New Intel and AMD Chips Will Only Support Windows 10 (pcworld.com) 585
An anonymous reader writes: Buried in the announcement of the new Kaby Lake (seventh-generation) processors and a rash of incoming notebooks set to use them is the confirmation that they will have a Windows 10 future. Microsoft has been warning people for ages that Kaby Lake will not run on anything older than Windows 10, and it looks like AMD's upcoming Zen chip will be going the same way. Microsoft said, "As new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support. This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon, while maintaining maximum reliability and compatibility with previous generations of platform and silicon." "We are committed to working with Microsoft and our ecosystem partners to help ensure a smooth transition given these changes to Microsoft's Windows support policy," an Intel spokesperson said. "No, Intel will not be updating Win 7/8 drivers for 7th Gen Intel Core [Kaby Lake] per Microsoft's support policy change." An AMD representative was equally neutral. "AMD's processor roadmap is fully aligned with Microsoft's software strategy," AMD chief technical officer Mark Papermaster said, via a company spokeswoman. Slashdot reader MojoKid via HotHardware has some more details on Intel's Kaby Lake 7th Gen Core Series Processors for those yearning to learn more.
Goodbye Windows. (Score:5, Insightful)
Hello Linux
Hello Wine (Score:3, Funny)
Wine is often sufficient.
Re: (Score:2)
Good point.
Re:Hello Wine or... (Score:5, Funny)
When dealing with Some aspects of the m$ ecosystem, wine is completely inadequate; start with a good single malt Scotch and work from there...
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I think you have it the wrong way round. When dealing with some aspects of the Micros~1 ecosystem, wine is completely inadequate; start with special brew.
Re:Hello Wine (Score:5, Funny)
> Wine is often sufficient.
No, it stands for Wine Is Nearly Enough
Re: Hello Wine (Score:3)
I've done native code on Windows in industrial safety and automation. You'd think that's an oxymoron, but it can be made sufficiently robust.
I've dealt with bugs in Microsoft's SDKs, and dealt with multiple generations of drawing APIs. Played WoW and other games on WINE on Gentoo. Watched the incessant scrolling of FIXMEs on the console.
I'd love it if I could get paid to hack on WINE...
Re: Hello Wine (Score:4, Insightful)
> Find an open source equiv app
Some times there isn't one. Games are the biggest deal for this.
Re:Goodbye Windows. (Score:5, Insightful)
I expect UEFI lock down will soon prevent Linux from being installed.
Re:Goodbye Windows. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Goodbye Windows. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Goodbye Windows. (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux developers will have it cracked and running any distro within a few days, AMD & Intel is not going to shoot themselves in the foot, microsoft might commit corporate suicide
And I would be surprised if Intel and AMD didn't actually help Linux developers do it.
This whole thing smells of Microsoft trying to sell more Windows 10, not Intel and AMD trying to sell fewer chips.
Re:Goodbye Windows. (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
And do they actually need "support" in order to work? Did they change the instruction set finally? Encrypted the whole thing so you need an MS signed cert?
Re: (Score:3)
Because it's Microsoft. We've seen these tactics before. We see what they are capable of as well as what they want.
They want a world where there is no alternative. The fact that they are getting help from chip makers is the only thing that is new about this. Embracing "open source" is Microsoft's way of infecting it and in their mind, hopefully destroying it.
Re:Goodbye Windows. (Score:5, Informative)
AFAIK this is only about Microsoft choosing to support chip features in Win 10 only, not that the chip manufacturers are barring other OSes. If that assumption is right then I don't understand why such a misleading submission was posted without correction on Slashdot.
Re:Goodbye Windows. (Score:4, Interesting)
The push to force Windows 10 has now reached absurd proportions. Windows 7 is going to be my last version of Windows, and that means I won't be buying new Intel or AMD processors if they are going this route. Windows 10 is not particularly popular in its current form, so I am not at all sure why other companies would want to jump on that shit wagon.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Replying on my CI20 running Debian 8.
