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Microsoft Media Hardware

Vista Won't Play With Old DVD Drives 726

Posted by Zonk from the taking-their-ball-and-going-home dept.
tlhIngan writes "From a developer's blog, Windows Vista will no longer support DVD-ROM drives that do not handle region coding in hardware (RPC1 drives) - thus preventing playback of DVDs that are region/CSS encoded with those drives. Not a big problem, as RPC1 drives haven't been officially manufactured since 2000 (and Microsoft claims their drives are all broken), but for those with hacked drives (RPC2 with RPC1 firmware), or move the RPC1 drive to new computers, well, no more DVD movies for you!"
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Vista Won't Play With Old DVD Drives More

Vista Won't Play With Old DVD Drives

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  • This is a good thing. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 01, 2006 @06:42AM (#14373635)
    Since we're all a bunch of criminals anyway, this can only help to save us from ourselves. Thanks Microsoft!

  • Why (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Bender Unit 22 ( 216955 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @06:42AM (#14373637) Journal
    would I want Vista anyway?
    I have XP and I don't have any need for Vista.
    Of couse at on point, support stops for XP. But then Linux for the desktop will hopefully be awesome.

    • Re:Why (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 01, 2006 @07:32AM (#14373742)
      Personally, I'm already using Linux exclusively as a desktop on my new system. Why? No, I'm not just posting this to tout linux(Suse 10 is pretty damn slick though), but when I went to install Windows XP-64 on my system, it requires a ***FLOPPY*** disk in order to supply drivers for my SATA drive. My system doesn't have a floppy drive. WTF!? It's the year 2006, and a 64bit operating system that was released what, 4 months ago, requires a god damned floppy drive to install it? WTF is that about?

      True, I could go out and buy a floppy drive, or pull a floppy drive from another system, but is that reasonable in this day and age? WTF happened to "it just works"? No it don't.

      It seems like there's always some stupid fucking annoyance whenever I try to deal with Windows. People bitching about having to drop to a command line, shit. Get back to me when you have to rip apart two computers and swap ancient ass hardware you have no intention of using, just to get the operating system to install.

      Yeah, I can't wait for vista. God only knows what the fuck weird problem I'm going to run into. If I was inclined to paranoia, I'd think the Windows team is able to look into the future and discern what hardware combination I'm going to buy, so they can engineer Windows to work for everyone else smoothly, but require some asinine step from me just to piss me off. /end ranting, whining, bitching, and moaning.

      • Re:Why (Score:3, Informative)

        by PhotoBoy ( 684898 )
        Yeah the floppy drive thing for RAID/SCSI/etc drivers is unbelievably stupid. There is a way to slipstream drivers onto a Windows XP CD but it's quite complex and doesn't work with certain drivers e.g. drivers for Nforce 4 motherbaords.

        Of course you need to have a working computer to burn the CD in the first place. Not much good if you're building a computer from scratch!

      • Re:Why (Score:4, Funny)

        by jacksonj04 ( 800021 ) <nick@nickjackson.me> on Sunday January 01, 2006 @08:17AM (#14373831) Homepage
        I thought all true geeks had to have a floppy drive? How else do you flash the BIOS?

      • Re:Why (Score:3, Insightful)

        by zootm ( 850416 )

        I had to hang a floppy drive out of the side of my Shuttle system, it was highly annoying!

        Although that said, my attempts to run Linux on the machine ended up in frustration when it turned out that it had no support for the SATA unit whatsoever...

      • Re:Why (Score:3, Insightful)

        by HaloZero ( 610207 )
        Not in any way trying to defend Microsoft's stupidity on this issue, but you have this option: Sony USB Floppy Device [newegg.com]. Sure, it's a bit pricey, but it's portable. These things work great, especially for computers whose floppy drives have died, and you need to ghost them from a floppy disk. 'Course, this idea is requisite that you have an available USB port, which I hope your new floppy-less machine does have.

        As a related gripe, why the hell can't you just use a USB jumpdrive to load the drivers for the h

      • Re:Why (Score:4, Funny)

        by ceeam ( 39911 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @12:36PM (#14374512)
        Be thankful it does not require a _region-coded_ floppy drive!!!

      • Re:Why (Score:3, Insightful)

        by gscrivano ( 850402 )
        Who needs Vista? I have no problems and no limitations with my GNU/Linux. I can change all the hardware I want with small changes to the configuration and not getting a broken system when I add/replace something.

      • Re:Why (Score:5, Interesting)

        by topham ( 32406 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @01:47PM (#14374788) Homepage

        I get to spend the day trying to get an ATI video card working in my mothers computer.

        My dad calls me and asks if the card would be a good upgrade from the existing card and I suggested he try to see if there was an Nvidia card instead that might be a good deal. There wasn't. So I decide that my bias against ATI is several years old and they have probably fixed their drivers by now. (Which I have been assured by numerous people were all fixed and good since I bought my ATI all In Wonder years ago.).

        So I tried installing it the other day and spent god knows how long getting an error message at the end of the install process telling me to install the standard VGA drivers. Of which there does not seem to be any for Windows XP. (No, booting in the VGA mode didn't solve that problem).

        Since I had things to do last night for New Years I left before I could figure out the issue but now I have to travel back to my parents place and fix the problem.

