Microsoft Extends Again Support For Windows 7, 8.1 Skylake-based Devices (zdnet.com) 85
Microsoft says it is giving more time to users on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 devices running sixth generation Intel Skylake chips. Earlier the company had said that it would end support for such systems on July 17, 2018 (before that the end date was July 17, 2017). Today's announcement further pushes the deadline, giving Windows 7 users till January 14, 2020, and Windows 8.1 users till January 2023. ZDNet adds: Today's latest change to the Skylake support cut-off dates also applies to Windows Embedded 7, 8 and 8.1 devices. As of this latest change, supported devices running Skylake -- here's the list of PCs that qualify, along with embedded devices -- will get all applicable security updates for Windows 7 and 8.1 until the end of support dates for each product. What we don't really know is why Microsoft made this latest change. Did Intel "fix" Skylake? Did customers, especially those wanting to downgrade to Windows 7, complain a lot? The official word is "This change is designed to help our customers purchase modern hardware with confidence, while continuing to manage their migrations to Windows 10."
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the buttfuckngs will continue, they have just reached the deadline on thier offers of free lube.
now the real fucking starts.
Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade (Score:3)
coincidence?
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You mean almost any company anywhere?
We're getting Windows 10 shoved down our throats. My productivity is going to drop.
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Really? I seriously doubt that. 10 is not *that* much different than 7. I take it you have not really used 10 at all.
You are probably right about 'almost any company' being mad about it. But my bet is someone *big* like an AT&T or Verizon said fix it. Basically someone big who can splash out on the news to their share holders how much money they are saving. When most of their cost is support anyway. They can get the CEO to pundit on MSNBC how much better it is. But it looks good and zings MS. A
Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows 10 interrupts workflow by doing updates (wasting bandwidth, CPU time and RAM) and rebooting when it wants. Windows 10 wastes bandwidth by constantly sending personal information back to M$. Windows 10 wastes system resources by constantly running a lot of unneeded and unwanted background services, like Cortana, Xbox and the entire Metrosexual mobile phone subsystem. Windows 10 reverts all user changes, defaults or hacks with every single forced update resulting in lost time by making the user have to set everything back to their preferences every single time. The user has zero control over any of this.
Sorry but I would rather use my computer, not engage in a perpetual battle with it as Windows 10 requires.
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Bullshit. Windows 7 doesn't have tons of background crap running that nobody wants and it doesn't steal personal data or bandwidth like Windows 10.
Go shill somewhere else, M$ goon.
It looks like the enterprise version can turn it off, which admittedly is not a solution, but it does prove that microsoft has the functionality to do it. (Even if they didn't, they could make it.)
As far as bandwidth goes, I doubt that is significant, but monitoring by default without having a clear option to say no in the install is a very bad thing. Still performance wise win 10 is fine, despite the background crap. At least it doesn't come preloaded with McCafee. You have to add that pile of crap aft
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I always hated Apple, but it seems that they are the least worst option now
You mean aside from Linux? I don't consider buying overpriced hardware just to avoid Microsoft to be a great option even if the industrial design is always top notch. I don't really like the default windows manager in OS X. Linux lets you actually choose what GUI you want both in terms of how it looks and how it works. Now *that* should be the future of mass market OSes. I always wondered why MS and Apple did not emulate that Linux feature and let users actually customize the look and features of the OS. Ju
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Bullshit. Windows 7 doesn't have tons of background crap running that nobody wants and it doesn't steal personal data or bandwidth like Windows 10.
Go shill somewhere else, M$ goon.
here I thought Slashdot was up in arms about the upgrading of Win7+ to include telemetry included in Win10?
KB3022345 Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry.
KB3068708 (replaces KB3022345) Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
KB3080149 Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
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Windows 10 interrupts workflow by doing updates (wasting bandwidth, CPU time and RAM) and rebooting when it wants.
Update downloads use next to zero CPU.
Updates are rare and low enough on bandwidth that if this is causing productivity problems your business is about to go bankrupt anyway but due to your ISP not Microsoft.
Updates install when YOU reboot, and all versions of Windows give you the option to set this. This is incidentally also a setting which prevents you from getting large updates on release date and letting someone else beta test them for you.
Windows 10 wastes bandwidth by constantly sending personal information back to M$.
