Microsoft to Require 64-bit Processors 377
Nom du Keyboard writes "According to News.com Microsoft has said they will require 64-bit instruction set processors (AMD64/EMT64) for all future processor releases. These include Exchange 12, Longhorn Server R2 and Small-Business Edition Longhorn Server among others. I guess we have to bite this bullet sometime."
Is this bad or good? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:2)
No really
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not really either. Technology progresses, new Windows requires latest processors... it's scarcely news at all.
What is interesting, though, is that there are still a lot of 32-bit processors around which are perfectly viable. Microsoft didn't absolutely require a 32-bit CPU until Windows '95; previous releases could always run in Standard or Real mode if you didn't happen to have the hardware to use 386 Enhanced. When that release came out in late 1995, hardly a
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:5, Informative)
well, in the original article [com.com] that the article links to it says:
"Separately, Microsoft also announced that the Compute Cluster Server and several other upcoming server software releases will work only with 64-bit processors."
They're talking specifically about server software, not really desktop.
In the article the post links to it says:
"company executives detailed its plans to add support 64-bit microprocessors in its server applications and operating systems."
so they're supporting 64 bit in their OS, but not requiring it... least none of the stories said they're requiring it.
I agree, I think it's a mistake to require 64 bit support in desktop OS's in the near future, I mean there's 5 year old processors that run the latest XP just fine so to say 5 yrs from now that most processors made today wont run Windows 2010 (twenty-ten ;) seems to be a pretty serious statement.
Are they trying to kill Intel sales?
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:2, Flamebait)
Last I checked it was almost as laughable as the dual core Xeon.
Naturally things change so my info could be out of date. Basically as I recall it was so slow it was like running 32bit code an the original Itanium. I recently upgraded one my Opteron web servers to the 64bit version and I'll tell you, there is a dramatic increase in system throughput which is good since there will be a giant traffic spike coming up when we're on TV Dec. 1st.Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:2, Informative)
Most Pentiums IVs can support 64 bit processes.
from Intel's website Scalability and performance with Intel® EM64T Intel® Extended Memory 64 Technology (Intel® EM64T) can improve performance by allowing the system to address more than 4 GB of both virtual and physical memory. Intel EM64T also provides support for 64 bit computing to hel
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:2)
On the other hand, new servers sold today are pretty much exclusively AMD64; both Intel and AMD have deployed AMD64 accross their entire desktop and server product lines, IIRC. So for the new servers that will be using this new software, it's not a big deal.
Of course, does it make sense to re
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:2)
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyhow. What I'm getting at is the industry has been somewhat sluggish to adopt new tech under pressure to keep costs down. The 64-bit processors have been around for a while, but many computers don't have them, and the only reason why is that it's not cost-effective for the industry giants to switch over. As for performance...well, you won't see much difference with a 64-bit processor, but that's not because they aren't better - that's because people haven't been writing new code for them due to slow adoption rates. Vicious circle and all that.
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:2)
Good for Microsoft,bad for WINE (Score:4, Interesting)
How ironic that just as we reach the point where there is a good chance of a Win32 binary running on WINE, the big move to Win64 applications begins in earnest.
No, I don't believe this is a prime or even a significant motivating factor.. it's just the way things are.
Re:Good for Microsoft,bad for WINE (Score:2)
Re:Good for Microsoft,bad for WINE (Score:2)
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:2)
One such example is the flash plugin, there is no 64bit flash therefore you need a 32bit browser and 32bit copies of all the libs the browser uses, not to mention having to use 32bit versions of every other plugin (like java for instance) even tho 64bit versions are availa
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:2)
It would still be a problem for any software which is no longer maintained (company went bust etc, 10 year old program) which people still want to use. But as you said it'll still be possible to run these, it'll jus
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:4, Insightful)
It sounds like you resent that the industry isn't progressing to faster and bigger hardware, and focusing on bringing cost down. I'm actually happy with this; I'm doing the same things I was doing years ago (and I'm sure the same is true for many others), so why should I need a bigger and faster system for them? If Pentium (classic) or ever 486 systems were available at a price that reflected the performance difference with current P4s and Athlon64s, I'd buy those in a heartbeat.
