Aston Martin Will Make Old Cars Electric So They Don't Get Banned From Cities (theverge.com) 143
Aston Martin announced this week that it's starting a "Heritage EV" program where owners of classic Aston Martins can have their cars converted to an all-electric powertrain. The British automaker said they are starting this program so that classic cars don't get banned from cities that are moving to shun internal combustion engines in favor of boosting air quality for residents. The Verge reports: Aston Martin says the technology for these conversions will be built on "key components" being used to develop the Rapide E, a super-limited all-electric sports car due late next year. The Rapide E will use an 800-volt, 65kWh battery, offer "over 200 miles" of range, and feature a sub-4-second 0-60 mph time, as well as a top speed of 155 miles per hour. Only 155 of them will be sold, too. So the best way to get a taste of Aston Martin's electric future might actually be one of these EV conversions.
The automaker says the first car it will develop a conversion plan for is the 1970 DB6 MkII Volante. Aston Martin will build Rapide E-inspired "cassettes" that can essentially slide in where the original engine and gearbox used to be, and will even be attached to the same mountings. A new screen will be fitted in the car's interior, but otherwise, little else is changed. This also means that, should an owner change their mind, and also have the money (which, come on, of course they do), they should be able to change it back if they so desire.
The automaker says the first car it will develop a conversion plan for is the 1970 DB6 MkII Volante. Aston Martin will build Rapide E-inspired "cassettes" that can essentially slide in where the original engine and gearbox used to be, and will even be attached to the same mountings. A new screen will be fitted in the car's interior, but otherwise, little else is changed. This also means that, should an owner change their mind, and also have the money (which, come on, of course they do), they should be able to change it back if they so desire.
Re: (Score:2)
What kind of car Iâ(TM)m gonna write about next!! Thanks slashdot!
Oh, stop being such a Grinch. This is actually kind of cool.
Re:I know (Score:4, Interesting)
This is actually kind of cool
I agree. I have some doubts about this specific effort. Teslas are, to some extent, big heavy cars because they need a lot of battery space. I'm told that current Tesla batteries are approaching theoretical limits for Lithium-ion energy density. Not that that's an absolute limit on how compact car batteries can be, but it does suggest that wedging batteries into an Aston-Martin DB6 that is a foot shorter than a Tesla Model 3 and unlike the Model 3 not designed around the need for a large battery pack may be a problem. Of course, the engine, transmission, and fuel tank are no longer needed, so maybe it will work out.
And the weight distribution will likely be quite different. That's got to affect handling?
I'm not especially a car guy, so maybe I'm overestimating the problems. Or maybe I'm missing some. But anyway, it's interesting, and, I agree, kind of cool.
Re:I know (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
but if you've bought an MG and can improve the performance and reliability, it doesn't detract from the main reason you bought an MG. Which I'm assuming is you like the shape, the interior, and the size
If I could buy an 80's Mercedes 560SEC but replace the engine and transmission with an electric drive train, I would be a very happy person.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The poster below you suggested a Miata but I can't imagine anyone in the market for a 560SEC thinking a Miata hits all the same critera. I mean, they're both cars, but that's probably as much as they have in common.
Re: (Score:3)
Tesla did it right with the battery pack under the floor. Putting some batteries in the trunk indicates they needed t
Re: (Score:2)
...saw an old MG that had been converted in a similar way.
If nothing else, I'd guess that the original Lucas electronics were ripped out and replaced with something -- anything -- that actually works. That has to be a major step foward. Old Joke: "Why do the British drink warm beer?" Answer "Lucas refrigerators"
Re:I know (Score:4, Insightful)
The thing is, nobody sane takes an antique Aston Martin on a 4 hour trip. You take one out for 30-40 minutes and then have a rest. Or, you are using the car in an actual multi-day race, in which case you would obviously not undergo an electric conversion.
I expect very few classic car owners would both cruise in the town for fun, and also race with the same car.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Did you notice they talked about making it an "EV cassette" and that reversibility is heavily promoted?
