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Robotics Transportation

'We're Just Rentals': Uber Drivers Ask Where They Fit In a Self-Driving Future (theguardian.com) 367

Bloomberg reported on Thursday about Uber's plan to bring its first fleet of self-driving cars to Pittsburgh as soon as this month, a move that has since been confirmed by the cab-hailing company. Amid the announcement, Uber drivers are disappointed at Uber, wondering what the future of the company lies for them. The Guardian reports:"Wo-o-o-o-w," 60-year old Uber driver Cynthia Ingram said. "We all knew it was coming. I just didn't expect it this soon." For Ingram, autonomous Ubers are an unwelcome threat to her livelihood. "I kind of figured it would be a couple more years down the line before it was really implemented and I'll be retired by then," she said. A paralegal with 30 years experience, Ingram began driving for Uber and Lyft in June 2015 when she lost her job. She said that she loves driving for Uber, though she has struggled to make ends meet. Rob Judge, 41, was also concerned with the announcement. "It feels like we're just rentals. We're kind of like placeholders until the technology comes out." A longtime customer service representative, Judge began driving for Uber three months ago to make money while he looks for other work. "For me personally, this isn't a long term stop," he added. "But for a lot of other people that I've connected with, this is their only means."
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'We're Just Rentals': Uber Drivers Ask Where They Fit In a Self-Driving Future

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  • If You're not rich (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 19, 2016 @02:34PM (#52734339)

    Hurry up and die.

    • Maybe, maybe not.

      Depends on the costs... it these self-driving cars get in enough wrecks, the lawsuits may make it too pricey to continue. If the cars constantly get vandalized, hacked, stolen, whatever, it may end up costing too much to continue.

      As someone who automates processes and gets paid well for it, I can say right now that some things do not lend themselves to automation at all, and maybe should wait until there is a more cost-effective and/or reliable means to do it.

  • Hmm, would the lawsuit by a bunch of Uber drivers (in CA and MA) have had any effect on this decision? After all, self-driving cars would have to be pretty expensive to be more expensive than three-quarters of a billion dollars in legal bills and such....
    • by tomhath ( 637240 )

      I don't understand that lawsuit.

      The drivers signed on as independent contractors, then complained because they were paid as independent contractors.

      And they complain because the tip is built into the fare, but they don't get a tip.

      Now they'll complain because they're being replaced

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by zabbey ( 985424 )
        Just like all the 20 somethings that signed up for student loans and are now complaining that they student loan debt. They don't want to be right, they just things to be in their favor.
    • by Holi ( 250190 )
      Or maybe it helped. I mean Uber seems to be rushing headlong into self driving cars, and when they do mess up and cause injury Uber will be slammed in court. That may push back self driving cars decades.
  • It's about time people realized cab drivers are going to be out of work when self driving cars arrive. With more and more people leasing new cars instead of buying, I think in the large urban centers, we will see not only the replacement of human taxi operators but also a shift from leasing cars to leasing rides from a large fleet. It just makes the most sense logistically.
    • Well, not really...

      The typical urban hipster will certainly see and enjoy the benefits of renting/leasing rides full-time (here in Portland, that's where Zipcar and Car2Go come in, and a huge number of folks downtown don't even bother with owning or even leasing a car, what with parking the thing being hella expensive).

      The typical suburbanite *might* see use cases (commuting) where such a thing comes in real handy, but others (hauling kids/crap/groceries, dragging the boat or RV trailer out on vacation, etc

      • by subk ( 551165 )

        The typical ruralite will just laugh at the idea

        Which is precisely why I made the distinction about large urban centers in my O.P.

  • I dont think this car economy model constructors are aiming for will ever work.

    They want to help you subsidize your own car payments by allowing you to "rent" your car through auto-driving capabilities.

    But looking at how people disrespect other people propriety, there's no way in hell any sane person would allow total strangers to use their cars, unsupervised.

    You'' go back to your car with mud on the seats, semen on the carpet, trash and dead hookers in the trunk.

