How Sony, Microsoft, and Other Gadget Makers Violate Federal Warranty Law (vice.com) 189
Reader citadrianne shares a Motherboard article: There are big "no trespassing" signs affixed to most of our electronics. If you own a gaming console, laptop, or computer, it's likely you've seen one of these warnings in the form of a sticker placed over a screw or a seam: "Warranty void if removed." In addition, big manufacturers such as Sony, Microsoft, and Apple explicitly note or imply in their official agreements that their year-long manufacturer warranties -- which entitle you to a replacement or repair if your device is defective -- are void if consumers attempt to repair their gadgets or take them to a third party repair professional. What almost no one knows is that these stickers and clauses are illegal under a federal law passed in 1975 called the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act . To be clear, federal law says you can open your electronics without voiding the warranty, regardless of what the language of that warranty says.
warranty length (Score:3, Insightful)
the more annoying thing is, that for a device this expensive, the warranty is only 1 year long. apple even tried to bring that crap to EU. fortunately, apart from UK, the whole EU has 2 year warranty on everything.
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Re:warranty length (Score:5, Funny)
My Apple //e had a 90-day warranty. Ninety days. It has worked flawlessly for 30 years. I bet you won't be able to say the same thing about your modern electronics.
I was born w/o any warranty and am still here 53 years later. Everything still works pretty well too. Lucky enough that the case hasn't ever had to be opened.
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So I'm not the only one who can't get anything back into the box it came in?
I swear, those things are assembled by Tetris-masters.
always connected appliances (Score:2)
considering everything is "connected" now so that they can harvest your varies habits and use them to their advantage, most stuff will just stop working when they decided there's no more money to be made from it and shuts down the server (Nest comes to mind...) The servers would've gone offline long before any of the component fails.
Re: warranty length (Score:2)
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My Apple //e had a 90-day warranty. Ninety days. It has worked flawlessly for 30 years. I bet you won't be able to say the same thing about your modern electronics.
You could say it, it just wouldn't be true, lol.
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You must get bothered easily.
Being that most devices if they are to fail it would be within the first month of operation. That is why it is normal for companies when they get new servers they do a 48 hour burn in session to make sure the server survives the first 48 hours and after that chances are the server will last for the long time.
1 Year or 2 Year isn't really that big of a deal for electronics with little to no moving parts.
The fact that America says one year and the EU says 2, is just legal semanti
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You must get bothered easily.
Being that most devices if they are to fail it would be within the first month of operation. That is why it is normal for companies when they get new servers they do a 48 hour burn in session to make sure the server survives the first 48 hours and after that chances are the server will last for the long time.
1 Year or 2 Year isn't really that big of a deal for electronics with little to no moving parts.
The fact that America says one year and the EU says 2, is just legal semantics
That's great for things that run in a controlled environment and for things you tend not to plug and unplug on a regular basis. Meanwhile a couple of weeks back a woman hands me a tablet repair and the micro USB port had worked loose and torn itself off the plastic ribbon cable. It took it 1.5 years to do that.
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No, it isn't even true in those situations. There are certain classes of late-onset failure that are alarmingly common in computers, most of which involve thermal stress on solder balls (with the GPUs being the worst offenders). These problems don't usually start to show up in large quantities until after the first year, but reduce the machines to doorstops within the first three
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Kind of...however, there's also been a very big attempt at designing things to fail just outside the warranty period - e.g. make sure it's good enough to get past the warranty then fail so that you have to buy another.
Really? My "computer museum"/Junk Room is the final resting place of nearly a dozen Apple computers from my Apple ][+ on up, and I think only one of them are in a non-working state, despite most of them being over two decades old. I also have a 2005 G5 tower and 2013 MacBook Pro that are in 24/7/365 use. In fact, the 2013 MacBook Pro is my newest Mac. Oh, and my iPad 2 is also well over that year-long warranty, and it gets HEAVILY used every day.
So, speak for your Wintel crap. Apple stuff is made to last.