Doesn't seem too much like butchering to me.
Re: (Score:1)
The thing is, nobody sane takes an antique Aston Martin.. and BUTCHERS it eviscerating its heritage and history.
These aren't collectibles insomuch as "choppers".
You can convert classic cars in such a way that they can be converted back to ICE. This is what Jaguar themselves did with the E-Type Zero:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=610Amyhpzzk
See also third-party conversion of a Porsche:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJLdzRJdKrs
No butchering needed: take out ICE, add e-motor and batters with some cable.
Re: (Score:2)
An Aston-Martin conversion is a little more free of these last constraints. There might be multiple battery packs that require a fair amount of labor to install. And when all is said and done the range may not be all that impressive, but how many miles does a typical 1970 DB6 get driven in one shot anyway?
Re: (Score:2)
There are critical safety implications involved in doing this though. The size of a laptop battery has the explosive force of a grenade. Tesla cars are designed to protect the battery. Converted cars, not so much. There's also the issue of training for EMS to prevent death resulting from electrical shock. Tesla's and Prius' are obvious. But this old car everyone is expecting to have an ICE powerplant? Sure, throw water on that fire...
Re:I know (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, stop being such a Grinch. This is actually kind of cool.
I've got an 82 Corvette that I'd love to convert. the cars from about 1975 To 1990 suffered greatly from loss of power due to emission controls. getting up to Tesla speed plus having some new tech to play with would be fun.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I've got an 82 Corvette that I'd love to convert. the cars from about 1975 To 1990 suffered greatly from loss of power due to emission controls.
If you think you've got a place to mount the battery in that chassis without destroying the handling, more power to you. But if all you want is more power you can get it cheaper and easier with an LS swap.
Re: (Score:2)
I have heard about someone converting a 74 'Vette. It isn't going to win any races, and the hackneyed emissions stuff made it a PITA. So, they took the engine and other junk out, put some batteries behind the driver and the rest under the hood, to balance the vehicle out. Supposedly greatly improved not just performance, but handling, and the upfitters even used the fuel fill port for the charging port, so there were not any additional holes made in the fiberglass.
Anything 1973 or earlier, I'd never do t
Re: (Score:2)
Frankly, i think the solution here is for cities to relax the bans on gasoline cars to exclude collectors items insured as collectors cars with collector plates. If you are driving it on Sunday's only, and keeping it restored to original specs, its contribution to pollution is minimal, and its contribution to culture and tradition and history far outweighs that.
Just as we won't tear down a heritage building even if we could replace it with a better insulated more energy efficient one; we shouldn't ruin a cl
Re: (Score:1)
I doubt tthat reason... (Score:5, Informative)
Even here in Germany, classic cars are exempt from most air qualityrules (and even regular car taxes) so I doubt that would be a problem anywhere else.
But then, this is pretty cool and catapults classic cars into the 21st century.
And best of it is: A company is showing dedication to their own products and is not trying to obsolete their old products as fast as possible to sell a few more new ones. That's the long term support i want to see from phone manufacturers.
Re:I doubt tthat reason... (Score:5, Interesting)
You won't see this from phone manufacturers. While many devices, not just Apple's, are priced like luxury objects, they are still very much mass produced commodity items.
Aston Martin does not make commodity items. You usually do not buy an Aston Martin for your commute. Aston Martin sells you a dream. And dreams are something people cultivate.
Re: (Score:2)
Well yes, an iPhone may be many people's dream, too, but yes, to Apple it's a mass product.
Even better to see that these cars are the manufacturers dream also and something that they appreciate, too.
Re: (Score:2)
You usually do not buy an Aston Martin for your commute.
True. Unless it is an Aston Martin Cygnet http://www.astonmartin.com/en/... [astonmartin.com]
Re: (Score:2)
A company is showing dedication to their own products and is not trying to obsolete their old products as fast as possible to sell a few more new ones
It's a sound business model. Those classic car owners can probably afford the price even at double what it actually cost Aston Martin (and that's probably what they'll charge). And there's already a few small outfits offering this service for classic cars.
