Microsoft Says More People Are Switching From Macs To Surface Than Ever Before (theverge.com) 376
Microsoft has been targeting Mac users with its Surface commercials recently, and it appears they might be paying off. From a report on The Verge: The software giant claims that November was the "best month ever for consumer Surface sales," following a number of Black Friday deals on the Surface Pro 4. Microsoft still isn't providing sales numbers, but the company claims "more people are switching from Macs to Surface than ever before." Microsoft cites "the disappointment of the new MacBook Pro" and its trade-in program for MacBooks for tempting people to switch to Surface. Again, Microsoft refuses to provide numbers but vaguely claims "our trade-in program for MacBooks was our best ever."
It's gone from one to two? (Score:5, Funny)
That would be "more than ever before"...
Re:It's gone from one to two? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, considering that the Surface is the first line of computers that Microsoft has ever produced, there are plenty of opportunities for record setting when measured against themselves.
From everything I have seen, the Surface is a pretty neat device and I think it is getting better with every rev. Also the Surface Studio is looking like a real winner. Still... Any time I hear a company tout their own sales numbers, I roll my eyes.
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Yes a 500% increase in surface sales might be what apple sells in a few hours.
Re:It's gone from one to two? (Score:4, Insightful)
Also the Surface Studio is looking like a real winner.
Winner or loser it seems like an extreme niche product. More like a symbolic jab at Apple about who is the artist's choice than anything that'll show up on the bottom line in a big way.
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The number HAS DOUBLED.
It now stands at TWO.
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are likely miniscule
Compared to what?
Compared to all the laptops in the world? Sure
Compared to high end devices? It's probably quite considerable considering they have a single line and lots of competition.
Compared to hybrids? They own nearly the entire market enough so that they started getting Apple interested in "iPad Pros" in a way that they colossally missed the point by putting iOS on it instead of OSX.
Re: It's gone from one to two? (Score:5, Funny)
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That would be "more than ever before"...
Your beat me too it. It would seem that a company heavily dependent on data could provide the numbers. The numbers could actually reveal the actual sales of Surface 4 parts.
Obliatory XKCD (Score:3)
If true, it's because Macs are starting to suck... (Score:5, Interesting)
However, I can't see myself ever going to a Surface. My main Windows laptop is a Dell Latitude that can double as a desktop and compiles quickly with a large screen. I also have a Windows tablet I use to surf the web, buy stuff and play Civ 5. But the Surfaces are just trash - hybrids for consumers, with no value for geeks.
Re:If true, it's because Macs are starting to suck (Score:4, Interesting)
i just went back to a desktop. except for my work laptop the Macbook and other laptops i've had rarely left the house and now i have a smartphone for that
the iMac or MBP, plus the applecare to pay for that hard drive or SSD that has a good chance of dying within three years plus tax and you're close to $3000 just to run the same Google Chrome as a Wintel machine for 1/3 the price or less runs
Re: If true, it's because Macs are starting to suc (Score:2, Insightful)
Are you really comparing a MBP to a Chromebook like they serve the same roll? Really?
Maybe you're just an idiot for paying 3k for a web browser but there is no Chromebook that can do anything for me that my MBP does, other than browse the web.
If you don't do anything other than what a Chromebook does, then you're an idiot for buying anything OTHER than a Chromebook.
Your post illustrates your shortcomings and in ability to buy the right product, not any of the flaws on the current MBP
Re: If true, it's because Macs are starting to suc (Score:4, Funny)
Why did this get modded down? This guy's right on: if you're a developer and your company gives you a Chromebook, you're probably mostly going to use it to hit job boards.
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unless you need it for IOS development Windows runs virtually every IDE out there along with all the graphical and other creation tools
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I had mod points and was going to mod him back up, but then I realized that he's not "right on." He got modded down because no one said anything about a Chromebook, and certainly no one ever said anything about a Chromebook replacing a MBP. So his post is irrelevant and off-topic.
