Nokia Dials Back Time To Sell Mobile Phones Again (bbc.com) 128
Nokia said Thursday mobile phones carrying its brand will make a comeback via a new venture that will reunite the Nokia brand with veteran Nokia execs who aim to move into smartphones capitalizing on an existing operation that sells low-cost basic phones. From a report on BBC: It's thanks to a deal with a small team based at a business park on the fringes of Helsinki, who are engaged in what will seem to many a foolhardy mission. They call themselves HMD Global -- and they believe they can make Nokia a big name in mobile phones once again. I met Arto Nummela, Pekka Rantala and Florian Seiche in a cafe on what is still the Nokia campus. That very day Arto and Pekka had stopped working for the Nokia Windows mobile phone business owned by Microsoft -- because they had acquired both it and the Nokia brand to start their new business. Yes, it is complicated, but so is the recent history of what was just a few years back Europe's technology superpower and the biggest force in mobile phones. After the launch of the iPhone in 2007, Nokia faltered and by 2011 was on what its first American chief executive, Stephen Elop, called a burning platform. Then, the phone business was sold to Microsoft, which soon found it had made a disastrous purchase as the Nokia Windows combination failed to claim a significant slice of a market dominated by Apple's iOS and Android. Now, the Finnish business -- which remained a big force in telecoms infrastructure after the sale of the mobile unit -- has licensed the Nokia brand to HMD Global, which aims to take it back to the future.
Re: (Score:3)
Will he fix Nokia? More Trump news please!!!!
No. They're based in Finland. Hopefully he will follow through and eliminate nafta, cafta, and any talk of the TPP in order to level the playing field for American companies, though.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Great, which means we'll only be able to buy American-made cellphones, which means we'll be stuck with $2000 iPhones and their shitty walled gardens.
Face it: American companies haven't been able to build great products for a long time. Our cars have sucked for decades (not counting Japanese cars made in American factories; those are good). Our home appliances are all crap now that they've merged into one big company. We haven't built the best electronics since the 60s or 70s. We still make good CPU dies
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know man, I like American SUVs. The Eddie Bauer line of Ford Explorers were comfy as hell, and I like driving cars like Grand Cherokees and even old Dodge Neons.
Re: (Score:2)
All that wonderful glass, it was where all bugs went to die... and then dry out... crusty bug heaven...
OK, I may have been a bit buzzed back in the day...
Re: (Score:2)
No no no! If we're dialing back time for Nokia then we have to bring back the AMC Pacer...
Ahhh yes, the Pacer. Too hot in the summer, too cold in the winter. It turned "clearing ice from the windshield" into an Olympic sport.
Also, you had to remove an engine mount and jack the engine up a bit to change one of the spark plugs or the oil filter. I can't remember which it was now.
Re: (Score:3)
They screwed up the Grand Cherokee when they put that silly computer mode that shuts off the engine at stoplights and starts it again when you take your foot off the brake. Mopar starter motors are scary enough when you only use them once per trip.
Re: What would Trump do? (Score:3)
Actually American manufacturing is still tough to beat. China only beats us in quantity, but even then we're still the number two manufacturing country. Our main manufacturing exports are jumbo jets and earth movers, and both do really well.
Even in electronics, we still do quite well. We have the most advanced semiconductor fabs in the world, and we even make other parts like resistors, diodes, capacitors, etc. Sure, the final product is assembled elsewhere, but typically many of its components are made her
Re: (Score:2)
Our main manufacturing exports are jumbo jets and earth movers, and both do really well.
Uhhh:
Boeing had only netted three orders for the 747 this year. The sale almost doubles Boeing’s current backlog of 15 unfilled orders for the plane, according to the Chicago-based manufacturer’s website. The company said in July it was slowing 747 production output to six a year and would have to end the program if new orders didn’t materialize.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news... [bloomberg.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Jumbo jets and earthmovers aren't consumer goods. So I'll admit that America still makes some pretty good industrial equipment. We make some kick-ass rockets too (SpaceX). As for passive electronic components, I'm pretty sure that's BS; that stuff is all made overseas now. We still make high-value stuff like Intel CPUs. But we don't do the assembly for electronics now either; that's all in Asia now, except for military stuff which is very expensive.
BTW, the #2 manufacturing country for exports is Germa
Re: (Score:2)
Export value from US is bigger than from Germany by about 15%. The biggest export is from China. It is abut 42% bigger than from US. If EU could be considered as a single country then it would have about 5% bigger export than China.