But for ordinary cars it's just not going to make economic sense unless prices come down a lot. And to think the movie Back to the Future II predicted we'd be able to buy conversion kits to make our old cars fly... (for only $49,995)
Re: (Score:3)
You can bet if the retrofits work well, there is a lot of money to be made applying this to other models.
I doubt this will work generally for performance driven cars, but will be very popular choice for cars whose popularity is principally based on their looks.
Re: (Score:2)
EV conversions for classic sports care are gaining popularity because they often improve the cars for the owners. They go from high maintenance and relatively unimpressive performance (engines in the 60s and 70s just were not that powerful), to low maintenance and more performance than a car without advanced traction control can really handle.
Re:I doubt tthat reason... (Score:4, Insightful)
Sports cars are the ideal vehicles to convert. Even newer ones tend to have longitudinal engines which means lots of room in the engine bay, so no weird engineering problems trying to fit stuff into the vehicle. The only big problem is the battery. For older vehicles it's not much of a problem, but newer ones often have oddly-shaped fuel tanks for packaging reasons.
Re: I doubt tthat reason... (Score:1)
Wouldn't you say a custom battery pack could take just about any shape you need? Or are there some special cooling/heating requirements that require it to be flat or rectangular?
Re: (Score:3)
In theory, yes it could. But that's just another engineering hassle if it has to be done over and over again for each vehicle. As the batteries become more stable and they lose the characteristic that they burst into flame if something goes wrong, the packaging should become easier.
Re: (Score:3)
There is an outfit in Tampa that provides electric conversions to just about any rear-engined VW or Porsche that uses the 180mm or 200mm clutch/flywheel - VW bugs and buses of all years, the VW thing, the Prosche 356, 912, early 911, and 914
While not cheaper than a crate VW engine, cost for complete set up is about what a good engine rebuild on the 356 would cost me...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Numbers can be tricky. What affects the cost of car conversions from infernal combustion to all electric is not actually the cost of the conversion, it is actually the cost of the loss of investment in the current fossil fueled vehicle.
So it is all about how much people are willing to invest in order to protect an existing investment. The more the vehicle is worth, the greater the cost of the electric can be and that cost still be justified to preserve the value of the vehicle.
So how much will a $100,000
Re: (Score:2)
Numbers can be tricky. What affects the cost of car conversions from infernal combustion to all electric is not actually the cost of the conversion, it is actually the cost of the loss of investment in the current fossil fueled vehicle.
...So how much will a $100,000 vehicle be worth if it is banned from metropolitan areas, pretty much zero,
I don't get it. Sports cars are for driving out on the open road. The metropolitan bans are typically for the crowded downtown areas. You don't even want to take your sports car there, you want a little runabout for that.
I would have said that converting a classic Aston Martin from gas to electric would turn it from a collectable into a hodgepodge.
Re: (Score:2)
Even here in Germany, classic cars are exempt from most air qualityrules
For now.
Re: I doubt tthat reason... (Score:4, Informative)
What are you going to do next? Put nuclear power in a model A?
Been done and abandoned as impractical: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Could be a future where electric converted Aston Martins get a nuclear reactor conversion. Doesn't seem terribly likely, but you never know...
It would take some kind of fundamental breakthrough in small fusion reactor technology to make it even slightly sensible. And then we can build retro cars with fusion reactors in them and we'll be all ready for Fallout.
Re: (Score:2)
Hamburg? I haven't seen that data. I think you made it up.