        As much as hardware for my Mac tends to be more expensive, I'll take the price hit over the GOD DAMN HASSLE of Windows hardware.

        I am utterly sick of having to print out pages of information not provided by manufacturers just to install their products on the CURRENT VERSION of a Windows OS.

        And ATI is back on my forbidden hardware list.

        • Re:Why (Score:3, Interesting)

          by aaronl ( 43811 )
          Heh, we'll both probably end up modded down, but I share your pain. Even the ATI drivers under Linux suck completely. With NVIDIA on Linux, I run the installer and restart X. With NVIDIA on Windows, I run the installer and restart Windows. With ATI on either, I run the installer, get reminded to uninstall the old drivers, try to uninstall them, have it not uninstall completely, try to install the new drivers, get either a BSOD or a VGA screen, screw around some more, grab an older version, and eventuall

      • Re:Why (Score:4, Insightful)

        by chasingporsches ( 659844 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @01:50PM (#14374805)
        IIRC, apple patented "it just works" technology, leaving all other software and hardware companies with "it might just work... maybe." technology, hence your floppy problem (and yes, i am referring to your computer disk drive, not something that can be cured with medicine). microsoft quickly grabbed that patent up though, so linux users are left with "g-d damnit, i'll hack this til it works" technology.

    • Re:Why (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Dion ( 10186 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @07:57AM (#14373791) Homepage
      The drive is not involved in region coding when the player does DeCSS in software in stead of cooperating with the drive about it, so all you need to do is use a user-loyal player in stead of a broken one.

    • Re:Why (Score:5, Insightful)

      by aussie_a ( 778472 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @08:30AM (#14373858) Journal
      I know Vista just keeps giving me more and more reason to overcome my difficulties with Linux. I want a computer that does what I want. Not some piece of DRM'd-up-the-wazzoo shit. (As an Australian I really dislike region coding).

      • Re:Why (Score:5, Interesting)

        by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * on Sunday January 01, 2006 @09:39AM (#14373992) Homepage Journal
        DRM and region coding are going to be the best advertisement F/OSS ever had.
        Furthermore, people who otherwise have no problem paying for content will feel increasingly comfortable doing things that are "technically" illegal, concepts of what is "reasonable" having been thoroughly sodomized.
        So, let's blow by the angst and instead focus on promoting companies at every point in the chain who treat their customers like free, adult human beings.

      • Re:Why (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Solosoft ( 622322 )
        This is the way I look at it ...

        Strangely enough, pirates get more then the normal user. I steal my CD off the internet I get a non DRM encumbered CD. I go out and buy the CD via itunes or somthing of the source. It's all locked up. People are worried about DRM don't. The only time that DRM will be an issue is if you buy somthing.

        My Solution ?
        Don't buy anything. Want that CD download it here [piratebay.org]
        Want that serial ?
        irc.efnet.net #Serialz
        Ive not once seen any DRM on my computer (that I know of) and I d

    • Re:Why (Score:3, Interesting)

      by rpdillon ( 715137 ) *
      My reaction exactly, except I use Linux instead. =) I know that a lot of users simply *need* Windows (or at least think they need Windows). Since I found that VMWare Player can create images and manage snapshots quite well, I've been happy to recommend running Windows inside Linux to my friends/family that feel the need. I might even set up a VMWare image for myself of XP when I get back home after the holidays.

      Which leads me to my point: I wonder how Vista will handle VMWare. We've been hearing about al

  • first goatse! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 01, 2006 @06:43AM (#14373638)
    First Goatse [www.goat.cx] of 2006!
    Trolls, fire up your keyboards; only 12 months until /.'s 10th anniversary!

  • What about places like new zealand? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Saven Marek ( 739395 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @06:46AM (#14373642)
    what about places like new zealand where it is illegal to sell a region coded piece of hardware. does this count as like rpc1? does this mean Win Vista will not run in new zealand? if not then whatever new zealanders do will be able to be used anywhere else to get region free dvd drives on windows. if yes, then microsoft loses new zealand to linux in ten seconds flat.

    • Re:What about places like new zealand? (Score:5, Funny)

      by dancingmad ( 128588 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @06:51AM (#14373655)
      if yes, then microsoft loses new zealand to linux in ten seconds flat.

      Somehow I doubt this keeps Bill Gates up at night.

    • Re:What about places like new zealand? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 01, 2006 @07:14AM (#14373708)
      Ah yes, but region-free encoding still requires encoding in hardware - to say it's region-free. Instead of saying "this drive only plays region 1", you're saying "this drive plays region 1, 2, 3, 4 etc..." - regardless of region, it's still gotta decode it. Region-free does not magically unencode the contents!

      The story is a bit misleading - basically Windows Vista will only support drives that do something in hardware, rather than the old style drives that required it to be done in software. It's not a DRM issue, just dropping of support for older drives - and saves them a bunch of problems building a driver layer in for what are legacy devices.

      • Re:What about places like new zealand? (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 01, 2006 @08:30AM (#14373855)
        Actually, it is a DRM issue. You probably don't know exactly how DVDs work.

