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Handhelds The Internet Hardware

Just In Case 3G Isn't Speedy Enough 140

Posted by Hemos from the faster-and-faster-it-goes dept.
Roland Piquepaille writes "Will we soon be able to download music or videos on our cell phones? Yes, with the arrival of the next 3.5G technology, as reports Jennifer L. Schenker in this International Herald Tribune article. "NTT DoCoMo Inc., the Japanese company that introduced the first third-generation digital mobile phone service in the world, is preparing to pioneer wireless services that are at least 40 times as fast." DoCoMo will use "a technology called HSDPA, for high-speed downlink packet access, also known as 3.5G, [which] is expected to deliver data at as much as 14.4 megabits a second." This new technology will not arrive in Europe before 2006 at least. Check this column for a summary."
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Just In Case 3G Isn't Speedy Enough More

Just In Case 3G Isn't Speedy Enough

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  • 14.4 (Score:5, Funny)

    by FrostedWheat ( 172733 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:09AM (#6039807)
    Yea, so my 14.4 modem isn't useless after all! What's that you say .. megabits? What's that?
    • Funny, but it doesn't seem so long ago that I was using a 300 baud modem (about the same size as a cash register) and thought that was really cool.

      Seriously, though: who is going to bother downloading muzack on to their cell phones? It's not like they have good enough sound reproduction to make it worthwhile.

      • Have you heard the sound on the newer phones? They're actually pretty darn good - at least, compared to older phones. Believe me, the first time you hear a ringtone on one of these newer phones you'd think it's some sort of mini-computer.
      • plug headphones in... there's no reason it should be any worse than a tiny mp3 player

    • Re:14.4 (Score:1)

      by LNN ( 304087 )
      14.4kbps modems are underestimated. They are several times faster than light! Let me tell you how:

      See, I was accidently phrasing that a little program I was making would become faster than light. I started figuring about what speed is that really? And how do I measure it for a program? Naturally, the tricky questions should be answered with a simple answer, for that is the way to explain complex problems and give the evolution a helping hand.

      So, what I started out doing was to find any connections between

  • 14.4? (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Aaaahhhh!!!11 Horrid flashbacks from a decade ago!

    • Hey, keep in mind that even today there are people out there who still get 21.6 kbit/s on their regular dialup connection because they live on a terrible phone loop outside the range of DSL, cable, and don't want stupid one-sided satellite internet that limits the number of connections (i.e. TCP connections) you can have for 2-way servive.

      Actually I am 'fortunate' enough to be able to get a 31.2 kbit/s connection on my crappy phone loop. This 14.4 Mbit business makes me feel sad.

  • All this... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:09AM (#6039809)
    And I still can't make a cell call from home....
    • Home sweet home.. i don't need a cell phone... i never leave this room.. 12 fans for all the fresh air i need.. Enough keyboards to make a comfortable bed and some old pizza boxes for growing "vegetables" in .. the healthy slashdot lifestyle...

  • eh? (Score:3, Funny)

    by RobertTaylor ( 444958 ) <roberttaylor1234.gmail@com> on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:11AM (#6039811) Homepage Journal
    "Will we soon be able to download music or videos on our cell phones?"

    Us Brits (ok I am welsh really!) have been able to do this already. Three [three.co.uk] a mobile company here in the UK has been selling handsets and access for a while that provides music/maps/video downloads and calls.

    "In Europe, we are now using GPRS, or general packet radio service, also known as 2.5G. And we are limited to 30 kilobits a second."

    Note this bloke is from france which is in europe, but a backwater in most things! ;)

    Note that the testbed for the DoComo handsets is in Cambridge...UK.

    All together now... God save our gracious queen....

    • Re:eh? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by BenjyD ( 316700 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:28AM (#6039851)

      Three a mobile company here in the UK has been selling handsets and access for a while that provides music/maps/video downloads and calls.

      And nobody is buying them. The salespeople standing outside the Three shops in London look more desperate everytime I walk past. The introductory special offers have been extended in an attempt to boost flagging sales.

      Mobile phones and SMS meet a basic need for communication, 3G and video phones don't really add anything to this. Look at the desperate advertising campaigns from Three etc trying to convince us that it's cool to be able to see someone while talking. Nobody is advertising 3G as 'useful' or talking about features - it's all image.

      • Re:eh? (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Mobile phones and SMS meet a basic need for communication, 3G and video phones don't really add anything to this.