Re: (Score:2)
https://www.npr.org/sections/p... [npr.org]
The critics argue that Hamburg's partial ban â" which officials estimate will reduce traffic by about 6,000 cars per day, or one-fifth the usual number of cars on those streets â" will lower the readings at air quality monitoring stations in the ban zone, but will generate more emissions elsewhere because drivers will spend more time
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
I am not very surprised. The issue of air pollution is more about politics and propaganda than science. The VW "scandal" being an example. The regulations did not specify emissions while driving the car, they specified the emissions in the lab. That is the same as saying "we require X performance in a benchmark" - ie virtually a request to game the system.
The problem now is that people are being driven to
Re: (Score:2)
it depends on the instantaneous temperature and pressure during combustion - which you can't measure or guess on the basis of fuel burned.
Of course you can guess, and that's what they do. You could also measure, cylinder pressure sensors are an actual thing, but they are expensive so they are only creeping into production vehicles slowly. It's a good argument for making an engine with less cylinders, though, because things which you have to pay for per-cylinder are reduced in number.
You can definitely expect cylinder temperature and pressure sensors to creep into production vehicles before the death of the ICE. You can just get on a website a
Re: (Score:2)
It's not just brakes and tyres, it's also road surface itself. The heavier the vehicle, the particulates it pulls out of the road and into the air.
That's why in the Northern regions of Europe, where spikes in tyres are mandatory for safety reasons, worst kind of pollution happens on cold, windless, iceless and snowless days. That's when tyre spikes keep tearing particulates out of the roads and toss them into the air, where there's no wind to clear them out.
Re: I doubt tthat reason... (Score:2)
Particulates from tires are a non-issue, as studies have discovered a species of bacteria that evolved the ability to consume vulcanized rubber, which has been doing just that for decades, eating the tire dust alongside roadways.
Re: (Score:2)
I mean the point is to not use up resources until we don't have any, and to not throw shit into nature until we're living in our own shit.
No, the point of metropolitan bans is that a lot of cars in a densely populated small urban area makes unbreathable air.
Overall, fuel efficiency and pollution and carbon efficiency mean, as you say, that you don't want to use up resources, but the specific application discussed here is cities.
Love this (Score:2, Interesting)
This lets me have an EV and lets me grandfather in my privacy at the same time.
Re: (Score:2)
The big problem that I have with EVs is that they're all new. In other words, they all have "navigation systems." In other words, they all spy on you.
Here's [arstechnica.com] an EV that's just a car (well, a truck), without any fancy-schmancy nav or other tech. Look at the dashboard...
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Love this (Score:4, Informative)
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/v... [mynissanleaf.com]
You still have options, for now.
Re: (Score:2)
Oops, critical income from the gas tax is down, because we've banned ICE vehicles. By law your car shall be equipped with a gps unit [myorego.org], so how many miles you've driven and where can be tracked for the purpose of mileage tax.
But it really won't report location data, ever, pinky swear.
Will that include (Score:5, Funny)
James Bonds DB5 with the machine guns and ejector seat
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe with the upgrade to electric the machine guns could be replaced with rail guns (appropriately sized).
investment out of window (Score:3)
great way to ruin your investment by making the car near worthless.
it will only be worth its money if it is in its original state.
nobody is driving these classic cars anyway, except maybe once or twice a year to go to a meeting or somesuch. even then, it might be they're just transported with a trailer. and these meetings typically don't take place in a city (not enough space to display so many cars anyway). so no cause for banning-fear.
From TFA: (Score:1)
The automaker says the first car it will develop a conversion plan for is the 1970 DB6 MkII Volante. Aston Martin will build Rapide E-inspired “cassettes” that can essentially slide in where the original engine and gearbox used to be, and will even be attached to the same mountings. A new screen will be fitted in the car’s interior, but otherwise, little else is changed. This also means that, should an owner change their mind, and also have the money (which, come on, of course they do), th
Re: (Score:3)
it will only be worth its money if it is in its original state.
Basically no classic car is in its "original state". I would venture as to say that no car, period, is in its "original state" after about 5 years. However this especially applies to cars which are decades old. Most of these classic cars have been re-worked and restored many times.