Re: (Score:3)
"Great, which means we'll only be able to buy American-made cellphones, which means we'll be stuck with $2000 iPhones and their shitty walled gardens."
Walled? Didn't you hear, it will be a fenced garden.
Re: (Score:2)
Owned by Lenovo now.
Re: (Score:2)
It's a piece of shit: no removable battery or SDcard slot. Even worse, it isn't waterproof. That's a necessary feature on a modern phone; even Apple finally caved on this point.
Any better suggestions, shithead?
Re: (Score:2)
Will he fix Nokia? More Trump news please!!!!
No. They're based in Finland. Hopefully he will follow through and eliminate nafta, cafta, and any talk of the TPP in order to level the playing field for American companies, though.
By level the playing field are you using the Military definition of leveling?
Because reducing your trading market from 7 billion to only 300 million will do exactly that.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I hope they are successful. The Android vs. iOS competition has been giving most of us headaches for quite a while.
I wonder what strategy will they use this time? Will they make Marshmallow or Nutella phones, or will they redo their Tizen phones?
If they wanna do low end, that's fine, but here's what I suggest. Still have something like an Android/Cyanogen or Tizen phone, and keep some of the things that make smartphones better than low end. Like texting - retain the messaging app: typing is a lot easier that way instead of pressing 2 three times or 5 twice. Or simply keep WhatsApp there, and let it be a common int
Re: (Score:2)
What, specifically do you hate about Android?
Re: (Score:2)
I would love to see something like Rust replace Java for Android programming. The day any language that is closer to the metal replaces that memory hog, Android will be able to compete with iOS on equal terms.
Re: (Score:1)
Security
- bug track record
- bug fix record
- fragmentation makes finding bugs harder. There are many bugs in bloatware.
- bad TPM implementation
- locked bootloaders that interfere with the owner but not with forensics
- manufacturer/carrier backdoors
Software quality
- lots of basic bugs like alarm clocks that don't go off, calendar app doesn't sync reliably, flaily bluetooth stack
- "have you tried rebooting it"
- bloatware
Walled garden
Re: (Score:1)
> - you can't use Android without Google
Of course you can. For example Microsoft/Nokia X was Android with all the Google replaced by Microsoft, Nokia or other services. It sold well enough (mostly to anti-Google Microsoft fans) that Microsoft had to kill it and bury it.
Most Androids do sell with Google because that is what most people want.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_X
Nokia phones (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I am bitterly disappointed. I was hoping we could be moved somewhere near Hawaii. Bali. Or anywhere warmer, with better food, and further from France.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Elop was supposed to be terrible. The whole point was to depress the stock price for the coming Microsoft purchase.
Enjoy reading this comment on your Microsoft run computer.
Re: (Score:1)
Enjoy reading this comment on your Microsoft run computer.
That'd be something: my desktop has been Linux for twenty years.
Re: (Score:2)
Elop was hired as CEO...what do you think happened to the previous CEO? Hint: He didn't get old and retire, he didn't get elected Emperor of Finland. Actually, he was fired for doing a bad job. A quick Google says that under the previous CEO, Nokia went from 38% to 21% in just four years, and he hadn't been able to come up with an adequate response to the Apple iPhone that re-made the industry.
The worst thing you can say about Elop is that he took a company that was clearly already falling apart and in a
Re: (Score:3)
No. That would imply he at least tried to act in favor of the company's interests with a modicum of competence.
Say, do you know the "Osborne effect" - when a company announces upcoming products too soon and kills demand for the current ones?
Also, do you know the "Ratner effect" - when a company's leadership publicly attacks its own products, ruining their reputation?
Put them together and you get the monstrosity of the "Elop effect".
That lunatic stated that the still immensely popular Symbian was not competi
Re: (Score:2)
He sold a company that was in the process of going bankrupt to a big technology company that was desperate to enter the cell phone market. It was a smart move for the shareholders.
The company was going to shit before he was ever hired as CEO. Him saying "Symbian sucks" was just acknowledging what was widely acknowledged in the marketplace. It was certainly not immensely popular. It was a complete joke compared to the iPhone or even Android 2. No rational person would look at Symbian, iPhone, or Android
Re: (Score:2)
Nonsense! Nokia was nowhere near bankrupt at the time. By Q4 2010 they were consistently profitable and Symbian still led at ~32% market share. Yes, other phone makers had moved away from it, but Nokia's own sales were mostly untouched - iOS and Android had grown mostly by taking customers from Palm, Blackberry, and Windows Mobile. And as Symbian was a more lightweight system, it would be easier to put it on low-cost devices. Expectations at the time were rather positive - if they could keep advancing Symbi
Re: (Score:2)
Oh he did quite a lot worse than not turn it around. Several of the cellphone companies back then are still around in some form or another. With the cash reserves they had they could have done a lot better.