Windows 10 consumes a tiny minuscule portion of bandwidth to do
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Wow. That sounds awful. I'm never going to downgrade to Win10 in that case. I will have to wait to see if MS ever releases a real OS again.
The biggest problem is the motherboard manufacturers. Eventually they stop making drivers for old MS OSes. So you can't upgrade to new CPUs. Of course now that Intel fired most of their R&D staff and has dropped their tick-tock strategy maybe upgrading a CPU won't be an issue anymore. Not that it is a major issue now that Moore's Law is mostly dead.
If this continues
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Of course not. The intent for the free Windows 10 upgrade was to get everyone onto one codebase so they could repurpose half the maintenance and debugging efforts, ideally by focusing all of those efforts on three UIs of what is basically the same OS.
Since much of the userbase refused to upgrade, Microsoft is conceding to user demand and extending support. No surprise at all. This same dance will probably keep going until 2030, when 7 finally goes out of extended, extended, extended, long-term support.
Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, considering that MS made their OS into a service as a way to push ads for the app store, which really has nothing to do with desktop computers, and took away lots of control from users, it is not surprising that half the user base stayed with Windows 7 despite Microsoft's underhanded tactics in trying to force the "service" onto people's computers. I still think they might be able to get more people to switch if they made a Windows 10 Ultimate version that people could buy that was based on the Enterprise version, just like they did with Windows 7 Ultimate. But turning the OS into an app store ad interface while taking lots of control away from users is never going to fly with the remaining Windows 7 user base. MS could not have screwed up much worse.
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I still think they might be able to get more people to switch if they made a Windows 10 Ultimate version that people could buy that was based on the Enterprise version, just like they did with Windows 7 Ultimate.
I feel it is too late for that. Microsoft has lost my trust many times over with their downright unscrupulous action regarding Windows 10 and backported spyware for Windows 7 and 8. I don't even do system updates any more because I weigh them to be much more risky and damaging than the small possibility that my systems might get injected by viruses or (third party) malware.
Microsoft has done too much damage to their image to ever be trusted with anything again.
Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade (Score:4, Interesting)
Agreed, but Windows updates can still be managed if you do due diligence in checking into each of them before installing. That's the beauty of having control over your updates in Windows 7. You are still in control. Woody on Windows over at InfoWorld does a great job of keeping track of the bad vs. the good patches. Of course we shouldn't have to think twice about installing updates to our OS, and shouldn't have to spend one minute checking if they are adware or spyware, but that is the deal with the devil that MS made. We will see if they change their minds when their market share slips more and more. They assumed everyone would capitulate and just allow the "upgrade" because it was "free" (except for the forced ads). They assumed wrong. They are probably in for more pain in the future as the lawsuits work their way through the courts. They have pretty much squandered any good will from their customers, and now they will have to live with the blow-back from their poor decisions. They deserve everything bad that ensues.
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Windows updates can still be managed if you do due diligence in checking into each of them before installing.
I tried this, then a reinstall later I just boot-loaded it and disabled it from ever calling home after SP1 and a few other basic updates.
I am dual booting for now, and only use Windows for gaming. Too bad Overwatch is only PC or playstation right now. :(
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disabled it from ever calling home
It's been the only way to deal with it ever since MS created it.
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We all know that it could have been different if MS had chosen a wiser path, and worked with their customer base. The whole Windows 10 insider program was a sham from the beginning. They listened to the sycophants that agreed with everything they were doing, and ignored all the input from long time power users who hated the new direction. Someday we may all wake up and be shocked to find that suddenly companies actually started to act like members of the community, rather than evil overlords. At least we ca
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That's not a fair statement. Come now.
They also push ads for Office upgrades and replace your specifically-chosen default programs with their own. So let's not sell them short.
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OK, I admit that I failed to note their full beneficence on behalf of their loyal customers.
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The question then is can you trust M$ to not change the rules after they sell it to you for double the price behind a bunch of wishy washy marketing terms. So windows SE secure edition for the first year on the upgrade becomes windows anal probe+ with deeper penetrations, more power cycle pumping and bigger bandwidth flows and endless marketing ejaculations, just when you thought the experience could not become more unpleasant they make it worse and this all with the backing of the US government because th
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...The intent for the free Windows 10 upgrade was to get everyone onto one codebase...
