Microsoft Wants OLPC System to Run Windows XP 553
Stony Stevenson passed us a link to an IT News story about Microsoft's recent request that the folks behind the XO laptop redesign it to suit their needs. The company now wants to be able to run Windows XP on the highly-publicized and inexpensive portable. "Microsoft general manager ... Utzschneider says a shrunken version of Windows XP could potentially run on 2 Gbytes of flash memory. The XO, however, can only hold 1 Gbyte. As a result, Microsoft wants the XO's designers to add a slot through which more memory can be added via a secure digital (SD) card, Utzschneider said. Microsoft's renewed interest in participating in OLPC might be viewed by skeptics as an admission that a rival offering for developing markets called Classmate — which uses an Intel processor on Microsoft software — has failed to catch on."
arrogance (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:arrogance (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:4, Insightful)
Copyright law is a great evil in society, and it's important that children are taught to question it. Windows won't do that.
Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:5, Insightful)
Teaching people how to think is one of the biggest holes in current educational systems I have experienced. And learning to hack on a toy computer can offer up a lot of educational experience in that regard.
Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:5, Insightful)
This is precisely why the OLPC project is so laughably absurd. Take a $200 device that is fragile (it's ruggedized but still electronics), is an environmental hazard to dispose of, and has a lifespan measured in years...and use it to replace books, which are far more rugged, cheaper to produce, and have a lifespan measured in centuries. There are good reasons to spread information technology, but "should be used to replace books" is not one of them.
OLPC is a rich man's idea of what poor men need. It's like donating an expresso machine to a homeless shelter.
Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Text is the easiest thing for a device like this to store, access, and display. By having one a child could have every text ever digitized available to them. To me that sounds more valuable than $200.
Also, while rugged, physical books are not perfect in a developing, rural environment. How much space would $200 worth of books take to store? How do you keep them from getting wet and dirty?
Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:5, Insightful)
How do you keep them from getting wet and dirty?
Very good point. In a humid environment, I could see books rotting before the OLPC would fail.
Figure a textbook on the cheap is 5 bucks. This is 1/10 to 1/20th of what many class textbooks in the USA cost. It'd also be very close to physical cost, after all, we're talking about large books here, frequently color.
Then the break even point is 40 books(assuming the books, in electronic format at least, are free). It would have been 20 if they'd managed to meet their original cost goal. Stick some extras in there like an encyclopedia. There's many options.
For a 'normal' course load, I'd figure on 5 books a semester. Stuff like Math, Reading, Writing, History, Geography. While you could consider Reading/Writing one subject, you can also tack on a foreign language, speech, science, etc...
So it'd take 8 semesters or 4 years to pay itself off - if all it did was replace textbooks. Which it doesn't - it can also be used for test taking, quizzes, notes, additional reference materials, helping the parents apply for an online loan, etc... I'm sure somebody will produce educational games for it eventually - sure, it might have minimal specs for today, but it's still an order of magnitude more powerful than the machine I played Oregon trail on back when I was in school.
Perhaps the most important thing it could do is help the next generation become comfortable with technology, and resist superstition. We are talking about some very poor areas here.
Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:5, Insightful)
The OLPC with its native mesh networking and internet connectivity will put libraries in the hands of many students for less than it would cost to buy, ship, and store the hardcopy books they would otherwise need for a good K-12 education. Looked at only as a method of distributing traditional written materials, the OLPC is a fantastically good idea.
Additionally, OLPC provides any high school student with access to the expanding world of OpenCourseWare (OCW). The complete curricular materials for about 1,800 MIT undergraduate courses are now available as OCW. Carnegie-Mellon, John Hopkins, and an increasing number of other post high school facilities are adding to the OCW libraries, as well.
The OLPC is not only ruggedized, it has been designed so that field maintenance can be done by persons with no special training or tools. Some will break, obviously. They can be cannabilized to keep others functioning.
The world is changing. Try to keep up.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The world is changing. Try to keep up.
Oh, well, when you put it in terms of an ad hominem, then of course I must agree.
Dude, just trying to help out and all, but if you don't agree now you look kind of slow.
Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:4, Funny)
When I wrote
My words were merely a gratuitous insult. And that is an affront to civility, not a matter of logic.
