OLPC, Microsoft Working Toward Dual-Boot XO Laptops 231
Ian Lamont writes "The OLPC Project and Microsoft are developing a dual-boot system to put both Linux and Windows on the laptops, according to an interview with Nicholas Negroponte. The article is thin on details, as the OLPC/Microsoft talks are apparently at an early stage. Could this be the end of the OS wars in Nigeria and other developing countries?"
While Microsoft has been working on an OLPC-capable version of Windows for some time now, the interesting thing here is the dual-booting provision, rather than forcing users into an either-or choice.
XO is the look on my face (Score:2, Funny)
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Get your hand off my ass!
Delusional (Score:5, Insightful)
What caused you to write that sentence, I will never know. Was Stevie B. holding a firearm to your head when you wrote this article? Or simply placing a sack with a large green $ on your desk?
Seriously, this is an all out attack on open source software. They are vying for the young minds of every single child in developing countries. What is so special about this that GRUB or LILO cannot be used for the dual booting? Is Microsoft developing the code to dual boot? I would be shocked if they were.
If you claim Microsoft just wants to make sure the kids get the best operating system for learning, why weren't they handing out free copies of Windows and Office to 3rd world children/schools before the OLPC project started? Because they'd rather give away their product than let a competitor fall into the hearts and minds of these children. Linux has always been free to everybody. Think about it.
Those 419 patent violation accusations [slashdot.org]
It may have become a little less religious recently but only so far as the ends justify Microsoft's means. They are interested in profit, nothing more. I would love to applaud them for coming around and realizing that open source software is a viable solution for making money--and even improving a product! But I cannot say that today. They only actively threaten it in underhanded ways.
Of course MS embraces OSS (Score:3)
There is nothing really new in this from the OLPC side, Negreponte has always wanted MS onboard. Any change of heart has been from the MS side. MS was rubbishing OLPC only a few months back.
Re:Delusional (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft has embraced the open-source community over the past few years in a very different way than before
My daughter's cats have embraced mice over the past few years in a very different way than before. Previously they would lay the dead mouse by my dining room chair, now they just eat the mouse.
Don't forget Microsoft's mantra: Embrace, extend, extinguish. Much like my daughter's cats; mantra about mice.
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At least my death will not be in vain
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Lieber Dan Nystedt von ComputerWorld, die Englische Sprache manglet die rechte Woerter auszusagen, wie falsch Du's hast. Ich wunsche, dass ich Deutsch wusste, damit ich das Reste schreien konnte.
Was Dich das letzte Satz zu schreiben verursacht, weiss ich nicht. Sie kampfen fuer die junge Sinne von jedem Kind in entwicklungen Laendern. Was ist so besonders ueber dies das GRUB oder LILO fuer Dualboot nicht koennen bentutzt werden? Schreibt Microsft das Code fuer Dualboot? Das waere m
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He says, "We are working with them very closely to make a dual-boot system so that, like on an Apple, you can boot either one up."
But Apple doesn't provide Windows for you.
It would appear that Negroponte is in need of further funding. That would explain the Intel involvement. Their departure has been noted. Now Microsoft is on board, no doubt bringing cash. Personally, I think this is a mistake. There are millions of PC's
Re:Delusional (Score:5, Interesting)
So yup, Microsoft's involvement is only reactionary because the project leveraged the cost savings and efficiencies of Linux and OSS. From what I've heard, even the Bill/Melinda Gates Foundation computer donations come with restrictions on usage of Linux and OSS. So they still want Linux and OSS destroyed and helping kids is only PR. IMO.
LoB
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I think if you were intelligent at all, you would do the exact same things as current MS management if you were in their shoes. You may think it's
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I haven't seen the restrictions to which you're referring, but this could easily be the case if the foundation isn't actually donating real money. It could just as easily be leveraging donations from Microsoft and counting the donation amount as the retail value of any software that's used, in which ca
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Yep, interesting. Sugar is a lot more than just an OS.
Microsoft wouldn't want to be seen as the loser in a competition like this, so how will Microsoft provide all the additional functionality? Bundle Works?
They'll also need to address the malware aspect, and do so in the very limited space available on the XO. If they manage to do that, they'll also have to be careful to cripple it so it won't run on ordinary PCs. A stripped down, low cost, lightwe
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Can you imagine how well M$'s uber-bloat OS's will run on these little boxen? If you asked me, let M$ put Windows on the XO, so that all the little children of the world can see that it's such a resource hog it converts your neato XO into a thrashing paperweight.