I use this machine mostly as a home jukebox system (Attached to the PA system.) And sometimes for lite web browsing if I'm in the garage (where it sits by the main for the PA system.)
MIPS is trying to become relevant again. There are a couple of Russian workstations coming out on the Baikal T-1 and Imgtec is still trying to establish their footing in the embedded board arena. (Thus the CI20 i'm on.)
For general desktop use, this baby can handle websites like /. (but not m
Re: Goodbye Windows. (Score:4, Informative)
Or my favorite, the DEC Alpha...
Re: (Score:3)
It still is...
It's not easy getting an Alpha to boot from a SSD, but with enough patience, it can be done. It's also not easy getting said Alpha to support USB 3.0, SAS, a Radeon HD card (with HDMI output), etc....but it can be done.
God willing, I will have Half-Life up and running on this machine sometime later this year.
Re:Goodbye Windows. (Score:4, Informative)
Erm... Linux runs just fine on numerous ARM designs, and the hardware can happily support modern applications as well. Have you used an Android phone lately, as perhaps the most recognisable example of this actually being done?
Linux supported by UEFI (Score:5, Informative)
I expect UEFI lock down will soon prevent Linux from being installed.
Linux is already supported by UEFI. The major Linux distros have paid the one-time US$99 fee to be able to get their code on the UEFI supported list.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Only until Microsoft changes its signing certificate.
Then they won't work anymore. Just like it didn't work for Windows RT devices.
Re: (Score:3)
Microsoft effectively can't refuse access to their signing system. Even if the US doesn't prosecute for anti-competitive practices, the EU certainly will.
Re:Goodbye Windows. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
If this is something that would be, say, an antitrust violation, it really doesn't matter unless the government functionaries are willing to take them to court.
Well, that has happened before. [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Sounds like Android ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Hello Linux
Goodbye Windows. Hello Linux
Why? This affects no existing hardware. Its just that future hardware will not support Windows 7 and 8.
And frankly this is pretty much what happens under Android too, a chip vendor developing some new chip's drivers only for the current Android version. Will that make Android/Linux fans flock to iOS when they learn their Samsung Galaxy S8 can not run Android 4.4?
Re:Sounds like Android ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Intel chips still support Windows XP. Funny how all of a sudden Windows 7 will be such a pain to support for future architecture.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm saying there will probably be very little demand for Windows 7 support from consumers buying the latest and greatest motherboards in the future and building their own system.
If there is so little demand and nobody builds their own systems why is there such a huge selection of motherboards, cases, processors and peripherals to chose from? Not just online but local retail? Why do vendors bother printing skulls and overclocking shit and gimmicky doohickeys on their motherboards?
You can make arguments on a percentage basis yet given numbers involved even a few percentage points easily represent millions of paying customers.
To be clear, you understand that this move by Intel and AMD does not change Windows 7 support on any existing motherboards, that their decision only applies to future motherboard designs? No existing chip designs are losing support.
Nobody is confused about this. What Intel is actually do
Re:Goodbye Windows. (Score:5, Interesting)
What about Linux? Microsoft's Kaby Lake support or lack of it appears to be based on detecting the processor version, and not any lack of backward compatibility in the chip architecture.
Re:Goodbye Windows. (Score:4, Insightful)
Linux will probably support the chips before Windows does.
It is a practical certainty that Linux already supports Kaby Lake and that no special code is/was needed. It is also a practical certainty that Intel tested the new chips with Linux extensively, including performance testing, given how much of their business depends on Linux these days. Compilers and support libraries will need updates to take advantage of the new media and crypto instructions, no big hurry there, but indeed, Linux is likely to have these optimizations before Windows does.
Re:Goodbye Windows. (Score:5, Interesting)
To give you some perspective. I use Win7 as my home/gaming OS and Linux as my work/dev OS. I went to Win10, tried it for a month, grew to hate it. Went back to Win7 to wait for Win10 to improve in a few more years. But if MS doesn't want to give me the option to avoid Win10 then I'll just start finding a way to work Linux into being my full time OS.
