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EU Power Transportation

Electric Car Sales Triple In Race To Meet Europe CO2 Rules (arstechnica.com) 167

Posted by BeauHD from the time-is-ticking dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: One in 10 new cars sold across Europe this year will be electric or plug-in hybrid, triple last year's sales levels after carmakers rolled out new models to meet emissions rules, according to projections from green policy group Transport & Environment. The market share of mostly electric cars will rise to 15 percent next year, the group forecasts, as carmakers across the continent race to cut their CO2 levels. The projections are based on sales data for the first half of the year, as well as expected increases as manufacturers scramble to comply with tightening restrictions in 2021.

Under the rules, carmakers must reduce the average emissions from their vehicles to 95g of CO2 per km or face fines that could run into billions of euros. In the first six months of the year, average emissions fell from 122g to 111g, the largest six-month drop in more than a decade. While five percent of the cars sold this year are excluded from the calculations, a concession from the EU to help carmakers ease into the new regime, every vehicle counts towards the total from next year. [...] Several carmakers are still lagging behind the new rules, according to T&E calculations, requiring a late spurt of electric sales, or the purchase of credits from a rival that has already exceeded the rules if they are to avoid large fines. The system allows those who have generated "credits" by selling pure electric cars or plug-in hybrids to sell them to rivals that are struggling to meet the rules. The value of credits falls over time.
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Electric Car Sales Triple In Race To Meet Europe CO2 Rules More

Electric Car Sales Triple In Race To Meet Europe CO2 Rules

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  • It's a mystery (Score:4, Insightful)

    by AlanObject ( 3603453 ) on Monday October 12, 2020 @07:31PM (#60601076)

    Driving my Model Y I often wonder why the vast majority of people seem to have to be forced into making a better decision for themselves.

    • I can pour just about any volatile flammable into my car's gas tank and get some degree of locomotion out of it. Also kind of hard to carry a battery back to a charging station if it runs out. Snark aside, electrics are certainly the way to go if you're willing to plan your journeys, and have access to the required infrastructure (getting better as time goes by)

      • That's likely true, at least once. But the repair to the fuel system afterward might dwarf the one-time utility.

      • "I can pour just about any volatile flammable into my car's gas tank and get some degree of locomotion out of it." Hey, I tried that once! My old VW bus ran out of gas on the SFOakland Bay bridge. Didn't have AAA roadside towing, but reached for the Coleman "white gas" camping fuel is what I did. It survived the rest of ride with noticeable "knock", but it worked. Now I'm a Tesla driver with no range anxiety whatsoever.

      • I can feed my horse grass (Score:4, Funny)

        by Brannon ( 221550 ) on Monday October 12, 2020 @10:12PM (#60601454)
        These "horseless carriages" that require special fuel are never going to catch on.

      • Re:It's a mystery (Score:5, Insightful)

        by cerberusss ( 660701 ) on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @12:22AM (#60601684) Journal

        Snark aside, electrics are certainly the way to go if you're willing to plan your journeys

        I'm using my Renault Zoe mainly for work, and my daily commute is 140 km (88 mi), which is usually considered higher than average. There's no range anxiety, nor any planning whatsoever.

        "Willing to plan your journeys" is not a huge consideration, in my opinion. When I look back on 4 years of driving this car, I've had to plan my journey maybe twice a year.

        But then again, maybe I live a boring life :D

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by shilly ( 142940 )

          It's such a good little car. I've now gone to a Zoe 50, and it's really excellent. You might want to join Renault Zoe Owners Club (RZOC), if you haven't already.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by DrXym ( 126579 )
          The car market needs a lot more Zoe priced vehicles.

        • Snark aside, electrics are certainly the way to go if you're willing to plan your journeys

          I'm using my Renault Zoe mainly for work, and my daily commute is 140 km (88 mi), which is usually considered higher than average. There's no range anxiety, nor any planning whatsoever.

          "Willing to plan your journeys" is not a huge consideration, in my opinion.

          I drive long distances semi-regularly, long enough that planning is required... but not by me. I get in the car (Tesla) and tell it where I'm going, and it figures out where I need to stop and charge. I suppose if I were driving far enough that I need to spend nights at hotels, I would want to do a little planning myself to make sure I pick hotels with chargers.

          But, I agree, in practice planning isn't really an issue.