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Kind of...however, there's also been a very big attempt at designing things to fail just outside the warranty period - e.g. make sure it's good enough to get past the warranty then fail so that you have to buy another.
Really? My "computer museum"/Junk Room is the final resting place of nearly a dozen Apple computers from my Apple ][+ on up, and I think only one of them are in a non-working state, despite most of them being over two decades old. I also have a 2005 G5 tower and 2013 MacBook Pro that are in 24/7/365 use. In fact, the 2013 MacBook Pro is my newest Mac. Oh, and my iPad 2 is also well over that year-long warranty, and it gets HEAVILY used every day. So, speak for your Wintel crap. Apple stuff is made to last...
I typically avoid the expensive Apple stuff, but as others have pointed out Apple has issues too.
My wife likes her iPod and iPad mini; but in both cases we're hitting issues not generally hardware issues but software issues - they can't get upgraded beyond certain versions, and apps, etc are starting to not be available on them so they're coming to be SOL despite being perfectly usable.
Or take her iPad mini, which has been dropped due to the kids and has a shattered screen (not badly but enough to be
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My wife likes her iPod and iPad mini; but in both cases we're hitting issues not generally hardware issues but software issues - they can't get upgraded beyond certain versions, and apps, etc are starting to not be available on them so they're coming to be SOL despite being perfectly usable.
Name ANY tech device for which that ISN'T the case. "Support" and "Upgrades" have a lifespan. Apple is almost always near, or at, the top as far as that goes. Time does move on. but it doesn't mean the device, the OS, or the Apps on it magically stop working, does it?, next!
Apple refuses to replace the glass
You mean "under warranty"? Or do you mean "They want to replace the entire Digitizer, when YOU think its just the "glass" that is broken"? Or do you mean "They refuse to even repair it at all at any price"?
And of course, your statement
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Your newer Apple stuff is Wintel crap. Has been for years. I have 3 SE/30s and a Mac SE that all still work fine. The Powerbook 165c wa acting funny last time I tried to boot it, though.
I only have one Intel-based Mac (my 2013 MBP). It has been working flawlessly so far.
Although I still love the raw, industrial-design tankish-ness of my Quad-Core 2.7GHz, liquid-cooled G5 tower, my Intel MacBook Pro will run circles around it. And it is a HELLUVA lot more portable!
Progress and all, ya know...
And remember, it was IBM's fault for not bothering to give Apple what they needed, i.e. a 3 GHz G5, and a "mobile" G5. They were too busy chasing the "Cell" Processor business for the likes of Mi
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How the fuck did you avoid all the defective capacitor motherboards and (insert class action lawsuit) over the years?
Reliable my fucking ass. I think you just bought Apple care and conveniently forget what pieces of shit they have been.
Never bought Apple Care in my life, although I was tempted for my MacBook Pro, just because it's a laptop, ya know...
For whatever reason (careful sourcing of components, instead of "this week's cheapest" I would imagine), Apple didn't suffer the infamous bootleg-electrolyte-formula capacitor debacle of the first part of this century on any of its own motherboards that I know of, that had plagued so many Wintel machines. I do think it did have an issue with that in some of the first generation Airport Base
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Tell that to all the people who bought laptops just a few years ago which customers had to win a class action lawsuit...
The failure rate was high enough to justify a victorious class-action lawsuit. How's that for reliability?
Citation, please?
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Re:warranty length (Score:5, Interesting)
And you didn't realize that EU citizens are paying for an extended warranty?
Apple's probably one of the best examples as their "EU Tax" is low - take the US model, add AppleCare (to satisfy EU warranty), add in the requisite VAT (20-25%) and convert to Euros, and you come out pretty close to the cost in Europe.
So if you hate 1 year warranties, when the Best Buy cashier asks "DO you want the extended warranty", say "Yes". In Europe, Australia, etc., guess what? You can't say no, you don't want the 2 year warranty, let me save the 10-20%.