Re:Goodbye Windows. (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder why this comment is rated as insightful.
Because people found it insightful. The moderation system is not that complicated.
For a Windows 7, Windows 8 or whatever version of Windows user but 10, the alternative is not Windows 10 or Linux.
That's true. They could also become a Mac user.
If he cannot keep his old version of Windows, he will jump to Windows 10 which is much more similar to his computer experience than Linux.
It is in one significant way: software support. In any other way, it really is not.
This user is not driven by irrational hate against Microsoft and Windows since he would like to continue to use an older version of Windows.
I'm not driven by irrational hate. I'm driven by rational dislike and distrust. Windows 10 is spyware on a level that I won't permit on my network. I can (so far) keep that stuff out of my Windows 7, with some effort. I won't be buying any software which requires Windows 10, ever. So long as I can keep a machine running Windows 7, which I should be able to do with hardware on hand for the foreseeable future, I don't give a fig for Windows 10.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I already use Linux as much as I use Windows already. So luck has nothing to do with it.
Re:Goodbye Windows. (Score:5, Funny)
> Fuck Linux.
I mean, Linux is pretty hot, but... I can't find any holes!
Linux and ReactOS (Score:2, Insightful)
Microsoft is shooting themselves in the foot, and it will bleed out.
linux etc (Score:4, Insightful)
ok.. so... im fine in principle if intel and microsoft aren't interested in porting chipset drivers backwards for old windows versions.
I presume that this isn't creating windows 10 lock in though; and that linux / bsd / etc will be fully supported?? Or am I mistaken?
And also, is if things are that different, does it mean only a next-generation kernel version will run on them?
I'm also curious about virtualization? Can old windows versions run in virtualization on these new chips?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
> I presume that this isn't creating windows 10 lock in though; and that linux / bsd / etc will be fully supported??
Sounds like the lock-in is specific to versions of Windows. I think we would have seen folks in the Apple Universe flip their shit by now otherwise.
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> I presume that this isn't creating windows 10 lock in though; and that linux / bsd / etc will be fully supported??
Sounds like the lock-in is specific to versions of Windows. I think we would have seen folks in the Apple Universe flip their shit by now otherwise.
This is the first I've heard of this; but I don't like the sound of it, not one little bit...
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I presume that this isn't creating windows 10 lock in though; and that linux / bsd / etc will be fully supported?? Or am I mistaken?
I'm wondering if this is where they employ the 'secure boot' where the OS needs an Intel/MS-signed key for the chipset to run it. If that's the case, then Redhat and Ubuntu may be the only non-MS OS'es with the wealth to pay the extortion money demanded by MS/Intel to get a key signed.
No more Intel chips for me. They and their criminally-colluding accomplices at MS can collectively set themselves on fire take a flying leap into a wood-chipper.
Strat
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Sorry for replying to my own post, but in reading further I see AMD is joining the conga-line of criminal-collusion also.
I guess this means buying used/older hardware from this point on. At least, until Intel/AMD/MS lobby for laws making the sale/transfer of old PC hardware and running of non-MS approved OSes illegal.
Strat
Re: (Score:3)
I'm wondering if this is where they employ the 'secure boot' where the OS needs an Intel/MS-signed key for the chipset to run it.
I'm wondering how long before the Windows activation process during installation will involve Microsoft digitally signing your individual system's specific boot image and bootloader configuration of each computer, so Microsoft has to approve the hardware Windows is running on, before you'll be allowed to even boot the installed OS.
Re:linux etc (Score:4, Insightful)
Political correctness is the being polite and considerate to others of today. But don't worry, liberals like the ACLU will continue to fight for your right to be offensive. The only thing we don't do is pretend you're not offensive.
First, know what you're talking about... (Score:3)
Orwell was a committed socialist - it was a warning against totalitarianism and Soviet style communism.
