T-Mobile Dumps MS SmartPhone 353
burgburgburg writes "It seems that T-Mobile International, Europe's second largest mobile phone operator, has decided against introducing a Microsoft SmartPhone after all. T-Mobile had announced their plans in February to introduce the MS SmartPhone this summer. Industry insiders say that the software for the phone continued to have 'fundamental problems,' leading to a high failure rate. French mobile carrier Orange introduced a MS SmartPhone, SPV, late last year. It initially had software security problems which Microsoft has claimed are patched."
it figures...... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:it figures...... (Score:5, Informative)
No, it doesn't figure. It's not a French phone at all. It's manufactured by a Taiwanese company for a German customer. And with which part of the phone is there a problem? The software developed by Microsoft, a U.S. company.
yep, that's a 1.0 product for ya (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:yep, that's a 1.0 product for ya (Score:3, Insightful)
Huh.. except Windows, I wouldn't say anything else in that list has done well. Unless you meant doing well as "Educating prospects about better alternatives". IE, WMP etc haven't done MS any good - and they're already at versions 6 and 9.
It even appears that MS partners are now treating them like MS used to, not so long ago. Kinda suggests the Windows success has proved very costly for MS, actua
Re:yep, that's a 1.0 product for ya (Score:2)
IE, WMP etc haven't done MS any good
How can you say that? IE, at version 3, was way better than Netscape 3, at the time the only serious competition around. Hell, it was better than Netscape 4 too, but that wasn't difficult. IE got Microsoft the dominant position in the browser wars.
And WMP has allowed WMA to become the "standard" for DRM and encrypted audio. I think those two products have indeed done MS a lot of good.
Re:yep, that's a 1.0 product for ya (Score:3, Informative)
It also got them:
Zero revenue.
Hundreds of headaches and bugs.
Negative media coverage in the anti-trust trial.
Not worth it, IMO.
"And WMP has allowed WMA to become the "standard" for DRM and encrypted audio. "
Music and content thru DRM and encrypted audio could be less than 1% of the total music market. Setting a standard in a niche segment doesn't count for much.
Re:yep, that's a 1.0 product for ya (Score:2)
Zero revenue.
Hundreds of headaches and bugs.
Negative media coverage in the anti-trust trial.
Not worth it, IMO.
Ah, but you forgot about
Persuade people to stick with the browser that comes with Windows, rather than using another one.
On that level, IE is a stunning success.
Music and content thru DRM and encrypted audio could be less than 1% of the total music market. Setting a standard in a niche segment doesn't count for much.
For now. But if DRM does take off, Microsoft has that base
Re:yep, that's a 1.0 product for ya (Score:2, Insightful)
Lets have a look....
IE & cookies = Yes or No.
Any Other Browser & cookies = What Ever The Fuck You Want.
IE & pop-ups = Find and install a pop-up stopper.
AOB & pop-ups = WETFYW
IE & tabbed browsing = What are tabs?
AOB & tabbed browsing = WETFYW
Re:yep, that's a 1.0 product for ya (Score:3, Informative)
And where is IE today?
Lets have a look....
And yet 90% of the net is still using IE? Why? Because features like that don't matter to Joe User. IE is "good enough", and inertia wins. They can't be bothered to upgrade.
Re:yep, that's a 1.0 product for ya (Score:5, Insightful)
And with regards to WMP, I think one of the other replies says it all. Its a platform which is available on 95% of the world's desktops (give or take a few of us Mac & Linux users) and I'm sure their masterplan is to liase with the recording industry and create a secure computing platform (not my words) for the playback of music.
Tim
Re:yep, that's a 1.0 product for ya (Score:5, Insightful)
Internet Explorer hasn't done MS any good? Huh?
The entire purpose of Internet Explorer was to put Netscape out of business, and it did essentially that. Netscape made the mistake of touting its Communicator product, combined with its Web server software and Java and JavaScript technologies as an applications platform, rendering the underlying OS as being largely irrelevant. Microsoft responded with Internet Explorer and began the whole 'embrace and extend' strategy towards Internet standards and the rest is history.
As for Windows Media Player -- I'm not even sure what Microsoft's goals were for that.
Windows Media Player goals (Score:3, Insightful)
As for Windows Media Player -- I'm not even sure what Microsoft's goals were for that. ;)
WMP is a multi-pronged strategy. First, it helps cut off the Apple publishing/video editing platform leakage. Secondly it cuts off the air supply to other video format vendors/producers (such as Real Networks) by making those external products surplus to requirements for the average user. The Window Media formats hold the potential to control the encodings and base formats of a large amount of digital video in the fu
Re:yep, that's a 1.0 product for ya (Score:3, Interesting)
However, if you stick to addressing the parent posters comments re: "Tablet PC and Pocket PC", I don't think either can be called a "stunning success". I don't know ANYONE using Tablet and PocketPC has been mixed with about 1/2 the folks I know returning them or getting tired of them early on
Pocket
Re:yep, that's a 1.0 product for ya (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah, but their competitors before were either small companies (Netscape) playing on MS turf (the desktop) or too dense to figure out they were being screwed until it was too late (IBM).
Problem for MS is that there aren't a lot of those companies left. The small guys stay out of the way, or are already out of business, and the big guys don't trust MS.
Of the three big pushes MS is putting on right now:
I suppose you could add to that the server OS market: MS looked like it was going to take over, and had lots of momentum, but the old guard (Unix, OS/390) held out long enough for a different kind of competitor (Linux) to start pushing back. It's unlikely that MS will grow their server market share any further, and it looks like they're headed for a gradual decline.