        • Interesting, appreciate the anecdote. Reflecting on my general travels, there'd probably be 1-2 drives per month that would require a little forethought - occasionally need to drive some ~200 miles round trip without much time for stopover, which is still easily within reach of a few electrics. Most days probably 5-50 mi, and maybe 20-100 mi once a week. The price seems excellent for a bit over 100mi range, and would certainly be attractive to me as an in-town vehicle. Sadly, not available here in the US, n

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        The days of needing to plan are largely over in developed countries with half decent charging infrastructure. In any case many EVs have decent navigation systems that can do most of the work for you.

        Affordable EVs in the GBP 30k range will get you a solid 250 miles on the motorway, so it's actually extremely difficult to run out of energy.

      • if you're willing to plan your journeys

        That's funny because the only time I've ever had to "plan" a part of my journey is when driving a petrol vehicle which may or may not need a refill along the way. Comparatively I've never refilled an electric car mid journey, and pretty much every time I've gotten in it the battery has been full.

        If you're planning then you're either doing something wrong, or going on a seriously epic adventure which should really be planned out anyway ;-)

      • electrics are certainly the way to go if you're willing to plan your journeys

        While it may be true, I really don't get the thought process behind sentences like these. How many Priuses do you see kitted out as work vehicles for plumbers and electricians? When was the last time you saw a realtor driving someone around in an F-350s? No one says, "sedans are fine, so long as you're willing to rent a U-Haul to move", or, "convertibles are great if you're able to borrow a friend's truck for trips to Home Depot". Different vehicles are suited to different tasks, with most vehicles able to

        • It was definitely an overly broad statement, not taking into consideration the widely varying use cases. Also live in Texas (Houston suburbs). I do appreciate the insightful response, and am in overall agreement, though I'd like to single out this particular bit:

          When was the last time you saw a realtor driving someone around in an F-350s?

          F-350? Never, that I can recall (nor any 'dually'). F-250, Suburban, Excursion, Land Cruiser, Land Rover... somewhat often. Realtors I can give a pass to, as in Texas, many properties are rather rural, and something that can reliably make it out of

          • When was the last time you saw a realtor driving someone around in an F-350s?

            F-350? Never, that I can recall (nor any 'dually'). F-250, Suburban, Excursion, Land Cruiser, Land Rover... somewhat often.

            Hah, yeah, I hear you. I specifically picked the F-350 just because I have seen realtors in exactly the sorts of other vehicles you mentioned, what with it being Texas and all. Of course, the point I was trying to make was simply that we pick different vehicles for different use cases, so if you know that you'll be driving 500 miles every single day, a typical EV would likely not make much sense (yet?), in the same way that a Prius would make a poor work vehicle for a plumber, yet none of us dish on Priuses

            • In our case, we typically used the heavy duty ~60 gallon trash bags to line the trunk, and re-used them for yard waste, etc. In retrospect, it makes just as much sense, and only a few more bags, to just bag the bags... some of that mulch was quite... odorous. Definitely can't argue with a hose and/or broom (or leaf blower) for cleanup though.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mspohr ( 589790 )

        There are a lot more electric points than fossil fuel outlets. Electric grid is available just about everywhere.

    • Cost and holdover.. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ElectraFlarefire ( 698915 ) on Monday October 12, 2020 @08:18PM (#60601184) Journal

      Biggest reason? Cost..

      Yes, it works out cheaper over time, but EVs are still 1/3 to twice what you can get an equivalent car(This includes shopping around to find an functional equivalent from another manufacturer.)..
      Between that and the perceived range limitations(Something you get used to and isn't a problem after the first few weeks and will become less as fast charging spreads more and more EVs are on the road) it makes people hesitant..

      This method will make petrol/diesel cars more expensive over time and at the same time EV costs will come down so if you REALLY need 1000km of range and can refuel in 5 mins, you can get them, you'll just pay for that.. In the same way you pay a premium if you want to get a 7 seat minivan or a SUV instead of a little hatchback..

      I'm doing an EV conversion and it'll still cost me about AU$20k to do it all up and it'll only give me about 150km of range if I'm lucky.. And can get a brand new petrol car with a 500km range for that price.. Where the cheapest EV is about AU$40-50k.. (And Teslas are a LOT more, proper luxury car money)

      • i'm still not entirely sure why people who want to be frugal about cars or environmentalism don't just spend somewhere about $2000 - $3000 (freedom bux) on a late 90's or so geo or similar econobox.
        cheap, plentiful parts
        40+ MPG
        more than sufficient for daily driving

        the environmental impact on something like that has to be far, far lower than a newly minted car made out of the tears of minor miners and puppy dog tails. It doesn't look glamour, and lacks the green-washing street cred, but financially it would

        • It's also not just the cost of fuel, but also shedding of consumables(belts, break pads, clutch pads, etc) and frequent oil changes and other stuff.. This does balance against heavy EVs and their increased tyre wear.

