Auto Industry TV Ads Claim Right To Repair Benefits 'Sexual Predators' (vice.com) 139
EmagGeek writes: A camera slowly stalks a woman walking to her SUV in a desolate, empty parking garage. "If question 1 passes in Massachusetts, anyone could access the most personal data stored in your vehicle," a narrator says. "Domestic violence advocates say a sexual predator could use the data to stalk their victims. Pinpoint exactly where you are. Whether you are alone ..." The woman's keys jingle as she approaches her car. The camera gets closer. The woman whips her head around. The stalker has found her. The screen flashes to black. "Vote NO on 1," the narrator says. The Alliance for Automotive Innovation, which represents nearly every major auto manufacturer in the United States, is funding this and a series of other TV ads like it to scare Massachusetts residents into voting against a ballot measure that would expand the state's already existing right to repair law to ensure that you can continue to get your car fixed by anyone you want. The ads heavily imply -- and at times state outright -- that the legislation would somehow lead women to be stalked and sexually assaulted, a charge that cybersecurity experts say has no grounding in reality. Instead, the auto industry wants to ensure that when your car breaks, you have to take it to a manufacturer "authorized" mechanic or the dealer itself.
The legislation is an update to an already-existing law passed by Massachusetts voters in 2012 that has become a national standard for auto repair and a model piece of legislation for other right to repair bills that would make it easier to fix all sorts of electronics. The 2012 law enshrines the ability for independent mechanics (meaning, anyone who is not a car dealer) to repair the vast majority of cars, because it requires manufacturers to use a nonproprietary diagnostic interface to diagnose problems. This means that anyone can buy an OBD reader (called a "scanner," a "dongle," a "computer"), hook it up to a port beneath their steering wheel, and determine what's wrong with their car. The law also makes repair information available to independent repair professionals. Question 1 seeks to close a loophole in that earlier law, which exempted cars that transmitted this data wirelessly. As cars become even more computerized, independent repair shops are worried that manufacturers will do away with the OBD port and will store this data wirelessly, exempting them from the earlier law. The new initiative simply guarantees that car owners and independent repair companies can access this data wirelessly without "authorization by the manufacturer," and requires car manufacturers to store this data in a secure, "standardized, open-access platform."
The legislation is an update to an already-existing law passed by Massachusetts voters in 2012 that has become a national standard for auto repair and a model piece of legislation for other right to repair bills that would make it easier to fix all sorts of electronics. The 2012 law enshrines the ability for independent mechanics (meaning, anyone who is not a car dealer) to repair the vast majority of cars, because it requires manufacturers to use a nonproprietary diagnostic interface to diagnose problems. This means that anyone can buy an OBD reader (called a "scanner," a "dongle," a "computer"), hook it up to a port beneath their steering wheel, and determine what's wrong with their car. The law also makes repair information available to independent repair professionals. Question 1 seeks to close a loophole in that earlier law, which exempted cars that transmitted this data wirelessly. As cars become even more computerized, independent repair shops are worried that manufacturers will do away with the OBD port and will store this data wirelessly, exempting them from the earlier law. The new initiative simply guarantees that car owners and independent repair companies can access this data wirelessly without "authorization by the manufacturer," and requires car manufacturers to store this data in a secure, "standardized, open-access platform."
Obviously also aids the four horsemen... (Score:4, Interesting)
... of the infocalypse. Because anything bad for profits does, right? So expect terrorists, drug dealers, pedophiles and organized crime to also benefit from right to repair legislation soon.
In other news, some advertising people and their customers have no shame, no honor, and no integrity.
Re:Obviously also aids the four horsemen... (Score:5, Insightful)
To be fair, did anyone in advertising claim to have integrity, shame, or honor?
I'm pretty sure you are highly encouraged to jettison those qualities during your internship.
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Actually, you have to sell them to pay for your training.
In America, the poor can't afford ethics, and the rich can afford not to have ethics.