        The DVD video data itself is encrypted. In order to decrypt it, a DVD player app is supposed to ask the drive for the decryption keys. On older drives, the drive will give the player app those decryption keys regardless of what region the disc is coded for. The drive doesn't know what region the player app thinks it's in, and doesn't care. It simply hands the keys over to the player, which then enforces region encoding. The encryption is separate from the region coding - it's possible to have a region coded disc without CSS encrpyion (although it won't be effective), and it's possible to have a CSS encrypted disc without region coding.

        Newer drives refuse to hand over the decryption keys if the disc's region code doesn't match the drive's region code. That is the ONLY difference between older and newer drives. Official DVD player apps will not be able to read the decryption keys if the disc region code doesn't match the drive region code, because the drive won't give up the keys. This was added because some users started finding ways around the software-enforced region coding system (such as registry hacks, tricking the DVD player app into working in region-free mode, or whatever).

        Of course, open-source DVD player apps (which are illegal in the US anyway) don't even attempt to grab the decryption key from the drive - they deduce the decryption key by examining the encrypted data, using a known-plaintext attack. They don't enforce region coding either, and are completely unaffected by hardware region coding. That's the only reason I've not bothered reflashing my DVD drive to make it region free - I don't need to.

        The ONLY reason Microsoft are doing this is for DRM purposes. There is no other legitimate reason. Older drives do not need extra code (in fact, they need less code than newer drives), they don't need compatability layers, or any that stuff. All current (official) DVD player apps enforce region coding in software anyway, before they even ask the drive for the decryption key. This is only there to prevent people running patched firmware to make their drives region-free.

        They'll probably add code to prevent DVD rippers and open-source DVD players from working as well.

        • Re:What about places like new zealand? (Score:4, Interesting)

          by zootm ( 850416 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @11:13AM (#14374217)

          Older drives do require extra code, because if Vista includes DVD playing software they would be legally (I think? Certainly mandated by DVD consortiums in any case) obliged to write software to enforce the region coding in software, since (as you mention) this is not handled in hardware. Just playing the disc is no more difficult, as you mention, but this is misleading since that's not all they have to do.

          But yes, this is all about DRM. I'm not convinced that it's Microsoft's "bad" in this case, though.

          • Yes, but in an RPC-2 drive the software STILL needs to handle region-coding - specifically, it needs to report which region it is to the drive, which then ensures that this matches with the drive's region. The actual decryption is still done in software.

            Think of it like this:

            RPC-1 drive:

            software : Please supply decryption keys for the DVD
            RPC-1 drive : OK, here you go.
            software: Ooh, this is a region 1 DVD, but I'm in region 2. ... DVD doesn't play.

            software : Please supply decryption keys for the DVD
            RPC-1 dr
      • It is a DRM issue - it appears that Windows Vista will only play DVDs if you have a drive capable of region coding (a RPC2 drive, i.e. DRM-supported).

        From Microsoft: [microsoft.com]

        Every CSS-licensed DVD-Video playback device must be set to a single region. There are two types of DVD-ROM drives:

        RPC Phase 1 (hereafter referred to as RPC1). RPC1 drives do not have built-in hardware support for region management. For these drives, Windows maintains the region change count information, and the region can be set only once

    • It isn't illegal to sell stuff with region coding here ( New Zealand, of course ). My DVD player ( Sony ) is region 4 and my aunt's DVD player ( Panasonic I think ) is also region 4 but does at least have a relatively easy to use remote hack to change the region, unlike my one. I have around 5 DVD drives in various computers, all purchased in NZ ( Apple/PC/upgraded new drives ) and all are region locked. One of my laptops ( iBook ) has patched firmware so it is region free. You can get region free DVD play

  • Who has to use Vista? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pesc ( 147035 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @06:47AM (#14373644)
    ...but for those with hacked drives (RPC2 with RPC1 firmware), or move the RPC1 drive to new computers, well, no more DVD movies for you!

    Funny reasoning!

    So why do you think you have to use Vista?
    Or if you think you need to upgrade your OS, why don't you consider Linux which I'm sure offers a better DVD watching experience than Vista on that hardware?

    • Re:Who has to use Vista? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by SB5 ( 165464 )
      Because Linux isn't exactly known for being user friendly, especially in the desktop market.

      • Re:Who has to use Vista? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by SillyNickName4me ( 760022 ) <dotslash@bartsplace.net> on Sunday January 01, 2006 @03:22PM (#14375205) Homepage
        Because Linux isn't exactly known for being user friendly, especially in the desktop market.

        'User friendly'...

        Some people call a system user friendly when it is easy for an unexperienced user to access the functionality they want.

        The problem is that this almost always gets in the way for those who are more experienced users. It does this in many ways, for example by hiding or simply lacking more complex functionality, addressing the user as if (s)he is stupid etc.

        In most cases, you start out without experience, after some use you gain experience, and after some more time, you can be said to be a somewhat experienced user. This last phase lasts substantially longer then the 'unexperienced user' phase.

        Hence, reasoning that a system that caters to unexperienced users is 'user friendly' is stupid.

        Call such a system 'easy accessable' or something else that points at the fact that you need little experience for using it, but don't say it is friendly to the user because for most users it is the opposite.