Re: (Score:2)
If Nokia starts designing handsets again, this time with Android, I'll be in principle interested.
Why do you care? Handsets these days are all just rectangle glass touch screens. And since the software is all third party there is nothing to design.
Handsets are commodity items my next one will probably be a cheaper Chinese version that does 99% of the name brand for 2/3rds the price.
No Symbian, please (Score:1)
But please don't bring back that horrible Symbian OS.
Re: No Symbian, please (Score:2)
I think Nokia has learned it's lesson about using outdated failures. If people wanted alternatives they would have sold more Windows Phones
Re: (Score:2)
first thing i thought also, Sailfish on a new Nokia might be worth looking at!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What's so bad about Symbian? (Score:2)
But:
1. It can run Angry Birds.
2. It can sync with a local PC, without depositing your address book and everything else on MS/Google/Apple servers
3. It used to be open source, before it became open ... for business.
4. It can run DOSBox.
There is a sizable market left out there (Score:2)
There are a lot of people who don't want smartphones. Nokia is legendary for its cellphones. Does this herald the return of the dumb phone?
Re: (Score:2)
After you snap a picture of what you are seeing and are able to send that by email while at the same time check out a video of somebody goofing around, making a comeback to a dumb phone will only happen if you are broke or something.
Re: (Score:3)
I'd love to go back to one of their old candy-bar style phones that did nothing except be a phone. I don't care about texting. I don't care about data. I don't care about music. I don't care about photos. I don't care about video. I don't care about apps.
I had my fun with smartphones over the years. I've changed.
I want a phone like I had 15 or so years ago: One I can charge once every other week whether it needs it or not. Something with actual buttons that I can operate by feel, without having to
Re: (Score:1)
They still sell these for old people. Amazon shows the Kyocera Rally S1370, for instance.
Re: (Score:1)
Define "a lot" in hard numbers and do provide the methodology at which you came at that number.
Re: (Score:2)
Does this herald the return of the dumb phone?
Please oh please yes please please please ..... specifically, a phone that lasts 30 days between battery charges, and which isn't a fear-inducing mess of security holes needing constant updates (i.e. small attack surface please). Also, just a phone please. Don't need a camera built in - already have better cameras, that are just cameras.
You can give it a flashlight function if you must - I might have very occasional use for that. But I will never want to surf the web on a goddam phone, okay ?
Re: (Score:2)
I still have a nokia phone -- my sixth in a row. Still with buttons. Best voice quality, small, light, not too-thin-to-hold. It's not my computer. It's my phone.
So, for all of those people who can't actually work on a phone -- because our work is bigger than a phone, in the same way that a general contractor can't use a swiss army knife to build your house -- a great phone with buttons beats out a big phone with a touch screen every day.
I'm happy to spend another $300+ on a nice durable quality phone with b
Re: (Score:3)
Cranky old men who used to work menial IT jobs, have been downsized, and now post on Slashdot with 4 or 5 digit userids.
But will it run (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I sincerely hope so... the cost of a "Linux capable" platform is so low today as are the power requirements. Would you rather carry a bulletproof cellular telephone that costs $30, or a bulletproof cellular telephone with a fully functional computer embedded for $35?
Re: (Score:3)
Firstly, Android is Linux. But in the sense meant here, no. Quote from elsewhere [prnewswire.com]; "Future Nokia smartphones will utilise Google's Android operating system, currently deployed on 86% of the world's smartphones."
Bringing another OS into play in a market that is sewn up by two major players is pretty much guaranteed to fail, and I really don't see what a Linux phone would do for the average consumer. Do really think Nokia/HMD Global should waste millions of Euros in R&D to develop a Linux phone distributio
Maemo (Score:2)
Ah, do you mean something like this [wikipedia.org]?
Nokia already did "waste millions of Euros in R&D to develop a Linux phone distribution". They would just be returning to their own project.
Re: (Score:2)
Kind of like the two party political system, eh?
Jolla is a Nokia spinoff that's trying to meld Linux/Android functionality into a single platform, I lost track of them after they failed to deliver my tablet - not interested in their phones that don't work in my country.
Linux on Nokia hardware (Score:2)
Firstly, Android is Linux. But in the sense meant here, no.
I think the parent poster might be referring to GNU/Linux.
Android does use the Linux Kernel, but slaps a completely different user space atop of it.