          In my case, I'm taking a tiny car from the early 80's and making it into a fun and cheapish EV.
          Total kerb weight will be about 700-800kg.. And about for $2/100km of driving and near zero wear on any consumables.
          Service every 2-3 years should be 'change gearbox oil, check break pads and fluids'..

        • Probably because they don't want to pollute from the tail pipe or they like quiet but fast cars or they don't want the maintenance of an old car. Could be any number of reasons

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by DrXym ( 126579 )
        EV production costs have to drop (e.g. cheaper, higher density batteries), and punitive measures rise on the other side (e.g. taxation to fuel and engine capacity) for the savings to make economic sense.

        Tesla uses bait and switch on their website, showing the price of a Tesla which includes "savings" all the way through to checkout. And even with a very generous bullshit estimate (that every owner drives 10,000 miles in a day) the savings only work out to $4500 over 6 years that still doesn't close the pr

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by idji ( 984038 )
        You are also in a country foolishly providing no incentives to switch to e-cars, and punishing Tesla buyers with a luxury car tax.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Kernel Kurtz ( 182424 )

      Driving my Model Y I often wonder why the vast majority of people seem to have to be forced into making a better decision for themselves.

      Driving my Model Y I often wonder why the vast majority of people seem to have to be forced into making a better decision for themselves.

      The reason you wonder is apparently that you don't understand other people have different tastes and values from you.

      And if all Model Y owners are as arrogant and condescending that is sure to be a big turn off as well. I'll pass on being part of that club.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ahodgson ( 74077 )

      The vast majority of people can't spend $50K or more on a car.

    • Driving my Model Y I often wonder why the vast majority of people seem to have to be forced into making a better decision for themselves.

      I often wonder how some people can't imagine what life is like outside of their affluent bubble. The vast majority of people can't afford a car that starts at $50,000 and needs a parking place with an electric hookup.

    • The Model Y starts at $50k. The average price of a new car sold in the US is $36k. Not everyone can afford the same choice you made.
    • I have no way of charging at my apartment. This is a temporary problem, and will change in the future, but presently it's a major obstacle.

    • It's only a mystery when your horizon is limited (Score:5, Informative)

      by zazzel ( 98233 ) on Tuesday October 13, 2020 @02:12AM (#60601844)

      You see, people have different needs based on how and where they live.

      For example, we live in terraced houses, and there's only on-street parking available --> No way you could possibly charge an electric, the next 2x set of chargers (22kW) is about 300m from here (very close by local standards!), and it's always crowded (by an e-scooter company's electric trucks - the ones they use to collect all their electric scooters at night and charge them in a garage nearby... hey, the future!).

      Let's go back two weeks: We drove to family (SO's mother) to live & work from there for a week. Within 8 hours of arrival, our toddler became severely ill with respiratory symptoms (just like toddlers sometimes do!), and due to concerns for her and her grandmother's wellbeing (Covid-19?), we immediately drove home again to see our pediatrician at home.

      With any electric car, this would have been impossible, as their range is always less than twice the distance we need to see any part of family, and a simple wall outlet where any of our family lives only provides 2.3 kW for charging, leaving us with less than the needed range after a few hours of sleep. We would have had to find a *very fast* charging station on our way home, or opt for an ambulance, or see a foreign pediatrician - all with the risk of locking us in quarantine for 14 days, depending on the ever-changing corona rules.

      Then, charging is not cheap: With about 0.27 €/kWh at the very least, and about 18 kWh/100km on average (Tesla), it would have cost 4.86 €.

      Our BMW 330e (PHEV) consumes about 5.5 l/100km when no additional electricity is used, resulting in 6,60 €/100km - not a difference you would base a buying decision on (on Covid-terms, being reduced to 10000 km/year due to home office) it means about 130 € per year more than an electric would use.

      Also, it's significantly cheaper to lease than a Tesla 3 (about 70€/month). The only "economy" a PHEV or electric provides right now is reduced taxation for private use of company cars (like mine).

      • strange example. if my kid was "severely ill with respiratory symptoms" i'd taken him/her to the nearest hospital, sod the multiple hour drive home in which he could have died.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by DrXym ( 126579 )
      Wonder how much your car costs vs many other cars and the mystery will be solved. The cost of EVs is a major hurdle to adoption and will only be alleviated as the cost comes down and prohibitions in Europe and other regions start to affect the kind of vehicles that are manufactured and sold.
    • I'm sure the higher initial price and need to have a parking spot with a charger are big factors

    • One word: Price.