Turns out everyone's really been factoring in the extended warranty into the price for Europe.
TINSTAAFL. In North America, they ask if you want the extended warranty. In Europe, Australia and other countries, they answered for you.
Oh, and yes, if you open stuff, it's fine. it's when you try to fix stuff you have problems. Warranty fraud is a huge thing, and you will see people try to claim "No, it wasn't submerged in water" even though it's clearly dripping water all over the counter.
It's a really big problem and as much as everyone would like to see more repairable stuff, the real problem is too many people just are not skilled enough. The good ones will just open it, see they can't fix it and put everything back. Most people bumble through things and make things worse
Even the law says that - if the damage can be traced to the failure, the warranty can be voided. For most devices, opening them and trying to screw around with stuff can be traced as the cause.
The problem is not the 1% of people who go to iFixit and get their replacement parts and tools, it's the 99% who don't and try to "fix" it but make things worse. Because the vast majority of those lack the skill, care, precision, tools, education, etc to not mess anything up. It's why iFixit can get all high and mighty about it, because they don't see the other end of it. Perhaps a stint at a retail customer service desk should help realize that people who use iFixit generally know what they're doing.
Re:warranty length (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple's probably one of the best examples as their "EU Tax" is low - take the US model, add AppleCare (to satisfy EU warranty), add in the requisite VAT (20-25%) and convert to Euros, and you come out pretty close to the cost in Europe.
Just on a whim, I visited the various pages. In the US, the base model costs $649. In Germany, the base model, converted to dollars and with VAT removed, it costs $685. Applecare for 2 years adds $129.
It would seem that the european cost with a 2 year warranty is substantially less than the US one.
IOW, you are mistaken.
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Actually, you're mistaken.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/extended-warranties/buying-guide.htm
"The median price paid for a plan was $123 for a major appliance and $37 for a small one"
$685 - $649 = $36
2.7% is substantially less?
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U.S.A. base model is $649 + $129 for two-years Applecare (to make it equal to the Germany warranty) vs Germany base model converted to dollars with VAT removed is $685.
I'm pretty sure 685 is substantially less than 778.
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It's very disingenuous to use the median price for a class of product's warranty in a discussion about a specific product. At least, when you attempt to overrule the published warranty price for that specific product.
/. Requisite Car Analogy: The average price for a BWM 3 Series is like $20k. If I keep bringing that figure up in a conversation about new BWM 3 serieses, you'll look at me like I'm insane. That's because the subset of BWM 3 series members who are new have an average price double the mean
Re:warranty length (Score:5, Informative)
I just checked too, and I thought actually putting some numbers down would be informative, rather than just making statements without any backing data. What computer are you talking about that costs $649 baseline (I didn't see anything like that on a quick look on the Apple store).
Germany, Baseline Silver MacBook (Apple.com/de/): €1449
United States, Baseline Silver MacBook (Apple.com): $1299
UK, Baseline Silver Macbook (Apple.com/uk/): £1049 (a lot more flux than normal in this price, due to Brexit and unusually low USD.GBP exchange rates)
Cost of AppleCare = $129 for 3 years. Cost per year then is $43, so two years of warranty would be an added $86.
DE €1449 -> $1600. Minus 19% VAT = $1,344. Plus two years of AppleCare ($86) = $1430
UK £1049 -> $1395. Minus 20% VAT = $1162. Plus two years of AppleCare ($86) = $1248
US $1299. Plus full 3 years of AppleCare ($129) = $1428. Two dollars difference from what what I estimated as the DE price breakdown.
So the German price in Euros seems pretty darn close to me! Did I miss anything?
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He didn't specify computer. I went for the base model iPhone.
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Apple's probably one of the best examples as their "EU Tax" is low - take the US model, add AppleCare (to satisfy EU warranty), add in the requisite VAT (20-25%) and convert to Euros, and you come out pretty close to the cost in Europe.