        Yes! Thank you! I've been saying this even before anybody launched a 3G service. I saw the pre-promo materials from several companies. We even got to listen to a talk from a head-honcho at Vodafone. All of it was crap then, and its still crap now.

        Just look at the 3 adverts currently running on T.V. There are two classes; stupid and smutty. Thats the only angles they have for video mess
        • I got a mobile about 4 years back, and at the time it seemed really useful. Now, I almost never carry it around with me. The times when I am not at home are mainly the times it isn't convenient for people to phone me anyway, so if I do carry it then I just leave it turned off, which seems silly. The only advantage I see in a mobile phone is that it costs a lot, so discourages people from phoning me unless it's important.

          On the other hand I'm probably an atypical /. reader since I don't really like any f

          • On the other hand I'm probably an atypical /. reader since I don't really like any form of communication that isn't face to face.

            Haha, you're not the only one. I finally broke down two years ago and got an el-cheapo Nokia with a Tracfone plan from Wal-Mart. Never carry the thing around. I hate being on call all of the time.
      • Give some sort of a bundle, like free subscription to club strip [football365shop.com]. Nothing will get those 3G phones rolling like the idea of having pr0n (sorta) on the go!
      • The problem is that 3G doesn't offer anything yet. Video messaging is a nice idea, but the point (and popularity) of SMS is short snappy messages like "running late, see you at 2" or "fancy a drink".

        Video messaging is the opposite of that, it's more bother for both parties than even simply calling them. You need to record your message and look like a prat, while sending an SMS is discrete. Then the reciprient has to watch the message, and I'd like to see someone hold a phone in a position that can both se

    • Re:eh? (Score:2)

      by pacc ( 163090 )
      Don't push 3G too much, its too expensive for both the customers and operators but to protect their investments the necessary upgrades from GPRS to EDGE has been stopped, it would have been to competitive to 3G.

      HSDPA is a similar upgrade to 3G as EDGE is to GPRS, when it becomes a reality will probably depend on how successful the networks will be in the future...
    • Wow, I now have "Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance" running though my head...
      ... and I am not even english.

      "Land of hope and glory, mother of the free..."

      And for that matter! Rule Britania, Britania rules the waves, we... I mean they shall never never never never be enslaved!

      That's why you don't get many Australians performing at the Proms!

    • Re:eh? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by pubjames ( 468013 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:54AM (#6039905)
      Note this bloke is from france which is in europe, but a backwater in most things! ;)

      That's right! We in the UK have an increadible insight into France and the rest of Europe, due to the unbiased, honest reporting of our wonderful press. Those Europeans are trying to take away 1,000 years of British sovereignty, because, erm, they're jealous of us. Or something. No, I've got it! They're backwards and so need to reign the UK in with silly straight banana rules to be able to compete with us. After all, the UK has the largest economy in Europe, because we don't have silly European laws. Probably.

      God bless the Queen. And Bush.

      • Re:eh? (Score:1)

        by Ranx ( 28829 )
        If you want to stay on your little island: go ahead.

        And btw, Germany is by far the biggest economy in Europe.
        • If you want to stay on your little island: go ahead.

          And btw, Germany is by far the biggest economy in Europe.

          Hey Bozo, I was being sarcastic. I was writing in the style of a British euro-hater. It's called "humour".
    • It rained today. (I'm in Australia.) The "Three phone" users on either side of my desk lost their reception for half the day. How useful! :)

      I won't switch to 3G myself until I'm forced to - I have been a very happy prepaid mobile user for about five years now and I'd like to keep it that way. The cost of a new handset and contract are just too prohibitive right now.

  • 2006 eh? (Score:5, Funny)

    by RajivSLK ( 398494 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:12AM (#6039815)
    This new technology will not arrive in Europe before 2006 at least.

    Japan now and in europe in 2006 -- early extrapolations of this trend indicate that this technology will splash into the north american market as early as 2032.

    Lets keep our fingers crossed.

    • Re:2006 eh? (Score:5, Funny)

      by pe1rxq ( 141710 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:33AM (#6039864) Homepage Journal
      And a few years later (around 2040 when the rest of the world long forgot this whole thingy) an American company will start the PR machine for something called SUPER-DUPER-CDMA-MADE-IN-USA which will give comparable results (slightly better than a defacto standard from years ago), is incompatible with anything ever made.....
      Then ten years after that George Bush the third will invade some third world countries because they still don't use SUPER-DUPER-CDMA-MADE-IN-USA... eh... no,no make that making weapons of mass destruction and being a saveheaven for some 12-year old cyber-TERORIST who defaced the whitehouse website.