Whether a classic roadster converted to an EV is worthless is in the eye of the beholder. I have zero interest in buying a classic roadster with its old sputtering engine, this just has no appeal to me. On the other hand, if I cou
Re: (Score:2)
"Well maybe to some people that would be the point of an EV conversion? What good is a car that just sits in a garage most of the time? Might as well be in a museum then. Converting it to EV might allow you to actually drive it regularly."
it's an investment, like i said, they are not supposed to be driven, but rather just looked at, like a piece of art.
and just like art, not all art should be in a museum, nothing wrong with enjoying it privatly in your home collection.
these cars are also not very much fun t
Re: (Score:3)
great way to ruin your investment by making the car near worthless.
I think a car is the worst investment anyway if you want sell it with profit. The value of a car is in the fun to drive it, and in the freedom of having an independent long distance transport capability. Electrification of a historical machine might be a great idea, but that is up to the owner. Not everyone will like it.
Re: (Score:2)
I think a car is the worst investment anyway if you want sell it with profit.
Cars are short-term investment vehicles, pun intended. They physically depreciate by degrading, so you have to constantly be working on them over the long term. But if you spot a trend happening, then you can make some good money by buying the right vehicle with the right provenance for the right amount of money, at the right time. Like anything else.
The Ferrari bubble might be about to pop, and muscle cars have peaked. What's next? The only cars worth a damn in the eighties were Japanese sports cars, and s
Re: (Score:2)
You obviously know nothing about car collectors. ...
Which implies you know nothing about other kinds of collectors
Re: (Score:2)
Electric conversions are already quite popular for classic cars because the fossil engines wear out and deteriorate to the point where they need replacing anyway, so only the ones kept in museums are original these days anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
If you have an old Aston Martin but find it difficult to drive because you know after an hour or so, it's gonna nee
Re: (Score:2)
great way to ruin your investment by making the car near worthless. it will only be worth its money if it is in its original state.
Maybe not. This isn't someone doing a backyard conversion; it's Aston Martin engineering a solution so it's still an Aston Martin and not some cobbled up Frankenmartin. In addition, they are doing a limited run per TFA so each conversion will be a rare variant. Plus, the whole thing is reversible:
Given the historical significance of these collectors cars it’s vital any EV conversion is sympathetic to the integrity of the original car. The cassette system offers the perfect solution, offering owners t
Re: (Score:2)
great way to ruin your investment by making the car near worthless.
Depends on your investment. There are those people who buy these show ponies to keep them all original. Then there are those that buy them for various conversion / changes. They retain their invested value for different reasons, and Aston Martin wouldn't be the first to have a classic go electric (though they may be the first to offer this service from the original vendor).
Re: (Score:2)
And, remember, as Mater [wikiquote.org] said, And then I remembered what they say about old British engines: "If there ain't no oil under 'em, there ain't no oil in 'em."
This fixes that.
Yup. If you rebuild it it'll just leak clean oil for awhile.
Need an XJE (Score:4, Interesting)
My '04 XJR is about as perfect a road car as I can find. Physically, I fit, unlike a Tesla Model S, and it is quite roomy; the large "greenhouse" gives me great visibility; it has sufficient power; it handles beautifully. Currently, because I drive long distances on obscure roads, an electric is not useful to me as an "only" car. However, as an alternative for city use, an electric version would be magnificent. Jaguar has a decent history of electrics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_C-X75 [wikipedia.org], as well as a current "Sport Utility" model https://www.jaguarusa.com/all-models/i-pace/index.html [jaguarusa.com]. A retrofit kit for a same model XJ would make much more sense to me than anything likely to come out in the foreseeable future.
Prestige (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Generally, you wouldn't want to take 60s era car and daily drive. Not only because of reliability and safety concerns, but generally because it won't accelerate and handle well enough to meet modern expectations.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
A fan of the car itself would want it to drive as much as possible like it did the first day out of the factory.