Re: (Score:3)
Liberalism ("Progressivism") is precisely what has led to the creation of the US prison state and fomented the spread of fascism in the US. I've personally watched it happening in real-time over the last 5+ decades.
Fuck that's funny. Even more so if you actually believe it.
There hasn't been a progressive Government in the USA for the better part of half a century, and 30-40 years for most of the rest of the western world (a handful of European countries aside, and even they've shifted significantly rightwa
Re:linux etc (Score:5, Insightful)
This thing needs to be pulled apart and examined from a slightly higher level.
First of all, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that these chips do not support Windows 7 or 8 outright. Intel and AMD, despite their apparent lobotomy, will only shoot themselves in the foot if they start making x86 architecture backwards-incompatible. Indeed, the fact of the matter is that this is the one thing they bring to market that ensures their dominance. Additionally the processor itself is unlikely to be able to specifically lock on to Windows 7 or 8 and refuse to run because of that.
Furthermore, Windows 7 or 8 out of the box CANNOT recognize these new chipsets and CANNOT refuse to install because of them. If someone sucks down all the updates Microsoft throws at them, there may well be a Win 7 update that deliberately bricks it somewhere down the line. But if you keep updates off Windows 7 will not commit suicide on behalf of Microsoft, at least not in this manner.
What is more likely is that things like the chipset drivers are not going to be backported. Does this mean inherent incompatibility? The answer for that is unclear. It is likely, IMO, that it will run, but with degraded performance, e.g. a lot of the onboard goodies may not work. I doubt that it is so obsessed with specific drivers that everything will be disabled. For instance, I imagine USB 2.0 will work but 3.1 might not. It is also possible that there may be attempts by users to backport the drivers, which may or may not be successful. In terms of the need for a next-generation kernel, if the chipsets are so incompatible that they REQUIRE new drivers to operate, and there is no way around that, even by using legacy protocols and drivers, then yes, only a next-generation kernel will run on it. However, that strikes me as unlikely (although it's possible, at least in theory).
Now, is any of this absolutely for certain? No, not really; the only way to test that out is to actually attempt to install it.
In terms of virtualization, unless Intel has put in some kind of anti-virtualization sabotage to shoot down Windows 7 (which again would be difficult for the processor to detect), it is unlikely that it will work.
In terms of Secure Boot, that IS a problem, but it is an entirely separate problem that, in theory, applies to all recent UEFI machines. It may very well cause serious problems for Linux installations. I've heard some references to a signed version of GRUB, but I think that there is a serious danger of Microsoft cooking up ridiculous reasons for refusing to sign binaries for anything they dislike. Additionally I recall hearing on at least one occasion about needing everything in the boot loader's chain to be signed (e.g. drivers). I do not know how they would manage that once the kernel is running, but if that is the case then that is a significant problem, and any machine which Secure Boot cannot be disabled on is as such essentially Microsoft-owned hardware.
Ultimately what this boils down to is part sabotage and part FUD with Intel and AMD being willing co-conspirators with Microsoft, and essentially participating in collusion. I'm not sure why Intel and AMD are so loyal to Microsoft, though; Microsoft has demonstrated it has no loyalty to x86, and has done so repeatedly over the years (see: Windows Phone, Windows NT for Alpha, etc.).
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Regardless of support for older versions of Windows, it would be utter insanity to not support Linux (which would also lead to BSD support). Yeah, you might need a newer kernel but, the entire damn internet runs on Linux. Chip vendors aren't going to stunt that upgrade path.
As for virtualization, it should be fine to run older versions in a VM. A Windows VM doesn't see the bits that might affect compatibility.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Collusion is illegal (Score:5, Insightful)
There is zero reason for Windows 7 to not work with the processor. Otherwise, you might as well NOT call it x86.
Re:Collusion is illegal (Score:5, Insightful)
The article is misleading. It is not that the chips won't work with the older os's. It is that only windows 10 compared to previous versions will support their newer features. Stuff like enhanced speed stepping and powering down cores when not in use.