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They pull the emotional string (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:They pull the emotional string (Score:4, Interesting)
I say turn it around. By moving to wireless as an end-run around the existing law, the auto industry is helping sexual predators and stalkers. Obviously they're fine with that as long as they get to continue to screw you with high repair costs.
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Concise and incisive, and better than my verbose comment (far below). Too bad I have no mod points for you, but so far no one does. (Currently appears to be the first comment that deserves favorable moderation.)
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A couple of decades ago a law was put to our state ballot to solve gerrymandering by having a committee of retired judges draw boundaries. The judges were to be selected by a kind of lottery.
The ad against it said, "Do you really want a smokey room full of unelected cronies drawing the boundaries?" The ad showed a bunch of cigar smoking, grinning old men drawing on a map and joking around. I think that dogs-playing-poker poster was in the background.
What they didn't state is that the current state of affair
If companies weren't already TRACKING EVERYTHING (Score:5, Insightful)
If companies weren't already TRACKING EVERYTHING you do then there wouldn't be all that TRACKING DATA stored in your car for repairmen to steal. So outlaw corporations and government tracking you without a proper judicial warrant based on existing information that your are likely a criminal. Allow me to repair or have repaired by my choice of repairmen MY OWN DAMN PROPERTY. Don't allow corporations to claim ownership rights over what they SOLD TO YOU. DAMN AUTHORITARIAN ASSHOLES!
Re:If companies weren't already TRACKING EVERYTHIN (Score:5, Insightful)
The logical question to this ad would be exactly that: why is my car tracking all the places I drive it, forever? What is that data being used for, and by whom?
However, this ad is crafted to create an emotional fear response, not a response of logic and reason. No one in the auto industry wants people asking the logical and reasonable questions.
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If companies weren't already TRACKING EVERYTHING you do then there wouldn't be all that TRACKING DATA stored in your car for repairmen to steal. So outlaw corporations and government tracking you without a proper judicial warrant based on existing information that your are likely a criminal. Allow me to repair or have repaired by my choice of repairmen MY OWN DAMN PROPERTY. Don't allow corporations to claim ownership rights over what they SOLD TO YOU. DAMN AUTHORITARIAN ASSHOLES!
Just responding to raise the profile of this post - it's currently only at '1' and I have no mod points left.
A Page Torn from Cap'n Jack's Playbook (Score:4, Interesting)
These guys have nothing on Jack Valenti, legendary Hollywood mouthpiece who when testifying before congress infamously gushed, "I say to you that the VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone." I mean really, with these copyright cartels danger is always lurking for women or kids. Ideally both if they can work it into a sound bite. Can't beat 'em for scares, but shame? They don't know the meaning of the word.
- js.
So data is plain text? (Score:5, Insightful)
Beyond that, this is like the stranger danger farce. Teaching kids to fear strangers, instead of just avoiding them, protects against maybe 10% of child abductions. Sexual Assault is not so skewed, but about 75% of victims know the perpetrator.
Again if the issue with automobile computers is that anyone who has access to the car can gain personal information, that means that the pervert at your office, or the pervert in your complex, has hours, all day, all night, to break in and plan the best place to rape.
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The proposed change in the law would require a system whereby a vehicle owner must approve of access by a mechanic. They leave the manufacturers a lot of leeway as to how to achieve that. It does demand that this functionality be available through a mobile device which... well I'm pessimistic about mobile app security, but considering people use apps with their banks and home security systems, is no worse than par for the industry.
It could result in lawsuits if the automakers are negligent in picking a go
Re:So data is plain text? (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course, the auto industry could just avoid the whole problem by not using wireless access as a way to end-run the existing legislation protecting consumer access through the wired data ports. They opened the hole in the first place and they can close it just by not trying to prevent the right to repair. They're the ones who created the stalker/predator danger in the first place.
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They could, and I'm not going to argue against the conjecture that avoiding right-to-repair was the primary reason they went wireless. It well could be.
