Tesla Delivered Over 76,000 Vehicles In 2016, Falling Slightly Short of Goal (theverge.com) 179
Tesla delivered 76,230 electric vehicles in 2016, falling just shy of its goal of delivering 80,000 cars for the year. The electric carmaker claimed that "short-term production challenges" starting at the end of October were to blame for the shipment of fewer vehicles than anticipated. The Verge reports: Tesla said the transition to new Autopilot hardware resulted in the company's vehicle production being "weighted more heavily towards the end of the quarter than we had originally planned." In total, about 2,750 Tesla vehicles missed being counted as deliveries in the fourth quarter of 2016, which the company ascribes to "last-minute delays in transport or because the customer was unable to physically take delivery." Tesla said that even though those sales were counted toward 2016, the deliveries were not because the customers did not physically take possession of their cars. Tesla says about 6,450 vehicles are still in transit, and that their deliveries will be counted toward the first quarter of 2017. While it fell short on delivery, Tesla was able to beat its production rate for 2015. Tesla said it produced 24,882 vehicles in the fourth quarter of 2016, resulting in a total of 83,922 vehicles produced in 2016. This was an increase of 64 percent from 2015. Vehicle demand in Q4 was particularly strong, Tesla says. Net orders for Model S and X, which were an all-time record, were 52 percent higher than Q4 2015 and 24 percent higher than the company's previous record quarter in Q3 2016. "We were ultimately able to recover and hit our production goal, but the delay in production resulted in challenges that impacted quarterly deliveries, including, among other things, cars missing shipping cutoffs for Europe and Asia," the company says. "Although we tried to recover these deliveries and expedite others by the end of the quarter, time ran out before we could deliver all customer cars."
Looking Back (Score:4, Informative)
http://insideevs.com/tesla-pro... [insideevs.com]
In January of 2016 they were projecting over 3,200
http://www.fool.com/investing/... [fool.com]
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Re:Looking Back (Score:5, Informative)
3 years ago they predicted 100,000 in 2016
http://insideevs.com/tesla-pro... [insideevs.com]
In January of 2016 they were projecting over 3,200
http://www.fool.com/investing/... [fool.com]
The 100k prediction for 2016 was by a Forbes contributor, not Musk or Tesla.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ch... [forbes.com]
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The 100k prediction for 2016 was by a Forbes contributor, not Musk or Tesla. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ch... [forbes.com]
They usually get their projections from the company, and don't make up their own. Either way, I was just trying to get a little historical perspective on how their projections evolve. They've gotten better as one would expect and were pretty accurate at the start of the year.
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Seems Impressive to me (Score:1)
Seems like Tesla did pretty well against an aggressive target. I'm impressed, though I admittedly know next to nothing about the auto industry.
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Every negative comments in this thread about the viability of EVs and Tesla's general goal.
Koch Brothers work hard to push out negative info and bullcrap that the dimwitted will repeat. Things like DO THE MATH while they can't calculate how much gas they actually waste every year. Plus disk brakes. Plus oil changes & filters.
Heck. I spent only 48L of fuel in a Gen2 Volt for the entire year, saving well above 1000$ for the Canadian fillups, with about 100$ in hydroelectricity bill, just for driving 10,00
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I'm curious what math you're using.
Extra vehicle cost: 72000 (Tesla S) - 18600 (Mazda 3) = $53400
Cost of 20,000 city miles - 20000 miles / 29 mpg * 2.30 $/g = $1600
Number of years to payback: 53400 / 1600 = 33 years
Cost of 20,000 highway miles - 20000 miles / 39 mpg * 2.30 $/g = $1200
Number of years to payback: 53400 / 1600 = 44 years
Also consider the cost of electricity, and you will definitely find a Mazda3 on the lot for less than sticker at some point in the year both of which increase the payback t
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your maths are flawed, you compare 2 cars that are definately NOT in the same segment.
if you want to compare the tesla to an ICE, at least have the decency of doing so with way a BMW series 6 or 7, or something...
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Is there a reason why Tesla isn't expanding more aggressively in markets where petrol is more heavily taxed? Or is electric power also expensive in 230 V land?