Kids today. You can't even insult them without them getting it all wrong.
Hey! Get off my lawn!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
As you may or may not be aware, Nicholas Negroponte used to work in African schools. What he says struck him the most is exactly the fact that poor kids were so much interested in technology.
Giving them these laptops is giving them access to millions of libraries, teachers, friends. Yes, the idea of the project is not to give shelter to homeless, but the idea is to give enough education so
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
This may be going against the group think, but ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes Linux is gaining ground and is now on par with Windows or better, but in this case the diversity could be a good thing.
No matter how the OS war goes, MS Windows will be a significant OS for a very long time.
Teaching kids the ins and outs of it could benefit them.
If the country buying the laptops wants to teach their youth Windows, let them. If they want to teach them Linux, the same should apply.
*BUT*
OLPC should set down the ground rules for MS:
- The version of windows should be provided to OLPC for free.
- The additional cost needed to upgrade the hardware to support WinXP should be covered by MS.
- The upgraded hardware should be compatable with the Linux based OS that OLPC is using (incase the customer state wants to switch OSs)
- If MS decides that the contribution is not in their interests in the future, they must continue to support those countries that bought the XP version.
MS would jump on these conditions because it creates a future market for them, and only benefits OLPC because there are more options for their clients.
Just my 2 cents
MODS, remember that there is not a -1 Disagree for a reason.
Re:This may be going against the group think, but (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why?
When you answer that question, you'll begin to see just how disruptive a technology the OLPC is, and why it scares the shit out of Microsoft.
Except you can't, not to the extent you can with the OLPC.
Specifically: There's a hotkey to get the source of any running program. If you screw it up, you can restore the original. Can you imagine a better platform to
Why don't you provide some meat there? (Score:5, Funny)
You know, something like this:
Copyright law is a great evil in society
No, Disney invested a lot of money in Steamboat Willie and deserves to have it protected until the end of time. The idea that anyone should be able to steal somebody else's idea is communist and anarchist. Why, what would have happened if anyone could steal anyone else's great works, like Buster Keaton or Rudyard Kipling?
Windows is actively damaging to a child's education
You don't want to teach children how to think for themselves. That makes for terrible consumers. Better to wait until they have grown up and shown responsibility before lettnig them learn how to think independently and work out puzzles on their own.
Windows encourages a poor mental model of computation...from its... "priacy is bad"...
Of course piracy is bad! The MPAA and RIAA have put a lot of work into creating laws for us to follow (see the second point above) and it is their prerogative to make us pay for every time we listen to anything and to pay for singing Happy Birthday -- you didn't write it, why should you get to sing somebody else's hard work for free? What makes you think you should be able to pay once and listen to something on several different devices or at different times? Next thing you know, people will consider it their right to play music on a stereo that multipel people can listen to at once without individual headphone-enabled properly paid for copies.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's also fairly ridiculous to claim that copyright needs to just up and disappear. Aside from its long-held presence in the common law, it's also good logical sense and enshrined in legal codes around the globe.
See, one of the lovely things about copyright law is that the author of the work gets to decide what to do with it. If they feel like their work should be distributed to
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Because laws are there for the good of society, not just to please the individual.
### However, I cannot in any respect see how copyright law is evil.
The idea behind copyright is a good one, since it encourages creation of new content, the current implementation however is god awful one and completly unusable in the day and age of the Internet. The only reason why society hasn't collapsed yet is because the copyright laws are hard to enf
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Copyright law originated for the sole purpose of government management and censorship of that pesky newfangled printing press invention. If not for that quirk of history origin and inheriting the descendant of that system, it is FAR from obvious that copyright inherently makes any "good logical sense" at all.
If I'm sitting alone in my cave and I have a chunk of wood, it makes obvious good logical sense that I have every right and freedom to stick my finger into some black ash and finger-
Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:5, Insightful)
When/How did politics get involved with any of this? What, at all, does OLPC do that is immoral? How does "hypocracy" at all come into play with OLPC's mission statement? Where the hell do you get the idea that there are FOSS advocates who simply use the OLPC as a way to spite Microsoft?