        Ah, but most people do not use their computers enough to ever become an experienced user? True if you talk about 'consumers', but then, thats true for most tech markets that happen to include normal consumers. THere is 'pro' and consumer grade audio equipment, video equipment etc etc. Professional video equipment has a lot more functionality and quality then consumer grade equipment, and usually combines it with a more powerfull interface, putting more power in the hands of the editor. It can only do that if that interface is also 'friendly' to that editor, else it will just be confusing and get in the way.

        The same really applies to software on 'general purpose' computers, and it is your choice if you want to act as a 'low grade' consumer or as a (semi) professional. Stop thinking this has anythign to do with one being more 'user friendly' then the other however.

    • Re:Who has to use Vista? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by broothal ( 186066 ) <christian@fabel.dk> on Sunday January 01, 2006 @07:59AM (#14373797) Homepage Journal
      Or if you think you need to upgrade your OS, why don't you consider Linux

      I use linux for all my daily work, but I still dual-boot into XP when I need to do DTP. I haven't seen a single piece of DTP software on linux that is useful. (Yes, I mention this from time to time hoping that somewhere, somone knows of a DTP application for Linux that's actually usable which I've missed. In that case, let me know so I can ditch XP altogether ;)

  • ...so what? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Paul Bristow ( 118584 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @06:53AM (#14373661) Homepage
    I never installed XP at home, and don't miss it. I'm certainly not going to install Vista anywhere.

    Besides, the easy way to watch DVDs on crippled OS's like Windows is to rip it and re-record it without region codes, or no-skip flags. It makes a backup of your DVD and you can watch it anywhere.

    Happy New Year!

  • Let's be suicidal, shall we? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DMouse ( 7320 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @06:56AM (#14373667) Homepage
    Why do the big players not get the long tail fact that stopping people from seeing your stuff is suicidal? There is so much other good stuff out there fighting for attention, be it news sites, blogs, podcasts, videocasts, flashfilms, indie films, et bloody cetera.

    The money is in editorial branding. And that is because editorial choice is a way of dealing with information overload. It's so freaking obvious, yet none of the majors seem to get it. Even when some english nightclub goes on to form a top selling dance mix brand, just by picking good tunes. This is the way it is done.

    Not by making your software even more anti-usable. FFS.

  • ..and then they wonder why people pirate.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by takochan ( 470955 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @07:00AM (#14373677)
    In other words, people who have bought legitimate DVDs now cannot play them (BTW, buying DVDs from a different region is still legimate and not illegal, even if the DVD marketeers don't really like it).

    So now I guess everyone in the 'wrong region' will then have to get their movies from bittorrent instead.. yet another instance where big media and big software companies push their legimate customers to "piracy". That's brilliant...

    1)shut out legitimate DVD purchases
    2)push them to bitorrent
    3)????
    4)more profit?!?

    Gotta wonder about some of these companies...

    • Re:..and then they wonder why people pirate.. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Max von H. ( 19283 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @08:03AM (#14373808)
      BTW, buying DVDs from a different region is still legimate and not illegal, even if the DVD marketeers don't really like it.

      Good point. I live in a country (Switzerland) where the MPAA has little to no influence and in which I regularly rent zone 1, 2 or 5 DVD at the local videoclub and have been doing so for the past 4 or 5 years and my DVD player (panasonic) was zone-free when I bought it (like all DVD players sold here).

      DVD region coding is probably the stupidest ploy against consumers, especially at a time in which people can and do travel extensively around the world. Heck, you travel with your laptop and can't play a DVD you've rented once on the other side of the big pond? WTF? What's next, not being able to play media files if you're more than half a mile from home?

      All these measures only lead to what's now uncorrectly called "piracy", because we want to be able to do whatever pleases us with the hardware and software WE PAID FOR, not just what we're allowed by some paranoid Hollywood coke-head lawyers. No matter what's said in their illegal EULAs (well, they're not legal here), once I've bought something it's my absolute right to do whatever I want with it as long as it remains a private matter, period.

      Btw, downloading or copying stuff isn't piracy, it's not like we're robbing anyone, physically stealing property. The media industry hates us because of their so-called "loss of REVENUE", which IMHO may set a dangerous precedent. I mean, if they get their way, what's to stop them from litigating with anyone who simply doesn't buy their stuff?

      "Hey, your shopping decisions harm our business! Stop buying from the competition right away, or else!"

      • Re:..and then they wonder why people pirate.. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by rolfwind ( 528248 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @10:03AM (#14374038)
        Btw, downloading or copying stuff isn't piracy, it's not like we're robbing anyone, physically stealing property. The media industry hates us because of their so-called "loss of REVENUE", which IMHO may set a dangerous precedent. I mean, if they get their way, what's to stop them from litigating with anyone who simply doesn't buy their stuff?


        You are right. It's not outright theft, but it's copyright infringement. Making it sound like a-okay for all sides is not particularly good (or sympathetic for our side) in economies where what a reasonable portion of the population do for a living is producing the intangible - movies, cds, writing software, research......

        A copyright is selfexplanatory in its name, because theoretically gives the owner sole the sole right to copy (and distribute). This is given by society so that, in theory, works would be shared. Of course, in exchange for this (society's) protection and recognizing that much of who we are is influenced by previous public domain (Disney - see Grimm Brothers) works, copyrights were to expire in a somewhat timely manner (that part got totally perverted) and those works go into public domain.

