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Education Power Transportation The Almighty Buck Technology

California Awards $70 Million To State Schools To Replace 200 Polluting Diesel School Buses With All-Electric Buses (electrek.co) 248

Posted by BeauHD from the out-with-the-old-in-with-the-new dept.
The California Energy Commission has awarded nearly $70 million to state schools to replace more than 200 diesel school buses with new, all-electric school buses. Electrek reports: The commission approved the funding this week. A total of $89.8 million has now been earmarked for new electric buses at schools in 26 California counties, as the commission's School Bus Replacement Program works toward this goal. A study published in Economics of Education Review last month showed diesel retrofits had positive results on both respiratory health and test scores. Eliminating emissions from these buses completely will do even more to protect children from dangerous emissions while cutting air pollution. The new buses will eliminate nearly 57,000 pounds of nitrogen oxides, and nearly 550 pounds of fine particulate matter (PM2.5) emissions annually.

The exact number of buses going to California school districts is unclear -- the energy commission only says "more than 200." If the entirety of the $70 million went to just 200 buses, that'd be $350,000 per bus. But while the exact cost of each bus is unknown, the commission does estimate that "schools will save nearly $120,000 in fuel and maintenance costs per bus over 20 years." Some estimates have noted that electric school buses tend to cost about $120,000 more than diesel buses -- if that's the case here, the price will be equal in the end, with added health benefits. Funding for the electric buses is supplied by the voter-approved California Clean Energy Jobs Act, and the commission's Clean Transportation Program will provide the charging infrastructure to support the buses.
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California Awards $70 Million To State Schools To Replace 200 Polluting Diesel School Buses With All-Electric Buses More

California Awards $70 Million To State Schools To Replace 200 Polluting Diesel School Buses With All-Electric Buses

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  • And my budget was $350K? Shoot... I'd forgo an extra slide-out or some such amenity, and I'd have cable, Natalie Portman, and Grits.

  • And then have some of those smart kids do something smarter for the environment to sooth all these environmental cravings of the politicians.

    • Dumping Diesel Improves Educational Results (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 17, 2019 @09:41PM (#58943374)

      Fixing school buses is an effective (and cheap) way to improve students’ health and academic performance. [brookings.edu] Improvements to test scores are equivalent to hiring teachers with 5 more years of experience.

      Turns out that kids are especially susceptible to air pollution because they are still growing. So cleaning up the air they breath has a massive improvement on health which also leads to major improvements in their ability to learn.

      • A study published in Economics of Education Review last month showed diesel retrofits had positive results on both respiratory health and test scores.

        Seriously? You want to argue that not riding in a diesel bus improves their grades? That just doesnâ(TM)t pass the smell test.

    • you can do both. Just undo the 40+ years of non stop tax cuts for the rich. Problem solved.

  • Why so expensive (Score:5, Funny)

    by bl968 ( 190792 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2019 @09:40PM (#58943372) Journal

    70 million to replace 200 buses is $350,000 per bus. Yet buses normally run around $110,000. Electric buses usually run $200,000 What exactly makes electric school buses cost an extra $150,000? It's certainly not for seatbelts...

    • Re: Why so expensive (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The grant may include infrastructure and spare parts as well.

      • And training for maintenance personal.. To have the cost per bus be double the retail price is perfectly reasonable for this type of purchase. It would be interesting to know how the maintenance costs compare between modern diesel and electric busses. There could be some hidden savings in this deal.

        • Re: Why so expensive (Score:5, Insightful)

          by tlhIngan ( 30335 ) <slashdot@worf.ERDOSnet minus math_god> on Thursday July 18, 2019 @02:23AM (#58944238)

          And training for maintenance personal.. To have the cost per bus be double the retail price is perfectly reasonable for this type of purchase. It would be interesting to know how the maintenance costs compare between modern diesel and electric busses. There could be some hidden savings in this deal.

          Electric vehicles need much less maintenance. There's less consumables - brake pads, tires, wipers and such pretty much round out the consumables. The other stuff like coolant last a long time on an EV. There's no engine oil that requires changing twice a year. Plus, most have a simple transmission (single gear) keeping even those mechanical bits very simple. Not even a reverse gear is needed since the motor can spin backwards (at reduced efficiency generally).

          And with regen braking, even the brake pads can last an extraordinarily long time since you're preferring to generate electricity rather than waste it as heat in the brakes.

          Of course, perhaps a bus has more maintenance items, but most of it is in the drivetrain which is much simpler in an electric version.

          I wonder how much of anti-EV sentiment gets stirred up by dealerships, who realize those buying EVs will rarely have to visit their service department. That's where most dealerships make their money - selling new and used cars generates very little profit. And yes, while some customers will use their own mechanics, most people will still return to dealership. With an EV, they'll rarely need to visit their service department - no longer every 3-4 or 6 months... now it's maybe once in 24 months.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jabuzz ( 182671 )

            What is it with Americans and changing engine oil all the time? It like it's the 1970's still or something. You do know that modern synthetic engine oil is way superior to what we used in the past. You need to be doing a high mileage to warrant changing the oil more than once a year these days.

            • What is it with Americans and changing engine oil all the time?

              The mechanic puts a sticker on our window to tell us when to change the oil. He takes the current odometer reading and adds 3000 miles to it. I think most people just follow that sticker. Other people wait until the "replace oil" light comes on, which takes a whole lot longer than 3000 miles even with lots of city driving. I think the mechanic's stickers are a bit of a scam, although I can't imagine having people service their cars slightly too frequently improves their business all that much.