      Jeroen

      • Eh, it will probably be Jenna Bush, she seems to be the one who would most likely be the next Bush in the White House. She will continue in the Bush tradition of invading Iraq a year or two after the innaguration party in which Ashton Kutcher proves he's not an idiot by dancing shirtless on the second stage. She will also claim that her administration invented cellular technology, and then give a contract to rebuild the Iraq cellular infrastructure to a bankrupt company with NO experience in building cellul

      • an American company will start the PR machine for something called SUPER-DUPER-CDMA-MADE-IN-USA which will give comparable results (slightly better than a defacto standard from years ago), is incompatible with anything ever made.....

        As much as I hate evil big corporations, it actually seems that it works the opposite direction.

        How well does your television work in Europe? Tried renting some videotapes yet? How about all your electrical devices? Have fun trying to plug them in, and even more fun why you

        • Voltage different?
          All of europe uses the same (230V used to be 220V)...
          Unless you buy braindead american equipment there is no problem in plugging it in...
          Television also works well here... we don't use that junk called NTSC :)

          Jeroen

          • Unless you buy braindead american equipment there is no problem in plugging it in...

            How's that? 99% of American electrical devices support 110-125v. Computer power supplies are just about the only devices that support both 110v and 220v. Besides that, the plugs are different anyhow, so they need to be changed even for computers.

            So, even the best American equipment needs a converter to be plugged-in anywhere outside the US. But the capabilities of electrical equipment was NOT the issue here.

            Televisio

    • Re:2006 eh? (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      2032? Well, I hope they are using more than 16-bit to calculate their dates, 'cause that's way past the 2028 crash!
    • Funny how the US has a 3G network deployed (yes, Sprint's network is "3G", but just barely) while the uber-slow, high latency GPRS is still the standard in Europe.

  • In Europe? No way.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fille ( 575662 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:14AM (#6039819) Homepage
    "All European operators are eventually expected to move to 3G networks to ensure that there is enough capacity to handle voice and increased data traffic."

    I don't think it will be introduced in Europe in the near future. Even WAP is a total disaster here. When will these people learn that we don't need 14.4 Mbits on our cellphone? We just want to make a call and send SMS. Japanese people may like the newest gadgets but in Europe, people do not get excited by this technology..
    • Japanese people may like the newest gadgets but in Europe, people do not get excited by this technology..


      They do get rather excited though by the prOn.

    • I don't think it will be introduced in Europe in the near future. Even WAP is a total disaster here.

      It's more of a chicken and egg problem really. WAP sucks for multimedia (Good things can be done with WAP, but they are rare). The 3G technology doesn't exist because there is no real market, but the market can't exist without the technology.

      Camera phones are becomming more and more visible, and MMS messaging is beginning to show... I would speculate this could very well help fuel an increased demand for

    • I'm not so sure about that (of course, it depends on the definition of "near future"). Lots of business people use GPRS or "High Speed Data" (or whatever it is called) to connect to the company network from anywhere and GPRS isn't *that* fast.

      • I don't know. Some phone companies nearly went bankrupt by developing GPRS networks (and buying very expensive licenses) that did not yield enough revenues. Maybe business users are interested in this technology but the market might be rather small. And cheap broadband and wireless internet access will become a competitor too.
        Overall, I don't think enough customers (and certainly not consumers) will turn up to pay back the (huge) sunk costs..
    • I DO want 14.4mbit on my phone. It means that I can watch video, do real videophone, choose the music I want to listen to realtime (instead of having to decide at home when writing your memorystick or whatever). The problem is that operators are aiming at the low-bandwidth-market with those new technologies. Which is utterly stupid. As soon as operators start to understand we DO want such speeds as long as it's affordable, this will take of.
      • Hmm, that's possible but I'm not sure that a big majority of consumers would like this functionality. And this would be necessary to pay back the sunk costs of these networks.
        Moreover, most services for a cell phone are quite expensive. Even a short message (SMS) costs 20 Eurocents, I think. Continuous broad band access (e.g. for music) will be much more expensive, I suppose. This will limit the adoption by a large group of consumers anyway.
        I would like see the introduction of such cheap services but I don
        • Exactly... cost is the issue... it will be for a very long time... the first time a user of one of the 3G phones gets their monthly bill and it's $500 (or 500 pounds, whatever)... they'll pretty soon drop back to using their phone as a phone and not some streaming media server... why anyone would want to pay oodles of money to watch jerky video playback on a pissweak little screen on a phone that'll run out of batteries inside of a couple of hours of that kind of use is beyond me.
      • ...and what of the batteries? Phones keep shrinking, batteries provide less run-time. The concept of the NETWORK makes sense, it's just that having a phone as the interface requires too many compromises.
    • First hey need to have more bandwidth, without a serious infrastructure, 14.4 Mbits won't mean shit, if the rest of the network is still slow.