    My car is not your public transport. Dont tr

    • You'' go back to your car with mud on the seats, semen on the carpet, trash and dead hookers in the trunk.

      Look man, what I do with my car is none of your business.

    • by Afty0r ( 263037 )

      But looking at how people disrespect other people propriety, there's no way in hell any sane person would allow total strangers to use their cars, unsupervised.

      That's not how it will work, most of the cars will be centrally owned as a fleet, not by individuals. The better the service get, the less sense it makes for individuals to own cars in the first place.

      • ...and they'll still get vandalized, hacked, beaten-up and parts of it stolen (e.g. a meth-head swiping the hood for scrap metal, etc).

      • Sure if your childless and live in a city.

        Out here in the burbs you think uber going to want to do a dump run? Uber would costs me far more than my car just replacing the 2 or 3 trips a day I make.

        Uber and automated cars are great now get to the right lane and let me pass in a v8.

    • I'd wager that once Uber goes this route it won't be doing it with individuals providing their own car. It'll be a big fleet of cars owned by Uber that they rent out. That eliminates the need to share revenue with anyone else, and over the long haul the price of the car to them won't really be that big of a deal.

  • That Uber is marginal here. Self driving trucks are really going to take a toll. Faster, cheaper and so on. Still need electricians, plumbers, welders, and so on though.
  • by FlyHelicopters ( 1540845 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @02:48PM (#52734441)

    https://youtu.be/7Pq-S557XQU [youtu.be]

    The idea that technology will find new things for everyone to do is insane...

    We will need a new economic model...

    • https://youtu.be/7Pq-S557XQU [youtu.be]

      The idea that technology will find new things for everyone to do is insane...

      We will need a new economic model...

      Right, whereby humanity can evolve and share in the bounty of automation and robotics, so that people can live healthy and fulfilling lives free of the drudgery of "work".

      Good luck with that...

      • When it comes down to a choice between starving in the gutter and stabbing you and stealing your iPhone, I'd say, from what I've seen of humanity, your chances are about 50-50.
        That's me being an optimist and viewing the majority of mankind as being generally good most of the time.

        Do we really want a whole world that looks like Brazil, but 50x worse?
    • https://youtu.be/7Pq-S557XQU [youtu.be]

      The idea that technology will find new things for everyone to do is insane...

      We will need a new economic model...

      Didn't we already have this argument in the 18th century?
      I'm working on projects that involve heavy automation. Leading edge Devops type stuff that 10 years ago required a whole department of Ops engineers to execute, now being made completely redundant. The number of employed people hasn't changed though. We are now heavily developer focused with teams of PMs, BAs, Architects, co-ordinators and support roles instead of engineers.
      Based on what I see first hand, automation will kill a lot of jobs, but it

      • Didn't we already have this argument in the 18th century?

        Yes, but if you watch the video, you'll note that he addresses that point...

        You think we've been here before, but we haven't, this time is different...

        This isn't replacing some manual labor with mechanical labor, this is replacing our brains... There isn't anything to move to...

        Humans moved from mechanical tasks to mental tasks... When the mental tasks get replaced by computers, there isn't anything for humans to do...

    • by Rinikusu ( 28164 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @05:13PM (#52735421)

      People will still need blowjobs and other orifices to fill. Even though sexbots and AI will severely cut into it, there's still plenty of rich folks who'd love a live human to treat like garbage. Pucker up, fuckers.

  • by mkoenecke ( 249261 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @02:50PM (#52734459) Homepage
    Sure, Uber could invest in fleets of self-driving cars (which I, actually, doubt will be a significant presence on the roads for a while yet), but doesn't that run against the whole point of Uber and Lyft? That being crowdsourcing ride sharing (and, not so coincidentally, capital costs)? That would seem to turn Uber into just another taxi company, albeit one with a cool mobile app. I do think self-driving cars are a cool concept, especially for taxis, but think there will have to be some serious breakthroughs in artificial intelligence (i.e., it will have to be actualized, as opposed to being essentially Wikipedia with fast lookup and cross-referencing) before this sort of thing is viable on a large scale.
    • the whole point of Uber and Lyft?