        In America, at least, I would surmise you would be infringing under that right when you make a copy (downloaded or not - like borrowed from a friend) on your harddrive of something you don't legitimately have. Legitimate back-ups should be covered under Fair-Use (downloading songs from CDs you own would be legal too, thought the distributor is in a gray area......)

        In any case, it's not that I agree with Mega-corps - they perverted the system far too much in their own greed so that much of their current woe I view as justified payback.

        But then, I don't really sympathize with the downloaders - it's a type of complete selfishness in it's own way and the mega-corps only really lose if people lose interest in their wares completely and move onto other avenues of entertainment (perhaps going to a local band's concert). Even if their stuff is downloaded for free, the big corps gain (retain) the image of being the only game in town for musicians and other entertainers - ie mindshare. OTOH, if their wares were to become ignored, they would shrivel up and die....

  • Message to MS + studios: it's our hardware (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Morgaine ( 4316 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @07:02AM (#14373682)
    Message to Microsoft, and to the content providers:

    1) Our PC hardware is our private property, fully bought and paid for by us. Our PCs are not just a rented delivery platform which can rightly be controlled by you.

    2) The operating system that we run on our PC hardware has the purpose of making our hardware do whatever *WE* want *OUR* hardware to do, and not merely what *YOU* would like *OUR* hardware to do.

    If you want a fully controlled delivery platform doing whatever you desire and no more, then set up a subsidized leasing business and we'll rent the content delivery platform from you, at a cost far below the cost of private PC purchase.

    In the meantime, our hardware is ours to do with as we please.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @07:12AM (#14373700)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Fine (Score:4, Insightful)

    by LividBlivet ( 898817 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @07:13AM (#14373704)
    "well, no more DVD movies for you!" Ha. Well MS, no more money for you! Really, what incentive is there to *achem* upgrade to Vista anyway? 95/98 over W3.1 I get (pain in the ass as it was) ME over 98 ? no fsking way NT over 98 ? not for home use tnx 2k over 98 I get (glad I did) XP over 2k ? I can live without the eye candy Vista over 2k ? take your Trusted Computing and DRM and put it where the sun don't shine thank you very much. Until 64bit apps are the norm and force me to upgrade (like 32/16 with w2k) I can't see buying into this endless upgrade cycle.

    • Re:Fine (Score:4, Informative)

      by LilGuy ( 150110 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @04:10PM (#14375377)
      Indeed. A buddy of mine from work said he installed the beta version of Vista at home. When he fired it up for the first time, he let it load completely and then checked his system resources. With the system completely idle, 620 megs of ram were being used. Don't ask me how it's even possible for an OS to tie up that amount of ram while doing NOTHING, I couldn't tell you. He said the only real changes he saw with this build was the huge resource hogging, the "eye candy", and things are all (dis)organized differently.

      No thanks M$. I pass.

  • A solution! (Score:5, Funny)

    by zardie ( 111478 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @07:14AM (#14373709) Homepage
    1. Using DeCSS technology, copy your region encoded DVD to your PC's hard drive.
    2. Watch movie
    3. ...
    4. Profit! (but remember, this violates fair use policies if you do profit from this).

    • Re:A solution! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by metricmusic ( 766303 )
      Or use software like AnyDVD to remove region restrictions on-the-fly.

      But we shouldn't be needing to do this. If we happen to own a dvd rom thats region free why shouldn't we be able to play dvd movies on it without jumping through hoops?

  • This topic isn't important (Score:4, Insightful)

    by putko ( 753330 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @07:17AM (#14373715) Homepage Journal
    If you read the article, you'll see that any DVD hardware you'd likely use would have the region-coding in it. Or you get a de-regionalized one from Sony.

    This just doesn't look important for the vast majority of Slashdot readers.

    • It also doesn't allow RPC2 drives using RPC1, which is an evasive way of saying "drives with hacked region-free firmware."

      Take it from me, a very large percentage of the popular drives have this firmware available, and a significant number of users use it. By locking them out, they've just pissed off the end user, and if the end user is a Joe Durr who doesn't know what RPC1 or RPC2 are, they'll start bitching at their nerdy associate for their drive being broken...and, more than likely, just shove it and bu

  • RPC 1 is an upgrade. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by CaptnMArk ( 9003 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @07:21AM (#14373723)
    I _upgraded_ most my DVD drives to RPC1.

    Having to suffer from region restrictions is not acceptable (locally both region 1 and region 2 dvds were easily available and I also order stuff from both amazon.com and amazon.co.uk.

    Of course, I usually play DVDs under linux, so this is not really a problem :)

  • Price Gouging - DRM (Score:5, Insightful)

    by evanism ( 600676 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @07:24AM (#14373728) Journal
    When will our governments, and consumers, realise that regionalisation is nothing more than a mechanism of creating continental price disparity and deliberate market manipulation? It has nothing to do with "costs" but maximising profits by restricting parallel imports. It does nothing for quality, or support....

    Consumers should respond by simply not buying anything which is deliberately designed to support a cartel. They are only ripping themselves off (The Matrix: US $9.95... Aust $19.48)

    Combined with DRM, how many months will we wait after the release of a fully DRM'ed Vista with hardware support before a company threatens its users with an OFF switch unless they pay their $2 per month DVD hardware "licencing" fee, or your CPU/RAM/HDD monthly "licencing" fee?