              If you crack o

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

              What is it with Americans and changing engine oil all the time? It like it's the 1970's still or something. You do know that modern synthetic engine oil is way superior to what we used in the past. You need to be doing a high mileage to warrant changing the oil more than once a year these days.

              Depends how you drive. City driving is considered "intensive" driving as far as the service schedule goes - highway driving is actually far easier ton the engine and puts a lot less wear and tear than city stop-and-go

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Shotgun ( 30919 )

              That synthetic oil does nothing for the reason that oil is changed on a regular basis: acid build-up.

              Gasoline has a small amount of sulfur. One of the products of combustion is water. Together, they make acid. The oil can be crystal clear, and still have enough acid to chew away at metal parts.

          • Electric vehicles need much less maintenance.

            My company is doing some work with EVs. We quickly learned that service on an EV is a big deal. Although electric vehicles need less maintenance overall, any work performed will be completely different than the work most mechanics are trained for. Instead of mechanics being trained to handle fuels safely, they now have to be trained to handle battery backs safely. The risk of injury from electric discharge is much higher than the risk of injury from fuel. Diesel fuel in particular is very easy to handl

    • Re:Why so expensive (Score:4, Interesting)

      by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2019 @09:46PM (#58943388)
      They're still specialty, niche items and thus more expensive than fossil-fool buses.
    • I certainly didn't RTFA but that extra 150k should be able to buy a bus that's purpose-built for EV: no need for a conventional body-on-frame design with a dangerously-high CG and near zero structual integrity - except a strong steel roof raising that CG even higher.
    • And why does the term "retrofit" appear in an article about new buses? Are they buying new buses or retrofitting existing buses?

      And are they really going all over the State, or to replace the (approx) 350 diesel buses LAUSD still has in its fleet (over 1300 LA buses in total)?

    • How does a $200k thing suddenly cost $350k?
      Because it's a government purchase.

  • The California Energy Commission has awarded nearly $70 million to state schools to replace more than 200 diesel school buses with new, all-electric school buses. Electrek reports: The commission approved the funding this week. A total of $89.8 million has now been earmarked for new electric buses at schools in 26 California counties, as the commission's School Bus Replacement Program works toward this goal.

    So 26 different school districts will get an average of 8 electric buses each? Sounds like a real drop in the bucket.

    that'd be $350,000 per bus. But while the exact cost of each bus is unknown, the commission does estimate that "schools will save nearly $120,000 in fuel and maintenance costs per bus over 20 years." Some estimates have noted that electric school buses tend to cost about $120,000 more than diesel buses -- if that's the case here, the price will be equal in the end, with added health benefits.

    So the cost is the same (no savings, see above) only after running the electric buses for 20 years? Two questions, are diesel buses typically kept on the road for 20 years, and has anyone actually run one of these electric buses for twenty years to confirm operational cost projections?

    School districts typically swap out diesel buses after 12 years, in part because after 12 years they are elig

  • Economics of this get complex (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Goonie ( 8651 ) <robert,merkel&benambra,org> on Thursday July 18, 2019 @02:12AM (#58944196) Homepage
    Figuring out whether this makes sense strictly in economic terms would require:
    • How much it costs California to borrow money - which I gather is around 2-3%, but the details matter
    • The difference in service life between an electric and diesel bus, if any
    • The difference in maintenance cost
    • The difference in fuel cost (which is subject to considerable variability given the volatile nature of oil prices
    • Whether you are prepared to put an economic value on the non-greenhouse pollutants emitted by a school bus (hint: you should)
    • Whether you are prepared to put an economic value on the greenhouse emissions

    However, this misses the larger point that the goal of these small-scale purchases is to develop an electric school bus industry so that in future California, and other states, will be able to buy them in much larger quantities at much cheaper prices.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tomhath ( 637240 )

      the commission does estimate that "schools will save nearly $120,000 in fuel and maintenance costs per bus over 20 years." Some estimates have noted that electric school buses tend to cost about $120,000 more than diesel buses -- if that's the case here, the price will be equal in the end

      Ignore any other articles by this author that discuss money. You do not get $120000 for 20 years without paying interest (or losing interest by not investing the cash).

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by q4Fry ( 1322209 )

        You do not get $120000 for 20 years without paying interest (or losing interest by not investing the cash).

        Came here to say this. It's also a favorite misleading point on Solar City's website. "With our solar roof, you'll recover the cost in 15 years" or something like that. No you won't. If you want a solar roof, that's fine, but know that investing the difference in cost between solar and some other material will more than pay for the "recovered" money in electricity payments.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Goonie ( 8651 )
          I'd also note that the economics of solar power varies greatly according to your location, due to the cost of grid electricity, amount of sun available, and government incentives. In sunny places with expensive power (Australia, for instance) solar is a no-brainer even taking into account cost of money.
  • The LA Unified School District has over 1300 buses in its fleet, of which about 350 are still diesel. That's one city.
  • than diesel buses, because someone already figured out that electric buses will save nearly $120,000 in fuel and maintenance costs per bus over 20 years.

  • ...funds to clean the crap up off the streets?

  • That's so modern and innovative! I am glad to read such news. Nevertheless, I would be glad to see the absence of essays because https://studymoose.com/process... [studymoose.com] is already tired of my orders.

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