In that case a fan of the car would probably want to do some conversion, modification / modernisation. People who drive their cars are often the ones who swap engines or do something in order to retain or beat the original performance of the car. People who keep it stock own show ponies and are often okay with the fact that after 40 years regardless of maintenance these things don't actually drive like they used to, and when they do they realise how poor their drive actually was.
This is nothing new either:
Re: (Score:2)
Weight distribution? (Score:2)
My concern, would be where is the battery going to go? How is the weight going to be handled?
Batteries are a LOT heavier then a combustion engine.
How is that extra weight going to be handled?
Will you need to beef up the suspension?
What about front to rear distribution?
This "conversion" could totally destroy the handling
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Shunning combusion for electricity? (Score:2)
cities that are moving to shun internal combustion engines
My first thought was of this lyric: "You know, I shun fancy things like electricity" - Amish Paradise.
why don't we do this with all cars? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
So the images shown in the Film "Gattaca" ... (Score:2)
... weren't all to far off.
I had that suspicion. That in some hyper-clean futuristic world neo-hippster-compliant retro chique would be en-vogue again. Mark my words: Once elctric cars automated become commonplace, you'll be able to order them build in some retro style for those who have extra cash and want to distinguish themselves from the unwashed masses.
Re: (Score:2)
In a hyper-clean futuristic world, it's likely cars would be assembled on demand, anyway. Since the sled itself would be standardized, a selling feature would be customers able to customize the body through a CAD application before it is printed.
People rolling around in personalized, retro-style rides would probably be more common than you think.
Value will disappear (Score:2)
Let's face it: Aston-Martins are not cars that people buy to use for their work commute. They are expensive and relatively small numbers of them are made. And as they age, they tend to become even more valuable. The idea of taking a valuable 1970 Aston Martin Volante and stripping out the engine and drive train to install electric motors and batteries does not seem like a good one to me. These cars will immediately lose all of their collector value and the owners' investment in them will tank. Knowing
Re: (Score:1)
These are owned by people with significant sums of money to recapture a dream. Making a 90hp-105ft-lb car that had 4 carbs and elect
Sounds scary (Score:1)
With the original ICE this car did 0-60 in 8.4 seconds. I have to wonder how the stock frame and suspension are going to handle that much extra torque. Additionally, this car did not have any sort of traction control. Will that be added as part of the conversation? I didn't RTFA, so I also have to wonder if the brakes are to be improved. I'm assuming it will have regenerative brakes. Then there's the matter that less than 2000 of these were built to begin with.
I spent a lot of my youth looking to go fast
Ripping the heart out of the car by going EV (Score:1)
Sad news that the heart of a vintage sports car is being ripped out to satisfy the supposed EV requirements. No self-respecting gearhead/petrolhead is awed by EVs; sure certain hybrids(Porsche 918, Ferrari La Ferrari). Destroying works of art to appears the EV requirements is a crime.
What about the transmission? (Score:4, Interesting)
Not going to happen (Score:2)
I will NEVER hack my classic car in this manner!
Tantamount to saying, "Oh look the Sistine Chapel isn't beautiful enough, let me paint half of it! I can make it better"
Yeah, that would do it.
Not.
This goes part and parcel with tearing down crosses on hillsides that have been there for decades, statues that have been around forever, and the destruction of historical sites by ISIS.
Some people are just assholes from the word go.
Re: (Score:2)
"Oh look, the Sistine Chapel has a bunch of cracks and the paint is so faded that you can barely make out the art. Let me call in the folks who painted it ( ok, that will be difficult, but bear with me ) and ask them to fix all the things wrong with it so it can be enjoyed for another 50 years"
Point of Order (Score:2)
Why is Aston Martin announcing their car offerings in terms of MPH and "200 miles of range?" If they are a UK company shouldn't that all be in metric units?
While I applaud this, there are problems: (Score:2)
Beware (Score:1)
Only do this if you want to wipe out the value of your classic Aston
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Feel free to riot
FIFY.
Re: (Score:2)