VW Announces Its 'ID.3' Electric Car For the Masses, Praises Elon Musk (businessinsider.de) 63
Qbertino writes: The VW ID.3 (VW German Minisite and Configurator) is a compact car with a design loosely based on the very successful VW Golf line. The base model costs less than $33,000 with ranges of 330, 420, and 550 kilometers (or 205, 261 and 340 miles). Along with the car comes a new corporate identity with a newly designed logo reminiscent of the dawn of VW, signaling VW's transition into the electric era it announced with fanfare a while back. VW also isn't too shabby about giving credit where credit is due. "Without Elon Musk my job would be considerably harder," VW Chief Strategist Michael Jost was quoted as saying a few days ago. The base model of the ID.3 will only charge up to 50kW, but owners who want to charge faster (up to 100kW) can pay extra for that ability. "100kW charging will come standard on the midrange 58kWh version, while even faster 125kW charging will be available on the top-tier ID.3," reports The Verge. "The company is also offering an eight year / 160,000 kilometer warranty on the ID.3's battery pack."
ID.3 ? (Score:2)
Really great name there, VW
There were going to name it Electric Drive (Score:2)
But ED.3 got nixed by marketing.
Re:ID.3 ? (Score:4, Informative)
The first designation for the mass produced postwar Beetle was "Type 1".
Re:ID.3 ? (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah, the official names were "Type 1" for what everyone called the Beetle, "Type 2" for the microbus/camper/kombi thing, "Type 3" for the squareback/notchback/liftback thing, and "Type 4" for the replacement for the Type 2. They weren't very creative with their model names.
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For your information, the developing fashion is function over form. Does that mean you avoid form, no but it means function takes precedence, clean professional, simple functional lines and with that goes the branding and ID, obviously how you ID yourself and your vehicle. The market audience can pay a bit more than for a base model infernal combustion polluter.
Their marketing is on point for an all electric vehicle that is clearly aimed right at the middle market, especially as a second vehicle. The Combi
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Numbers are pretty common for car names. Mazda just have the 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 series. Peugeot have three digit numbers that are generation-zero-size.
They do it because numbers are usually fine in every market. They avoid the trap that Audi fell into with their new Turd. I still can't quite believe Audi went ahead with that.
Re: ID.3 ? (Score:2)
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The whole world calls it the Audi Turd now. People were not going to let that one slide.
Besides it's not just the French, it's all the other French speaking countries too. Belgium, Canada and more.
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No, they avoided 4 because in Japanese it can be read as either "yon" or "shi", and "shi" also means death. I guess it's a homophone, although there's probably a different name for it. I believe Chinese is the same.
So actually it's got a solid factual basis, unlike Western companies that avoid the number 13.
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It's not superstition. They would literally have been calling their car the Mazda Death. The word "shi" literally means death or the number four.
Sony always went with using transliterated English for the Playstation so were able to call it the "pureisuteishon foaa", i.e. they used the English word "four" as the official Japanese name.
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The Type 4 was a slightly larger, more luxurious car that overlapped the Type 3 quite a bit. Also a wagon/liftback car (and available with 4 doors!)
North America? (Score:2)
Re:North America? (Score:5, Funny)
From TFA:
It will be the first vehicle built on the company’s new modular all-electric platform, one that will power dozens more cars and SUVs that are waiting in the wings as part of the larger Volkswagen Group’s multibillion-dollar push into EVs. That said, VW has no plans to release the car in the US right now...
IMO, best to wait until they work out all the kinks in ID.3.1. Or maybe ID.3.11 for Workgroups.
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The wait for ID.95 could be substantial...
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The US isn't getting the Honda e either, which I think is a very interesting car and for me better than the ID.3.
The Honda only has a 35kWh battery, but it has CCS2 charging and they claim 30 minutes for 10-80%, so it's fast.
Charge speed matters more than a large battery, if you have to pick one or the other. The ID.3 base model is limited to 50kW, and the new Nissan Leaf 62kWh seems to struggle to get much over 40kW and then overheats and drops down to under 20kW.
Bjorn Nyland tested a Leaf against an old I
Re: North America? (Score:2)
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Even the base Model 3 can drive for about 3 hours before needing to charge. Most people would welcome a 30 minute break at that point. It's around what we refer to as "bladder range".
Obviously if you need to drive 19 hours straight to your remote off-grid cabin then an EV may not be for you.
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It doesn't take me 30 minutes to empty my bladder.
I don't see this as an insurmountable problem though. We'll just change the way we think about refuelling. Instead of just driving around and then refuelling when the tank is nearly empty, it'll become normal to plug the car in every time we stop. This means, obviously, that there are going to be many more charging points at motorway service stations, in fact, maybe most their car parking spaces will have them.