To me, it appeared that the main intent of the free Windows 10 upgrade was to rain massive data harvesting down upon the users of Windows. The unification of the codebase was a nice side benefit.
...Since much of the userbase refused to upgrade, Microsoft is conceding to user demand and extending support....
Or Microsoft has found a way to back-port the data harvesting to Windows 7.
"Conceding to user demand" - oh, that is so cute when you say it.
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To me, it appeared that the main intent of the free Windows 10 upgrade was to rain massive data harvesting down upon the users of Windows. The unification of the codebase was a nice side benefit>
Agreed.
I find it odd, also, that Android and Apple wouldn't agree to gov't requests to help provide a "EasyIn(tm)" method of spying on/getting data off of any device they wish, yet around the same time Microsoft releases the first "Free" major version of their operating system... ever. It's not a bit of a conspiracy theory that they decided to play along and are probably getting some kind of benefits from the gov't in return.
Coincidence happens, but sometimes it isn't. Perhaps it was going to be the big o
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Don't forget that the Windows 7 life cycle was originally announced as "extended support until Jan 2020". Microsoft then tried to partially revoke that promise and said "new generations of computers won't get support until 2020, buy those with Win10".
They have now backtracked on this, but that is merely returning to their original support promises. A true extension would be Windows 7 support past 2020.
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coincidence?
You have a point there. I have the Skylake chipset with a GA-Z170M-D3H motherboard and it's latest BIOS is "f7". Just to be sure I checked the update site and it is still the same. I guess they have not got the memo yet.
My motherboard only supports Windows 8, 10 and "other OS, which means it supports Linux. Since I run Fedora 24 I can even use secure boot if I wish although by default it was not enabled.
enterprise users pushing back (Score:2)
Enterprise users pushing back A lot of places have really moved to 7 and 10 is to soon. As for 8.1 some places are using they starting to move to it be for windows 10 / windows 10 LTSB came out. And with windows 8.1 10 is an easy upgrade.
London's Met Police still has some XP moving to 8.1 with plans for an in-place upgrade to Windows 10
Let it go (Score:2)
Change happens and life continues just fine. You can still continue to use what works
Re:Let it go (Score:5, Interesting)
I use win7 for windows based things. I almost never have it access a public network, if I can help it.
I have turned off updates a year ago or more; when the ftdi-gate first happened, I gave up trusting any MS updates. with win10 madness, I was reassured my decision was still valid.
win7 is fine and if you avoid the bad patches and ignore updates, PLUS you stay the full off the internet and use linux or some other safer os to do online stuff, 'support' from MS is now meaningless.
I won't ever take another MS update. that ship has sailed. but again, I am careful not to put my machine online; which really was always the smart way to deal with windows.
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CPU "Support" by an OS is primarily revolved around the CPU microcode support: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] - The OS contains updates to the microcode instructions where issues have been discovered and corrected after the manufacturing of the chip.
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That's what BIOS (or "UEFI") updates are for.
The OS shouldn't even know of the CPUs microcode.
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You're talking theory, but the reality is that BIOS/UEFI updates aren't made very often (especially on consumer desktops). Hence OSes have their own microcode update mechanisms. MSFT rarely updates the Windows OS microcode (only for big issues) hence there can be a need for other ways to update like this driver [vmware.com].
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Not necessarily. For example, proper IOMMU isolation for PCH root ports was broken on Skylake Xeon E3 series CPUs on Linux prior to version 4.7. This affects basically every linux distro other than Arch currently. It basically lumped everything together into a single IOMMU, which is a problem if you're trying to do PCI passthrough or SR-IOV for virtual machines. Skylake has a change in the way ACS needs to be enabled. See http://www.serverphorums.com/r... [serverphorums.com]
I ended up having to backport the patch to the 4.4 ke
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they moved to PCH from pci-e 2.0 to pci-e 3.0
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NSA support.
Skylake has extensive side-band capabilities.
My take is the NSA asked Microsoft to integrate these with the OS. They probably agreed to do so for 8 and 10, but drew the line at v7, "too much money for an old OS".
Hence the big announcement that Win7 would not "support" Skylake. They spun this as being bad for users, but of course (and as you indicate) regular x64 code will run without any issues at all.