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Is a manufacturer that sets up a factory in that country considered "domestic" enough?
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$2.30/gallon sounds reasonable for now in the US, but I think gas prices are a lot likelier to go well above that than much below.
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Ah yes, Mazda 3, that famous luxury supercar that beats all but a handful of the fastest cars on earth....
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Oh it's even better. When I compare the math of buying a Bugatti Veyron compared to stealing a bicycle I come out far cheaper when stealing a bicycle.
I assume that was your point when you compared a very premium car to a bottom of the line compact right?
Steal a bicycle.
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While 76,000 vehicles may seem like a lot, compared to other car company assembly lines that's actually quite slow. At full speed with all shifts running an assembly plant can push out more than 1000 vehicles a day. Most of the big car companies usually have upwards of 20 assembly plants around the world. Not all run at that capacity but it gives you some scale. If they can continue to solve some of the supply chain issues and further increase production they should be able to drive the price of the Tesla
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A fair comparison is that the same factory that Tesla is using now used to produce 428,000 internal combustion cars in one year, back when it was owned by GM and Toyota.
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If missing the target is considered to be "doing well".
Reserved Model 3? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Reserved Model 3? (Score:5, Informative)
With superchargers and some planning you can comfortably drive pretty much to any point of interest in the US - I have more than 50k miles on my 2 year old Tesla just from road trips.
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I went on Chevy's website, and configured a Bolt exactly the way I want it. I got all the way to the end... and there was no "BUY" button! WTF? How are they able to sell these when they forgot to even put a BUY button on their website?
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Available now? To whom? People like Woz, sure, they'll be delivering his shortly because it buys good PR. Regular people, not so much. So far Bolt is shipping only in CA and OR, in limited quantities and only if you reserved a while back. Of course, Model 3 is not available either, so as of right now, except for very few people, neither is available. However, I bet there are more Model 3 reservation holders that decided and actually took possession of a used Model S or even a new one, than there are people
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The Bolt's looking more and more like another compliance car. Notice they minimized any capital investment, outsourcing the drivetrain to LG and building it on the same line as the Sonic. They are only offering it in CARB states and at negative margins of 9k, which happen to coincide with the available ZEV credits. https://www.bloomberg.com/news... [bloomberg.com]
I think it's clear by now that Tesla is 100% committed to the success of the EV. If the ZEV requirements were dropped tomorrow, GM would ax the Bolt without he
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Straight-line acceleration just isn't that important. The Tesla can't corner for shit, which makes the acceleration a bit dangerous. Seating 5 adults? Some people care I guess, but the interior is just less nice than any competing long wheelbase car (all of which have plenty of room). It compares quite poorly to something like an Audi S8+, Mercedes S-class AMG, or BWM Alpina B7.
That's not a lot of vehicles (Score:1)
I am not a hater of EV technology but if your going to really make a dent you can't cater to the 1%. The people who could really benefit from EV technology are not the 1% it's the rest of us. Is Tesla trying to serve everyone? Or just a few? When Henry Ford made history he was making a vehicle for the masses.
Re:That's not a lot of vehicles (Score:5, Insightful)
That's exactly the strategy:
"The strategy of Tesla is to enter at the high end of the market, where customers are prepared to pay a premium, and then drive down market as fast as possible to higher unit volume and lower prices with each successive model.
https://www.tesla.com/nl_NL/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-plan-just-between-you-and-me
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Re:That's not a lot of vehicles (Score:5, Interesting)
I am not a hater of EV technology but if your going to really make a dent you can't cater to the 1%. The people who could really benefit from EV technology are not the 1% it's the rest of us. Is Tesla trying to serve everyone? Or just a few? When Henry Ford made history he was making a vehicle for the masses.
The Ford Motor Company was founded in 1903. The first mass market car was the Model T in 1908. Before T there was A, S and K that was their "Roadster", "Model S" and "Model X". It's just that hardly anyone remembers, because T became the famous one. If the giga-factory and "Model 3" pays off and sells millions, it'll be straight out of the same playbook.