      A model 3 costs 50 000+ euros and my current car cost 9 000 euros.

    • Its very simple - there are more cars than people in this country and 60% of people live paycheck to paycheck. So gas cars are not going anywhere. It will take at least 40 years to get everyone to switch

  • US will be left behind again (Score:4, Interesting)

    by neaorin ( 982388 ) on Monday October 12, 2020 @10:50PM (#60601532)

    I find it a little ironic that, even though it was a US company who managed to prove the viability of electric cars, the US will be left in the dust by both China and Europe when it comes to EV adoption.

    • I find it a little ironic that, even though it was a US company who managed to prove the viability of electric cars, the US will be left in the dust by both China and Europe when it comes to EV adoption.

      It is unfortunate... but the current administration is unusually backward in it's thinking, and (one hopes) there's a good chance that'll change soon, in which case, the US should be well positioned to lead with now proven technology.

      • I find it a little ironic that, even though it was a US company who managed to prove the viability of electric cars, the US will be left in the dust by both China and Europe when it comes to EV adoption.

        It is unfortunate... but the current administration is unusually backward in it's thinking, and (one hopes) there's a good chance that'll change soon, in which case, the US should be well positioned to lead with now proven technology.

        Why is "adoption" in a free market the responsibility of the government? Let the consumers decide what they want and need. Some consumers are already choosing EV's. Others may choose them when the prices drop and the support infrastructure is in place.

        • Why is "adoption" in a free market the responsibility of the government? Let the consumers decide what they want and need. Some consumers are already choosing EV's. Others may choose them when the prices drop and the support infrastructure is in place.

          Because a free market will go for the cheapest option at any given time, but long-term that'll be bad for everyone due to the environmental impact.

          The current administration seem to indicate* that they would prefer to remove any regulations and allow local manufacturers to build inefficient vehicles, all with the idea that that will encourage more local production and less imports.
          * Starred because quite honestly, what this administration says and what they do, often do not agree. They say one thing to a

          • Why is "adoption" in a free market the responsibility of the government? Let the consumers decide what they want and need. Some consumers are already choosing EV's. Others may choose them when the prices drop and the support infrastructure is in place.

            Because a free market will go for the cheapest option at any given time, but long-term that'll be bad for everyone due to the environmental impact.

            The current administration seem to indicate* that they would prefer to remove any regulations and allow local manufacturers to build inefficient vehicles, all with the idea that that will encourage more local production and less imports.

            * Starred because quite honestly, what this administration says and what they do, often do not agree. They say one thing to appeal to voters but do something entirely different.

            Personally, I think once a good proportion of cars being sold are full-EVs, more people will at least ride in them, and they'll be less inclined to go back to ICE cars.

            I don't think "local production" is incompatible with "building EV's". But costs and infrastructure affect the demand greatly. There are many people who can't afford the high cost of new EV's and, even if they could , they have no place to park and charge them. This is not limited to poorer people but it certainly includes a lot of them. Whether they like these cars is irrelevant under these circumstances.

            The government is providing tax credits for EV purchases though: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/fe... [fueleconomy.gov]'

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Tesla made EVs desirable perhaps, but it was Nissan and Renault who proved they were viable. Teslas are still very expensive, for half what the cheapest Tesla costs you can get a Leaf and it's a decent car that will meet most people's needs.

      Nissan started building a charger network a couple of years before Tesla did too.

  • My (ex) bosses wife has a diesel/electric hybrid. I think it is a Volvo. My boss borrowed it, and gave me a lift into work. Electric all the way. The ICE will only cut in if you put your foot down, or run the battery down. This strikes me as a very reasonable interim measure, while there is still some "range anxiety" among car users. Commuting is particularly inefficient using an ICE, and contributes to serious pollution in cities. If the ICE only comes into effect on occasional longer motorway journeys, th

  • "Europeans force to buy new cars in order to comply with government regulations." AKA, Potemkin economics.

  • Unless you're lucky enough to have your own house, and the money to install the charging infrastructure, and/or a charging slot at work *for every employee EV* (Hint: these don't exist) then in most places in the EU you're SOL.
    Don't believe me? 76% of all EV charging points in the EU are located in just four countries, with 26% in one of the smallest, the Netherlands.
    So, what happens when everyone starts swapping to EVs? Remember, it's not just a case of installing a few power sockets in the street, the e

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by b0bby ( 201198 )

      I agree that the logistics of installing chargers is daunting, but since most EV charging can be done off peak, I don't think that most grids will need to be upgraded for quite some time.

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