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Power Transportation

Tesla Is Rethinking the Rest Stop For California Road Trips (bloomberg.com) 111

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: In-N-Out Burgers has some new competition for attracting drivers on two heavily traveled stretches of California freeways that help link Los Angeles to Las Vegas and San Francisco: Tesla's biggest Supercharger stations yet. The charging stations in Kettleman City, off Interstate 5, and Baker, near Interstate 15, each have 40 stalls, making them the largest among more than 1,000 in North America, according to an emailed statement Wednesday. If filling up your Tesla takes half an hour, you might as well get comfortable. The Kettleman City station north of Bakersfield has a play wall for kids, a pet relief area and outdoor space for families. It's open round-the-clock, there's wi-fi and there will be food as well. But if you want to stretch your legs, the nearest In-N-Out is just across the street. And there are inevitable Tesla touches at both: solar-covered parking and Tesla Powerpacks.
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Tesla Is Rethinking the Rest Stop For California Road Trips

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  • 40 x 50kW chargers.
    That's a reasonably large grid connection they'll need.

    • by Rei ( 128717 ) on Friday November 17, 2017 @08:08AM (#55568825) Homepage

      Not 40x50kW. 20x145kW max. Each Tesla Supercharger (excluding the new urban superchargers) delivers a max of 145kW to up to two stalls, with a maximum of 120kW per stall.

      Most supercharger stations aren't battery buffered, but the new ones (and particularly large ones) increasingly are. This isn't designed so much as to provide backup power when the grid is down (although it will do so at low demand times) as it is to buffer out the surges between vehicles, reducing the peak draw and thus getting lower demand charges on their power bill. It also lets them incorporate the solar awnings (not the majority of the power delivered, but still useful).

      • seems like you've upset a few "haven't a clue" posters by displaying knowledge about a subject they know nothing about. :)
      • It also lets them incorporate the solar awnings (not the majority of the power delivered, but still useful).

        The solar awnings are mostly for show. If you do the math, they provide an almost insignificant amount of the electricity needed to charge the cars.

        Figure 5x2.5 meter awning per car stall. By your account, there's 20 charging stalls per station. That's 20*5m*2.5m = 250 m^2 of panels. Figure they're using 160 W/m^2 commercial panels. Assume they're tilted facing south angled at the station's l

      • by jeremyp ( 130771 )

        So an even bigger grid connection. 40 x 50 = 2000, 20 x 145 = 2900.

        And that's just for 40 cars.

  • by chill ( 34294 ) on Friday November 17, 2017 @08:11AM (#55568833) Journal

    You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night. Soon, where Toon Town once stood will be a string of gas stations, inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food. Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      That's great because I will sync my high fiber diet with car charging needs.

    • A truck stop for cars is what I'm seeing.
      • by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Friday November 17, 2017 @10:00AM (#55569469)

        "A truck stop for cars is what I'm seeing."

        Exactly If you ate that burger in the In-and-Out and the employee didn't wash his hands, you'll have amply time for the out-portion of that burger.

        • On my cross country trip this year,I noticed this was the norm for all rest stops on the eastern side of the US. I'm used to a dog run, picnic area and bathroom.All of the eastern rest stops were like mall food courts with a gas station. One even had a perfume shop(?!!) Who knew there was such a thing as a perfume store. And at a car rest stop? Actually, alI I could think was how horrible it would have to be to work there (but the guy owned it, so I guess he knew what he was getting into).
        • has a play wall for kids, a pet relief area

          And these two can be one and the same.

  • That's 80 fill-ups per hour. Truly, we are ready for a population using 90% electric cars.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      They have to start somewhere. You don't have to have the capacity to charge a population of 90% electric cars when the population doesn't currently have 90% electric cars. Just pace your scaling just ahead of demand and you are fine, no need to go overboard otherwise you suck at business.

      • That isn't "pace your scaling." It's called "scale to a natural saturation point." And that's about 10% of cars.