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Re:That's not a lot of vehicles (Score:4, Informative)
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Hmm... predicted at 400 days. Given my standard x3 for implementation multiplier (for software, probably should be higher for hardware) for anything that long, I say "years" is probably accurate.
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Tesla was founded 9-years ago, and we're still years away from any mass market product.
Interesting you're so specific on years and the term mass market.
FoMoCo founded in 1903, but in 1912 they sold 68000 Model T cars.
Tesla 9 years after being founded sold 76000 Model S cars. Also in terms of total units sold Telsa is miles ahead of where Ford was after 9 years.
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Yeah.... you are a genius for making this comparison. Nothing has changed in 100 years to make ramping up a car company easier.
Not sure if you're implying that it's easier now to ramp up a car company? I would have guessed the opposite: lots more governmental regulations to meet now. You obviously couldn't bring a Model T car to market today - it would fail on so many fronts it would be crazy to try. Also, people's expectations of even a basic car are pretty high now. No electric start? No air conditioning? No AM/FM/BT/SAT/USB entertainment system? People have pretty high expectations even for a basic car.
Additionally, when the Mod
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Is it any worse than driving around with a tank full of flammable liquid in a car powered by explosions?
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I didn't get mine (Score:2)
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Did you order one? I didn't get mine either despite how much I want one. However I didn't order one because I'm poor lol.
Re:But.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Are they yet making a profit on each sold?
Very likely but how much is uncertain and their infrastructure spending on growth means they'll bleed quite a bit of red ink for a few years yet.
But they do need to get that under control, especially by improving the build quality and making cars that are easier to assemble & repair.
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What about the government mandated funds transfers propping up the gasoline car industry? Pretty sure tax subsidies to oil companies far outweigh subsidies going to incentivize EVs.
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Meaning that - even with the Government-mandated funds transfers from other car companies to Tesla, and the subsidies to Tesla, and the big buyer's subsidies from the Government - they still lose money
"Government-mandated funds transfers from other car companies to Tesla" - ZEV credits? That's not all that much money compared to their sales and Tesla gets ~50 cents on the dollar for those. Also, automakers can easily dodge those with compliance cars - I think.
"and the subsidies to Tesla" - which ones? The $5000 credit Fed credit? That's a tax credit to the buyer not to Tesla
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Between $12,500 and $35,000 per car [greencarreports.com] in ZEV credits - forced subsidies by other manufacturers. In 2012 ZEV credits were at least $119 million [insideevs.com] in the first half of the year. That's not insignificant income. And Tesla STILL loses money with that kind of credit.
As far as the Federal (and State, at least in CA) buyer's credit goes - why does Tesla advertise the subsidized price? Because it's easier to list as "starts at under $70,000" when you add in the credit on a $75,000 car.
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profit? yes from the subsidies payed by taxpayers and flogging off carbon vouchers.
ho, you meant profit from actual sales of cars, nope not a fucking hope.
The subsidies are paid to the buyers, not to Tesla so that's out.
The carbon vouchers / ZEV credits help but not as much as one would think. Tesla isn't able to see them for full market value and the total ZEV sales are much smaller than the overall gross margin on the cars.
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"Tesla isn't able to see them for full market value"
Sell, not see.
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Are you sure? I thought it was the model X
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You can't run the numbers because you don't have the future cost of gasoline.
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Or electricity
Re: Consumer Reports Calls the S model out (Score:1)
battery can account for one-third of the price of the car, which is why something like the Nissan Leaf or Fiat 500e costs about $30,000, while offering only about 100 miles of range. But those costs are falling, fast. Between 2010 and 2015, the average cost per kilowatt hour (kWh) dropped 65 percent, from $1,000 to $350, according to a recent report from Bloomberg New Energy Finance. âoeBy 2022,â the report says, âoethe unsubsidized total cost of ownership of [battery electric vehicles] will
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I don't believe the claim that "solar photo-voltaic electricity is now less expensive than grid electricity" as bare fact. This all sounds *great*, but when I ran the numbers on a solar installation at my house, I was disappointed. I needed to lay out $23k capital cost, to generate slightly over $600 of electricity per year. Even with generous incentives, my break-even point on the installation was at around 11 years, assuming no other costs on my end. One possible cost that was not included was that of
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> I don't believe the claim that "solar photo-voltaic electricity is now less expensive than grid electricity" as bare fact.