(Mostly written in "I Can't Believe it's Not Java(tm)" in addition a few core libraries replaced with alternatives that have non-GPL licensing, like the Bionic C library).
Bringing another OS into play in a market that is sewn up by two major players is pretty much guaranteed to fail
...except if that 3rd OS does run the Apps of one of the 2 major players.
Which is exactly what *Windows* failed to do (Android apps never got supported, at least the technology got recycled int
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I sorely miss my Moto810 feature phone. It had a camera, it did e-mail, it lasted a week on a charge.
When I say "I want Linux" - what I want is a desktop (can be LXDE or similar, but at least a task launch menu and multiple windows), I want a functional terminal on that desktop, and I want a package manager that can install a reasonable subset of the stuff you can get from Debian, or similar. I also want to be able to write custom software on a reasonably standard desktop system, with access to a reasonab
Not going to succeed. (Score:1)
Nokia made good phones back then. Phones consisted of strong plastic, antenna, and black and white LCD screen. Now smartphone needs good AP, OLED screen, camera, metal/glass casing, waterproof, good battery, etc. I don't think Nokia has skills on any of those. They'll probably come up with something similar to Blackberry Priv.
I'm sure Nokia has some talented engineers, but they are competing with Apple/Google/Samsung engineers who already has a decade of experience of building smartphones and extremely tale
Re: (Score:1)
Nokia doesn't have any experience building a good smartphone? You've never seen a Lumia have you? You think they've been doing nothing these past few years? Even while shackled to the MS ecosystem they were still building good hardware. If the Lumia had Android it would have sold well. From a construction and design point of view it was well built, sleek and had good battery life. The PureView camera that Nokia developed was fantastic for its time and shows that Nokia can still put together an impressive pa
Dare to be different! (Score:5, Insightful)
Build phones with a replaceable battery, with actual keys to type in a phone number or to flip up/down in the phone book, with slots for SD cards and plugs for micro USB.
I know it sounds crazy, but I have that odd feeling that there just MIGHT be a market for something like this.
Re: (Score:2)
How about a Nokia 3310, but with 4G and a wifi hotspot for your Nokia PC/tablet?
Maybe they cannot compete in a world of $29 Android devices, but they could build PRO laptops and PRO tablets. With USB ports, Courage(tm) sockets, SD card slots, full HD screens and plastic shells with varied designs.
Re: (Score:3)
It IS crazy. You might as well buy a netbook computer, because that's how big and clunky the thing will be. There's simply no room on a modern 5.5" screen cellphone to put a physical keypad; either it's going to be huge (5.5" screen plus fixed keypad or keyboard), or it's going to be a slider, which have proven to have mechanical problems plus they're super-thick (this coming from someone who'd happily accept more thickness in exchange for a bigger battery). Not only that, the keypad will have limited us
Re:Dare to be different! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Where's the profit in that? If a phone lasts too long they can't make money selling you a new one, and providing updates for old phones is just a money sink from their PoV (unless they charge for updates, but you'd crucify them for that, too), Lack of updates for phones isn't new - even in Nokia's heyday (5110, 8110, 8850, 8210 etc.), firmware updates were relatively rare, and you had to pay a service centre to install them for you.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1)
Jolla Phone keyboard (Score:3)
or it's going to be a slider, which have proven to have mechanical problems
3rd party have successfully designed keyboard which are magnetic slide.
(No mechanical parts. Just carefully aligned magnet that accept 2 stable positions. Either the keyboard stuck to the back of the smartphone, or stuck in "slide out position" with the keys available for typing and the pogo-pins aligned with the contacts).
I you don't want the keyboard, you just remove it (un stick it).
This of course requires the availability of pogo-pins.
Jolla's phone and Fairphone's phone 2 were both designed with extra p
Re: (Score:2)
The removable keyboard bit sounds interesting, but for the non-Android OS that runs Android apps from Google's Play store, 1) has anyone actually demonstrated this is feasible, and 2) is it legally possible (would Google lock out such an OS)?
Apps on Non-Adroid OS (Score:2)
has anyone actually demonstrated this is feasible,
As mentionned above, Myriad's Alien-Dalvik has and is the official commercial solution powering the Jolla Phone in my pocket (and what I use with countless android apps).
I think I remember that this was also the official solution use by BlackBerry back when they offered Android Apps support on their (non-android) OS.
This was also a solution considered for HP/Palm's webOS... but the whole platform went belly up before commercial deployment.