        It's slick marketing, though. Because the urban planners really DO want us to buy into something that can only scale up for about 10% of the population to have the privilege of owning cars.

        • Can you explain your âoenatural saturation pointâ?
          • Can you explain your fucked up Apple brand punctuation?

            The point is that we run out of the elemental resources needed to produce electric cars on the scale that the existing automotive fleet exists.

            Thus, cars become a rare luxury. And the common stiff rides the bus, where the bus allows him to travel.

    • That's 80 fill-ups per hour. Truly, we are ready for a population using 90% electric cars.

      Not sure if you're actively trolling or ignorant, but 80 fill-ups per hour is well overkill for 90% electric cars. The vast majority of electric charging will not be done mid trip. Some insider info: Oil companies are bracing themselves for not only a reduction in fuel demand, but also a massive reduction in retail service, which is of interest when you realise that is where their highest margin products get sold.

      • That's 80 fill-ups per hour. Truly, we are ready for a population using 90% electric cars.

        Not sure if you're actively trolling or ignorant, but 80 fill-ups per hour is well overkill for 90% electric cars. The vast majority of electric charging will not be done mid trip.

        I frequently travel to a popular holiday destination (660km between centres) that has a fuel station midway for people to fill up. Off-peak it sees 1200 cars per hour (some fill-up, some don't). Peak vacation time it gets 2500 cars per hour, and it handles this because filling up a tank with dead dinosaurs takes about 2 minutes.

        Whether we like it or not families will drive to their vacations simply due to cost. The fact that they can charge up at home is irrelevant when they have to charge up mid-trip. Righ

        • "Whether we like it or not families will drive to their vacations simply due to cost."

          Until the Hyperloop is finished, you mean? :-)

          • The nice thing about going to your vacation on the Hyperloop is that you don't have to fret about where you are going to go. No, you won't be going to an obscure park in Montana, let along Northern Minnesota.

            No, you'll go where the Hyperloop takes you. Either Vegas or Palm Beach.

            Get used to it, prole. You don't have the freedom to drive where you like anymore. That is reserved for the 1% now that we've killed the ICE.

            • :( My last three vacations went to Montana (two to northern Montana).
        • by torkus ( 1133985 )

          "Frequently" drive to vacation...3 or 4 times a year? This straw-man has been covered countless times.

          Also, do feel free to document 2500 fill-ups per hour. That's 100+ pumps assuming a highly-efficient 2-3 minutes total per car. Even if so, that's a highly unusual situation to have a single rest stop mid-way between two 600km distant points.

          And when EVs are commonplace enough, I highly suspect it won't be a problem. Instead of having to centralize a huge tank of flammable fuel, individual businesses ca

          • by Rei ( 128717 )

            Indeed, current superchargers are mainly in the parking lots of other businesses. Tesla gets to install them for free because the businesses love the idea of having people hanging around their business for 10-40 minutes, generally wanting meals and entertainment in the meantime.

            With the new approach, however, Tesla wants to capture that business for themselves. Understandable, really.

        • I frequently travel to a popular holiday destination

          How frequently? When people (especially Americans) use frequently and holiday destination in the same sentence I am further reminded that being able to service 80 cars per hour is incredible overkill.

          But side note: Notice that I didn't question the 90% figure? Maybe you're the 10% who can't justify the electric car? Or the further 10% who like me frequently travel to a holiday destination only accessible by a large SUV despite the fact I actually own a small hatchback.

        • they are going to have to stop a few times for a toilet break along the way so they can charge a bit each time.
      • The oil companies don't have much of a stake in the retail side of the gas station business. As I understand, most gas stations are small independent operations. They have a retail store to make up for their small margin on the gas.

        • by torkus ( 1133985 )

          Except for the part where that's how their product gets sold. Give or take a rounding error, zero consumers buy gas from anywhere other than a gas station. Or that's to say, virtually 100% of consumer (and a large portion of commercial) gas sales are via gas stations.