      Really, there's barely enough to go round now, what happens when all these people start wanting real time video calls, etc?
    • Nicely argumented view. I especially like your references to numerous studies on the subject. And thanks for making it clear to me that I don't want mobile wideband-applications.
      Phew, I think I'd better go crawling back to the local landline monopoly and beg them to re-install a landline connection.
    • I Hate to tell you, but the, there is a segement that would love to recieve 14.4Mb over cellular, The public saftey community. We are currently evaluatng some the newest offerings from the likes of Verizon, Sprint, and Cigular, and to behonest, the bandwidth offered by the new tech looks to nice.
    • I used to think the way you do - but now I think 3G will be different. A lot of these 3G contracts have no monthly charge, and no contract - you pay for the data. The device costs about £200.

      So what?

      1) I agree that photo/video messaging is pointless, and people won't buy it.

      2) How much is a 2Mbit "always on" PCMCIA card worth in your laptop? Granted, the costs at the moment per Gb are pretty ugly - but they won't be for long.

      3) How about any device where security and resilience are not paramoun
      • A lot of these 3G contracts have no monthly charge, and no contract - you pay for the data.

        Which is exactly why I wouldn't buy such a system. In the bad old days of dial-up connections to the Internet, this was more or less the case (okay, so you payed for time online not data, but in principle it's the same). The main freedom I enjoy from broadband is not the high data rate (although that's nice) but rather freedom from the feeling that it is costing me money all the time I'm using it. I can't enjoy

      • the system is nowwhere near this speeds wth the currrent rollouts i'm seeing. the cards are roughly 500 to 600 USD with fees around 80USD a month for unlimeted usage. As to details, i'm not at liberty to devulge too many details, but the current data system used the public safty community in my state has vehical tracking enabled, and this system is starved for bandwidth. some of stoped thing of wireless as voice and toys moons ago
      • 4) What about the areas of the world that cannot get broadband? (pretty much anywhere that is > 3 miles from a phone exchange).

        Since when did broadband mean xDSL???

        I know tons of people more than 3 miles from the telco, and are speeding right along on their cablemodems. I'm sure they could also get ISDN, Frame Relay, have a T-1 installed (and possibly share it with neighbors), etc. Even 802.11 is broadband... No wires required.

  • Where are the applications? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nnnneedles ( 216864 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:16AM (#6039823)
    It would be nice to have an mp3 player that you could travel with and continuosly download music to without having to dock it to a stationary PC.

    other than that and multiplayer gaming, what cell phone applications possibly need this bandwidth?

    They are having a hard time coming up with useful applications for current cell phones with gprs as it is.
    • The students I teach here in Japan have cell phones that can do all sorts of things. Many of my students have been downloading music for a while. Almost all cell phones come with a built-in camera. They do email, web browsing and more.
      In Japan it is common to have a box attached to your door bell so that you can answer a phone inside the house and talk to the person. The cell phones have also been hooked up to the doors so that if someone rings your doorbell and you are on a trip in Tyoko you can answe
    • Give it an ethernet jack so I can plug my laptop in...Wireless broadband internet connection... w00t! w00t!
    • There is only one industry that is on the up while everything has been down for the past couple of years.

      I suspect this same industry is/will also be driving these cell networks.

      You guessed it, it's the p0rn.

  • i hate to be a buzzkill (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gTsiros ( 205624 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:16AM (#6039824)
    but we'd prefer broadband in our home for less than a kidney/month and have it *now* instead of 14Mb in our cellphones in 3 years.