What OLPC is about is bringing computers to parts of the world with low income. So what does that mean? The computers have to have as much of an inexpensive design as possible while still being functional. Therefore, it is necessary to choose an operating system that 1) is least demanding of powerful hardware, and 2) is cost-efficient. A GNU/Linux distro immediately solves number 2. Zero cost. As for number 1, an open-source operating system allows you to truly fine-tune it to only include what is really needed, thus allowing you to remove unnecessary things that would eat up memory and disk space. Windows won't let you do that.
OLPC could really care less about trying to shoot Microsoft out of the water. If people choose to pay for Windows and Office, more power to 'em.
But if they have a truly low budget and want a functional computer for the least amount of money, then OLPC would be the best way to bring computing to their children and schools.
No "FOSSies" "using" children. No "rabid" extremism. No hypocrisy in any of that.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
A kid spending his day farming isn't going to say, "man, I could really go for a /. break right now."
Well...they'd better get their damn priorities STRAIGHT!
And furthermore, how's he supposed to survive without his quota of porn...or be unable to have a MySpace page for gosh sakes!
Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:4, Informative)
A $100 laptop will last a lot longer than $100 of food will. Plus, they'll help with the kids education, which might just help them escape the poverty cycle they're in. Teach a man to fish, and all that.
As for the electricity point, that's probably why solar and mechanical generators are being developed.
Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:4, Insightful)
I partly agree, but it's kind of an over-simplification. There are of course intermediate levels of poverty where children have access to the very basic resources as well as education, but their families or schools can't afford your average computers. OLPC is aiming to that crowd, I think, which is likely to be quite large and will largely benefit from it.
There are already thousands of these being ordered worldwide, so the idea can't be that bad.
Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:4, Interesting)
Anyway, OLPC works best in areas with a little infrastructure and working poor. It's a tool that could open much of the world to the world economy vs. aid without end. The 3rd world is not going to grow up in the same way we did. They are happy to skip land lines and go strait to cell phones and they are happy to skip over DOS. All they need is something to trade and like India and China the economy will start go grow rapidly.
Re: (Score:3)
It's about have the next generation with enough computer skills to attack businesses. Companies - for better or worse (my job has started outsourcing so I personally don't like it) move their businesses where work is cheap. When the business comes, the electricity comes, the running water comes, and the food comes.
A population dependent on people's "good will" will never be a well fed population.
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Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:4, Insightful)
OLPC is a device for communication and creativity.
With its word processor, you can learn to write.
With its drawing package and its camera, you can learn to create art.
With its eBook reader you can learn from literature and textbooks.
With its email and chat programs, you can share your work, ask questions of remote peers or teachers.
OLPC can help people learn geography, maths, science, history, wind generator maintenance, sustainable agriculture, etc. Any "computer skills" picked up along the way are purely a side benefit.
This is one reason non-FOSS software has no place in it. It would turn a communications and creativity exercise into just another way of building a market.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't understand OLPC - at all. [...] Sure, it's great to give a kid a computer. Isn't it better to give the kid some medicine, drinking water, or food?
It is a very subtle and idealistic concept. The entire idea behind it is that the real problem of the third world isn't about medicine, drinking water, or food -- the OLPC is really targeted at kids that have their survival needs taken care of. It's based on the assumption that the real problem is a lack of education and access to information. That if you could give children these two, they would be able to obtain better medicine, drinking water and food.
You guys may find it hard to believe, but there are places that are three days away from ELECTRICITY.
That's why it can be wound up.
A kid spending his day farming isn't going to say, "man, I could really go for a /. break right now."
Really? I s
Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:5, Interesting)
Really? I suppose he wouldn't be too interested in the Natalie Portman jokes or iPhone banter, but neither most poor people nor most slashdotters are so insular and parochial. The OLPC and the Internet facilitate people talking to people, and is thus an absolute good.
More likely the kid is going to do a Google search on improved irrigation techniques. Or learn something about what crops might be better adapted to the soil. Maybe he will join a forum where he can talk to farmers in the first world about farming techniques. Maybe he can go ahead and find a dealer who will give him more for his crops than he is currently getting. I never ceased to be amazed what real, non-geek people find on the Internet. They find things that actually pertain to what they deal with in real life. I on the other hand have been "online" since 2400 baud, so oddly enough all I find are warez, pr0n and security utilities.
Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:5, Insightful)
We get this question a lot. It's a good question.