    Refuse to pay? OFF.

  • what's the point ? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by drownie ( 901913 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @07:25AM (#14373730)
    Every true pirate will just download the movie and keep it on his harddrive ... and how is this going to help against copied dvds with the correct region code ?

  • Congratulations (Score:5, Funny)

    by yobbo ( 324595 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @07:27AM (#14373732)
    I'd just like to congratulate anybody who has gotten over 5 years out of a DVD drive.

    • Re:Congratulations (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Alioth ( 221270 )
      Thanks! I bought my DVD-ROM drive that's mounted in my current PC back in 1999. It has even survived a murder attempt by an exploding power supply (which killed the CD-RW drive, mobo, CPU and graphics card) in the old PC. Plays DVD movies fine.

  • Because people REALLY want to know... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NZheretic ( 23872 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @07:31AM (#14373741) Homepage Journal
    Asking Intel [linuxjournal.com] Because people REALLY want to know... [linuxjournal.com]

    llegal drugs are at least a big of a problem as copyright violation in the world today. In fact many of the artists promoted by Hollywood and the American recording industry include many positive drug related references in their scripts and lyrics. So the question is : Would you endorse forced illicit drug testing for all artists, actors and executives involved in content production?

    Over 11,000 people die in America each year at the hands of gun violence. The USA has the highest murder rate in the developed world. So the question is : Would you endorse taking away the legal capability of all Americans to bare arms?

    In the USA there are over 12,000 speeding-related traffic deaths per year. The technological capability exists to install a "governor" in every new automobile which would deny the driver the ability to exceed the speed limit. So the question is : Would you endorse restricting access to roads and highways to only vehicles that have such a speed restriction system installed?

    ( If the questioned person says yes to any of the above then pass the quote along to the Hollywood/recording/NRA/automobile media, bloggers and lobby groups etc)

    Spam advertising and spyware has become a major problem for computer users. The DRM capability that Intel is offering to content providers would also be available to those wanting to abuse those same user restrictions. Intel is effectively offering the ability to hide malicious content [blogspot.com] or deny access to content needed to gather evidence for the basis of a complaint [spamlegalaction.co.uk]. So the question becomes: Why are you offering up this ability to content providers when it denies the owners of the computer the ability to protect themselves?

    Whether it is a war on drugs, gun, or road crime restrictive and technological solutions that lock the end users out of the ability to make personal decisions perform actions are effectively a fundamental violation of a person's civil rights, even if taking that action could violate the law of the land.

    Even though illicit drug consumption is against the law, wholesale drug testing would be seen as a violation of a persons right to privacy. In fact most American courts would not accept evidence gathered though such an action.

    Even though gun related crime is a major problem, taking away the right for any citizens to bare arms would leave them at risk from criminals who would ignore the law as a matter of course.

    Even though speeding is a major problem, there are cases it is needed for safety. Overtaking vehicles may require the driver to exceed the speed limit to safely avoid oncoming traffic. Also there are rare cases, such as transporting someone requiring urgent medical treatment, where the even the courts have found that exceeding the speed limit was preferable to the affected person's demise.

    While making a copy of copyrighted content may seem trivial in comparison to the examples in the above three paragraphs, remember that Intel along with Adobe and Microsoft is talking of offering this same DRM technology for business, legal and even governmental documents. The ability to blow the whistle on suspect dealings, and pass copies along to the press and even authorities, may be severely restricted in the future.

    So the final question to everybody has become: Why should the consumers and citizens have to put up with DRM restrictions on their general purpose computers that they own?

    • Even though gun related crime is a major problem, taking away the right for any citizens to bare arms would leave them at risk from criminals who would ignore the law as a matter of course.

      Do you really feel safe carrying a gun around? What happens if you do get robbed? Would you give the criminal what they want to avoid bloodshed, or would you pull your gun out and either shoot them or end up being shot yourself?

      If you don't get robbed, do you really want the temptation to be there to act on a whim and

      • I have relatives who live out in the country who can expect at minimum of at least an hour response time from the police. In the same area there have been at least two cases of home invasion by burglars, with one elderly couple being brutally beaten to the point where the husband died soon afterwards. The local police quietly recomended that people in the area should expect to defend themselves.

        The ratio of gun ownership in New Zealand, Australia, Canada and the USA is roughly the same, but only the USA su [bowlingforcolumbine.com]

  • I wonder... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by SharpFang ( 651121 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @08:38AM (#14373871) Homepage Journal
    ...will it be purposedly hard-blocked or will it be just "unsupported" so that by installing 3rd party drivers you get your old DVD support back?
    Vista may of course not support lots of obsolete hardware and there's nothing wrong with that. It's ancient, hardly anybody uses it anymore, developing drivers costs money and time, so cutting back on these costs is understandable. If someone wants to have their ISA gfx card or some obscure SCSI scanner supported, they'd have to write the driver themselves or pay someone to write them to work, cool. But if some hardware is blacklisted as in "This kind of hardware may be used for illegal purposes, we won't allow you to use it", it's a different matter.

    Anyway, I strongly believe that in both cases the hacker community will be more efficient that Microsoft.