    How come greece sucks so much that we're the only goddamn country in europe that still hasn't got dialup.

    i pay fucking E100/month for sucky dialup.

    you really think this 3g shit is going to make us happy?

    get lost.
    • because greece is in kokalistan, foo! seriously, when your ministry of telecoms is 0wn3d by a tycoon, and his companies have surpluses of ISDN modems, when do you think you're going to see broadband; when the ISDN modems run out. incidentally Deutche Telekom statistics show 30 million ISDN subscribers for 3 million DSL subscribers.

      additionally, service rates for dedicated _anything_ are astronomic in greece. Ote.net, the national telephony provider, quoted a rate of approximately 750 for 64kB. that would b
    • Do you know why Greece does not have broadband? Because Greece does not have a cable TV network. The only network capable of high-speed internet belongs to the phone company that, after decades of despotic state rule finds itself in a free economy. IIRC the proposed ADSL prices go something like 150EUR for a 256/64 connection. While ok for most people (I guess you wouldn't mind paying that much, for example), it is WAY overpriced for everyone else. And I won't even start speaking of Greek connectivity, it i
    • Where do you live?
    • And i thought my 35/month for cable (and friend's 25/month for ADSL) was expensive. :) (Living in Turkey)
    • Please don't be a liar ;). We DO have dialup. It's just that when your line is on PCM (if you don't know what it is , consider yourself lucky) and you complain about not being able to connect to the Internet, you are told that:
      "all you 'rich' assholes want Internet. You are LUCKY to have a phone! Now get out!"
      Nice? And then the chief technician (of a 200.000 people area in Athens) comes and tries to be a 'techie' , only to make you understand that his knowledge of modems is stuck to the ones seen in 'W
  • I wish I had that kind of connection via land.

  • Docomo (Score:1)

    by Hido ( 655301 )
    Well I mean at this moment in time I got a mobile [nttdocomo.co.jp] which does already have most of those nifty features. I do video conference, video mail, surf the web, record video (mind you with a 128MB flash rom I do 2 hours worth) and got many other new features. Only thing that is missing is a mp3 player in it, then I could get rid of the one I got now and just use the mobile :)

  • 3G is a gimmiky flop (Score:5, Informative)

    by jocks ( 56885 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:20AM (#6039838) Homepage
    We have had 3G introduced here in the UK and so far it is awful. The handsets are expensive, the service is expensive, the battery life is very poor, the phones don't play mp3/ogg, the reception is extremely bad and you cannot get "The Internet" on the system either (they don't like you talking about that).

    Call it what you like and make it as fast as you like but no-one is biting. It is an expensive technology conceived and financed at the height of the .COM boom which will never make its money back.

    Our biggest telecoms company wrote off the £9-billion license cost last week to try and stimulate the market. Guess what...no change.

    The first commercial vendor of 3G (a company called "3") has already resorted to pron to try to raise interest.

    Save your money, buy more memory or a bigger screen, or send your money to Ethiopia, but don't waste your cash on this junk it will only disappoint.

    • Re:3G is a gimmiky flop (Score:4, Informative)

      by RobertTaylor ( 444958 ) <roberttaylor1234.gmail@com> on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:25AM (#6039845) Homepage Journal
      The point the article makes is that the technology is yet to be with us - which is wrong.

      Its just the government crippled the mobile sector by making huge windfall taxes on the 3G licences. The billions must be made back somewhere, and currently even normal GSM services are expericaning a price hike.

      Technology is here, pricing is wrong. Bloody men in suits stopping things. Again.

      • Re:3G is a gimmiky flop (Score:5, Insightful)

        by jocks ( 56885 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:30AM (#6039858) Homepage
        I disagree with you. I think the technology is poorly conceived. Don't get me wrong, it is brilliantly done and very, very clever but it still does not "work". There is no way that I would make a call to my missus in a public place, shouting at a handset held two feet from my face. There is no way I would take out my expensive phone and make a video call in the pouring rain. There is no way I would make a video call whilst walking because I would end up bumping into people, standing on dog turds or falling down stairs. I cannot use the phone in bright light because of the ill-conceived TFT screen.

        Basically I can only fully use the phone inside, in privacy. I'm sorry, I have a life.
        • I'm sorry, I have a life.

          That's okay. I'm sure if you spend enough time on /. you can be cured of that...

        • "is no way that I would make a call to my missus in a public place, shouting at a handset held two feet from my face. There is no way I would take out my expensive phone and make a video call in the pouring rain. There is no way I would make a video call whilst walking because I would end up bumping into people, standing on dog turds or falling down stairs."

          Surely that is more the concept of video telephony being wrong, rather than the technology being faulty.

          Even with ultrafast, micro well coveraged pho
        • september 5th, 1890

          A car?

          I will never drive a car. There are no gasstations,
          only bad roads and they brake every now and then.