Yes. If a child doesn't have access to medicine, clean drinking water, or food, those are all more important.
But, even more common than communities that don't have access to those, are communities that do, but still don't have access to education, or communications.
No, but he might say, "I wonder if I can sell some of my excess crops within a reasonable distance", or "Can I get some other kinds of seeds that can grow here" or "Is my brother who I haven't heard from since he fled the village after the last war out there somewhere?"
And the teacher in his school might say "I wish I had an encyclopedia in my language I could show these kids to aid in their lessons."
And his doctor might say "I'm so glad I have a way to consult with my colleagues to help diagnose this kid's disease so he has a good chance of recovery."
Yes. Yes we can. In addition to the above, how about the AIDS educator who can put together a better presentation to try to convince the local city council to help out?
Or the orphan who is able to learn some bookkeeping and is thus able to get a job in a local shop? Or the girl who's able to learn enough science to earn a scholarship to a nearby university?
All of these, of course, are examples from real projects where people have used computers donated by GWoB or other organizations.
Depends who you mean by "They". There are people who are, literally, starving. Long before they can make use of any donated computers, they need food, then help with infrastructure for growing food and getting a steady supply of clean drinking water. Though in most cases, that's more of a political problem. Extra resources won't help if the local warlord intercepts them because he wants to exterminate you.
But that is, overall, only a tiny portion of the entirety of what's needed out there. OLPC, GWoB, and many other groups are addressing some of the rest of it.
And, just as an extra note about the local tyrant, it is of note that the indigenous people of Chiapas were able to bring pressure to bear on their government because they were able to get the word out quickly thanks in large part to their access to computers, and the internet. Without the internet, there would probably be no Maya left in the area.
Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't see any logic in taking an extremest point of view of identifying the worst problems and suggesting that doing anything other than dealing with those problems head-on is a waste of time. It's not how mankind has advanced to where we are now. Progress can be made along multiple paths at the same time, and OLPC isn't slowing down any of the other existing support systems.
Re:OLPC is tanking (Score:5, Funny)
umm.. giving it away, MS? (Score:5, Insightful)
also, don't you love it when people who go out of their way to ruin a party decide it's ok for them to attend when no one shows up to theirs?
Re:umm.. giving it away, MS? (Score:5, Insightful)
For a system potentially going out to millions of new computer users, and shaping the way those users view all future technology, yes, they probably would give it out for free if necessary. The first hit comes for free.
Re:umm.. giving it away, MS? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
yes, they probably would give it out for free if necessary. The first hit comes for free. :)
I don't even necessarily think it will be free (unless we're talking on a trial basis).
I think Microsoft is more concerned about OLPC machines being able to run Windows XP versus actually giving XP away. I don't doubt that they may give away demos of XP or something similar, but more than likely Microsoft sees a huge market sector they are guaranteed (at this point) to miss out on.
Microsoft is trying to push into a market segment I think they will continue to have little control - and that is dumbed-
Wrong analysis. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think Microsoft is more concerned about OLPC machines being able to run Windows XP versus actually giving XP away. I don't doubt that they may give away demos of XP or something similar, but more than likely Microsoft sees a huge market sector they are guaranteed (at this point) to miss out on.
Almost, but not quite.... What M$ fears is all these children (and adults) learning to run a computer that uses Linux-based software. People are creatures of habit. Once they do that, it's unlikely they'll want
Re:umm.. giving it away, MS? (Score:5, Funny)
Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
If they gave IE away for free, I could legally download it and install it under Wine. But I can't legally do that. You have to have a copy of MS-Windows, which means you're really just getting an upgraded component (web browser) of the OS.
Re:Yes (Score:4, Informative)
Re:umm.. giving it away, MS? (Score:5, Interesting)
come on... (Score:5, Interesting)
If i was Negroponte, i wouldn't say a flat 'NO'. I would ask for the source code
Re:come on... (Score:5, Interesting)
Without knowing in any way for certain, my guess is that the Windows source code is a horrible mess, and thus is not worth OLPC's consideration.
XP Embedded (Score:3, Informative)
WinCE runs on various architectures, but it is a toy OS. Still, CE would be capable of serving educational goals.