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And yet, in the end, charities are still businesses with bills to pay just like for-profits. No surprise if OLPC is getting an infusion of cash from MS.
Um.. . . (Score:2)
Simple. (Score:3, Funny)
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So how could MS lose with this scenario? (Score:5, Funny)
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That's a very Slashdotesque point of view and a good example of missing the forest because of one tree. You need to see the source only if you want the kid to become a programmer or maybe a sysadmin. The third world countries targeted by the OLPC have much higher and more urgent priorities. They need educated people in many other areas, not only programming. They need better, more knowl
Re:So how could MS lose with this scenario? (Score:4, Insightful)
Do they _really_ need to learn Windows, or just basic computing concepts? I'd wager that the later is far more useful than learning a specific OS.
When you say the source code is irrelevent in all those "urgent priorities", I say that windows is also - The only requirement is that it displays graphics and text on the screen, so there's absolutly no reason I can see why they couldn't learn all those things with a non-Windows OS.
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I'm not sure what you mean, but the discussion started with the "show source" requirement, so I'll assume you don't include everyday computer usage as a computer concept, even basic.
Here, on Slashdot, we tend to exaggerate the importance of computer knowledge. Basic computing concepts (such as the capability to read/write a program or a script) are needed for engineers, system administrators, certainly for programmers, and a few
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I was mostly responding to the last sentence of your first paragraph, were you say you'd argue that kids in third world countries "need" to learn Windows. I disagree.
Agreed - but that's a different issue. My argument was not OS related; I was saying that the usefulness of the OLPC is not given by the capability to see the source code.
I agree with you that there are more pertinent skills they could learn that would help them more than computer know-how. That said, I believe the
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Re:Not all code needs to be made visible (Score:5, Interesting)
But isn't that what MS has done with computers until 2 or so years ago? Until 2 years ago or so, it was nearly impossible to go to a major manufacturer such as Dell and the like and get a computer with a non-MS OS on it. Whats to say that the OLPC won't turn out this way? With Intel leaving, OLPC needs cash, MS has a lot of cash, if MS for the next model of computers by the OLPC decide to pay OLPC say 50 million if they ship with Windows CE on them rather then Linux, how are they to complain? It always starts out small with MS, then before any non-geek knows it, MS controls it. If OLPC turns to MS, you can bet that freedom will get restricted.
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As always M$'s myopic greed is to little to late as the most competitive software combination will be Linux and openoffice.org especially on a sub $200 laptop, and that is not third world, that is first and second world.
Not that Nicholas has failed, he has initiated a design concept that will go on to fulfil a ne
Re:Not all code needs to be made visible-- May not (Score:2)
"Why not? Most of those posting anti-MS comments seem to think that if any version of Windows makes it to the XO, then MS will completely control the whole shebang"
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Sure there is, it's called Microsoft's desire to stop open source software. In Microsoft's eye( Sauron ) there can be no existing with OSS. Any statements of cooperation and the like are misdirection since publicly stating the goal of ending any love between corporations/businesses and OSS would harm their existing position in
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- Availability of 3rd party applications
- Graphics UI performance
I dislike MS as much as the next guy, but I use it because serious bleeding-edge 3D design and video apps are not available for Linux. Show me Linux apps of the caliber of Zbrush, Mudbox, Poser, Real Flow, After Effects CS3, etc., and we'll talk.
And that's just for the sort of apps that I happen to be familiar with-- many categories things are much the same, (show me a serious Sonar, Cubase or Pro Tools conte
Dual OS on laptop/pesktop (Score:3, Interesting)
MS need dual boot on OLPC!
XO is already dual-boot (Score:4, Interesting)
KeS
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Re:XO is already dual-boot (Score:5, Informative)
KeS
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What can I tell you? It's a documented part of the OpenFirmware in both the shipped and current upgrade version. I was able to install Debian by following a rather trivial set of directions on a XO without developer access. Note that some people are of the mistaken impression that dev access is required, but that is not the case: dev access is only needed to alter OpenFirmware settings or access the OF command prompt to specify arbitrary boot files. You can Google OLPC Debian and come up with the
"Could this be the end of the OS wars in Nigeria?" (Score:2)
Dual-boot beta. (Score:5, Funny)
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Speed Considerations? (Score:4, Interesting)
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In short, Win2k would work, but MS won't use it. I doubt XP
Please don't do this. (Score:4, Insightful)
First Intel attempted, and now Microsoft is trying to torpedo this project because they realize it's a threat to their future markets. Imagine a whole generation of Linux-schooled programmers writing the next killer apps, or buying last year's hardware to run Linux desktops (or servers!) - now imagine how Wintel feel about that.