          Cars are gimmicks for rich people who have nothing better to do.

          I'll stick with my horse.
    • So is this the much touted Vodafone Live? Or a real UMTS rollout?

  • Wi-Fi? (Score:4, Informative)

    by apetime ( 544206 ) <.moc.liamg. .ta. .moc.epa.> on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:22AM (#6039841)
    I'm not that familiar with the new technology that DoCoMo is testing, but the impression I've gotten from the press lately is that most wireless companies are working Wi-Fi coupled with Voice over IP into their current and future plans.

    I've even seen some documents out of DoCoMo themselves that suggest they're thinking of moving toward a system that allows smooth roaming between high-bandwidth (1 Gbps) hotspots and a wide-area cellular system for a future 4G network.

    Can anyone familiar with this standard enlighten me as to how Wi-Fi and related technologies figure in it?

  • funny how (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by ViVeLaMe ( 305695 )
    This new technology will not arrive in Europe before 2006 at least.
    And the US are so backwater that they're not even mentionned, just like Africa.
  • This sounds really freakin' sweet! Granted I don't need this for my phone, it would be great for my mobile internet connection. Currently, I am using DDI Pocket's Air H" [ddipocket.co.jp] system (warning that is a Japanese page) and This little number from Fujitsu [fmworld.net] plugged into my iBook to get 128kbps access from anywhere in the Yokohama/Tokyo/Chiba area. It is nice, and the speed is decent enough considering I can use it anywhere.

    But, 14.4Mbps?!?!?! AWESOME! That is faster than my AirPort card! Unfortunately, if DoCoMo follows the same pricing methods as it did for FOMA (their 3G service), then this is something I will never be able to afford. They don't have a flat rate unlimited connection plan, but rather charge based on the amount of data you download (I pay DDI Pocket 10,000 yen per month for unlimited access and I probably abuse it...expensive but worth it for the mobility IMO).

    PLEASE, DoCoMo, give us a decently priced flat rate unlimited connection plan. I would seriously consider paying around 15,000 yen per month for something like that at this speed.

    BTW, I am currently a DoCoMo customer for my phone service. It isn't too expensive and my only complaints are the 500 character mail limit and the slow connection for iMode (my phone is 2 years old and only connects at 9600bps). But the coverage is AWESOME...and good thing for me since I will be spending a few months travelling around Japan by bicycle and I don't want to be caught without a signal in an emergency situation (speaking of which, any /.ers in Japan want to give a poor American traveler a place to crash for a night? email me).

    • Nothing personal, but you pay 10,000 yen for 128kbps, but you think something that increases the bandwidth by a power of 3 (or 6 or whatever) should only cost you 5,000 more a month?

      Damn you're optimistic :)
    • I also use AirH. 128k is definately their "ideal" speed, but I average more like 80k~90k with peaks into the 120k range. It is nice to be able to surf from anywhere, but paying 9000 yen/month hurts. The service also suffers from serious lag. there is no reason that a wireless service should have 500ms of lag between me and my default gateway.

      I wonder how long till the new service is rolled out in Tokyo?
  • ...with downloading pr0n to my cell phone is the screen is so small that all I can view are the thumbnails!
    • The real problem with downloading pr0n to my cell phone is the screen is so small that all I can view are the thumbnails!

      I suddenty have a vision of the next set of adverts for 3 targetting people with a thumb fetish...

  • Please, place your bets... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by asciimonster ( 305672 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:48AM (#6039892) Journal
    Ok, when is this going to be introduced in Europe? Let's make it a bet. I bet 100 slashdollars (the virtual currency used here at slashdot) that it will not be introduced before 2015.

    The reason I'm saying this is that most introduction dates for new communication technologies are far too optimistic.

    For instance, UMTS was supposed to be introduced by now. Haven't seen it yet. That miscalculation nearly bankrupted KPN Telecom (the Dutch telephone co.). Every home a (A)DSL connection? It's coming but not quite. Every youth an i-Mode? Nope.

    Problem is: introducing a new communication protocol usually requires a new infrastructure and that requires a lot of money. And when it is all about investing people (and especially europeans) like too wait for the competitor to make that investment.

    Hence my skeptisism.
    • Let's make it a bet. I bet 100 slashdollars (the virtual currency used here at slashdot) that it will not be introduced before 2015.

      What about inflation?

      Are you betting 100 slashdollars today, or 100 slashdollars as of 2015? Remember, there is inflation and the associated cost-of-living increases!