You usually come out cheaper with EU model and no Apple Care. This is actually correct since Apple Care covers *more* than the mandatory 2 years EU warranty, so it makes sense for it to be more expensive.
Re:warranty length (Score:4, Insightful)
And you didn't realize that EU citizens are paying for an extended warranty?
Apple's probably one of the best examples as their "EU Tax" is low - take the US model, add AppleCare (to satisfy EU warranty), add in the requisite VAT (20-25%) and convert to Euros, and you come out pretty close to the cost in Europe.
No, in this case you are mistaken. For a few years Apple denied this second year of warranty in Europe and the prices were exactly the same as after they were forced to advertise and honor it. Nothing changed. This is because Apple prices have nothing to do with actual cost.
Now, for other manufacturers it might apply of course.
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I can see why.
My work MacBook Pro has crapped out entirely, and that was bought in August of last year. Its wifi support is flakey at best and as of today, it stopped booting. Well, sort of: it makes it past the part where you log in to FileVault and then goes to a black screen it never recovers from.
Given their most expensive laptop couldn't even make it a year before crapping out, I'm not surprised they don't want longer warranties.
Now to go through the incredibly annoy process of getting a laptop replace
Good luck with that (Score:5, Insightful)
In a more extreme example, would you want to be a manufacturer and honor a warranty on a (spinning) hard drive with a broken seal?
Re:Good luck with that (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a lot like those signs on the back of dump trucks that say "Not responsible for broken windshields".
The sign changes nothing about the law, but it probably works very well to discourage people from trying to recover damages from them.
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but it probably works very well to discourage people from trying to recover damages from them.
Maybe, but I expect it's really just telling people to back off in a manner that gets their attention.
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Well I know first hand that if you open a xbox one microsoft will refuse to repair it at any price.
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Which is an example of the illegal acts mentioned in the summary.
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Sure most companies are reasonable enough to offer to repair whatever it was for 90% the cost of a new one.
Also they claim that drop damage is actually covered by warranty. Well unless you open the xbox one to determine why it no longer reads discs.
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The manufacturers are not implying your warranty evaporates if you break the seal. It's more that you will never succeed in convincing them that you did not cause the problem at that point.
In a more extreme example, would you want to be a manufacturer and honor a warranty on a (spinning) hard drive with a broken seal?
Under Magnuson-Moss, the burden of proof (that the failure was caused by the consumer) is on the manufacturer, not the consumer.
Stores will lie to your face about this. Ask for a Manager. If no love, write them a letter, USPS Certified w/return-receipt. You will get movement. And in the rare case not even then, well, sue them in small claims. It is not difficult.
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Who here is warranty-voiding master-race? (Score:3)
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Depends on the device I suppose.
Very complex devices, high dollar devices or those which require some crazy special tools or alignment / calibration I typically leave alone.
( Eg: I'm not going to dismantle a $10k telephoto lens to try and clean it. I'll let the pros do their thing. )
Everything else is fair game.
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Removing and replacing warranty stickers without damaging them is also a popular geek pass-time.
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Yeah, I do this too, also because I spent so many years repairing electronics that I know what the life expectancy of your typical electrolytic capacitor is and want to check on them for any swelling. I've saved my TiVo Series 3 HD from a premature death this way, replacing all the electrolytics in it when it needed it.
Life expectancy of your typical under-spec'ed electrolytic, you mean. Properly spec'ed, electrolytics (even those in SMPS and Motor Drive applications) last a very, very long time.
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Yeah, I know, they usually cut the maximum voltage and temperature down to the bare minimum to save money. When I replace them I use better parts, especially if they're high voltage.
Plus, some of the REALLY cheap shit doesn't even use caps that are rated for SMPS use (generally the brown-covered ones), let alone being 125 degree C rated. They die a miserable death in relatively short order.
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Been there, done that. In a previous life I repaired arcade games, including CRT monitors, and I even resurrected some of the shitty cheap-ass switching power supplies they used in them, I know all about how cheap-ass some 'manufacturers' can get. That was all back in the day but it was all a great supplement to my education.
