems the longer you own it, while with EVs, you'll have more problems up front, but then they

    • Are there really people that have the time to go testing every single function of their car during the time of the warranty?

    • I will disagree with you on this. The problems are indicative of issues that can negatively affect the car in the long run.
      I have over 80K miles on my Bolt EV. Biggest issue is the funky situation that can happen with the center display continuing to show the external camera for a few minutes after starting to drive.
      The single worst issue appears to have been caused by a level 3 charger that had issues. It put the car in parked mode and would not let it shift out. A reset got it out of that mode and let

    • Consumer Reports is mostly criticizing these cars for initial problems. These are the sorts of things that get noticed in the first year and are repaired under warranty. Yeah, it sucks to have your new car in the shop for a week or two the first year, but this says nothing about the long-term reliability of the cars. If you're looking for a car to last ten years or longer, then with ICE cars, you'll get more problems the longer you own it, while with EVs, you'll have more problems up front, but then they'll just keep going.

      Without that IC engine, EVs don't wear out.

      You heard it here first.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dryeo ( 100693 )

        Nice that the EV engine makes them rust proof. Most of my ICE vehicles have rusted away while still running great.

    • No one wants a warranty they have to repeatedly invoke.

      Sure, it’s better than no warranty at all... but that’s a low bar.

  • For a EV with a battery covered bottom, one would think it would be a solid tight cover. However the bumper has an opening, apparently enough to collect 32 pounds of mud:

    https://www.thedrive.com/news/... [thedrive.com]

    I really like what Tesla is trying to do, however rushing out new models without sufficient real world tests is starting to bite back.

  • CR has a long history of changing ratings. Way back in '94 I leased a Dodge Intrepid based partially upon a glowing CR rating, only to see CR severely downgrade the reliability just months later. WTF!

    Also, and this is just my opinion, I believe there was (is?) an anti sports car bias, especially if the vehicle didn't get good fuel mileage. Back when I used to subscribe, it was rare that any high powered vehicle would see a good rating.

    • They do flip- flop.

      I recall reading a review for an early to mid 70's SAAB. One negative remark was that the gas filler was on the passenger side which made it inconvenient to fill. A review a few years later noted positively that the filler was located on the passenger side making it safer if you needed to fill on the side of the road when you ran out. The car didn't change, they did.

  • The Audi and Niro break down and force you to walk while the Tesla drives on for a couple of hundred miles but a few snobs watching frown about the few thousands of an inch a body panel is misaligned.

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