But I think the side-benefits to the manufacturers in early identification of defects can speed up the recall process, and the performance data can inform the design process for future models... those now have probably demonstrated their utility and wireless telemetry is here to stay. I'm not one to make blanket statements about nothing wireless being secu
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... Anyone can get your car data because it is probably stored in plaintext. There is no reason a mechanic needs or should be able to get this information. The auto manufacturers are clearly being negligent.
Anyone can get your car data onlybecause it is collected in the first place. There is no reason for this information to be collected. The auto manufacturers are clearly being slimy greedy creeps.
FTFY
Re: So data is plain text? (Score:3)
Re:So data is plain text? (Score:5, Interesting)
> Teaching kids to fear strangers, instead of just avoiding them, protects against maybe 10% of child abductions.
Actually, no. It's complex, but "Stranger Danger" training creates antisocial kids and increases vulnerability to being groomed, molested, and abducted. It's a net negative from what paranoid parents expect. Teach your kids to be outgoing and skeptical.
Just mandate that this type data has to be wired.. (Score:4, Insightful)
False advertisement (Score:4, Interesting)
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Isn't there a Better Business Bureau or some such tasked with suing companies for false advertisement
The sole purpose of the Better Business Bureau is to shake down companies to pay for an endorsement which is not worth the paper or electrons on which its printed.
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I've had quite a bit of luck getting cooperation from companies who fraudulently billed or otherwise bilked me. Filing a BBB complaint gets their attention.
Chargebacks also work.
I just wasted my lunch today, on the phone with an insurance company who has been trying to simultaneously bill me for 8 months of coverage while also claiming my account was closed, per my request, 8 months ago.
And yet, I have the bill in front of me.
The manufacturers ... (Score:4)
Re:The manufacturers ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm disgusted that they would exploit the victims of sexual assualt to justify their own invasive surveillance (not to mention thumbing their noses at first sale doctrine).
That ad campaign is wrong on so many levels; how does this shit even pass muster?
Very contemporary (Score:4, Insightful)
This to me sounds very much like what is going on with Epic Games and Apple.
In this case, Apple is represented by the Alliance for Automotive Innovation that wants to force consumers that bought their cars to use only their services or services "authorized" by them (authorized meaning a 30% cut). Massachusetts wants to make sure that other services, i.e. Epic Games, can also offer services to the consumer without needing "authorization". Sounds like Massachusetts is doing a good job trying to prevent a monopoly situation returning. I wonder if car analogies are allowed in a court room.
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Restricting all of us, to protect against the worst of us!
No thanks - not a bargain I'm interested in.
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You have it twisted up. The auto industry wants to restrict us all to protect the worst of us: them.
Instead of worrying about a hypothetical stalker, why don't we address the existing, known stalkers?
Super Bad Metaphor (Score:2)
Apple is represented by the Alliance for Automotive Innovation
This is a very bad metaphor, because Apple is not the entire smartphone industry - it's not even a majority of the industry.
It's like ONE auto maker saying they wanted to build a very advanced car and some things people just might not be able to repair. With the rest of the industry and car consumers free to do what they like with other models.
Even then it's a bad metaphor since Apple does allow third party repair.
And we all know.... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Here is a crazy thought (Score:5, Insightful)
Here is a crazy thought..maybe my vehicle should not store personal data that isn't obvious and delete-able by the user, like say your in-dash-gps favorites.
Maybe automakers should be required to provide a big red button - "erase all data"
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Wirelessly? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Wirelessly? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's how it used to work. Then the auto makers went wireless as an end run around legislation that they had to let consumers and 3rd party repair people freely access that wired data.
The auto industry created the very threat the ad warns about.
Well that's creative (Score:2)
Those slimy admen earned their paychecks on this one.