SFDroid is another solution for SailfishOS, but opensource and thus u
Re: (Score:2)
I actually did have a phone with a tiny keyboard you could flip out underneath. Granted, it was a hint thicker than 2mm, but not much thicker than a contemporary iPhone with its "keeps the tinfoil phone from crumpling in your pocket" protection cover. And it didn't need a cover, so...
Re: (Score:1)
You might as well buy a netbook computer, because that's how big and clunky the thing will be. There's simply no room on a modern 5.5" screen cellphone to put a physical keypad; either it's going to be huge (5.5" screen plus fixed keypad or keyboard), or it's going to be a slider, which have proven to have mechanical problems plus they're super-thick
What a load of crap. My Samsung slider isn't even 12mm thick; that's considerably thinner than other things I carry in my pockets, and thinner than the feature-phones people happily carried for years. No, it doesn't have a 5.5" screen, but many of us don't see any need for a fucking 5.5" screen either - particularly not when we have a physical keyboard. And it has a removable battery and an SD card slot.
Physical keyboards may not be popular with smartphone buyers, but that's not because they make phones too
Re: (Score:2)
Just go and get a Blackberry Passport or Classic. Everything you are asking minus the replaceable battery. Does not seem to be faring well.
The keyboard thing does not make sense though, not only because its size, but as soon as you need to type stuff in a different language, it becomes painfully obvious you need another system in place.
Re: (Score:2)
As good as gorilla glass is now, they could probably make a phone with a big touch display on one side, and a smaller display and a keypad on the other. Seems like that would satisfy everyone, except those who want a replaceable battery. It would be thicker, but that's OK.
Re: (Score:2)
but I have that odd feeling that there just MIGHT be a market for something like this.
It's competing with all the other phone targetted at grandparents.
As much as you think there's a market for this, 100 slashdot users don't really count. Remember the market itself has chosen.
Re: (Score:2)
What market has chosen? Apple has chosen to produce an iPhone and people can buy it or not have an iPhone. And people buy it.
Remember how market economy was supposed to be? Suppliers offering choices and people being the decider what sells and what doesn't? What choice do I have? If I want a more or less modern phone, I have to swallow that it's going to have a soldered battery with an anemic lifetime because it's paper thin, along with the phone not being much thicker and needing a protective cover so it d
Re: (Score:2)
What market has chosen? Apple has chosen to produce an iPhone and people can buy it or not have an iPhone. And people buy it.
One company, let's broaden the example. Apple introduces a phone without a keyboard and no interchangable battery. In the mean time the market is flooded with various other phones including those with full keyboards, flip phones, ports, batteries and whatnot. Over time the keyboards disappear? Why? Same reason the stock prices of the vendors' products plummeted, no one bought that. Even within a vendor you can see trial and trends. Good old Samsungs had always had an interchangable battery right up to the S
Re: (Score:2)
Build phones with a replaceable battery, with actual keys to type in a phone number or to flip up/down in the phone book, with slots for SD cards and plugs for micro USB.
I know it sounds crazy, but I have that odd feeling that there just MIGHT be a market for something like this.
Really? Because outside of nerd forums I see no real demand for any of this. And even in here most people don't care for it.
USB charging is good, so you can use anyone else's charger, and a head phone jack is good, because most people don't own stupid BT headphones. But outside that the rest is negligible.
Will buy it blindly (Score:2)
For the last 16 years, I have been using Nokia phones except for 1 HTC phone in between. My current phone is a Lumia. I bought it mainly because it's a Nokia. If Nokia makes phones I again, my next phone will also be a Nokia - I don't care what software it runs.
Re: (Score:1)
Is an upgradeable open source OS too much to ask, though? And no Microsoft, Google or Apple.
Re: (Score:2)
We need a nickname like this for Trump. "Crooked Hillary" is totally apt and accurate, but Trump is equally bad, just in different ways (looking at his cabinet picks here at the moment...), so he needs a suitable nickname in the same vein.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
We need a nickname like this for Trump. "Crooked Hillary" is totally apt and accurate, but Trump is equally bad, just in different ways (looking at his cabinet picks here at the moment...), so he needs a suitable nickname in the same vein.
"Trumpster fire".
Re: (Score:2)
No, not really. That's a good list and all, but "Hitler II" just doesn't have a good ring to it, the way "Lyin' Ted" or "Crooked Hillary" do, and more importantly, "Hitler II" doesn't actually have Trump's name in it! It's not obvious that it's referring to Trump because of this; someone could think you're talking about Erdogan or Putin. I'm looking for a catchy nickname that actually has either "Trump" or "Donald" in it, just like his nicknames for his opponents. Something with alliteration would be be