Many of the experimental NT kernels (PowerPC, MIPS, etc) sowed some of the seeds for WinCE.
XP Embedded does not provide the full MS experience. To get people addicted to MS KoolAid needs more than that.
Re:umm.. giving it away, MS? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:umm.. giving it away, MS? (Score:4, Funny)
The XBOX does not have the Windows GUI or apps. A laptop running the XBOX OS would be about as useful as a dating tip from a Babylon 5 fan.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:umm.. giving it away, MS? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:How about some sponsorship... (Score:5, Insightful)
> give the "shrunken" Windows XP to the project for free as an optional choice for those who wish to use it
Nope, wrong attitude. OLPC isn't just giving out hardware, they are trying to provide an end to end solution. Just getting XP to boot does nothing. If Microsoft wants to order large lots with additional flash they should be offered the opportunity.... provided THEY intend to provide an operating system, applications, the Microsoft based server infrastructure to support the mesh networking (from Windows clients) back end data store, Internet connectivity, securing the laptops from malware and theft, etc. I.e. the total solution OLPC is offering.
But since OLPC has already expended countless hours of both paid and contributed labor designing the current system and since just an offer of XP (even if offered for $0) adds zero functionality and would require a total redesign of both the hardware, software and infrastructure it would be pointless for OLPC to consider switching at this late stage.
Umm... this is surprising how? (Score:4, Insightful)
nice (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Right. It means that they fell behind the beginning, lost ground from the start, got lapped by inertia, you know.
Yes, I'm being extremely rude because I KNOW parent is a native speaker. Non-native speakers do not make such silly mistakes. Oh, btw, English is my second language...
So having learned English as a second language, you know how idiomatic it is.
It's OK, you'll get it eventually. We
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
something more important
There are very few things more important than decent communication skills!
Microsoft is horrified because (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft is horrified because (Score:5, Interesting)
Two weeks later it was hosed again so I reinstalled XP yet again, and installed Mandriva as dual boot. I disabled networking in Windows, problems solved.
He found Mandriva/KDE easier to use than XP. But then again, he'd never used a computer before and didn't have to unlearn anything.
-mcgrew
LOL! (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, and I want to get laid. [slashdot.org] Good luck to us both, but I'm pretty sure I'll get laid before Vista runs on an OLPC. In fact, when Vista runs on an OLPC I'm going to get one and play Duke Nukem 4ever on it.
OVPC (Score:5, Funny)
Re:OVPC (Score:5, Funny)
Because guaranteed, there would be more than one.
What?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Given the nature of the machine, I don't see why MS should have any trouble shrinking XP to under 1GB.
Anyway, what help has MS given to the project and/or what help are they offering to make this request even remotely worth the consideration of the XO project?
How about the software though? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think Microsoft are looking at XO as a low cost laptop instead of as a delivery platform for education and collaboration.
Re:How about the software though? (Score:5, Insightful)
Good points, all. Let's just summarise by asking one simple question: Why?
The XO has everything it needs already. I've done a month-long evaluation of one of the late prototypes and I can assure you that there is no similar combination of software available for Windows. And even if such a beast existed, there is no way it could be made to run as well on 128 MB RAM and a 400 MHz processor. And even if it could, it wouldn't be as nicely integrated into the overall environment. And even if it were perfectly integrated, there's no way it would come as cheap. And even if it did come as cheap, there's no way people could get the source and alter it to their individual needs.
... But let's just summarise by asking that one simple question: Why?
Stop the presses! (Score:5, Funny)
Now children can read their books by cool blue light! Once the capabilities of the OLPC are bumped up to run Windows comfortably, they will also be able to heat their food* on the machine itself!
* Microsoft has declined to provide food.
That is so Microsoft (Score:5, Interesting)
Classic.
Let the bloat begin (Score:5, Insightful)
Then I guess I'm a "purist" on this one. An internal SD slot would be nice, but then so would a Core 2 Duo... you have to draw the line and when you're shooting for $100 you have to draw it very soon. I don't think the OLPC will succeed by conforming to Wintel; by definition, if Microsoft really understood this niche, it wouldn't exist for OLPC to fill!
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That's pretty much the heart of the matter, right there. Microsoft doesn't get the point of the project. They perceive it a platform for possible brand expansion and user lock-in, and care little about the humanistic goals. Its not about what the OLPC can do for the users, but what it can do for Microsoft.