  • Different version for Australia? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by marcushnk ( 90744 ) <senectus AT gmail DOT com> on Sunday January 01, 2006 @08:40AM (#14373877) Journal
    Isn't regional code locked devices illegal in Australia..? Does this mean that they'll have to sell a modified version here?
    • vista isn't enforcing region codes, in fact that is exactly what this decision does, supporting RPC1 would mean vista does enforce region codes, RPC2 leaves region codes up to the drive to enforce or not enforce

  • Will VLC work? Because it works everywhere else (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Nice2Cats ( 557310 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @08:53AM (#14373905)
    Does anybody know if this will have any impact on how VLC [videolan.org] works? On the Mac, for example, the basically useless DVDPlayer program has the regional code thingy, but VLC just bypasses all of that.

    That aside, this is just more good news for Apple. If this bugs you, get a Mac. The new ones with Intel will be able to dual boot Windows, Apple has said, so your usual excuse about not being able to play games doesn't work anymore. Use OS X for work and switch over to Windows for the games, all on hardware that doesn't look like crap. Watch DVDs with any operating system, as long as you use VLC.

  • No problem... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Jugalator ( 259273 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @09:26AM (#14373964) Journal
    Most people should be unaffected by this, as only in Soviet Japan do old DVD-ROMs need people...

  • Two DVD drives on PC (Score:5, Interesting)

    by COredneck ( 598733 ) * on Sunday January 01, 2006 @10:23AM (#14374078)
    One of my machines runs Win XP with a DVD burner. I recently started to pick up import Japanese Anime which are set to Region 2. When I got my first import, I put the DVD in and ran DVD Shrink. It insisted on changing the RPC-2 H/W Region Code. Of course, there are a max of 5 changes before the it is permanent. I ended up going out to pick up another DVD drive which is specific for Region 2 DVD's. What a pain !

    I would like to meet the a-hole, probably a marketing executive, who thought of this Region coding BS.

    On DVD Shrink, it is used for my own purpose of making dups of the DVD's i buy. The originals are kept at home and I play off the copies. I am about done with vacation and I recently bought some new Anime. I made copies and took the copies with me to watch when I have time. The originals are at home safe.

  • No more DVD movies for me? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @10:31AM (#14374107) Homepage Journal
    No, its no more windows for me. Well, not that im runing windows anymore, but you get my point. Why does the default answer to all this DRM 'just roll over and accept it'?

    And if the day comes i cant watch what i bought on what i want too, *that* is the day of 'no more dvd movies'. Not that my 'media budget' will bankrupt anyone, but i refuse to participate.

  • Don't forget (Score:3, Interesting)

    by code65536 ( 302481 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @10:38AM (#14374121) Homepage Journal
    Um, guys, don't forget that there is already a level of region protection built into Windows itself. If anyone here has actually used a RPC1 firmware, you will know that to fully disable region protection, you will need not only a firmware "upgrade", but also some sort of software that hooks into Windows and disables the the region protection on the OS side of things.

    So it just means that to get real region freedom, the software will need to do more.

    And as mentioned earlier, region protection works simply by getting the drive to refuse to give you the CSS decryption key in the key exchange. Movies that are not CSS-encrypted won't be affected. And software that brute-forces the CSS key won't be affected either.

  • What are the odds... (Score:3, Informative)

    by geoff lane ( 93738 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @10:54AM (#14374159)
    ...of Vista ever shipping?

    New monitors needed, now new DVDs, more memory, more disk space. The costs of upgrading are getting out of hand. OK, over a 3 to 5 year interval, hardware replacement may result in a significant change, but on day one who is going to upgrade?

    So, Vista may not be the financial bump that MS will need. You have to wonder if it is time to abandon development until the necessary hardware is already in the field.

  • Big deal... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Megane ( 129182 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @11:30AM (#14374268)
    Ignoring for a moment that I don't plan to ever run Vista, I don't normally use computers to play DVDs anyhow. I get an out-of-region disc every now and then, and it's easier for me to just rip it on an RPC-1 drive (the ripper I use strips region coding and Macrovision flags as it rips), re-burn it to a DVD-R, and stick it back in the snap case, than it is for me to remember what magic buttons I need to press on my remote to set my DVL-909 to another region, and then set it back again, every time I want to play the original disc.

    All RPC-2 does is prevent the drive from passing through the decryption information from out-of-region discs. So having an RPC-1 drive means 1) faster ripping of out-of-region discs, and 2) the ability to easily play out-of-region discs. I was wondering what the hell Microsoft might be thiking, so I RTFA'd and found out that there were apparently just too many technical problems for them. Hey, they can't even keep their OS secure, so I'm not too surprised. Awwwwww, poor Microsoft.

    I suspect all this will do is cause the firmware hackers to start making region-free firmware that speaks RPC-2. I mean, after all, they're already patching RPC-2 firmware.

  • Switch to Linux (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ravee ( 201020 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @11:32AM (#14374274) Homepage Journal
    I still remember the time when my neighbourhood groccer stopped stocking my favourate cereals. I switched to shopping for what I want from the supermarket. Even though it was a bit further from my home and needed a drive by car, I still got what I wanted and was happy in the process. On a similar note,

    If Vista don't allow playing of encoded DVDs on old DVD drives, then it is the right time to give Linux a try. It will allow you to play encrypted DVDs and more. And the good thing is Linux is not at all fussy at all and is very user friendly.