Of course a locked-down device is easier to use for slightly different and, in the big picture, arguably worse sorts of spying and control, and most devices could be hacked by a determined psycho regardless of how locked-down they are, but points for emotional impact and not being technically wrong.
What personal data? (Score:5, Insightful)
One of the best adverts I ever saw (Score:2)
Turns out it was just a prop to ban net metering so the local power company didn't have to pay people for excess power generated by solar. It passed. By a wide margin. Even though polls showed it was very unpopular...
These adverts usually target the
Wow. Just... Wow. (Score:2)
Can you even begin to imagine how screwed up a world we would have to live in for people to take the time to learn automotive repair (and possibly buy tens of thousands of dollars in equipment, rent/buy/build a repair garage, and advertise broadly enough to get people into their establishment) just so that they can find women to rape, rather than spending three minutes and twenty cents' worth of gasoline to drive over to the nearest shopping mall or local college?
To be fair, if this whole coronavirus thing
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If I were a stalking rapist, hypothetically, and I wanted to know where my specific target was heading, I would think it much easier to track their phone than than hack their car.
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And even if you wanted to track the person's car, you'd do it with a cellular GPS tracker, not by hacking the car in some bizarre way. It's like they tried to come up with the least plausible idea for what a bad person could do while repairing a car, and made that their main point. It's not even a straw man — more like a cardboard cutout of a straw man.
Ask to see the certification program (Score:2)
Ask to see the certification program that ensures that all of the manufacturer authorized repair shops and dealership mechanics aren't capable of being sexual predators. Then let the manufacturers and dealerships know that if they get their way with this initiative, they are now liable for any sexual predator offenses committed by anyone connected to them.
I suspect that they have absolutely no certification program, nor would they accept any liability whatsoever even if one of their employees was caught r
$9.99 safe repair fee will be added to all jobs a (Score:2)
$9.99 safe repair fee will be added to all jobs at the dealer.
I wonder if I'm alone in this... (Score:2, Insightful)
Does anybody besides me believe the world would be a better place if every once in a while we picked a corporate lawyer, lobbyist or adman at random and simply hanged them from the nearest lamppost "pour encourager les autres"?
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You raise an excellent point.
No = wireless diag all cars = remote access (Score:2)
If Mass votes "no" then cars will all include wireless diagnostics to avoid the right to repair law. If the cars include wireless connections then that's where the predictors will get the tracking information. So the same ad is true but for a the opposite vote. It's interesting how the opposition calls them self the "Coalition for Safe and Secure Data".
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So what you're saying is:
The car companies have made an insecure wireless connection that will be available for anyone to access. Simple answer: Turn off the wireless access, or secure it. But of course it will never be secure. How long do you have a car? Alot longer then there are updates to security on the car's "wireless" connection. This is a broken model. There should be a way to turn this off.
Gak, what do we get out of this as a consumer? Nothing.
How can we profit from "Think about the children"? (Score:2)
Above is an excellent example of an abusive AC FP that is intended to derail or destroy rational discussion. I argue that it is not censorship to give such trollage less prominence. There is no right to lucky timing. (But I could make a verbose argument in favor of concision.) Unfortunately, Slashdot seems to lack the resources to fix anything, which goes back to the economic model, which is also the natural segue to the actual topic:
It's a bad economic model that encourages gaming of social issues and prob
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Wow. While I was writing that, 36 more comments appeared in front of it. Proves both my main point and the value of concision, eh?
Separate PII from Diagnostic Data (Score:2)
This seems like a problem that most of the auto industry has already solved. I've done a fair amount of playing with engine management systems on cars and motorcycles converted from street use to track/racing use. Many manufacturers divide their data and data access into (at least) two categories - diagnostic data (which can be read/cleared by most any OBD tool) and other data (such as engine management software, ICE software, etc.) that can only be accessed via special tools that can only be purchased fr
Corruption (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem isn't the ads, or the companies. The problem is that there are far too many Americans who are willing to do horrifying things like this. Who was the actress who played this part? Did she know that she was a part of a scam? How about the person who did the lying voiceover? Did they stop to ask "Hey, what does being a sexual predator have to do with car repair?" How about the marketing team: these people are professional liars. What school did they graduate from? Does that school know that their marketing graduates are using their degrees to endanger democracy by lying to people in political ads?