Re:Collusion is illegal (Score:5, Interesting)
Intel already tried to break the Windows 10 installer with their latest chipsets.
They forced the USB controller into XHCI mode for no reason, so when you get to the point in the Windows 7 installer where you need to interact with it, you're fucked if you're using USB installation media or a USB keyboard. Using an optical drive and an unattended setup answers file or an optical drive and a PS/2 keyboard works. Guess which things modern Intel platforms tend not to have.
Of course, the Taiwanese mobo manufacturers all released the workarounds (use a DVD and a PS/2 keyboard, use USB ports 7 and 8 which are powered by the non-Intel controller, etc.) and even published tools to patch the Windows 7 installer to just make it work. Intel and MS responded after much outcry by releasing official versions of those same tools.
Fuck both Intel and MS. If AMD goes the same way, fuck them too. Windows 10 is the worst thing to happen in computing this decade.
Re: (Score:3)
http://www.intel.com/content/w... [intel.com]
Intel forces their new chipset to run in XHCI mode despite USB 3's backwards compatibility. XHCI is not supported in the Windows 7 installers, not the Gold/RTM, not the SP1 release, and not the later "media refresh" release.
Re:Collusion is illegal (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows 7 is not EOL. It's in the extended support (security and major bug patches only) stage.
Further, drivers for Windows 7 and Windows 10 are basically the same. This is nothing like the difference between writing drivers for Windows XP and writing drivers for Windows Vista.
Re:Collusion is illegal (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not collusion, they've been doing that for years, this is planned obsolescence. People aren't buying new hardware because they don't need it. Newer processors aren't any faster overall and haven't been for years now. You have to go back almost 5 generations to get a significant difference between mainstream Intel CPU's (single thread performance) that would be enough to justify buying a new processor. The focus on power efficiency has essentially stalled all growth in processor power.
So they are doing what they can, you want new hardware you need a new OS. They think it's a win win for both of them, though i think it will delay the upgrade cycle even more and will end up hurting them.
Nothing new here, new motherboard lacking drivers (Score:3)
... you want new hardware you need a new OS ...
By the time the hardware arrives Windows 10 won't be new, it will merely be the current OS.
And its not exactly a new thing. I recently built a new PC based on a recently released ASUS motherboard. ASUS only provided chipset drivers for Windows 8 and 10. Not sure if 7 would work. Doubtful Vista and older would work correctly.
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It's not collusion, they've been doing that for years, this is planned obsolescence. People aren't buying new hardware because they don't need it. Newer processors aren't any faster overall and haven't been for years now. You have to go back almost 5 generations to get a significant difference between mainstream Intel CPU's (single thread performance) that would be enough to justify buying a new processor. The focus on power efficiency has essentially stalled all growth in processor power.
So they are doing what they can, you want new hardware you need a new OS. They think it's a win win for both of them, though i think it will delay the upgrade cycle even more and will end up hurting them.
I have a W7 OS on my Mac running in bootcamp. Not too bad at all. It runs the one piece of Software I need Windows for. Uptime has been 100 percent so far.
The W10 Box, which I used for the same purpose has been borked a number of times, with issues running form sound card drivers, removing fonts that had no reason to be removed, changing all my security settings, and most recently, killing my ethernet driver and updating something else so it won't even use a USB to ethernt adapter. You leave it working,
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Collusion against who? Microsoft circa 2014?
This isn't locking out any competition - Linux and MacOS will still run on the newer processors.
Honestly, Slashdotters seem to be growing into old men yelling at clouds, lamenting passing of the days when you would wear an onion on your belt and memory was measured in hog's ears.
I'd say "in before" but I see "this will be the death of Microsoft!" and "Hello Linux" already posted, as they get posted on every Microsoft story since 1998. Keep shaking those impotent,
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
So it's collusion when an auto manufacturer stops selling older model cars? It's collusion when you can't buy the 2010 version of tax software?