Re: If true, it's because Macs are starting to suc (Score:5, Funny)
effluent idiots
They are full of shit!
Re: If true, it's because Macs are starting to suc (Score:4, Funny)
Isn't if funny how similar that word is to affluent. To be fair of my mistake, they both carry many similarities.
Re: If true, it's because Macs are starting to suc (Score:5, Insightful)
Except that affluent idiots (unless you really did mean effluent) arn't the only target market. A huge portion of the market goes to sysadmins, developers, etc, who use the machines for real work.
Those people consider the latest MBP to be a ridiculous pile of horse shit. I mean, Apple's lineup has been becoming more and more of a joke as the years go on, but they seem to be now at the 'lets just take as much piss as we can". I use a mac, and know a number of others who use Macs, because they provide the best of both worlds between windows and linux for the work that we do. The slight price premium was worth it for the dramatically lower number of headaches and bullshit one had to deal with.
Unfortunately, that's no longer the case. It's bad enough that the feature/price ratio has gotten significantly worse than it used to be. But now the products are just a fucking joke. Before they oh so generously cut the price on their dongles, you could easily spend $400-$500 in dongles just to reach parity with what you could do before. And of course, you are now required to carry around a dead octopus worth of cables to cover all the possible situations you may need.
This was fine when it was just the Air. That's what the Air was designed for. But pulling this idiocy on a laptop that is specifically meant for professionals? Someone needs to dig up Steve Job's coffin and repeatedly hit Tim Cook with it.
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chances are a wintel laptop will do just as fine but when it's other people's money they want a status MBP to show off. and apple of course will suck up all the cash they can in this case
Re: If true, it's because Macs are starting to suc (Score:5, Interesting)
But that's the thing... a Wintel laptop *can* suffice, but you have to set it up before it is. For example, cygwin is great and all, but it doesn't hold a candle to an honest-to-god bash prompt.
Using a Mac is basically what I believe using Linux *should* be like. It (for the most part) just works. The OS balances a perfect line between being drop-dead easy for people who arn't technically inclined, while being just a couple settings away from giving you all the power and control you could want. (And by control, I don't mean being able to customize the OS to whatever suits your fancy at the time. Being able to change your mouse cursor doesn't make you more productive).
They are, quite plainly, more reliable, and more predictable to use than any Windows machine ever. I moved my parents to Macs, my support calls went from almost nightly, to monthly.
Which is why I'm absolutely, utterly, livid that Apple is pulling these shenanigans. They had a platform that I *enjoyed* using, and they are doing their damndest to sabotage all that in an effort to maximize their already ludicrous profits.
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And "Adapter world" is only temporary, until the world catches up to USB-C, which is already well-underway.
The only reason Apple has to "design for the future" is because they don't refresh their hardware at reasonable intervals. When was the last time the Mac Pro was updated? But if you need high-end mac machines, that's your only option right now. It's a joke.
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No I haven't, because it's not designed for the real world. You know, the one where Ethernet cables, and USB 2/3.0 devices, HDMI, and SD Cards still exist and won't be going away for at least a decade.
This isn't like parallel, serial or SCSI ports whose days were very clearly numbered when Apple cut them off. Losing access to floppies was annoying but still grudgingly inevitable. But USB? There is no excuse for removing those. HDMI? It's still being actively developed! Their new MBP will be obsolete l
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You can stamp your feet and accuse people of being retarded idiots as much as you want. But that doesn't change the reality of the situation, which is that a large portion of Apple customers feel like they were just slapped in the face. Customer devotion is Apple's primary currency, and that currency just took a dump so hard you'd think Tim Cook deep throated a dozen Taco Bell chalupas.
I love how you're accusing people of being "idiots" and "retarded" when you're the one who sees invisible ports that don'
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Just bought a 2015 15 inch MBP - figured I have one more round before I give up on Apple entirely. It's a nice machine, nothing as good as it could be for a pro level tool, but functional.
But increasingly Apple is deciding that the 'pro' line is for people to hang out in Starbucks and do whatever it is they do intently peering at Facebook.