LOL! The way I got my real start in electronics and computers was repairing arcade equipment, lo many years ago,
When I was doing that, there weren't any SMPSes in arcade equip. Everything was analog 3-terminal regulators, like the LM309K. But you'll appreciate the fact that in one video game chock FULL of power-hungry 7400 TTL logic, they needed SOOOO much 5V that they actually "cheated" the LM309K by " bypassing" it with a 10W resistor(!!!!) Massively "bad engineering", but I guess it worked...
So betwe
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Depends on the environment a bit too. High heat seems to kill electrolytics no matter how good they are. I see this frequently in mobos where the caps next to the GPU or underneath the shroud off of the CPU are always the first to blow. Every time I see it I say to myself "I sure am glad the manufacturer saved $0.05 per cap on this, it is definitely making my life better..."
Replace them with 125 degree rated ones. It helps a lot. Oh, and if they are through-hole, you can sometimes lay them over on their sides to get them away a bit from a heat source like that. Just don't go crazy and put them on wires 6 inches long or anything!
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You aren't doing right if that wire isn't bare and dangerously close to touching a lead on an unrelated circuit.
POP!!!
I'm shocked (Score:3, Insightful)
Shocked, I tell you, shocked. (Maybe I shouldn't have touched the mains.)
Shocked, I tell you, that corporations would try and bypass federal law to avoid losing money. SHOCKED.
I mean, we all know corporations are all sweetness and light, concerned first and foremost with providing quality products to consumers, and not with squeezing every nickel and dime out of them, sending them to mandatory "third party" arbitration that favors them, and generally treating customers as disposable whenever possible.
Boy, I'm glad I don't live in a world like that, where corporations routinely bribe public officials and get away with it, because it's called "lobbying".
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Perhaps it is the fact it is nearly impossible for any organization with a team of lawyers to know of all the laws that are out there.
This is a Law from 1975 and we are just looking into it now?
How many laws have you broken that you didn't know that was in place, because they are not actively enforced, and you never bothered looking up every action that you chose to do.
Re: I'm shocked (Score:5, Informative)
I've been telling everyone (here, too) about the Warranty Act of 1975, every time the foolish notion of "voiding" a warranty comes up, for over a decade.
If you're just hearing about it now, you should look around more.
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Yep, same here. I just notified someone about this law, complete with a Wikipedia link, on a car forum I read. The question comes up frequently: "will I void my car's warranty if I tint my windows" or something like that. A huge number of people think their warranty will be void if they modify their car even the slightest bit.
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Dear sir or ma'am,
I find your citation to be largely unsupportive of your claims.
Please resubmit with greater clarity.
Thanks you,
Re: I'm shocked (Score:5, Interesting)
What about bans for using 3rd party parts / shops? (Score:2)
What about bans for using 3rd party parts / shops?
There was an time where MS banned you for using your own HDD in the Xbox 360 and not there own ones that cost a lot more then just buying your own sata HDD.
What about systems that use the DMCA to lock out 3rd party parts? Like some printers and some cars?
Cars that have an reset change oil light code that they can if they want the DMCA to shut down jiffy lube and other 3rd party shops from doing oil changes?
Re:What about bans for using 3rd party parts / sho (Score:5, Informative)
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My dealership oil change is $250, is done yearly but includes a full multi-point inspection, a state inspection and minor repairs (filters, gaskets, light bulbs etc), not just an oil change. It's also paid for by the manufacturer for 5y.
Either way, the oil light can be manually turned off/reset in all cars. The other lights by OBD readers and sometimes a sequence of steering wheel or ignition key movements.
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Yes but they can use the DMCA to shut down that source that lists the sequence of steering wheel or ignition key movements. As they can say that list is dealer only or that the codes / software are only for dealers only.
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Yes but they can use the DMCA to shut down that source that lists the sequence of steering wheel or ignition key movements. As they can say that list is dealer only or that the codes / software are only for dealers only.