Microsoft isn't interested in selling you Windows 7, and you can't compel them to. Of course, the offered you (and really, they still do) the free upgrade path to Windows 10 from Windows 7 and Windows 8.x. Consumers aren't being injured, except by their own paranoia.
They don't want older versions installed on new hardware, and they are using their status as a 900lb g
Re:Collusion is illegal (Score:4, Insightful)
So it's collusion when an auto manufacturer stops selling older model cars?
No.... It's collusion when the Auto manufacturer makes an agreement with the Auto shops to stop carrying the
proper replacement parts that fit your older cars.
Or it's collusion, when diskette manufacturer X comes out with a new diskette size and makes a deal with laptop manufacturers to stop supporting the older diskette size on their laptops, only the new one.
Linux anyone? (Score:5, Informative)
"Windows 10 will be the only Microsoft OS to support new Intel and AMD chips"
Little to see here, moving on.
This is truly revolutionary (Score:5, Funny)
Summary says, "Kaby Lake will not run on anything older than Windows 10".
In the past, operating systems ran on CPUs, not the other way around. So this is truly revolutionary!
In time (Score:5, Interesting)
It will be illegal to run any other version than Windows 10.
Re:In time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:In time (Score:5, Insightful)
It will be illegal to run any other version than Windows 10.
In time it will be illegal to possess a general-purpose computer.
Strat
Re:In time (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
What does this say for Intel Macs? (Score:3)
No upgrade for you (Score:2)
Alrighty then, I guess I'm not upgrading my notebook any time soon then. There was no real reason to do it, and now I have a real reason not to do it. And if it breaks, I'll pick up something used for cheap that can run what *I* want, and not what Microsoft/Intel/AMD wants me to run with artificial limitations. And then they wonder why PC sales are in deep decline...
Step 1 EMBRACE (Score:2)
deep integration between Windows and the silicon
Because Microsoft has a hugely successful track record with "deep integration" with ANYTHING. I guess this is the "Extinguish" phase for CPU manufacturers. You made a deal with the devil, now you reap the rewards. Don't say no one ever told you so.
I guess I'll be hunting for old CPUs and motherboards and buying second-hand in my retirement years.
Re: (Score:3)
Not even "old." Just current. CPUs aren't advancing at a breakneck pace or anything. A modern Skylake processor will last the better part of a decade for most purposes, and by then, Intel should have come to their senses, or a competitor will step in.
Also, this should only affect the consumer line (Core i). I can't imagine them locking Xeon processors into Windows 10, so just get yourself the equivalent Xeon (e.g. Xeon E3-1230v5 vs Core i7 6700). You lose the integrated graphics, but that's easy to wor
Re: (Score:3)
If you don't limit yourself to stupid brain-dead pared-down models of Xeon, you don't sacrifice the integrated graphics. Those that end in 0 are crap. Those that end in 5 or 8 are good. The e3-1225v5 is cheaper than the e3-1230v5 and has graphics. A much, much better deal. There isn't any 1235 (yet), but there is a 1245 and a 1275.
Forced Obsolecence (Score:3, Insightful)
If it weren't for dirty tricks like this, users would treat Windows 7 like XP... M$ would need to pry it from their cold, dead hands.
Doesn't matter (Score:5, Interesting)
CPU & OS Backdoored For Your Pleasure (Score:5, Insightful)
Soon all our machines will be totally infected with spyware sponsored by our own tax dollars.
Bad news for Apple (Score:3, Interesting)
Their notebooks are DOOMED.
I'm calling bullshit (Score:2)
M$ said the same thing with Skylake on Win7. And Skylake works fine on Win7, you just need to install the Intel INF drivers and the proper usb 3.0 drivers.
So unless Intel refuses to makes their drivers for Kaby Lake work on Win7 (and I don't think Intel is quite that stupid), this is a non issue.
Or to be more accurate, its more FUD and outright bullshit from M$.