It seems like nobody is being held accountable for lying. It's just rampant in American culture today. We have to systemically fix this by holding individuals accountable for their actions. We can't just let them say "Well, I concocted lies that attacked the fabric of our democracy because my boss told me to."
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"Fuck you, got mine."
Re: Corruption (Score:2)
"Morality" became a dirty word in the U.S.
We now think those people are ungrounded, snobby, and not being realistic. Keeping the bar low is a great way to make sure no one ever feels out of place, bad about themselves, or obligated to feel responsibility about individual actions.
It was a great experiment, but we Americans probably need to get back to reasonably labeling actions as good/bad for society. There's a taste of it with current social movements, but nobody is actually being compassionate, they're j
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Morality ...
A long-time ago, 'morality' became 'doing this gives me more rights than you'. It's difficult to create rules of common good without it becoming this, see below. It's why people screaming abortion is wrong, are also screaming for the judicial killing of murderers.
"I did it, so you have do it too", is a shitty argument. Yes, society as a whole requires rules but the demand that everyone be like you, is doomed to failure and destroys the concept (and rights) of the individual. Worse, we all spend time hi
Re: Corruption (Score:2)
You want us to shame people for lying, and for liars to feel sorry about it, because of ... ... ...
tv ad attacking right to repair legislation.
Ok bud, take a ticket, someone will call your number shortly. Number 24846269847 to the Mail-in Voter Fraud Window, number 24846269847! Number 91637400181554 to the Things Trump Said Window. We're about to start calling for Russia Lied About Murdering a Politician again, if you have an old ticket please grab a new one. Oh, it's my lunch break, bye.
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How about... (Score:2)
I wish I had the time to start an open source hardware / softwawre project that would make after market parts to replace all the computers on any given model of car. Then i could make money while angering they automotive tyrants.
not sure everything you would need to replace, spark control computer for certain. probaby the distibuter, ABS computer ... not sure what else. What would be really cool would be if you could work it up into a franchisable business where local mechanics could sell a 'take control
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not sure everything you would need to replace, spark control computer for certain. probaby the distibuter, ABS computer
A multi-billion dollar R&D facility and a building full of lawyers.
And cars don't have distributors any more. Modern cars are way more complex than you seem to think.
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Cars don't have distributors any more. I think it might have to be all-or-nothing though - some cars use cryptographic authentication to test if any of the video electronics boxes have been replaced without the manufacturer-approved re-pairing process. Not all cars, but if your product ever caught on, it would become more common.
The ECU would also be a very hard thing to replicate. Those are not simple little controllers - they are programmed for the specific model of engine to continually optimise performa
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And how many after market ECU hackers would you trust to maintain a car's emissions specs? Either due to ignorance or a conscious trade of more horsepower for worse NOx output.
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All of them. After all, they're adult enough to drive mass-ive weapons around.
If they're caught misbehaving, then so be it. Don't shit all over the rest of us and our right to own the things we buy.
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If they're caught misbehaving,
Catching them implies a large emissions testing and enforcement infrastructure. And the money to support it. The EPA has determined that it's more economical to demand that manufacturers implement DRM up front. Whether that's right or wrong, it has the end effect of limit modding to those with a very strong motivation to do so.
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Look up/at MicroSquirt
Seems to make a different argument... (Score:2)
HARK! The smell of desperation is in the air! (Score:2)
When cheap tactics designed to make an appeal to emotion like this are used, Apple knows it's on the losing side of the debate.
Sorry Apple, but you are wrong, you know you are wrong, and you know you can't nickle and dime your customers to death in every little way possible forever. People are going to get pissed.