It was a nice ride, perhaps in 4 or 5 years when this laptop gets old and flaky Windows 11 will be pretty good. And Bernie Sanders cyborg will be president. And the USA
Re: If true, it's because Macs are starting to suc (Score:4, Interesting)
Apple is losing it, stupid hardware decisions solder in the ram, solder in the ssd getting rid of the escape key. They do good things too but seriously they are making things worse not better and picking the right mac even used is pretty tricky after the gpu problems they have had over the years. They need to make them repairable and serviceable. At least some of them.
Software wise they made that disaster of a program ibooks, that rips your books and pdf's out of itunes and buries them in a useless format in a hidden directory.
On a plus side you can get rid of it use app cleaner to remove ibooks and itunes use pacifist to reinstall itunes 11.4 then upgrade to itunes 12.5.3 then its nearly back to being good again. True to actually read an ebook on the mac you need to use drag and drop but i've still been able to make a central collection on my Nas that I can pull what I want when I want it and happily delete it from phones laptops ect when I don't.
Apple refuses to play nice with machines that are not made by apple android phone no way apple will sync with that. and why icloud for syncing why not let me do it on my lan
i'd love iTunes to handle my docs but so far I have only found iDocument for doing that. when you get used to filing by database and associations its a much cleaner way of doing things and gets rid of clutter and old dead files.
Re: If true, it's because Macs are starting to suc (Score:4, Insightful)
You know what? You're a classic abusive boyfriend that can't handle being wrong, so you prefer to gaslight people instead of accepting that maybe a mistake was made somewhere.
I've already left a more technical comment elsewhere so I'm not going to re-iterate, but I felt compelled to comment on this because I was just so awe-struck by your breathtaking arrogance.
Just because I don't deep throat Apple's reality distortion field doesn't mean "I don't get it". I've been using Apple products for a long time now, for the simple fact that for me, they do the job better than any competing product. But circumstances have changed.
But the raw facts are that Apple have all but abandoned their desktop lines, and have put out a laptop that is so myopically designed that they've all but given the middle finger to a significant portion of their customer base.
If you just skim through the various comments, you will see countless pissed off people who are either sticking with what they have, or are preferentially buying previous gen hardware when they have to. I have colleagues who have been utter die-hard apple fans for years, and they are saying the same thing I am.
If you really think that this many people "Don't get it", maybe you need to take a step back and ask yourself if maybe YOU'RE the one who "Doesn't get it".
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Yes, but you aren't the target market for Apple, effluent idiots are. They just use creative types for their marketing to make the effluent idiots feel cool.
Interesting. Nearly ALL of my Mac-owning friends are engineers (mostly EEs), and I am an embedded developer myself. The other two that aren't engineers are an Ophthalmologist (who is also a software dev.) and a friend that is a CPA, JD and CFE (Certified Fraud Examiner). Only one other acquaintance is a "creative" type; but since he is a "signed" musician that makes his living with his Mac, I'm not sure he counts as an "idiot".
Oh, and I don't know if you were trying to make a pun with "effluent" (sewage)
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no stupid, i just built a $1000 PC that plays games, i'll use to teach my kids to code, i can work on via hyper-v and not pollute the main OS with my work software, etc all for $1000. and if something breaks i can replace it piece by piece
i have an MBP at home. i don't develop for IOS so there is nothing OS X does that Windows doesn't do. for the road my wife and I have two iphones, two galaxies and two ipads
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Are you really comparing a MBP to a Chromebook
Maybe you're just an idiot for paying 3k for a web browser but there is no Chromebook
If you don't do anything other than what a Chromebook does, then you're an idiot for buying anything OTHER than a Chromebook.
Mentions of "chromebook" in the post you are replying to: 0.
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Yup it's downvoted because it's off-topic. No one ever said anything about a Chromebook except him. We can only assume he's trolling. Looks like the moderation system is working as it should.