Re:I'm calling bullshit (Score:5, Interesting)
Wow, Microsoft must be paying a fuckton of money to AMD. Windows 7 is still 47% [netmarketshare.com] (down only about 5% from Q1 2016 and probably not moving any farther now that free upgrades are over). If my competitor stood up and said "we are walking away from half of the market" my response would be "We are committed to supporting the half of the market our competitor just abandoned."
Is AMD independently wealthy enough to also ignore half of the market, or is Microsoft making them wealthy enough to do so? Stockholders ought to be asking that question right now, especially given the weak position that AMD is in.
What does PC industry and Trump have in common? (Score:2)
Please make new CPUs incompatible with any Windows (Score:3)
What exactly are they disabling? (Score:2)
Just how do you disable older versions of the OS without also disabling older applications?
Maybe, there is code buried into Windows XP/Vista/7/8, that will prevent them from running on some future CPUs. I can believe that. But for a CPU to reject an older OS on its own? I do not know, how this can happen even in theory — not without disabling a whole lot of other already existing binaries...
Maybe, it is not the CPUs, but the chipsets using some
"Will Only Support Windows 10" (Score:4, Insightful)
The headline is crystal clear. Linux, Mac, Win 7-- fuggedaboudit.
Or is this another Slashdot clickbait? Ah, they are off the hook because they copied the clickbait at PCWorld. At least PCWorld had the decency to add this statement "But a change in Microsoftâ(TM)s support policy means that it will be only be officially supported by Windows 10." which seems to soften the misleading headline.
As most here agree, ways will be found to deploy these chips in a useful direction despite the monopolistic desires of Microsoft.
Bullshit (Score:3)
Lots of motherboard manufacturers still run diagnostics on DOS. I don't think very many of them have moved their diags over to run as UEFI applications.
I could imagine (and the article implies this) that older versions of Windows won't work on the newer CPUs, as disappointing as that is, I suppose that makes some sense.
Orwellian much? (Score:3, Insightful)
Intel and AMD are so committed to a good and trustworthy experience for their customers that they are only accommodating installation of the perpetual beta, that data mining sensation, Windows 10? This constitutes a big bet that nearly all of their customers are completely ignorant or utter fools, with the remainder being an insignificant minority that can safely be ignored.
After 20 years of Windows, I'm finally in the process of switching to Linux. I can clearly tolerate a somewhat rubbish OS for a long time but when it's essentially a sinister joke and a toy rather than a serious tool, even a procrastinator like me is motivated to make a change. Of course much of the Win 10 evil has been back ported to Win 7 and 8 but could in theory be avoided. After a while though, one tires of the cat and mouse game of choosing which updates to avoid and now how to get around the update rollups. This business with chip support is just the most recent slap in the face from an increasingly cynical and adversarial Microsoft who is apparently the driving force in this present fiasco.
KDE Neon, for example, is way faster on an old laptop than Windows on a recent Xeon workstation, so this no painful switch. Thus ends the promise of Longhorn, at least for me.
All Windows installs are VM's anyway... (Score:3)
The hardware is mature enough and ram is cheap. With PCI passthrough and modern video cards I can afford a 2% frame loss for games since that is all I use windows for. It also makes reboots cheap and easy while browsing the web on another VM. Furthermore it provides a sandbox for security risky applications like web browsers where it can be setup temp/read only and resets at boot. It makes it easy for me to migrate the windows installations so they are no longer locked down to a single machine. So I can setup games once for it's intended windows version and then forget about it. It also empowers easy incremental backups.
Only problematic thing is the cracks I still need to use for games I purchased. I'm one of the few holdouts from steam. I'm old school and like boxes and actually installation media when it's available. But with game VM's being sandboxed it's not so bad. When games get released without copy protection I ultimately buy those versions of the CD or the GOG download. Only thing I use steam for is online games since those games will all go EOL and disappear in 10 years anyways; which is why I incidentally try to stay away from most of them.
No problem (Score:4, Insightful)
Just add these to the growing list of hardware that is Linux only.