  • I'll be impressed ... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheGrayArea ( 632781 ) <graymc AT cox DOT net> on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:49AM (#6039893) Homepage
    When we can get less dropped calls and actually get decent cell phone coverage away from the interstates. Check out the cell maps of the major carriers, they all hug the lines created by interstates. You go to a rural area like I'm from and the coverage is crap. IMHO the feature set of cell phones is starting to creep into the "that's cool, but I don't think I'll ever need it" category. The camera phones have got to the be worst.
  • According to the investor relations PDF here [nttdocomo.co.jp] (in Japanese!), HSPDA was released in March 2002 as part of the FOMA initiative.

    It also says the maximum data transfer rate is 14Mbps. Which is not the same as throughput.

  • So where did it all go then? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Realistic_Dragon ( 655151 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @07:56AM (#6039910) Homepage
    Sure, these handsets are 14.4 odleplexes of bandwidths per second, on paper.

    I have had a chance to play with a next gen DocoMo handset, and the video - while strictly geek appeal only and something I would deliberatly turn off for every day use so I don't have to shave - was watchable only until you started moving, then it just breaks up. The faster you go the worse the picture - by the time you get up to car+ speeds you are restricted to voice only calls.

    They also seem to have a massive latency, far worse than my 14.4k/sec CSD dial up mobile connection, and that's only 1p/min. 3.5G might be good for the odd small file or even some streaming formats, but for SSH it blows.

    It would be interesting to find out what compression they use for it - probably something that is as light on the CPU as possible, but that really shows in the transmission quality.

    The telecomms industry could do with starting from the ground up (rather than building off the technologically suspect CDMA or GSM systems) with a new, open standard 100% packet based network with IP6 support - then and maybe then the internet (and related services) on a mobile level could become a killer app. Until then they would be best off sticking to voice calls and massivly overcharging for SMS.

    • The telecomms industry could do with starting from the ground up (rather than building off the technologically suspect CDMA or GSM systems) with a new, open standard 100% packet based network with IP6 support - then and maybe then the internet (and related services) on a mobile level could become a killer app. Until then they would be best off sticking to voice calls and massivly overcharging for SMS.

      Oh boy, flame on.

      It might be worth having a rummage on 3GPP [3gpp.org] to see what's really going on. Yes, there w

  • Prices (Score:4, Informative)

    by baaa ( 157342 ) <(bruno) (at) (afonso.info)> on Monday May 26, 2003 @08:02AM (#6039927)
    Uau, just think of this: my current operator charges 0,02 per 1024 bytes with GPRS connections. (Portugal, Optimus)
    That's right, you read it correctly, it's 0,02 per 1024 bytes!

    At these prices 14.4Mbps is almost 2000 /sec.

    • Re:Prices (Score:4, Interesting)

      by toriver ( 11308 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @08:24AM (#6039982)
      At these prices 14.4Mbps is almost 2000 /sec.

      UMTS (3G) and later aren't volume-priced as GPRS is, but are "always-on" that you pay blood per month (probably 200 or so) to use, plus charges from service operators.

      Still, I have no idea who will buy UMTS or 3.5G devices, though - I spend 90% of my time in the vicinity of an internet-connected computer, I am not interested in paying a fortune just to be able to use a small set of services when I'm not.
  • 16.8K HST to be exact.

    Ahh and the arms race to get to 19.8!!!

    Suck it down NTT!
  • I can only talk from my point of view, but enough all ready with

    -You can play your MP3s on it
    -You can watch video on it
    -You can teach it to knit
    It's supposed to be a phone....
    The only free time i have is when I cycle to work on a bicycle in the rain I don't even listen to that much music in the first place.

    I'll put my hand in my pocket and buy a phone when it stops me getting wet when i cycle to work or when it makes my work easier.

    I was blown away when in early 1996 i saw a hand held, web ena
  • You get this. Companies advancing technology to offer better services to stay ahaead of their competition.

    It's a damn shame not a lot of this happens in the U.S. anymore. :-(

  • We have this already (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Bruha ( 412869 )
    Verizon Wireless is testing EVDO (Evolution Data Only) in the beltline area of Washington State.

    While it does not promise 14 megabit speeds (What you gonna run slashdot off it?) it will do 600Kbit while moving and 2.4 megabit stationary.

    I think also there's an expansion out in San Diego also.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=EVDO&sourceid=mo z il la-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf- 8

    Edumacate yourself :)
    • The word from the Big V is they are also testing in the Baltimore area. Since Big V is in the process of getting a migration from CDPD to Rx1TT going, i dont see EVDO become wide spread untill 2008 or so.