As it is, I can't get a real cost advantage by buying slower hardware, but I can get lower power usage. Since I believe lower energy usage is the only realistic way to reduce pollution in the short term, I've done so; my main machine is a VIA EPIA (underclocked to 266 MHz), and I have a 800 MHz iBook G4 (downclocked to 600 MHz). Both of these perform the tasks I use them for just fine. Both of them have 256 MB RAM, but I could make do with half if I took the trouble to get smaller modules (which I won't).
I have no need for a machine that will execute more idle cycles per second, nor do I have a need for software that requires such a machine.
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:5, Funny)
Typical improvements will be:
1) Spell and grammar checking - with a 64-bit processor, the WP app will be able to offer up to (2^64)-2 suggestions for a mis-spelled word rather than just a handful.
2) More underline styles
3) Ability to type faster without the system locking up.
4) Documents finish printing before you've typed them
5) AI components know what you are thinking and will auto-finish sentences for you MICROSOFT SUCKS.
6) Systems will be able to do more things at once - imagine being able to check email while typing at 2000 wpm AND be composing replies to messages you haven't even received yet while printing tomorrow's news.
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:2)
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:2)
Nawwwww
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:2)
Re:Is this bad or good? (Score:2)
So is this bad news or good news, or??
Personally, here's the bad news: when this happens, the IT dept at the college I work for are going to demand a larger budget for the 64 bit hardware that will be required, and their selling point will be that this is an absolutely necessary upgrade. Realistically, it won't provide the college with any new capabilities and it will increase associated costs (diversion of resources from daily operations to preparing for the new installs, troubleshooting them, etc). Th
not completely accurate. (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.redmondmag.com/news/article.asp?Editor
Let me know when 16-bit code is dead, let alone... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Let me know when 16-bit code is dead, let alone (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Let me know when 16-bit code is dead, let alone (Score:2)
Correct. (Score:3, Interesting)
Something's not right (Score:2, Interesting)
Anyone have anything debunking this?
Re:Something's not right (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Something's not right (Score:5, Informative)
That's not how I read it. Microsoft is going to require 64 bit processors for its new software. That's about equivalent to them requiring a 32-bit processor for Windows 95, and thereby excluding everyone on a 286. No reason why these systems shouldn't run legacy 32-bit apps - and maybe even 16-bit apps - but they're going to need a 64-bit processor.
Re:Something's not right (Score:3, Informative)
That's about equivalent to them requiring a 32-bit processor for Windows 95 and thereby excluding everyone on a 286.
Actually, 80286 support was dropped in Windows 3.1 (AKA Windows For Workgroups). WFW could only run 16 bit code [1], but it needed the virtual memory features of a 80386.
[1] Except if you installed "win32s", a subset of the Win32 API.
Re:Something's not right (Score:2)
Actually, Windows for Workgroups was Windows 3.11 (clever aside about the intentional "bug" in calc.exe where entering "3.11 - 3.1" gave the answer "0"). Windows 3.1 was just non-network-ready "Windows". Brilliant marketing idea, actually.
Pretty much *everybody* installed win32s, because freecell came with it...always winnable my ass.
Re:Something's not right (Score:2)
I remember that kludge that was Win32s. It saved me buying Win95 for about 18 months, but it finally got to the point where all the cool stuff required '95. I finally jumped into that mess in mid '97 and six months later I went to Linux full time.
Ahhh, Free Cell. I could beat it with some regularity. I found a card game (maybe from MS back in the day?) called Cruel. It lived up to its name...
Re:Something's not right (Score:5, Informative)
I'm assuming you are talking about 32bit? If you are then... Longhorn Server R2 doesn't come out until 2009, the 2007 version will come out with a 32bit counterpart Their 64 bit platform run 32 bit code without degrading performance.