It's usually older gear such as PCI cards or scanners that makes the list, so it's nice to have some newer CPUs on our side too.
This is dumb. What about OS X? (Score:3)
Making a new chip incompatible with older operating systems is stupid. And what about alternatives to Windows? Apple relies on Intel for CPUs for their computer line.
"deep integration between Windows and the silicon" (Score:4, Funny)
Skin crawling.
There is literally nothing I need Windows 10 for. (Score:3)
If I really need a Windows environment, I'll spin one up in VMWare. It works just fine there and it's not like I'm gaming on it.
Fuck Microsoft and their attempt to force upgrades by removing choice from the owner of the computer.
And damn Intel and AMD for slobbing the Redmond knob and helping them!
Article headline from the Onion or just techie cli (Score:3, Informative)
Nasty, Not Naughty... (Score:4, Interesting)
All the millions of copies of pre-W10 Windows still in use are essentially "dead" to Microsoft: they are in fact an overhead, since MS have to continue to host all the patches and update materials for these releases, but can't generate revenue from them once the product is sold and installed. However, from a Microsoft perspective, W10 is the product that keeps on giving. It's incredibly intrusive SpyWareOS(TM) capabilities mean that the moment you have installed it, you become a Microsoft Product again. At any point in time they can send an update to your machine [because you can't turn off auto-update] that reverses any privacy settings you have made. They're not obliged to tell you that they have done it.
In other Words, this move will prevent people from moving their personally-owned Windows 7/8/8.1 Licenses to newer hardware in the event of a hardware failure, so that, over time, those people will be forced to upgrade to SpyWareOS and become part of the Microsoft Product.
Microsoft's defence against any potential future investigations by Monopoly/Market Abuse investigators will be: "It is unreasonable to expect us to continue to offer support for legacy software forever Additionally, we have not only made upgrading to Windows 10 incredibly simple, but we have actually made it free for all existing users for a considerable period of time. Lastly, anyone not happy can go buy a Mac..." And certainly, in most of the world, that will be enough.
What this does is force anyone happy enough to run older Windows versions to upgrade, whether they like it or not. Or migrate. One thing that wasn't completely clear from either this post or the linked articles though: will the new CPU actually prevent say W7 from running at all? Will it's ID string be so alien that older versions of Windows simply won't recognise it and refuse to install? HP tried something like this by putting tiny ICs into their original toner cartridges, such that 3rd party cartridges would not work in their printers. That got overturned in court, though, because it was shown that the IC served no purpose other than to act as a barrier to entry. Could this be shown in a similar light? i.e. Could it be argued that some sneaky microcode work-around serves no purpose other than to enforce the hegemony?
Anyone fluent in legalese lurking today?
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Vigorously.
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With a cactus.
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Looks like Papermaster just threw away a lot of potential future paper (excepting possibly legal as this looks like collusion) with that statement.
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Yep, only a couple people in my office are even on Win8, virtually every machine is in Win7. Corporate customers move on slowly, and mostly want every machine to be the same until EVERY important application has been well tested on the new OS. Win10 is such a moving target that I am really curious how many IT departments have even gotten an itch to start playing with it.
The main use of my work machine is to remote into our Unix boxes for "real" work anyway. Our design group really would be better off wit
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Right. It's high school debating tactics and not a reasoned analysis when you simply ignore or gloss over any inconvenient truths and push your conclusion or more precisely, belief or claim, with everything you've got. So tiresome. If anyone can be bothered to refute any of your claims point by point, I'll leave it to them.
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We're talking drivers here. Things like power management and hardware accelerated media playback.
If these things require APIs that only exist in Windows 10, Intel can't code around them.
So assuming the computer did actually boot in windows 7, graphics might display in compatibility mode and your laptop might only get 3 hours battery life instead of 7.
On the flip side, 'legacy' drivers for Windows 7 won't take advantage of innovations in Windows 10.
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Today you can never be sure which way it is.
I just wait for someone to figure out how to adapt a Windows 10 driver to Windows 7.