  • At 14.4 Mb/s... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Markus Registrada ( 642224 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @10:41AM (#6040488)
    The battery life for these things will be about three minutes.

    Assuming that by the time the networks get built we can use fuel-cell batteries, then the problem will be heat build-up. Can you imagine a phone with a fan? Heat pumps are little help, because they can only move heat from inside to the case, and you can't have the phone getting too hot to hold. "Are you happy to see me, or is that a 4G phone in your pocket?" I suppose ice fisherman could use them to keep their hands warm.

    Before these things could become practical we would need asynchronous-logic chips or spin-coupled logic, both over a decade off.

    The days of defrauding investors are far from over.

  • I have the Sprint Pocket PC CDMA phone from Toshbia, and I'm in their area where I can get their "Vision" services. I can stream mostly classical/digitally imported to my cell phone with no issue. It's stereo, I can play it back in stereo, or use it as my "Other XM" when I'm driving through the city. I can also stream videos from my server with no issues. I can ssh into boxes with no issues (aside from the lack of keyboard).

    Although I hate sprint PCS with a passion, I will admit that the Service is ok.

  • Is this really the way forward? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by aaarrrgggh ( 9205 ) on Monday May 26, 2003 @12:32PM (#6040975)
    Japan might have a market for it, but I have difficulty believing anywhere else does.

    Simple question:
    If I can't use my cell phone in the basement, on the elevator, wherever... how can I continue to put more and more important data on its network?

    The phone companies will never have an incentive to serve my basement (at work)... so what I really need is some kind of inexpensive repeater... 802.11x or whatever.

    Since the idea of active repeaters (as opposed to remote antennas in a high-rise to improve reception) is so contrary to the way the telephone industry works, how are we ever going to get "cooperating networks," where the data flows on the best possible path?
  • If you search at most of the mobile network manufacturers you can find actual real hard info about this system. For example this PDF white paper at Nokia [nokia.com].
  • Now if they made a way for that phone to talk to my car's stereo, so I could recieve streaming audio while I drive, now that would be cool.

    Otherwise, I see very little point in these phones.
  • Yeah like this is ever going to fly. At least not in the US, assuming it even gets a chance to be done over here in the first place.

    Cause I mean, why give people decent connection speeds when you can rape small businesses out the ass with 1980s telecom pricing plans? A T-1 has to be $1000/month FOREVER, so nobody can have that kinda upstream for less.

    Oh and since AT&T will force a 19.2k upstream cap, and the greedy and desperate wireless companies will disallow normal TCP connections unless you pay fo
    • Sprint PCS Vision. 500 anytime minutes, unlimited night and weekend minutes, unlimited minutes to other Sprint phones, no roaming, no long distance. Unlimited 150 kilobit data service.

      $45 per month on your phone. You can hook it up to your PC if you want..

      T-Mobile Sidekick. 200 anytime minutes, 1000 night and weekend minutes, no roaming, no long distance. Unlimited GPRS data service. Java based, free SDK available. AIM native client. Native email client. And one really cool microbrowser. $40 per month.

      Tw
  • This has the potential to fuck up all local wideband broadband startups. I can foresee the federal & corporate businesses cracking down on small and free wideband usage. These guys know that 3g sucked and couldn't compete with wideband so they incorporated it and now will try and force wideband users out of the market potentially. This is a big potential conflict when Corporate owned government and small and small and free enterprises collide . You can kiss free WIDEBAND access good bye!
    more info here [212.100.234.54]
  • This kind of bandwidth is used by mobile phones for video-calls and streaming. This is all "lifestyle" applications. It's 14.4mbps but how many people connect this to a laptop or PDA? The point is, too much bandwidth, too little application.

    Most of the time video-calls will show someone's ear...

    Telcos want to deliver content. Voice was the content, data is the content, but they want to control it, like MyO2 or Vodafone Live! services, "walled garden" services.

    Of course other services with "bursts" of dat
  • Well shit, who needs a 14.4 megabit connection on thier cellphone? Screw that, tell me how to hook it up to my computer.
  • 3.5G?? 40 x as fast??? bwahhahaha! The global auctions of 3G spectrum netted billions worldwide, crippling Telco's, and we still have yet to see this technology (except in Japan) because the costs to the consumer are massive. Yet forget all that, whens 3.5G coming out?

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