          So while they don't 'care' they also can't exist without them or some alternative.

        • As I understand, most gas stations are small independent operations.

          Your understanding massively varies by country and company. There are some oil companies that are 100% owned and operated by oil company employees. Others favour franchising agreements taking a cut of the profit (which brings us back to square one that it affects oil companies). Not sure on the specifics of California but I have yet to see any place anywhere in the world where the majority of gas stations are independent.

          But still the point is the same. Retail margins are huge compared to gas margins. The a

          • This article [247wallst.com] suggests that only about 3% of gas stations in the US are owned by big oil companies, I couldn't find world-wide stats. I do understand your larger point however. The local gas station model is doomed. While some will survive as electric fast charge locations, most street corner stations will disappear as people convert.

      • by torkus ( 1133985 )

        80 fill-ups per hour is (I believe) fairly high for a typical gas station.

        It's very, very low for a major highway rest-stop though. The ones along the NJTP have 20+ pumps and often a line...since it's illegal to pump your own gas in NJ.

        Home charging does alleviate a lot of that demand (but where will people buy overpriced chips and candy?) and I don't think most people have quite worked out that logic yet. Assuming you don't take long road trips, you may NEVER go to a 'gas' station to fill up your EV. Th

      • "It's about da oil companies."

        So 1980s. Yep. Big Oil. They make it expensive for me to own my Cordoba [wikipedia.org]. I can barely afford it on my UAW wages.

    • so we are going to hit 90% EVs overnight then.. amazing..
    • In an electric car world most charging will be done at home, most cars will start out at full capacity every day. The requirements for opportunistic refueling drop significantly compared to petrol cars because cars donâ(TM)t have to refuel on average trips because the tank just happens to be low. Regardless, complaining that there isnâ(TM)t currently capacity for a future requirements is hardly a cutting criticism.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    In-N-Out Burgers. Eww.

    • by Teancum ( 67324 )

      What is your point? While not gourmet food of a 5-star restaurant (it is still fast food), it is definitely better tasting than McDonald's.

      It is also California culture you are talking about. They have weird names for everything.

    • by umghhh ( 965931 )
      In-N-Out is a reference to an activity keeping our species going. It requires frequent in and out action for a short while. You just need to watch yourself and get a written agreement of all participants for a case 30y later when you may occupy a position of power to exonerate yourself. But that is another story.
    • In-N-Out Burgers. Eww.

      Too close to "better out than in" for comfort. (I'd give that 5 minutes if I were you!)

      Meanwhile... this sounds like the UK concept of the "Motorway service station" - a car park, filling station, and a franchise-filled mini-mall. Renowned throughout the kingdom for their cuisine*.

      (* Note: post from UK, may contain sarcasm**)

      (** Actually, they were destination restaurants for about 5 minutes after they first appeared in the 60s)

  • As much as I love In-n-Out burger... I don't really want to see it hispterised. I mean they do great food at reasonable prices (seriously Americans, this is what you do well, can you please export more of this and less war, violence and bad daytime TV). Seriously, the In-N-Out on Sepulveda blvd is a well known stopover for Aussie tourists travelling further afield in the US via LAX.

    Oh well, I guess we'll just have to wait in line with our heads hung as people with oiled and manicured beards that raise qu
  • Fun fact: if you leave your Tesla parked at a supercharging station for more than five minutes after it has charged, they charge you a $0.40/minute fee. Automatically billed to your credit card on file, which is required for using a supercharger.

    But what happens if you own a Tesla that has been rebuilt?

    (Car Guru - love this guy)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

  • Will there be free Tesla Kool-Aid? It seems quite popular around here.
  • I can see them having the charging stations, but targeting those in a hurry and have a compatible car: for the low, low price of $39.95 + tax, take advantage of our battery swap service; we'll have you driving again in 8.5 minutes.
    • by torkus ( 1133985 )

      Less time than that actually, but the demand was minimal so they scrapped it. Superchargers are easier and cheaper to build and, despite cries otherwise, people WITH EVs don't actually seem to be having all the doomsday charging problems that people WITHOUT EVs keep assuring us exist.