That only applies to utility-scale tracking arrays, not to residential: http://www.seia.org/research-r... [seia.org]
Rooftop residential fell to $2.98/Wdc in the 3rd quarter of 2016, while utility tracking came in at $1.21. Tracking systems tilt the panels to follow the Sun, and therefore produce more power than fixed ones on rooftops. So overall, the utility systems are about three times che
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Thank-you for your insight. That makes sense; my potential small rooftop solar system was priced at $3.72/Wdc, with some wiggle room in the price as indicated by the installer when I balked. I can see where a large utility system would have a lower cost due to economies of scale, tracking systems, etc.
I'm curious as to how the cost of land affects the utility cost, however. In a home rooftop situation, there is no cost for the land since its going on top of the structure that is already on the land. Bu
What's the ROI on any $80K+ car? (Score:5, Insightful)
There are hundreds of thousands of cars selling in that segment (high-end Porsches, Mercedes Benz, BMW, etc.). I can only think of one that seats 5 comfortably and does 0-60 in 2.5s...and that's why Tesla is cleaning up in that segment.
Different people care about different things, and everyone can spend their money on whatever they want. The only ROI that matters for personal purchases is whether the buyer thinks they got their money's worth.
For example, do you believe you got your money's worth on that "degree" from University of Phoenix? Then good for you.
Re:What's the ROI on any $80K+ car? (Score:5, Interesting)
There are hundreds of thousands of cars selling in that segment (high-end Porsches, Mercedes Benz, BMW, etc.). I can only think of one that seats 5 comfortably and does 0-60 in 2.5s...and that's why Tesla is cleaning up in that segment.
^This. I only have an anecdotal data point: I've spent a few days in Hong Kong and was amazed at how common the Model S is there. Residents there don't need to drive far, enjoy not having to pay for fuel, but definitely want something further up-market than a typical hybrid like a Prius so they can park next to their friend's/coworker's German luxo-barge without being embarrassed. The city is flush with money, so in an environment where basically price is no object it was nice to see so many people had chosen an American-made status symbol.
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0-60 isn't a relevant performance metric. Put a Tesla against porsches in any performance scenario (barring say a single 0-60 pull) and it will lose, the Porsche will do more 0-60s, will corner, and will pull away from the Tesla at high speeds. The Porsche will also have a better interior and better build quality. I'm not sure that too many people would seriously cross-shop the two brands.
Mercedes & BMW seem more likely to be cross shopped (ignoring M-cars and AMGs), however both will have significantly
Then why is Tesla selling so many $80K+ cars? (Score:3)
Why has the Model S get glowing reviews?
Is there really nothing objectively interesting about a whisper quiet luxury sedan that does a smooth 0-60 in 2.6s? How about one that never requires going to a gas station because you can charge it at home at night? How about the giant screen in the console? The excellent crash rating? Oh, right, those things are "not relevant" because you don't personally care about them.
This is standard /. zealotry. Start with the assumption that the only reason anyone could want a
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What strikes me about the zealotry is its inherent ineffectiveness. Don't like X? Don't like their success? Then understand what they're doing and why it's working. Sitting around and making up disparaging reasons or invoking the magic words "marketing" and "fanbois" serves no useful purpose.
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It's doing very well for the situation it's in, which is a new car company gaining market share and getting great reviews. If you don't understand why that is happening, you might want to figure out why. I'm not defensive about this; I'm interested in the thought processes. Tesla has something going for it that you don't get (and I don't know enough to understand). What is it?
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I have yet to read a post from someone who prefers his Porsche over his Tesla.
Maybe that is because you're looking for confirmation on the Tesla forums?
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That just about describes every American car ever made though and they have sold in their tens of millions, so it's hardly a barrier to making a car.
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Most of them also cost well under a third of what a model S does.
Then don't buy a Tesla, you dumb fuck. (Score:2)
It's not complicated.