Considering my sequence is outlined in my owner's manual for that and many other things that "you need to go to the dealer for" I'd be shocked to hear them do that...
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Have you MET the internet? Trying to squelch that kind of info is the fastest way to ensure that it lives FOREVER, attached to a reference to Moss-Magnuson to ensure even higher warranty expense in the future.
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You're wrong, and there's no hyperbole.
Your mistake is thinking that your dealership, or your experience with them, is universal.
You probably own some type of mass-market car like a Honda or Chevy or something. Buy yourself a Mercedes or BMW, go get the oil changed at your dealership, *then* come back and tell us that it costs less than $100.
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BMW are considered expensive cars in Europe in general.
And it used to be for good reasons : there is no contest between the driving pleasure of even a small one against, say, an Audi and of course the more popular VW. It was feeling like sliding on silk at full power but with an incredible grip on the road. The price of the "low range" is about the same as the "high range" or other brands.
Used to because for the last few years it's going down fast, at least for the "smaller" models, They are removing the
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No, you're really stupid for first calling me stupid and then reinforcing my point, which was that not all dealerships have cheap oil changes. I merely used BMW and Mercedes (there is no "Benz" here in the US, where the OP also lives) as examples to prove my point. They're not the only ones either; there's lots of luxury marquees here, all with high-priced service and cars which do nasty tricks like not letting you reset the oil-change indicator without a special dealer-only service tool.
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In the US, no, "Benz" is not mass market. Mercedes is a luxury moniker here.
And WTF are you talking about with self esteem? Are you too stupid to follow a rational line of thinking? I don't have a luxury car, I have a Mazda economy car. I merely pointed out that the OP's experience with oil change prices was not universal. You're not going to get cheap prices at many dealerships, including probably all the upmarket brands.
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And what is there to stop from making the ECU increments a counter when the oil is changed at an non dealer shop?
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And what is there to stop from incrementing the ECU's oil change counter, while keeping the old oil and filter in the car and doing zero work?
MFJ has a "no-matter-what" warranty (Score:3)
It's the same tactic used by parking lots. (Score:2)
Look on the back of the ticket. It will say something to the effect that "this disclaimer limits our liability" blah blah blah "we are not responsible for damage to or theft of/from your vehicle" blah blah blah. As far as I know, that isn't quite accurate from a legal standpoint.
Reduces, does not remove liability (Score:3)
With the disclaimer, the parking lot operator is responsible for providing a space suitable for parking. If you show that cars parked there were burglarized 46 times in the past six months, the place isn't suitable for parking and the operator may be liable.
Without the disclaimer, a customer may say "when I pulled in, there was an attendant who pointed to an open spot. I reasonably expected the attendant to keep on eye on the cars, so the operator is liable for any burglarly". The attendant may have been
Re: Reduces, does not remove liability (Score:2)
Er, no. It informs me of what it says.
What it says may be a damned lie, but that's still the information that I receive from such verbiage.
Ooh!!! (Score:2)
Not illegal, bad language (Score:2)
Saying "no refunds" isn't illegal. Not giving a refund is illegal. I've built many ticketing systems, for consumer trade shows and such; every ticket says non-refundable right on it -- we even need to prioritize it in terms of layout space on a small ticket. But it's illegal to not provide refunds on such tickets, and every show is happy to provide a refund to anyone who asks. It's just not advertized that way -- it's counter-promoted. That's not illegal.
Similarly, the void-if-removed sticker is not il
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If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.
"could be", "implying", "can themselves" -- those're a lot of if's.
Anyone can make a sign (Score:2)
Anyone can put up a sign, or write a "no returns" clause on consumer merchandise receipts. Lying is not illegal.
Now, refusing to take a warrantied return---that is illegal.
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In some cases, lying about rights is most definitely actionable. A hotel that had a giant "NO [MINORITY] ALLOWED" sign would find themselves the subject of a lawsuit, even if they did rent to that minority when they presented themselves.