Re: North America? (Score:2)
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Mostly I'm just disappointed that they seem not to give any thought to them being maintained after they're built and delivered. Everything is a pain in the ass to work on.
That said, they're still better than a Fiat (which I own because I'm a masochist) in that respect.
ID.Impressed by VW (Score:3, Interesting)
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Manager-Magazin, which is well known for its connections in the German auto industry, has written multiple times about how Diess is a big fan of Tesla and wants Volkswagen to buy a large stake in the company. But there's little support from the board and the rest of the executive ranks.
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That screen is really ugly though...
I like the interior of the Honda e. It's open, more screen space than a Tesla but also a few minimal physical controls for essential stuff. In particular they appear to have a knob for zooming, which is infinitely more practical than trying to do a pinch manoeuvre on a touch screen while driving. I find pinching always rotates and stops the screen following my location too.
Cue the love (Score:5, Insightful)
"Without Elon Musk my job would be considerably harder," VW Chief Strategist Michael Jost was quoted as saying a few days ago."
If all Elon's foray into electric-powered vehicles accomplished was to expedite the replacement of fossil fuel powered engines, I believe he'd call that a win.
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I still want to get my hands on a flame-thrower.
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Buy one then. It was just a roofing torch.
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We call them pear burners... you can burn the thorns off of Prickly Pears [wikipedia.org] so that they make good range feed for goats and sheep... and they're instrumental in making a decent asphalt patch.
Nonetheless, no one else has ever sold $500 pear burners (or roofing torches) as fast as 3 for a dollar bottles of water at a 4th of July run on Area 51.
Hot cakes [theverge.com]
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Those roofing torches require you to carry around a huge propane tank though don't they?
Had a brief stint as a roofer in my early years.
Until I found out everyone that worked there had fallen off a roof at one time or another. And that the co-founder of the company died falling off a roof.
True story - Apple roofing - Philadelphia , pretty sure they are still around.
No thanks.
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A roofing torch is very different. The Not a Flamethrower burns differently and is purely for fun and games - and that’s OK!
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It's still taking a long time for the transition to happen, and manufacturers are only moving in that direction as electric cars start approaching profitability (which realistically hasn't happened yet). Oh, and almost all electric cars are still just concepts or PR stunts.
I'm not sure Musk really did much other than prove that the only viable market for electric cars is the luxury market. Also, he still can't sell them at the prices he's widely promised for many years.
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"Can't" is a strong word, more like "won't".
I'm absolutely sure he could make the $35k out the door profitable version of the Model 3, but why do that when he can sell more of the more expensive models than he can produce? Does that mean he broke another promise? Technically yes, but he did make a car that is roughly half the price of the flagship vehicle and is still nice enough that he can't keep them in stock. And I feel like that was more or less the point of the model 3 (whether that's $35k, or $40k).
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Came here to say this. It was an extremely revealing quote.
I suspect that Mr. Jost is much more connected into the global automobile industry than Elon Musk ever was or ever will be, and what this shows is what extreme resistance to even the idea of EVs being a mainline product within that economic eco-system.
To some of my Tesla-approval posts here on /. I have had responses such as "HAH. VW can do 10 Million cars a year! Tesla is going to be crushed." Yet here we get a glimpse of how hard it i
Runs on Diesel (Score:5, Funny)
When you "plug" this thing in at one of the proprietary and required VW branded charge stations it actually just refills the "battery" with diesel fuel.
Apparently this is VW's newest and most clever approach to circumventing efficiency standards.
What's the gimmick? (Score:1)
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It reminds people of the Golf.
Its carbon neutral.
Germany welcomes its new electric Trabant.
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probably runs on lead asbestos and baby souls.
Re: What's the gimmick? (Score:2)
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I see you're a fan of Linette "Positively Charged Electron" Lopez ;)
Re:What's the gimmick? (Score:4, Interesting)
I recently read about an experiment in which people from countries with high levels of endemic corruption and people from low-corruption countries played a game with monetary payouts and opportunities to cheat. It turns out that there wasn't any measurable cultural difference in the propensity to cheat. What made the most difference across the board was whether subjects believed the other subjects were cheating. What makes corrupt countries corrupt is that people living in them believe them to be corrupt.
This accords with my experience of business ethics. Almost never do people consult their philosophical principles when confronted with an ethically dubious choice. They want to know if other people are doing it, and if so, are they gaining some kind of unfair advantage? If so, it's a no-brainer for most people to jump right into the muck.