Re: HARK! The smell of desperation is in the air! (Score:2)
Holy fucking shit, this was talking about the Auto industry, not Apple. Though honestly, I *thought* I saw "Apple" and not "Auto" in the headline.
See Apple? You did a fine job with your shenanigans regarding iPhone parts and your whole iOS that you conditioned me to expect this kind of behavior (ad in question) from YOU, enough so that I would make this kind of mistake. Good job!
This does raise a genuine concern (Score:2)
If anything, we need a right to repair law and a law to restrict what data an appliance can collect, manipulate , store and pass on, especially without user consent, and I don't mean bs "take this as a package deal" EULA type 'consent'.
They know (Score:2)
'Appeal to Emotion' logical fallacy (Score:2)
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Like terrorists.
They created this privacy nightmare, and now they're saying, "it'd be a shame if something happened to all that data we created on you and you got raped..."
Nothing but terrorists.
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Re: 'Appeal to Emotion' logical fallacy (Score:2)
"Fear tactics, in other words. Guess they're taking a page from the current Administrations' playbook: spread FUD to manipulate people into doing what you want."
Apple just wants to nickle and dime it's customers to death, and will use every cheap tactic in the book that they think will work to keep their little racket going.
This is all grade school bullshit, and Apple is the Brenda who desperately tries to keep her clique from associating with the unpopular girl Suzy, and fills their heads with ever
Re: 'Appeal to Emotion' logical fallacy (Score:2)
Oops, I mistook "Auto" for "Apple" for some reason, though it's not hard to see why with Apple's behavior during the past decade.
Still, the point is valid, and this high school bullshit is far from being limited to the auto industry or Apple.
Sigh, I miss the good old days when ads just said "Our product X is superior to our competetors Y" instead of playing the "OMG Rape!" card type bullshit they are doing now. This shit is just downright creepy, the way they are willing to stoop to this level.
Re: (Score:2)
Should be standard equipment (Score:2)
Re: Should be standard equipment (Score:2)
"It's pathetic than you even need an OBD scanner"
$$$
Both sides can play the game (Score:2)
Someone should copy this ad and put it on youtube but make sure the woman is getting in a Saab.
Change the last bit where it is clear she can't get in her car because the key fob isn't working...
"Right to Repair is essential when your dealer goes broke" Vote YES on 1.
So I'm supposed to worry about some mechanic (Score:2)
instead of the huge corporations and the police who have all that data at their fingertips.
The worst thing a mechanic is likely to do is tell me I need $3000 worth of repairs and I'm too ignorant to know if I'm being ripped off or not.
"uh, will my car go after you fix it?"
"Yes!"
"Well, okay then - here's $3000!"
It may be highway robbery, but suggesting it is rape or akin to sexual assault is wrong.
Why malware on wheels is a bad idea (Score:2)
I liked this ad. Good way to highlight the utter irresponsibility of vehicle manufacturers rolling malware off their assembly lines.
This offers one of many examples why pervasive tracking and monitoring over networks integrated into modern vehicles is dangerous and in dire need of legislative correction.
Re: Why malware on wheels is a bad idea (Score:2)
It's worse when it comes to cars where
everything is controlled by computer, and
people hand over critical driving tasks to
"the computer".
How well guarded is Tesla's "auto pilot",
as features can be added (or taken away)
through internet updates?
[Malware corrupted auto pilot senses 18 wheeler in front of you...,ZOOOOM! Right into the back of the truck you crash]
Propaganda (Score:2)
The assumption is, that doesn't happen now. But no-one will ask "Why are vehicles storing personal data?" or "What are manufacturers doing now to protect personal data?"
Domestic violence advocates say ...
They don't say whether this ruling will make that event more, or less likely.
This is the essence of propaganda: Associating good or bad outcomes (Y=sexual assault) with a specific attribute (X=car-owner's privacy) while ignoring the actual problem (Z=a law restricting the entitlements of manufacturers).