While I've had this theory for a while, I concede that the Linux team had to spend a fair amoun
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That is nonsense. MS already owns the OS and the OS is closed-source. They do not need any CPU "side-band" (whatever that is supposed to mean) capabilities.
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That is nonsense. MS already owns the OS and the OS is closed-source. They do not need any CPU "side-band" (whatever that is supposed to mean) capabilities.
Huh? If you don't understand what something means, why not ask?
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It does not really have a meaning in the given context.
Re:what's wrong with skylake? (Score:4, Interesting)
VPro [wikipedia.org] is one example of side-band exploits. I'm happy for someone to provide a more accurate term, if one exists.
The general idea is that the CPU contains a side-band CPU running its own code, access to all peripherals, and the ability to access RAM and storage at its discretion. It's a three-letter-agency's wet-dream, and while there are many benefits to corporate users (reboot/cold-boot systems and re-image HDDs even with a non-functional primary OS) the lack of clear documentation and questions over a user's ability to disable these subsystems, certainly raises red flags for many.
The timing was about right, and the sudden need for "extensive support" in SkyLake has not been adequately explained. Happy to see some solid links or citations to the contrary, but to date, it just doesn't pass the wiff test.
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Call is a "remote management engine" or a "remote hardware backdoor". That is more descriptive and more common. Especially, as this sits in the chip-set in some cases and not always in the CPU.
However, I re-iterate, Microsoft does not need any of those to break your security. These are for attacks when the OS vendor does not cooperate.
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I see what you're saying, but why does this line of CPUs require such extensive new driver support?
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Probably power-management, maybe other drivers for on-chip hardware. A hardware-backdoor would not need driver support at all, or it becomes pretty worthless. The whole point of a hardware-backdoor is that it does _not_ require software support.
Also note that this support is likely not "needed" so much, but makes things work better. With the press being ever more clueless, otherwise MS could face headlines like "Win7 and 8 is stops to support Skylake CPUs" or the like.
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Nice find.
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NSA support.
Skylake has extensive side-band capabilities.....
What are the extensive side-band capabilities you are mentioning? Very curious!
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VPro [wikipedia.org] has been around for a while now, it was only natural that it would be subverted by NSA interests.
Manage migration to win10 as in "never do it" (Score:2)
I guess MS will still rather have people on Win7/Win8 than gong completely for alternatives. And because Win10 is an absolute no-go for quite a few people that have actually looked at what it means, it is either that or lose these customers.
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> Enterprise customers are moving to Windows 10 faster than any version of Windows.
LOL. At work the word is still "hell no." And as we move away from old crufty SW we make sure that all updates or replacements are open enough so they work with Linux.
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The large enterprises where I know the IT are still recovering from the move to Win7. One upgraded the last users end of 2014. They will not move to Win10 anytime soon and with all the UI changes and BS features that have no place in a workplace, I expect many large enterprises will not even seriously consider it before there is no choice. And with enough pressure, I bet Win7 will get enterprise support way beyond 2020, if the alternative is losing the customers completely.
That works for me (Score:2)
That should be about the same time that DX12 support becomes an issue. At which point I'm just going to shine the whole AAA gaming thing on, apparently. Or maybe by then Bethesda and R* will start releasing for Linux. Naaaah
Windows Update Trust Broken (Score:1)
Abused trust to install an entire operating system without consent from within Windows Update. No one will ever trust Windows updates again. Every update is labeled generically as "security update for Windows 7 for x64 based systems" or "update for Windows 7 for x64 based systems". Forces users to waste time looking up each individual KB. Been that way since XP. Treating us like idiots. I want to know exactly what a KB is for without spending 5 minutes to look it up and research exactly what's include
They didn't change anything (Score:2)
Re: They didn't change anything (Score:1)
I looked 3 weeks ago and it said that Microsoft will continue providing extended support (security updates) for Windows 7 until January 2020. They stopped providing other updates in January 2015. I didn't notice anything about specific CPUs.
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What happened is that Microsoft originally said that people with Skylake hardware would stop getting updates for Windows 7 and 8 on some earlier date than the date at which people with older hardware stop getting those updates. Now it seems like the date for Skylake users to stop getting updates (including security updates) for Windows 7 matches the date at which people with older hardware will stop getting those updates.
As someone who upgraded from a Core 2 Duo to a Skylake i5 in January (before Microsoft