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> You mean the same chance as the HD or SSD in your linux/bsd/windows machine?
Yep, the same chance as the one in your Linux/BSD/Windows machine.
But the drive in the Linux/BSD/Windows machine isn't hard soldered in. Replacing it doesn't involve buying a whole new computer.
Re:If true, it's because Macs are starting to suck (Score:5, Informative)
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I agree with this. However I buy laptops so I don't have to use the docking station (sometimes I just want to fool around with code in front of the TV). Happy to hear about compiler performance, though - it's about time!
Re:If true, it's because Macs are starting to suck (Score:4, Insightful)
Surface Pro4's top CPU: i7-6650U [google.com]
Average CPU Mark: 4889
Single Thread Rating: 1821
My laptop's CPU: i7 3940XM [cpubenchmark.net]
Average CPU Mark: 9378
Single Thread Rating: 2025
My desktop's CPU: i7 4770K [cpubenchmark.net]
Average CPU Mark: 10121
Single Thread Rating: 2255
[Side by side benchmarks of the above [cpubenchmark.net]]
I have no idea what you're using your machine for but it certainly won't fit a lot of people's use cases.
Surface vs. iPad (Score:2)
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It sounds like you need an architect more than a laptop.
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Re:If true, it's because Macs are starting to suck (Score:4, Insightful)
Cliche as it is to say, Apple has lost its way post-Jobs.
Apple Maps (Score:3, Funny)
Mac laptops just as useful as ever (Score:2)
If true, it's because Macs are starting to suck for geeks who really just want a dependable Linux-like machine.
Why? They work just as well for that as they did before. They are still much better at it than a Surface because all of the BSD UNIX utilities have been in the Mac forever, and MS is just starting to support things like a real shell...
That silly new "swipe bar", the loss of easy USB ports, and more.
The Touch Bar is really useful. It doesn't block Linux stuff at all because if an app does nothing
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The Touch Bar is really useful.
Okay, so the Touch Bar is really useful...but can you honestly defend the loss of USB ports?
If you lose your dongle or it dies or breaks, you're dead in the water. On any other laptop this isn't a problem, but on the MBP it's a make-or-break kind of situation.
I find the removal of USB ports to be a blatantly user-hostile design choice; there's no possible excuse for it except to drive the sale of dongles.
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macs are also becoming not very enterprise friendl (Score:2)
macs are also becoming not very enterprise friendly.
With the soldered in storage being a big turn off for some usages.
The lack of server hardware / the min being a poor fit for the roll. Also apple does not let run mac os in a VM on non apple hardware. (it can be done but apple's license says no)
Apples lack of OS downgrade rights
Apples tendency to drop ports and more on the fly.
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Uh huh. Sure. Please post a picture of you (or your "friend") actually using a Surface. No one would switch from a Mac to a Surface. They aren't even in the same space.
Remember the last time MS tried this fake "Switcher" bs? Turned out they were using paid shills and Getty Images for their "real" people...
Reminds me of the US version of The Office (Score:5, Insightful)
Pam: I doubled my sales from the previous month.
Andy (sarcastically) : Yeah, to 2 from 1.
Pam: Yep.
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Not only are their statistics vague (in that they're saying "more than before" without numbers), but they may be misleading. They're citing the fact that their trade-in program is doing well. It may be that people are trading in an old Mac they don't use anymore in order to get a discount on a Surface, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a new Mac isn't still their primary machine.
I mean, it's possible that people are trading in their Macs for Surface en masse, but I wouldn't trust Microsoft's claims
Re: Reminds me of the US version of The Office (Score:5, Funny)
1 0 (Score:5, Funny)
Okay, which one of you switched to Surface?
Re:1 0 (Score:5, Funny)
With apologies to Mark Twain:
There are lies, damned lies, and marketing.
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There are lies, damned lies, marketing, and politics.
People are switching! (Score:2)
Some Guy: We had 3 switchers!
Bill: Really? That's more than we have ever had before.