This is really disturbing.
It ALREADY has an SD card slot (Score:5, Informative)
External connectors
(...)
- Flash Expansion: SD Card slot.
See also: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/SD [laptop.org] .Re:It ALREADY has an SD card slot (Score:5, Informative)
Amazing... (Score:4, Insightful)
Too bad that back around '96 we only heard fudware/vaporware from the likes of and from ms when others kept demanding smaller windows footprint in disk space, RAM, and other resources. When competition fell and died, ms never really followed through.
Now, with virtualization (WINE, Win4Lin, VMWare, Virtual Box, Bochs, et al), numerous terminal setups, kiosk modes, a besieging amount of Open Source software, populous countries with attractive budgets, and other factors make ms just go into me-too, and copy-cat mode, innovation being just a buzzword to check off on marketing brochures and bandy in conventions.
Now, if only Open Source developers would somehow garner the attention of human interface design and make thinks vastly more polished and less rickety/designed-for-the-nerdgineer, and if people like myself (non-developers) could make use of Eclipse, Glade, Trolltech's software, and things like that, we could spark a whole new renaissance of non-ms stuff that could level the playing field.
How dare ms try to push manufacturers to add more than Linux requires to get OLPC out there. This is just to dick up the manufacturing process to delay boxes otherwise slated for OLPC assembly and deployment, at least as I see it...
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I'm an open source developer. Programmer that is. I don't get paid for what I do, nor do I ask to get paid. I would love to be an artist, musician, GUI designer, programmer, tester, everything to be able to make the perfect software but unfortunately I am not. I do the best I can and
Luckily (Score:5, Insightful)
That's what I'd do anyway.
Who in the right mind would try to educate young kids about computers while using Windows?
Yes, a lot of us new geeks started on Windows, but as soon as we got to "know Unix" we jumped that crappy ship and never looked back.
GNU/Linux and FOSS are the way of the future. It's like p2p networks and RIAA. You can't magically stop the spread of open knowledge.
Negroponte will give them a stable and innovative learning platform that will benefit both their computing skills and more importantly their general education and knowledge.
Just the other day I thought about making a bumper sticker or a shirt that says "Microsoft is the reason you suck at computers."
(I've just trademarked that.) (Or is it copyrighted? WTH, I'll do both.)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
But will he? He's already struck a very odd deal with Intel. Unfortunately for Negroponte, he was thrown into the fray with MS and Intel when they decided to compete with OLPC. Both assume they're big enough to look that bad and they're right. Now Intel has joined OLPC and what becomes of AMD? How pissed must they be?
Many
OLPC's response (Score:5, Funny)
Hey Microsoft... BUILD YOUR OWN! (Score:5, Interesting)
Why don't you BUILD one? I'm sure you could make it "better" and you'd have a whole new customer base. You could even lock out competitors.
Or better yet, why dontcha give away copies of Windows CE? That runs under a gig... doesn't it?
Vista-Capable OLPC (Score:4, Funny)
What's the point? (Score:5, Interesting)
More than it seems... (Score:5, Insightful)
So, Microsoft wants the XO to run their operating system? Are they willing to release the source code to Windows XP *and* let kids rewrite it??
This isn't merely Microsoft wanting to change one little hardware spec. The ramifications are that the laptops will probably require more power to run that extra SD slot; the laptop will cost more for the redesign, re-molding, extra parts; the whole philosophy of the software will change and the kid's desire to explore and tinker stifled. I don't think Microsoft cares beyond a "developing countries == potential market" attitude...
p.s. If you want to buy an XO, that's also the link: http://www.laptopgiving.org/ [laptopgiving.org]
Imagine the reply (Score:4, Funny)
From: OLPC
To: Microsoft
re: Redesign
Dear Microsoft,
Our design works for us. It's set. We won't change it. Would would, however, be willing to offer XP as an alternate operating system. You'll just need to redesign it to fit our needs.
Sincerely,
The XO team
P.S.: Sorry to hear about the Classmate.
Why Windows on the OLPC is a bad idea. (Score:5, Informative)
2. Viruses/Spyware - this is a computer designed to give new users an introduction to computing, and a tool for education, can you imagine the grief virii would cause here, especially in a mass scale / network environment.