Some people prefer electric cars. They're fun. (Score:2)
Deal with it.
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Depends on what you view as the investment and the return. From my perspective (as someone who is considering buying one as soon as I'm certain that they've gotten most of the kinks out of the Model X), energy costs are only part of the equation.
But just to confirm your assertion, assuming an installed cost of $3.50 per watt, 8 full-sun-equivalent hours per day, and a 40-year solar panel life (typical for current-generation panels), that comes to about 2.9 cents per kWh. A Tesla goes about 3 miles per kW
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500k miles really shouldn't be considered insane mileage. I know plenty of people who have gotten well over 300k on internal-combustion-based vehicles. Mind you, none of them would pass California emissions, but then again, EVs don't have that problem. They don't have transmissions (one of the weak points of ICE designs and one of the most commonly repaired components) or oxygen sensors or Nox sensors or fuel injectors or any of the other crap that makes ICE designs fail early and often. Unless the und
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No object that contains half a ton of lithium cells could ever be considered to be "completely green".
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The batteries can be recycled, and the batter factory will be solar powered. How is that not green?
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Few cars have a positive return on investment but that's OK because most people buy a car for transportation not as an investment.
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Only in straight-line acceleration, but so does a kid's muscle car. It's not a luxury car in any way but "smoothness" (no engine vibration), and even there it's not much better than the high-end German cars. At both the $80k and $140k price-points, the competition is nicer inside, has more luxury car features, is more reliable, and handles much better.
The Model S keeps improving, and maybe one day it will reach parity in everything but cornering. Today, however, its primary appeal is "green". The German
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Depends on whether the wind chill is below -20F/-30C/243K.
Car & Driver (Score:2, Informative)
Rank in Luxury Hybrid and Electric Vehicles
1. Tesla Model S
$72,700 - $110,700
(Beating out the)
2. BMW i8
$141,695
The Tesla Model S has benefited from constant revisions throughout its life cycle, but its looks have stayed almost exactly the same since it was introduced in 2012. That finally changes with an update for the 2017 Model S that brings it in line with the recently revealed Model 3 sedan and the Model X crossover. Gone is the faux front grille, which is replaced by a new front fascia with slightly re
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The Tesla Model S has benefited from constant revisions throughout its life cycle, but its looks have stayed almost exactly the same since it was introduced in 2012.
Why the "but"? That sounds like "the new version is improved, but it wasn't screwed up for no good reason".
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Does not have to be (Score:2)
You want a car to work, period. If you have to get it fixed it's a pain in the ass, even if it's free.
I'm not sure what Tesla has for a repair policy but if you take in a MINI to get fixed you can get a free loaner car, that you keep and use as long as your car is being fixed... That takes away a lot of the hassle of repairs.
Also Tesla it seems like could do much more than most auto makers in the way of remote diagnostics, so they could save you a a trip if you really didn't need to come in.
As Tesla expand
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How close is the dealership? Can you manage it on the way to work, or do you have to take a day off just to mess with something that should just work in the first place? This is the problem with any car repair - even if it's free, my time is valuable.
I was shocked to see my Infiniti make it onto CR's most reliable list; Nissan isn't exactly famous for reliability. But times change, I guess - Honda has slid far down from former glory, and Nissan seems to actually care, at least for the high end.
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How close is the dealership? Can you manage it on the way to work, or do you have to take a day off just to mess with something that should just work in the first place?
For me the dealers are a fair ways off, basically across town in opposite directions. About an hour drive. But I don't have to take a day off work, I can simply go early, pick uptake loaner car, and then go into work - maybe an hour of delay from when I would start otherwise. Then I can either pick it up in the evening, or reverse the pro
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Re: Consumer Reports Calls the S model out (Score:2)
I've had two minor issues with my Tesla. They drive a loaner Tesla to my office, drive my car to the service center, and then swap back again. No skin off my back so no big deal.
Re: Consumer Reports Calls the S model out (Score:2)
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Oh come on.Tesla is about the geekiest company in the world and one that is doing a hell of a lot of interesting things. Of course we're interested! I was just googling yesterday to see if the latest production numbers were out.