Laptop Replacement (Score:5, Interesting)
I got a surface at work to replace an aging laptop. I suspect a lot of surface purchases are of a similar nature. Microsoft may be cutting into Mac purchases, but I suspect they are cutting even more into OEM business.
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This. We just bought 20000 of the things.
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More than ever? Yeah right... (Score:2)
If the figures were really that great, why not provide them? Wouldn't that be a punch to the gut to Apple?
Click-bait (Score:2, Insightful)
No facts. Typical PR spin. Do we really need this kind of fluff trotted our repeatedly?
Tell it to the NFL (Score:5, Insightful)
Ask Bill Belichick just how great Surface tablets are.
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I'm pretty sure Belichick has a 30-40 point IQ advantage over you.
So, yeah. I'd trust Belichick's opinion over yours any day of the week.
Belichick prefers paper because it doesn't have the glitches that can happen with computers.
Given the NFL's track record with getting wireless headsets right, what makes you think that the problem is the Surface Pro itself and not just the underlying wireless service and/or the software that they are using?
But hey Belichick is smart, so he must be a computer, wireless, and software expert and knows exactly where the problem lies... right...
Bullshit (Score:3, Insightful)
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Nuh uh! A guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy says his company have all switched to Surface Pros!
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The Metro UI is actually not completely terrible on a touchscreen device
That totally wants me to go and get one! Oh well, maybe I would if I didn't know about any actually well designed and properly working touch screen interfaces.
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I don't have one nor do I ever intend to have one, but I did borrow one once to use as a guinea pig for an application I wrote for work (that was later installed on 6 field-model machines). It was OK, but I wouldn't ever have need of one for myself, I'd spend comparable money on a better laptop.
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The evidence is all around you.
Yes it is. I have two, and so do my friends. (See I didn't say I have one)
Oh and we just bought 20000 of them for work, and the local government just bought 8000 of them, my wife's school said starting next year the first grade will migrate from iPads to Surfaces.
The evidence is literally all around me. Now on the flip side I've only ever seen 2 Macbook Pros, and my wife hates using them, though given the Apple TVs and airports are being ripped out of the school I don't think the next round of staff purcha
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the first grade will migrate from iPads to Surfaces
Good luck to them. They're gonna need it.
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I was surprised to see my Honda dealer actively using them. Salesman used it as a wireless tablet in the lot to pull up specifics on different models I wanted to look at while we walked around, then when we went inside he docked it to a traditional monitor and keyboard and used it to get the paperwork going on my purchase. Only place I've seen one used, but it looked like a nice use case.
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To be fair, I actually *have* started seeing them in Coffee Shops, and a few of our employees have also started bringing them in.
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I'll try. I'm not a Starbucks goer myself, so I only see these things in passing while rushing around.
Any pointers on how I can take photos of random people without looking like a creeper? :P
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Actually, they were BYOD devices. At this point they're mostly a curiosity, but they're certainly interesting.
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I know you don't own a Surface. So just stop it already. The Surface is actually a pretty good piece of hardware - I didn't say it sucked. I just said they haven't sold any.
Well, I have a surface Pro 4... So they sold at least one...
I used it this weekend to draw out plans and write down measurements for putting my TV on the wall in One Note. I love the stylus and One Note. It's easier than pen and paper and I have a copy of it for future reference. I also use it at work for taking notes and when I am traveling as my portable computer. It reduced the weight in my travel backpack by about 2lbs.
The one problem that I do have with it is that while the Stylus is magnetic and
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Yeah. At risk of sounding like a shill here, but actually both of my biggest clients have several, and both are happy with them and adding more all the time. They both have software that needs windows so mac's aren't an option. At one the outbound sales reps are loving them; the company hasn't rolled out windows 10 yet, but allows for BYOD so more and more of outbound reps are buying their own; as well as a couple of the upper management have surfacebooks (they're 'exempt' from the regular roll out rules a
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I live in one of the most hipster towns in the US. I do work from one of the most hipster coffee shops in town. I'm seeing an evolution from macs to surfaces at said establishment. I've actually seen 4 surfaces and 1 mac in the shop on one occasion.