      Nope.

      That being crowdsourcing ride sharing

      Was the fastest and cheapest way they could figure out how to collect all the data they needed. Uber now has hundreds of thousands of rides, routes, etc They know where to install charging stations. They know how a stadium empties after a professional sports event.

      They just needed data to feed their algorithms so when they did make the jump to autonomy they weren't doing it then.

  • You could always do food delivery. I was out of work for a while and my car is too old and has too few doors to work for Uber. However I signed up with Order Ahead (a competitor of Doordash) and did food delivery. It was enough to pay the bills and quite enjoyable. I brought my laptop with me and did some online courses during downtime, which I still got paid for since they pay an hourly rate plus per-mile delivery fees and tips.

    I'd say it'll be a while before food delivery gets completely automated. Some s

    • Some sort of autonomous Segway device or drone might come to the restaurant to pick up the food? It's a longer way off than driverless taxis.

      Why would you think that? The "self driving" bit is the hard part. Once that's good to go adding in an electric box that opens and closes when provided a code (one for the restaurant to open with, one for a person to open to retrieve food) would be absolutely trivial.

  • I don't think people get it. We are ALL just placeholders until the technology is ready. Anyone been to a McDonald's or Wendy's lately where the cashiers are just touch screens? Yes. A computer will be able to do YOUR job some day too.

    • by OhPlz ( 168413 )

      A computer will be able to do YOUR job some day too.

      Computers are going to write their own code?

  • UBI (Score:5, Insightful)

    by blackomegax ( 807080 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @02:54PM (#52734505) Journal
    Automating every last job is the correct path to a future where nobody has to work and we can just exist as humans, bettering ourselves. Ideal society if you ask me. Working for masters is overrated.
    • Re:UBI (Score:4, Interesting)

      by shmlco ( 594907 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @03:39PM (#52734895) Homepage

      Reminds of the debates over the "Star Trek" replicator economy. Problem is, "who owns the replicator'. If it's you, you're good to go. If, however, someone else controls it and what it produces and wants you to pay for the results... then you're screwed.

    • Automating every last job is the correct path to a future where nobody has to work and we can just exist as humans, bettering ourselves.

      Ideal society if you ask me. Working for masters is overrated.

      I think we can look to children of the rich (and how they busy themselves when they don't have to look after their needs) to figure out where this road goes.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Doesn't this lower the barrier of entry for any competitor, even small local taxi services dispatching self-driving cars?

  • So if I understand the story correctly, Uber drivers are like Uber for workers.

    We are all Uber now. The gig economy will set us all free from the horrors of prosperity.

  • by nbritton ( 823086 ) on Friday August 19, 2016 @04:54PM (#52735307)

    Where do you fit in a self-driving future?

    You don't fit, anywhere in the puzzle. I suggest you support legislature in support of a basic income, because in the future probably 75% of the workforce will be automated out of a job.

  • by jmcvetta ( 153563 ) on Saturday August 20, 2016 @05:24AM (#52737305)

    Elephant in the room that the advocates of self-driving cars don't want to discuss, and won't admit is a serious risk: security. Sure, you can claim all day long that these self-driving cars and their control systems will be "uber secure". But hey, in other recent news some folks are selling software they exfiltrated from the NSA. So I'm pretty sure if someone can crack them, then someone can crack Uber.

    Thing is, all it takes is one compromise to wreak carnage on an absolutely catastrophic scale.

    Imagine a near future with a few million autonomous Uber vehicles deployed and active. One malicious hacker cracks into the system. His motivations don't matter. Hacker sez to the cars: "Attention all self-driving Ubers! Turn hard left now and accelerate to maximum speed." That's all it takes, man, all it takes. I hope that doesn't happen, but I fear it will. Maybe then people will understand the risks they're playing with.

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