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Combine that with how Intel and Microsoft are paying original OLPC customers to go Classmate PC with Windows and you've got another project with its air supply being cut off. This project is far cheaper to kill off then say Netscape was. It's a non-profit so there's not much cash for it to to begin
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They wouldn't be competing on even terms at all though - one platform would give the ability to learn and develop and the other would be locked to closed source proprietry software (for the most part).
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Or maybe we can do away with naming "killer attributes", and let them compete on equal terms.
BTW, I've learned and developed heaps on Windows, which ultimately gave me the technical ability to learn Linux. Not having access to source code is no major barrier to "learning" and "developing". Your contention is bullshit.
Why, again, is Windows desirable for this market? (Score:5, Insightful)
To my mind, Windows seems like an expensive and unneeded distraction for these children.
solitaire + minesweeper = productivity-- (Score:2)
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As far as I am concerned, you touched on THE key point as to why Microsoft thinks it is a good idea (in fact, they should view it as near essential to their survival in these areas of the world) to work with the OLPC. If you have a generation of children who grow up knowing open source operating systems an
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Re:Why, again, is Windows desirable for this marke (Score:2)
MS will do whatever they can to ensure it is more appealing and better performing than Linux. there is simply too much to lose otherwise. Whether they are successful is another thing. I don't doubt that whatever mutation of Windows they put on the thing, it will fly.
This dual-booting project, of course, i
And they turned Apple down ... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Apple offered free licenses of Mac OS X for MIT's proposed $100 laptop initiative, however, the proposal offered by Apple's CEO Steve Jobs was declined because the program was looking for open-source software [...]"
Uhuh, yeah, right ...
OLPC-capable version of Windows (Score:2, Interesting)
Eww (Score:5, Insightful)
Close that platform, and suddenly it makes no sense at all. It's no longer an extensible means of cultural and technological expression but just another consumer product, good for nothing more than keeping the Third World in its place, right at the bottom.
Thanks, Microsoft, for staying in character.
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Whereas, you're posting as an Anonymous Coward with no credentials at all. That's fine, it just means that we're left to judge you on the merits of your argument. And so far, you show only a knack for developing arguments which logically self-invalidate
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Sure, choice is good. But with the XO-1 you don't actually have a choice - it only ships with one OS.
Giving people a choice of OS is closing the platform? Didn't you just say that people should be given a chance to choose their own direction?
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If one of the two OSes has hardware DRM requirements *cough*Vista*cough$, then it IS closing the platform, because the laptop has to be modified to give the users less freedom.
And that causes a freedom destroying trickle down effect: the free OS has to be adapted, the bundled hardware can't be fully used by the free OS, the DRM hardware is dead weight that increases the cost without any benefits, the users can't do anything they want if they choos
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Try working forward from facts rather than spewing FUD. Read the fucking article.
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please, have mercy! (Score:2)
And I am serious. I know a few people whose first computing experiences were not windos. To a man (or woman, in some cases) when they "met" windos later on they found it horrible and hard to use.
So please, let's at least give the untainted a view on what computers co
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And my first computing experience was not a Mac. And when I "met" mac OS 7 or whatever, I found it horrible and hard to use. It made sense, and was better designed in some ways, but I would have given up on it if I had not been forced to use it. Change is hard. The idea of chording the keyboard and mouse is goo
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However, so far all the real-world cases of switching between different OSes I know of follow this pattern:
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A configuration of Linux does not exist that satisfies everything I require of a computer. Windows does. Windows 2000 Professional specifically, though if I upgrade to anything with more than 2 CPU cores I'll be forced to go at least as far as XP Pro. If it was possible to make Linux do everything I need and want to do with my computer then I'd probably use it, and t
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Perhaps your definition of "use" isn't typical. For the vast majority of people, "usable" means they get their work done at the end of the day.
Indeed, my definition of "use" is slightly different. I haven't forgotten that "usability" doesn't mean "getting it done, somehow, no matter the pain". If you spend a considerable part of your working day fighting with the machine in order to force it into submission and finally get some real work out of it, then the machine is broken, end of discussion.
And, for the record, I'm an Apple fanboy, not a Linux fanboy. I did use Linux for almost 10 years, though, and still use it on my servers. On the UI side,
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Then I apologize and retract portions of my comment. The "juvenile software ideology" part stays, though, perhaps moreso.