The VW emissions conspiracy was remarkably large. It involved scores, possibly hundreds of people. I believe this is only possible if there is a widespread conviction within the company that the game is corrupt. Whether they thought it was just VW, or the entire auto industry, or the entire world I do not know.
Under the present circumstances everyone at VW must expect the world and more importantly *prosecutors* to be paying close attention to what they do. So I suspect they view the game as little less corrupt, if only for now.
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Well, there's this [slashdot.org]. But that's a marketing game.
Honestly, I do think Diess's heart is in the right place, and he wants to get stuff done. I'm not sure how effectively he can drag the rest of VW with. Their new gigafactory is planning to make as much battery capacity in 2023-2024 as Tesla's makes today. 4 years behind. ID. 3 production is only planned at 30k next year, 100k each subsequent year - with a new model introduced each year bringing up the factory ultimately to 300k/yr several years from now.
Re: What's the gimmick? (Score:2)
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Correction re: the ranges (Score:4, Interesting)
And I guess we shouldn't expect any better, but...
There's two games being played here: the "drivecycle game" and the "up to" game.
1) The drivecycle game: These are WLTP range figures, the European standard. The US, however, uses EPA combined range figures. WLTP generally yields EV ranges 10-25% or so longer than EPA combined figures. More efficient vehicles tend to be toward the low end of the range, while less efficient vehicles tend to be toward the high end. Any conversion of WLTP (measured in kilometers) to miles is automatically going to invite misleading comparisons.
2) The "up to" game: The original claim from VW was that the ranges were "up to 205mi", "up to 260mi", and "up to 342mi". The WLTP testing consist of five separate cycles which are combined, ranging from very low to high speeds. While the combined figure is supposed to be the WLTP range, manufacturers have found that it's better marketing to give the range - for example, the 45kWh pack was "143 to 205 miles" and the 77kWh pack is "242 to 342 miles". Sounds more impressive than just a middle figure, right? From there, an even better marketing strategy was devised - why even bother mentioning the low end at all? Just say "up to 205 miles" and "up to 342 miles", respectively! Don't bother mentioning that these numbers are for extremely low speed city driving. ;)
Cancelling out these games, you could expect EPA combined figures for the ID.3 to come in somewhere around 155mi (45kWh) to 255 miles (77kWh), give or take. Of course, there won't be any EPA figures for it ever given out, because it won't be coming to the US. But expect the exact same games to continue in the future.
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Totally, though one minor correction, the longest range is likely associated with road driving at fairly low and constant speed. "Extremely low speed city driving" increases per-mile consumption for some reasons, the stop&go traffic regenerative braking isn't super efficient; there are other mechanical losses with speed and direction changes; there's a lot of idling; and even putting all these aside, the car has a baseline constant consumption, even just standing will run down the battery esp. if entert
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Who cares? Electrics and this car are meant for low speed city driving anyway. 155-255 is plenty.
Die car-touchscreens die! (Score:2)
Awful.
One of the things that makes my venerable mkV GTI so good is tactile controls that I don't have to look at: Get in the car on a hot day and whip the temp control counterclockwise all the way and you're on max A/C.
Touchscreens are way too greedy of drivers' attention. Should be illegal in a car.
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+1000 We can't use our phone when driving but now we have an iPad size screen in the middle of the car and another screen just in front of the driver with bright colors, animations, ... No more tactile controls is a big attention black hole : you have to look at the screen each time you need to interact with.
touch screens are a huge improvement (Score:2)
Hello fellow curmudgeon.
There are touch screens installed in the radio panel in an airplane that I fly. Unfortunately the autopilot is only single-axis, so I'm hand-flying most of the time. I also have a touch-screen tablet attached to the 'steering wheel' that I use extensively in all phases of flight, and I use my touch-screen phone as a back-up. I've had no near-death experiences from anything (while flying), not even the touch screens, and I think it safe to say that during take-off and landing in ch
No real buttons -- bad in an electric car (Score:2)
People think of heat in a car as free and air conditioning as expensive, but in an electric car, where you have less waste heat available, heating the car is much worse for battery life than cooling it.
This means you have times in your electric car where you want to wear gloves. If you've got 150 miles of range and you think you need 100 of those, you should NOT turn on the heat.
The id.3 has non-button buttons -- Cool touch-sensitive things. These are probably NOT going to work when you're wearing gloves.
Now for the Two Real Needs: (Score:2)
It needs to be truly Affordable to the Masses (IE, people who really can't afford to drop over $30,000 on a car).
Also, it needs to be able to function Without being connected to the internet constantly.
If it can be both of these things, it might be worth having.
Amazing (Score:1)
If you haven't learned by now, these people (VW corporate pirates), deserve nothing but keel-hauling.