3. Cost.
4. Linux is not communism, Vendor lock-in is.
I'm a sysadmin at a school in South Africa, the funding is poor, the choices we have are limited. I really feel strongly against bringing M$ into the OLPC scene, these computers are about education, sharing and hopefully the spirit of giving. Not virii, DRM, WGA, Vendor Lock-In and legal woes.
I for one would not welcome these monopolistic overlords.
bizarre story (Score:5, Informative)
I don't think this is an admission of anything. (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft has a long history of announcing new vaporware whenever someone does something interesting to try and keep as many people waiting until the Microsoft branded version comes out. Anyone remember Cairo? Microsoft was going to have us using a fulltext searchable metadata-rich filesystem back in the early 1990's so we didn't have to retrain to build on NeXT. Microsoft was going to be bringing us pen-based computers in the late 1980's so nobody should early-adopt with Dylan on Newton.
They don't have any intention of getting Windows to run on the OLPC. If they can buy enough time for the OLPC to run out of money, they don't have to do anything, and that is more like Microsoft. So long as Microsoft has presence in a market, the market remains stalled, and the state of the art languishes.
The XO has an SD slot already... (Score:4, Informative)
The important part is to note the verb's tense. MSFT said "we asked OLPC to add a SD card". The OLPC folks complied, and the slot's been there for a while.
Since I develop some software that's made its way onto the laptop, I managed to pick up a B2 machine a few months ago, complete with SD slot (in the most awkward place - under the monitor but above the keyboard. almost impossible to get to).
See http://www.laptop.org/laptop/hardware/specs.shtml [laptop.org], under the "external connectors" section.
It's already got it... (Score:5, Informative)
1) The machine is in production. It's too late to make hardware changes. Wayyyyy too late.
2) It's already got an SD slot. And it will hold a 4gb, possibly 8gb, SD device.
3) OLPC is not really interested in running Windows..or any other proprietary product (even the Marvell Libertas has been a very contentious issue). Go port XP to the XO if you want, but don't expect to be welcomed with open arms.
4) How can you be so clueless as to the above facts? Perhaps you could blithely ignore #3, but #1 and #2 are pretty evident.
Microsoft is struggling to adapt XP (Score:4, Interesting)
Some interesting stories:
concerns for this all [olpcnews.com]
general info about the things MS is doing [wired.com]
Vista Killer? (And so it goes...) (Score:3, Interesting)
If I could get a $100 laptop that ran a stripped down XP? I'd wallpaper my house with them! OLPR (One Laptop per Room and two in the LOO!) And then, when Vista 2012 comes out, and they want me to upgrade for some super new feature (like being able to print a date (human-type)... I WILL TELL THEM TO KISS MY SHINY METAL XO! Because anything that I need really DOES run on XP, and whatever they are trying to peddle will have the built-in hardware upgrade cost.
A Grid Networking cheap laptop that runs what I've been running at work for 6 years? That would spread through universities and many businesses like Ice-9. Whole universities and neighborhoods would become one single grid. Comcast would have one cable modem per 10 square miles. The market would freeze over to XOs and MS would have to shove Office 2012 down the throats of those using Office XP, as content as a MS user can be. WHY WHY WHY would we upgrade to Vista 2012? SIgn me up!!! And let's start freezing MS with their own OS!!!
And so it goes...
Redesign the hardware? Stupid... (Score:3, Interesting)
What's worse is they're trying to port an old version of their software to it, while telling everyone else that version is obsolete and shouldn't be used.
OLPC aims to help kids in the third world, by providing them a cheap rugged computer they can learn about and build up a community around.
Microsoft just want to get them locked in now, so that when they need support or are looking to buy more machines in the future they have no choice but to pay top dollar to microsoft, or risk losing access to their accumulated data.
The idea behind using open source is that those kids who are naturally technically minded will learn how to support and develop for the system, and create their own local skillbase they can use to support the less technically minded kids around them.