The only thing that has to be re-written is 32-bit drivers. They are only breaking "driver" compatibility for legacy hardware. However hardware makers have started (last summer) to write the 64 bit drivers for their hardware, so I wouldn't worry to much about that.
Is that enough info to debunk?
Re:Something's not right (Score:2)
I'm worried, or would be if I used windows. Big names will probably write them, but will random taiwanese (e.g.) USB network adapters work with the new windows?
Re:Something's not right (Score:2)
You mean, better than they run code now, degrading performance over weeks and months as the registry tries to commit suicide?
I keed, I keed!
Re:Something's not right (Score:2)
It was news to Eileen Brown [technet.com] and the Exchange team who have been busily building and testing Exchange on 32 / 64 bits.
I'm not sure why Microsoft announced this - but I'm quite sure that they're going to be building and testing 32 and 64 bit versions of all their major products right until far closer to release date, then they will decide what to release based on what their customers are asking for.
Offtopic: Can anyone think of a good update to this:
Re:Something's not right (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Something's not right (Score:2)
Windows is a 64-bit patch to a 32-bit blah blah blah...
Re:Something's not right (Score:2)
Re:Something's not right (Score:2)
You mean "no more running server from that old P4 2.8GHz lying around."
Good, and bad. (Score:3, Insightful)
Off course people could simply return the software that don't work and the adoption rate will be slower then before...
That Does IT !! (Score:5, Funny)
You know what that means, don't you? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:You know what that means, don't you? (Score:3, Informative)
This could be a big deal in applications like video processing and encryption. I believe that a 64-bit data path speeds up encryption operations big time, and this is the sort of thing that you tend to do with web servers.
Typo? (Score:2, Informative)
Good for gamers, bad for companies (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Good for gamers, bad for companies (Score:3, Insightful)
Just what I thought. It's enough hassle to update a company full of PCs for a next Windows version. Next they will have to junk all their desktop hardware and not just update the Windows line, but also buy a sh*t load of new hardware. Hardware wendors will _love_ Microsoft for this move. I guess Dell will owe them one.
Chief Big Heap has spoken (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Chief Big Heap has spoken (Score:2)
Re:Chief Big Heap has spoken (Score:2)
Mailbox size?!? (Score:5, Funny)
From the article: "IT professionals will be able to consolidate the total number of servers running 64-bit (processors) and users will be able to have bigger mailbox size."
How big are these mailboxes that you need 64-bit processing space??? *boggle*
Re:Mailbox size?!? (Score:2, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Mailbox size?!? (Score:2)
Re:Mailbox size?!? (Score:2)
Re:Mailbox size?!? (Score:2)
Re:Mailbox size?!? (Score:3, Informative)
Typically on a traditional 32-bit OS files within a filesystem were limited to 2GB in size. Some people have easily more than 2GB of mail, and if your mail system stores all of a user's mail within a single "mailbox" file, you see the problem.
OTOH, it's not really smart at all for a mail server to have one file per user (or even one file per "mail folder") - methods akin to the unix Maildir standard are far more efficient on modern filesystems that scale well as dentry lists grow.
And OTOOH, most 32-bit OS'
Duke Nukem SixtyForEver (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Duke Nukem SixtyForEver (Score:3, Funny)
oh Bob, (Score:2, Funny)
"IT professionals will be able to consolidate the total number of servers running 64-bit (processors) and users will be able to have bigger mailbox size," he said.
twice bigger, i guess?
Re:oh Bob, (Score:2)
upgrade cycle? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:upgrade cycle? (Score:2)
I guess we have to bite this bullet sometime. (Score:3, Insightful)
That should be we as in "we MS windows users" that have to bite this bullet thank you very much.
We as in "we people with high memory requirements" will need 64 bits because we actually need them.
Wrong article summary? (Score:5, Informative)
I think "all" should be "some" and "processor releases" should be "software releases"... Here's CNET's take on it:
Microsoft said some upcoming products, including its Exchange 12 e-mail server, will run only on 64-bit processors.