It's difficult to argue that law Z
I've got another solution (Score:2)
How about if the car doesn't collect data useful to stalkers to begin with.
Re: Epstein partied at Maralago with Trump (Score:4, Informative)
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Stock me? As in, put me on a shelf or something?
Oh, you mean STALK me. Carry on then.
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Not funny enough for the mod (as if I'll ever see a mod point to give), but you're just feeding a diversionary string of trollage.
The "popular" topic is quite "ripe" for abuse, however. While I gathered my thoughts on the topic, more than 30 comments had been posted...
Now I think my comments were too shallow... The deeper issue is the "natural mortality" of children. After all, in the equilibrium case and assuming random shuffling of the genes, every couple should have at least four kids so that all but two
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Gotta love it.
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> I mean, one could argue that making cars at all benefits sexual predators
You make an excellent case... for sharia law.
If women weren't allowed to drive AND weren't allowed to be out in public without a male escort, just think of all the nice things we could have.
Islam was right.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
It's just an ad ridiculum argument. Perfectly valid approach to rhetoric.
- My opponent says A.
- But if A, then B.
- B is ridiculous.
- Therefore A is also ridiculous, but in a less obvious way.
Or in this case:
- The auto industry says that cars with open specifications would aid stalkers, so we can't allow it.
- But cars aid stalkers regardless of openness, simply by being cars, so we should ban cars.
- No-one realistically proposes banning cars.
- Therefore the auto industry argument is ridiculous.
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But in this case the auto industries argument is ridiculous even without "But cars aid stalkers regardless of openness, simply by being cars, so we should ban cars."
I highly doubt that any one is currently refraining from stalking someone just because they are unable to read a car's wireless diagnostics.
Re: Epstein partied at Maralago with Trump (Score:2)
Fuck no. That ring doorbell they installed probably will tell said rapist if they are home alone or not. Unless they intend to rape you in your car its a ridiculous point. The car has no damn clue the driver is packing a chambered .40S&W.
Hell they would make a better case arguing malicious assholes would run your timing out of spec and damage your car.
Re: Which type of predator? (Score:2)
You know, it's probably time to get over Clinton. Don't you people have new marching orders from upstairs yet?
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No, I get my orders from myself. I'm old enough to do that. I'm also old enough to remember what an asshole Nixon was. But in spite of that he was a flaming liberal by today's standards.
Ever piece of legislation that was passed by that lying sack of shit (Clinton) is still in force, to the permanent detriment and impoverishment of millions, myself included.
--NAFTA
--Telco "reform"
--Bank deregulation (2008, anyone?)
--Welfare "reform"
the list goes on and on and on...
Re:they're sort of right (Score:4, Funny)
I bet 99% of sexual predators have eaten fast food at some point, we should ban fast food...
Re:they're sort of right (Score:4, Insightful)
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How about, WHY THE FUCK is you car storing personal information about you, mind your own fucking business car. You take me from point A to point B and you identify me to make sure that you are not giving yourself away to a stranger and after we make the trip, you forget it ever happened. Provide me a dock for my mobile phone, power and an atennae and amp and some speakers for the phone and run the fucking car and nothing else.
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Clearly we should ban food.
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This is the old argument, rehashed: "free speech is abused by Nazis, so we need to abolish free speech to stop the Nazis. Everyone against that is aiding and abetting Nazis. If you're pro-free speech, you're a Nazi sympathiser! We don't talk to Nazi sympathisers, we punch them! And if you are against punching free speech activists / Nazi sympathisers, you too are a Nazi sympathiser and need to be punched.", iterated until the current day where half the country sees their half to be engaged in a life-and-dea
Re: Stalking not worth it (Score:2)
Baggage these days affects both sexes. Expect new artificial baggage as a whole generation is being trained to stay butthurt 24/7. I feel sorry for those of this generation when it comes time for dating.