  • Who is going to notice? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Sloppy ( 14984 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @11:53AM (#14374337) Homepage Journal
    People who run Windows == People who bought a new computer with Windows preloaded.

    Hardly anybody installs Windows. Yeah, I'm sure there are Slashdotters out there who are exceptions. "I have a kickass machine but sometimes I need to need to test my software under Windows, yadda yadda." But that's what you are: exceptions. "Normal" people who run Windows, run it on the hardware that it came with. They also call the "e" icon on their desktop "the internet" and they call their Dell PocketPC their "palm pilot." Yes, really.

    • I object to this comment. There are computer-illiterates, users, power users, and "slashdot"-level users, and of those four categories, there *is* a population of people who are either users or power users that can re-install Windows despite not knowing what the hell they're doing otherwise.

      You forget that the average person gets loads of spyware. Granted, they could just install anti-spyware software, but many just re-install Windows. BECAUSE THEY CAN. Don't be elitist prick.

  • Vista ships on New Machines (Score:3, Insightful)

    by kabz ( 770151 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @04:04PM (#14375359) Homepage Journal
    This is really pretty much a non-story as the whole point of new launches like this is to drive new hardware sales. My local experience is that PCs are largely disposable. Kinda expensive sure, but I've seen quite a few perfectly good PCs get tossed simply because they wouldn't work properly due to spyware, crappy hardware, dodgy network card.

    Very very few copies of Vista will be installed on any machine older than a couple of years. What's the point? If an upgrade copy costs $200, only another $200-$400 will get a base Dell that will already have Vista Home installed and sorted out on it.

    Slashdot users may do a new install, but let's face it, pre-installed on new hardware is really the only thing that most users can really cope with.

  • When will Linux get its ass in gear? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Jackie_Chan_Fan ( 730745 ) on Sunday January 01, 2006 @04:38PM (#14375485)
    Linux is a mess. A great OS to be sure, but a mess. Linux needs to get the word out. There needs to be a marketed movement on TV, print, internet, radio by a serious linux player that can once and for all, start infecting the minds of the average user. Windows is all people know. MS is being hurt by Apple thanks to the IPOD success and Window's horrible security holes and spyware. When will Linux get its ass in gear and start saying to the world: "Check out our awesome UI, our easy and most advanced home media organizational tools for and audio and video" "Check out our superior software that increases the performance of your existing hardware over Microsoft Windows XP and increases security 100x" "No longer will you have to deal with spyware, adware, or blue screens of death" "It's time to try a better operating system... Linux. We've been waiting for you" "With Linux you have superior networking and internet connectivity at high performance speeds, using the technology that drives 90% of the internet" "Microsoft Windows dictates to you, how you will use your computer... LINUX is a USER based operating system that evovles constantly around the needs of you the user... Not only does Linux adapt to new trends in technology faster, it's also pioneered those trends." "Dump Windows today, and enjoy freedom from the system" "Linux, It's what computers are made for" Essentially, Linux has no marketing and thats because Linux is not one man. It's not one company, It's not one anything. That's its biggest fucking problem when it comes to destroying windows. Until there is a solid unified movement, marketed on tv during superbowls that direct its marketing towards the end user... Linux will lack applications, It will LACK the average users.... and windows will dominate It. I dream for the day whe linux gets is ass in gear and can play with the big boy (MS). But it cant. It has no marketing. You see, we all sit here and bitch about how Microsoft does this and that, and how they use PR to LIE to the user base. But you know what.. Thats the fucking game.. and Linux is not playing it. Linux doesnt have to necceserially lie, but it needs to get out there in a unified force that SLAMS the shit out of windows on national TV. You want more users? YOU WANT PHOTOSHOP? Sony Vegas? 3dsmax? XSI and Maya (yes they're on linux but they're worthless without many other apps that are windows only currently). You want professional audio and video apps? You want to dominate the Office software market? You want to get APPS? You've gotta start playing hardball. These corperations arent developing software for a market that does not exist. Yes linux gets some apps commercially, but many are free open source projects (AND i sure hope that continues... but we need The Adobes of the world) Until then... Hello Vista!... you steaming pile of shit. And thats the way it will be... because no one has the balls to go after the users. So keep bickering about Suse, Mandrake, Redhat, etc etc etc... It's all worthless to the average user. Make it easy to use, and attractive to REAL people. Not just the IT dungeon creatures. You've gotta sell the world on the idea that linux is cool, pretty, advanced, user friendly etc. Apple did themselves a favor with the "Think Different" slogan. Linux could learn a thing or two from apple (I know ironic) Anyways this rant is too long and its falling on deaf ears anyways. Linux will never succeed at winning microsoft's market share. Linux doesnt play the game. You can sell it to buisnesses which is great.... But the second you can convince every highschool kid into thinking running linux is "cool" and running windows is "gay", you might actually hurt Billy Goat Gates. Take a lesson from APPLE and the IPOD. It is possible to shift an entire market into your corner through great marketing and a great product! Marketing and image is key, and the time is ripe. MS is hurting. Vista looks like crippleware and people are sick and tired of windows crashing and becoming infected with all kinds of horrible stuff. Mak

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