It seems to be mostly a focus on 64-bit server products from now on to me, and far from a total switch to 64-bit.
A Good Thing, Maybe (Score:2)
Isn't it a bit early to require 64-bit? (Score:2, Troll)
Seriously? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Seriously? (Score:3, Insightful)
I think its simply because no one used other processors to run Windows (Back when NT3/NT4 supported MIPS, Alpha, PPC..). The Alpha seemed (at the time) to be the second most-used platform for NT as it did have performance advantage over IA32, but ultimately, not enough software was released native for Alpha to make it a truly usable platform.
Fast forward to today and I don't really see a strong argument for releasing on multiple architectures. x86-64 provides
Updates for this quote (Score:5, Funny)
Windows 9x: noun. A collection of 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor. Written by a 2-bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition.
--- Anonymous
Re:Updates for this quote (Score:5, Funny)
Easy enough, or could it be better?
Re:Updates for this quote (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Updates for this quote (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Updates for this quote (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe "rewrite" would be more accurate? If Microsoft could get a 64-bit version of Windows just by recompiling, they would never have bothered with 32-bit Windows NT on Alpha.
ReactOS an alternative for Companies? (Score:4, Interesting)
Just like Wine does on Linux, but with the advantage that there is no Linux underneath it. It is a fully working OS on it's own.
One of the initial motivations for this project was to brake this MS enforced cycle, and so far they made good progress. They are already capable of running some serious stuff like Unreal Tournament (Serious in terms of implementation not neccessarily for companies
Like we didn't see this coming (Score:2, Interesting)
Let's fgace facts, Longwait and Office 2**n have nothing compelling enough to warant upgrading. But this move ensures that you will not be able to find any 64 bit machines that don't have them on it (Even if you don't want them at all)
Plain and simple... It's their attempt at replicating Windows 95 all over again.
Re:Like we didn't see this coming (Score:2)
64-bit processors ought to be enough for anybody (Score:2)
Re:64-bit processors ought to be enough for anybod (Score:2)
how the fuck did the parent GET A +5 SCORE!!!
We'll still be using 32-bit cores well into the next decade, well into the one after that.
Tom
MS servers were 64bit back in 90's (Score:2, Informative)
Subject totally misrepresented in comments (Score:4, Informative)
It is all about the RAM... (Score:3, Interesting)
With Win2k3-x86 and WinXP-64, most of the hoops (and startup switches) you use just go away. It just works. Same applied to Linux - moving to an A64 build just worked.
For server operations, more RAM is good. This is not as evil as it sounds.
Biting the bullet (Score:2)
Closed Source (Score:3, Funny)
Oh well, one more advantage of open source promoted from theoretical to real status. And yet another instance of Microsoft pushing the hardware upgrade threadmill. Keep running, hamsters! Run or you'll fall down! Not that anyone should be surprised by that, though.
Re:Good move? (Score:4, Funny)
--
silas
hobbit
Re:Good move? (Score:2, Funny)
Yes, they will.
Re:Good move? (Score:2, Interesting)
In my IT department the thinking might go something like this:
Windows requires us to replace that moderately priced server we bought last year. Well, if are going to have to replace it, lets try running Linux on it and see if we can provide our services that way.
However, our guys tend to be more open minded than most corporate IT folks.
Re:Good move? (Score:2)
Re:Digg.com did it again (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Digg.com did it again (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Digg.com did it again (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Digg.com did it again (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:duh (Score:2, Informative)
Re:duh (Score:2)
Re:All future "processor releases"? (Score:4, Informative)
Uh ya, right, GPU is an ATI design and CPU is a 3-core PowerPC by IBM.
Both were created in cooperation with Microsoft and are fully custom made (the Xenon CPU took 2 years), but they're still not "MS processors".
Re:Room to Make Demands (Score:2, Interesting)
My prediction is that if TCPA/DRM/new Office 12 file formats fail to have market penetration, MSFT will take a HUGE hit in the next five years and lose th
And it's EM64T, NOT EMT64 (Score:2)