No Warranty Void Sticker on ANY Apple Product! (Score:2)
And just looking at the MacBook Pro Warranty for the U.S.A. [apple.com], I see NOTHING about "No third-party repairs" or "Void if opened" bullshit.
Of course, NO ONE will honor a Warranty Claim from a non-Authorized Repair facility. That's like "Warranty Repair 101" logic. Otherwise, why have Authorized Repair Centers (which, BTW, ARE generally "Third Party").
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1.10.6 Disclosure of Unauthorized Modifications. During the service ordering process, you must notify Apple of any unauthorized modifications, or any repairs or replacements not performed by Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider (“AASP
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If you get an apple device repaired at a third party that is not an AASP and you then take it into apple and they see it has third party parts in it, they will refuse to even look at it. In most cases. Mostly for idevices, but can extend to computers.
1.10.6 Disclosure of Unauthorized Modifications. During the service ordering process, you must notify Apple of any unauthorized modifications, or any repairs or replacements not performed by Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider (“AASP”), that have been made to your product. Apple will not be responsible for any damage to the product that occurs during the repair process that is a result of any unauthorized modifications or repairs or replacements not performed by Apple or an AASP. If damage results, Apple will seek your authorization for any additional costs for completing service even if the product is covered by warranty or an AppleCare service plan. If you decline authorization, Apple may return your product unrepaired in the damaged condition without any responsibility.
That's a Warranty condition. Doesn't mean that Apple won't repair as NON-Warranty.
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Oh, my lord. Does anyone read the shit they post anymore?
During the service ordering process, you must notify Apple of any unauthorized modifications, or any repairs or replacements not performed by Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider ("AASP"), that h
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Which would be nice if only Apple would offer authorization for third parties, but no longer offer that certification. So if you didn't have a third party authorization before a few years back, tough luck.
As a former repair-tech (non-Apple) myself, I would opine that managing a network of third-party repair centers when you already have a Retail presence in all, or nearly all, states in the U.S. that includes repair services, makes absolutely zero sense, economically.
Unfortunately, so many "warranty" decisions are discretionary, and there are lenient techs (and tech-managers!) and dickish ones. Apple's U.S. hardware warranty for MacBook Pros implicitly ALLOWS for things like a swapped-hard drive WITHOUT vo
Rooting - same? (Score:2)
Rooting Android voids "warranty", so it is stated.
Now, what breaks with that may be up to discussion, but bringing it in for repair could that give you a refusal of service.
What use does this federal warranty law have?
False (Score:4, Informative)
This is an extremely limited and inaccurate view of the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.
First, this details what a FULL warranty is, and does not supersede state laws or the FTC's addressing of antitrusts.
Furthermore, the following law clearly states that they CAN detail the limitations of the warranty. https://www.law.cornell.edu/us... [cornell.edu]
Re:Warranty (Score:5, Informative)
Whenever car dealers pull this shady shit, get them to write it down on paper (or record it voice).
Then apply your small claims court to the problem and notify the parent manufacturer. There are substantial liabilities for this foolishness.
Re: (Score:3)
Then apply your small claims court to the problem and notify the parent manufacturer. There are substantial liabilities for this foolishness.
That seems like a lot of trouble, especially if you know enough not to be scammed in the first place. Also, I didn't know Small Claims court could help if you didn't suffer any damage because you knew better.
One would think that in that case, complaining to the FTC, to the BBB, on Yelp, or to the Attorney General of your State, would be better.
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Re:Warranty (Score:4, Interesting)
I bought another car recently, and the finance guy was giving me a line of bull, saying I had to buy their fucking maintenance package or my warranty would be void immediately.
I made that mistake once. And by mistake, I mean that I bought the car after getting a line of bull from the finance guy. Now, if I get a line of bull from the finance person, I don't buy the car from that dealer. I also make sure the sales person knows why they just lost a commission.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Reminds me of a feature request I wanted to file: Could we get a filter based on content? Preferably regex-able.