      • Less time than that actually, but the demand was minimal so they scrapped it.

        There is literally no evidence that they ever performed a single swap.

  • 30 minutes? Puhleeeze! People are willing to jockey their cars into the smallest spaces and enter the gas station the wrong way when one-way is clearly marked so they can fuel up and be gone as fast as possible. This needs to be done in 5 minutes max.

    • by torkus ( 1133985 )

      Well that's the funny thing! My EV never HAS been to a gas station.

      You see, I can charge it at home.

  • When I lived in San Diego, my biggest complaint about In-N-Out Burger is that they never have enough parking spaces and their drive through line is so long that it also blocks parking spaces.

    Now they are taking their limited parking and giving spaces to Tesla-only car charging. Own a Chevy Bolt/Volt, Ford Energi, Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid, Fiat 500e, Nissan Leaf, no charging for you.

    • When I lived in San Diego, my biggest complaint about In-N-Out Burger is that they never have enough parking spaces and their drive through line is so long that it also blocks parking spaces.

      Now they are taking their limited parking and giving spaces to Tesla-only car charging. Own a Chevy Bolt/Volt, Ford Energi, Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid, Fiat 500e, Nissan Leaf, no charging for you.

      I suppose Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, Fiat, and Nissan can team up and by a slot on the same side of the street as In-N-Out?

      Frankly, I can't remember ever seeing a branded charger from any of those manufacturers.

      Tesla paid to put it up. Tesla can (and does) make it car specific. Capitalism at it's best.

    • my biggest complaint about In-N-Out Burger is that they never have enough parking spaces and their drive through line is so long that it also blocks parking spaces.

      That's just an indication that demand is outstripping supply, and that more In-N-Out Burger restaurants are needed to meet demand. The "problem" stems from the chain being privately owned, and the family who owns it refusing to franchise. So they personally have to locate, finance, purchase/lease the land, and construct every new In-N-Out Burg

  • I'll keep my ICE so i can fill up and go somewhere that isn't a tourist trap thanks.
  • You standardize battery packs across the manufacturers of electric cars. Then you have "stations" where there are pre-charged battery packs. You drive in, take your depleted battery pack out and place it in a charging rack, and take a charged pack and put it in your car and drive off. Each car comes with a standard battery pack that ultimately ends up going out into the battery pack system. Sort of like gas cylinders for gas grills.
    • gas cylinders for gas grills can also be refiled ( can be cheaper)

  • California has damn few rest stops and MOST of them are closed most of the time.

    The same can be said for Truck Stops, after Exit 9 in Arizona on I40 inbound you just don't find many till Barstow.

    The economics of California actively discourages transportation infrastructure.

    Going outbound you buy just enough gas to get to Exit 9 in Arizona to fuel up where prices drop dramatically!

  • In the 70s, I could never drive from L.A. to San Jose, or vice versa without having to stop for a fill-up in Kettleman Shitty.

    40 years later it's still the same. But wait, Now I drive a ICE car that gets 30+ mpg and I can drive all the way through on less than a tank of gas. Or I can buy a Tesla and time warp back to 1977. Does that come with an 8-track tape deck and a Eagles Hotel California cartridge?

    Guess I'll pass on the Tesla.

  • This will be by the E6 highway, south of Oslo and near Rygge airport, construction has started and it is supposed to be ready in a month or so:

    https://electrek.co/2017/10/28... [electrek.co]

    Perfectly located if we need a charge while driving down to the Hvaler archipelago.

    This evening we needed to do some shopping on the way to Rauland in the Telemark mountains, so we naturally did so in Hokksund where Tesla recently opened a 20-stall charger by the Eiker Mall. Total time off/on the E134 highway was about 25 minutes and

  • Oh wait, those aren't thumbs!

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