The last time I spent any amount of time fighting with my computer to get it working was, amusingly, trying to get the network/internet working on a copy of OSX Leopard (x86) I installed in a VMWare environment. Granted that's a special case, but my Windows system never gives me problems. This is because, like you and your favor
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What do I need that Linux doesn't provide? Hmm. The biggest item on the list is AutoCAD Building Systems, currently 2008 version. (Wine doesn't cut it, BTW.) Without that I don't get a paycheck, so once that's settled we can discuss the other software I need
I wonder what (Score:4, Funny)
OLPC Principles compromised??????? (Score:2, Interesting)
How is this free and open source? Are these principles that flexible?
I guess MSFT isn't behind intel (Score:2, Insightful)
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I thought OLPC didn't have enough storage ... (Score:2)
I mean, Microsoft was suggesting that OLPC make a major change, just so that it can run Windows by itself, but a dual-boot system with two operating systems on it? Either OLPC project caved in and agreed to make its XO notebook more expensive (i.e. more built-in storage), or
this will be funny (Score:2)
Windows kills the OLPC (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with installing Windows on the OLPC is that it destroys the original purpose of the device: to educate children about how computers work. With Windows:
If Windows goes on the OLPC, the project has failed. It's that simple.
And so the stupidity spreads. (Score:4, Insightful)
It will start with older children assuming Windows looks more 'serious' and grown up, like the computers people in images and movies they see online use. Governments will be taught to prefer Windows on the basis of it being more 'competitive' because Windows is "more like" what people in wealthier economies use.
The result of this is that more kids will learn to be bored by computers and computing, believing that they are opaque appliances with western graphic metaphors (what's a 'desktop' to someone that's never sat at a desk?) that seem to get slow over time. Just a small segment of the truly curious seeking alternative operating systems. Governments that bought the machines will wonder what went wrong when they see little or no innovation in the IT sector yet a massive outsourcing industry to faltering IT giants like the U.S.
Negroponte has always wanted to work with Microsoft on his terms. Windows will certainly enjoy a long and prosperous life.
Negroponte, you're being an idiot.
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OLPC is now just an underpowered Windows PC (Score:2)
Within one year OLPC is dead in the water. Why? OLPC is now a laptop project. It will be judged by how well it runs Microsoft Office and Internet Explorer. No other software will be available for the OLPC for Windows for a reasonable enough price that it can be included with the OS, even if it is donated, the donation will not include software auto-deployable on all OLPCs. All OLPCs will have slightly different packages, the culture will be fragmented, and it won't be about education anymore
Almost Meaningless (Score:2)
Why can;t the rest of us have the version? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why can't the rest of us have Windows that works like that?
Wanna see one? or three? (Score:2)
If you are in the UK then get down to Olympia where the BETT technology in education show [bettshow.com] is running now until Saturday. Entry is free and if you go to stand SW105 (upstairs in the small hall where Linuxworld was) you will find The Open Learning Centre where we have three lovely little OLPC laptops meshed and ready to play with. We have had an amazing day today. Everyone wants to see them, people are queuing up just to hold them and see the screen.
Once y
Stay away! (Score:2)
The open nature of OLPC is what makes it great. A new generation of highly skilled computer users who can use technology to help themselves and their society out of poverty. Microsoft want to destroy all that just because they want another generation of MS-tax paying customers.
This is not just ugly and immoral, it is also both sad and sickening. I will never by a Microsoft product a
OLPC what ? (Score:2)
This is rediculous! (Score:2)
Good job M$, you sank a great project and stifled the adoption of computers in 3rd world countries. You've effectively reversed your role as a contributer to the world of technology.
FUCK!
The price just went up... (Score:2)
Why not triple boot so children can boot Linux? (Score:2)
BTW, the KDE windows manager is not needed to run kde programs, just X11 and the KDE libraries.
If the OLPC supported triple boot, then people could create alternate ways to run programs that are not written in sugar, but booting REAL LINUX!
Translated (Score:2)
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2) There is an SDHC slot already built into the device which supports up to 256GB cards (if they existed). This space can readily be mounted permanently (fstab) or semi-permanently (alias) into the directory structure, as I've done with my 8GB card.
KeS
Re: Dual Boot Tricks (Score:3, Insightful)
In the seven seconds of space when a nasty salesman is spreading FUD about the Linux half, even a Linux expert might not find the poison pill in time for the emotional hysterics to win the day.
Maybe this would be a use for stray batches of Vista code.