ZeroConf (Score:5, Interesting)
It amazes me how arrogant MS is in this matter. These are laptops designed to be perfect for kids and to educate them and facilitate their access to communications. How does MS think Windows compares? These laptops all mesh seamlessly with one another, using zeroconf to auto-discover other OLPCs and share pictures and music, chat, collaborate on compositions, writings, programs, drawings, and educational games, and share network access. MS hasn't even managed to implement zeroconf in Vista, despite it being a well established standard in use on every other OS, by printers and hardware, and even implemented by specific applications running in Windows (Adobe CS3, Trillian, iTunes). There is even a free reference implementation for .Net, but they haven't bothered to incorporate it. Hey geniuses, why don't you catch up in your core market for a change, instead of trying to destroy competition and innovation in a different one, especially one as important as educating kids.
Reading between the lines (Score:3, Interesting)
Another black mark for Vista.
So long Microsoft, and thanks for all the BSODs.
Bill Gates, the great philanthropist (Score:3, Informative)
A good friend of mine's just been out in Nigeria, seeing how the OLPC initiative's going down and reporting on it for the BBC. He said that the effect it has had on the children is amazing - they've taken to them like ducks to water, and they're hugely proud of them because for most of them it's the most precious thing they own. However, getting Internet access out into rural Nigeria is astronomically expensive (at the minute, over $10,000 per month for a 56 kilobit satellite connection) and he thinks this will be a major stumbling block.
He was also taken to a school which has been kitted out by Intel as a showcase for the Classmate. He said it was stunning - Intel had pumped a fortune into it and the facilities were better than most schools in the UK. Teachers had interactive whiteboards, there was WiMAX everywhere and a superfast connection to the outside world, etc. etc. He was bowled over. And so were the politicians that Intel showed it to, with the result that 1,000 schools are signed up to take delivery of Classmates.
So yet again, we have an organisation trying to do The Right Thing being trampled by big corporations with deep pockets, who see places like Nigeria as nothing but "emerging markets" to be brought under their yoke as quickly as possible, and who aren't prepared to let upstarts like OLPC take their market away before it's established.
I really hope they keep Windows off this thing.
Open letter to Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)
Over the years, we've disagreed on many things, not the least of which is whether you should morally be able to enter a field late and badly, and still take over.
Now I hear that you want to do the same with the OLPC project, and Microsoft, I have a suggestion for you.
Fuck off.
Seriously. I'm sick of you, I'm sick of your attitude, I'm sick of your superiority complex. If the universe suddenly switched directions and you actually provided the best solution in a timely manner, I STILL wouldn't choose it.
So really, Microsoft. Fuck off. Nobody wants you hanging around anymore.
Microsoft seems... (Score:3, Funny)
This summary makes no sense (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft has been porting XP to the OLPC for a while. The problem they are running into is that WinXP is nothing without its applications. In fact, MS isn't even worried about educational apps - its worried about Office. Check out the size of even a minimal install of Word - its not insignificant. However, without Office, XP just doesn't offer that much over a open source OS. *This* is their key stumbling block.
Frankly, this is a no win situation for MS. Unlike most PCs, in the OLPC "form follows function", ie the hardware is explicitly designed to support a certain set of priorities and functions. It can't be back-engineered so that Windows can run on it without either a) making it much more expensive, or b) turning it into just a stripped down Windows machine. If Negroponte holds firm then Windows will always be an inferior, second choice on the machine. Expect MS to hammer at the OLPC for being all sorts of terrible things and Negroponte for being an anti-capitalist obstructionist who belongs in Sweden eating French cheese with John Kerry.
Re:WTF? WinCE (Score:4, Funny)
Why, I love Microsoft! When it comes to truth in advertising, their product names are the absolutely most truthful. Who but MS would name their media player WiMP? Or an OS WinCE? God these guys are hilarious! Or the bloated eye candy OS "Vista"!!!
God I love those guys! Too bad I have to use their software though...
Re:WTF? WinCE (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Trying to get an Osborne Effect going (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft has absolutely no intention of ever actually putting it's software on the OLPC.
The strategy here is to delay or stop OLPC adoption cold. IF there are rumors that an MS version of the OLPC is 'just around the corner' compatible with those 'thousands of educational programs' then a lot of buyers will wait for the new version to come out.
This is what killed the Osborne [wikipedia.org] lo these many years ago. The sales people kept talking about the next bigger better
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)