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Well, if you're just going to say "No you don't" to anyone who says they do, waddya want? Photographic evidence? I've seen them at work a few times, and from visiting consultants (if you have to run Windows by corporate policy but need something very light, they're a good fit). I've seen a handful being used in coffee shops.
But hey, I must be lying, eh?
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MS has BAD advertising policy (Score:2)
Citing vague stats as 'more than ever' is so blatantly stupid as to imply their buyers are swayed by such crap.
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Did you see the last American election.... clearly the people (of at least America) will believe whatever exciting BS you feed them. You just need to say it with conviction and believe your own lies.
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Well, they were going to give the actual stats but when they fired up their Surface to show the spreadsheet with all the statistics there were a bunch of pending Windows 10 updates that needed to be installed. So you'll just have to trust them that its way better and that the presentation would have been dope, and will be dope for real in a 3-4 hours or whatever.
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
Fake News!!! (Score:4, Funny)
There. I said it.
Mot to surface, but away from Mac (Score:3)
The new MBP has a lot of people looking at going to Windows 10 - those I know that are heavy users of Wacom tablets are definitely considering Surface but it has a lot of the same downfalls as the new Macbook "pro" - 16gb ram, poor port choice, not the greatest keyboard, etc.
When I point out to the Mac users in my universe that I could get them a Dell or Lenovo with 32 or even 64GB ram and a better CPU, more storage and better I/O port selection for a few hundred less than a new MBP, they tend to start thinking about how they could move their workflows to Windows or Linux. For the people I am thinking of, they would rather have a laptop weigh a couple more pounds if it means getting more work done faster.
MS isnt really winning any business here, Apple is throwing the business away!
So why are the new Macs selling so well? (Score:4, Insightful)
If everyone is so disappointed then why are the new Macbooks selling [techradar.com] so [fortune.com] well? [forbes.com]
I saw a story on slashdot a while ago claiming Mac users were switching to Linux [slashdot.org] as well.
It just sounds like hardware manufacturers are trying to cause doubt to get more sales, because the reality doesn't seem to show that people are switching away from Macs given they are selling so fast.
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pent up demand from Mac users who are one of 2 classifications
1: high end consumers who havnt bought a new laptop in 3 years because there really hasnt been a new one.
2: Pros who are absolutely locked into Apple ecosystems and want the most horsepower they can get in a laptop (even if its less than PC laptops) and havnt had a new one availible in 3 years or so. These are mainly xcode or Final Cut users, and Adobe CS users who have built up workflows with a lot of Mac Only tools that work along side the adob
Switching from OSX to Windows (Score:2)
is like going from bad to worse. No thanks.
Surface replaces iPad toys (Score:2)
I’m still okay with my MacBook Pro. We’ll see what kinds of futher crippling Apple does as time goes on, and I may be forced onto another platform just to get work done.
But as for tablets, it’s a whole other story. If you want a toy or something that the kids can use as an educational tool, the iPad is fine. I understand that there are some good productivity apps too, although accessing your files on iPad seems annoying to me. At this point, the only thing I use my iPad 2 for is to wat
It's not switching to. (Score:3)
It's also buying.
I am mostly MAC here and I bought a Surface pro to add to the tools available. It is not replacing my laptop, in fact my 2012 Mac Book pro is screaming fast with an SSD and no need to buy a new device that is only 15% faster and uselessly thinner.
Never going back... (Score:2)
I loaded Windows one last time when Windows 8 came out - and upgraded to Windows 10 on all of the systems used primarily for gaming in the household. That's when the problems started happening: I detected a large number of connections back to Redmond Washington coming from each machine. Taken together these connections brought my network to a stand still, primarily I believe due to NAT table conflicts and related resource issues on the router/firewall. I loaded Linux - and the problem went away.
With St
the paradox of reporting self-serving statements (Score:2)
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