Without the PC, Microsoft is helpless (Score:4, Interesting)
First, MS has only been successful in things that they can bind to Windows (prime example is MS Office which generates about 40% of MS revenues, a phyrric victory is IE which generates no revenue but was also pushed by the Windows domination), everything else is losing money.
All the following projects have been canceled:
- Windows/Mips
- Windows/PowerPC
- Windows/Alpha
- "HomeR" Project
- Modular Windows
- "Otto" Project (SW for cars; 1992)
- MMOSA (Set-Top-boxes Operating System
- WebTV
- Blackbird/Internet Studio (1995)
- proprietary MSN (Microsoft should have become the sole ISP, remember?)
- COOl (C++ Object Orientated Language)
- PenWindows
- Microsoft Bob
- Ultimate TV
- Hailstorm (2001 - 2002)
Those projects are losing money:
- XBox (revenues declined by 40% in Q1 2003, losses nearly doubled (+96%) http://www.golem.de/showhigh.php?file=/0305/25460
- Non-proprietary MSN
- Mice, keyboards
- Cell phone OS (Stinger)
I don't know where all the "MS will win automatically" people crawl from, if you look at their track record, they have lots and lots of unsuccessful projects.
If you look at the big picture, MS is currently being stripped off everything except their core business (x86-desktop). And wether MS is really able to make the 64-Bit transition is questionable. They are so incompetent in producing something 64Bit that they will lose a lot of people to Linux/Athlon64, even on the desktop.
In the non-graphic embedded market, Linux is already the standard, on cellphones Symbian is the standard and Linux is coming, leaves only PDAs, where Microsoft is still holding out (but there Linux is coming, too).
Re:Without the PC, Microsoft is helpless (Score:2, Informative)
Linux the embedded OS standard??? (Score:2)
Why does everyone insist on claiming that linux has taken over the embedded market? What about VXworks? PalmOS? QNX? Are these people quaking in their boots? I don't think so. What about all the special purpose real time OSes that many companies use. Linux isn't the standard in the embedded market any more than it is the standard on the desktop. Yes, it's more popular than it was a couple of years ago, and will probably get more popular w
Re:Linux the embedded OS standard??? (Score:5, Insightful)
I work in the embedded market and it is the standard.
Our partner-company was a 100% Microsoft-shop and Linux is forbidden in the corporate LAN - yet they still chose Linux as their platform for *ALL* their new devices.
What about VXworks? PalmOS? QNX? Are these people quaking in their boots?
Yes they are. You can get big discounts from everybody.
What about all the special purpose real time OSes that many companies use.
Used in many existing devices, but for most new developments, a real OS is chosen for shorter development time. (the hardware is fast enough already)
Linux isn't the standard in the embedded market any more than it is the standard on the desktop.
Laughable. According to this study: here [heise.de] Linux (+ BSD) was running on 11% of existing systems in 2001, but was used for 50% of new projects.
I can only confirm these developments, Linux is already the de-facto standard on embedded systems.
Re:Linux the embedded OS standard??? (Score:3, Insightful)
27% is not 50%. But even so, 50% does not imply a standard, it just means it's the most popular. When 90% of embedded projects use linux, you'll have a case to make.
Re:Linux the embedded OS standard??? (Score:3, Interesting)
I work in the embedded market and it is the standard.
I work in the embedded market, too, and me thinks you don't even realize just how big the "embedded" market is.
For your information, *most* embedded systems don't even use an operating system. They are developed based on microcontrollers and the software is designed to solve a specific functional problem, unit cost must be minimized, and operating systems such as Lin
Re:Without the PC, Microsoft is helpless (Score:5, Interesting)
First, MS has only been successful in things that they can bind to Windows (prime example is MS Office which generates about 40% of MS revenues, a phyrric victory is IE which generates no revenue but was also pushed by the Windows domination), everything else is losing money.
No argument there.
All the following projects have been canceled:
- Windows/Mips
- Windows/PowerPC
- Windows/Alpha
- "HomeR" Project
- Modular Windows
- "Otto" Project (SW for cars; 1992)
- MMOSA (Set-Top-boxes Operating System
- WebTV
- Blackbird/Internet Studio (1995)
- proprietary MSN (Microsoft should have become the sole ISP, remember?)
- COOl (C++ Object Orientated Language)
- PenWindows
- Microsoft Bob
- Ultimate TV
- Hailstorm (2001 - 2002)
Most of these were not so much products, but rather blocking moves by MS, designed to head off possible threats to the Windows cash-cow. Admittedly, some of them were better thought out than others. *grin* PenWindows did succeed in its real purpose, that of stopping Go Corp from building a viable competitor to Windows for what was at the time thought to be the Next Big Thing. Other products you mention have been recycled into other projects - COOL eventually became C#, while Internet Studio's technology found its way into Microsoft's development tools, particularly Visual Interdev.
If you look at the big picture, MS is currently being stripped off everything except their core business (x86-desktop). And wether MS is really able to make the 64-Bit transition is questionable. They are so incompetent in producing something 64Bit that they will lose a lot of people to Linux/Athlon64, even on the desktop.
Based on past history, the deciding factor will not be whether or not Microsoft succeeds, but rather whether or not the competition falters or dithers long enough for Microsoft to come through with a credible bodge-job that can woo potential customers.
Re:Without the PC, Microsoft is helpless (Score:2)
Well, the rules have changed. When Intel made the 16 to 32 Bit transition, Microsoft was too incompetent to supply a 32Bit OS for half a decade. But there was basically no 32Bit alternative to MS DOS and later Windows on x86, so Microsoft got away with thei
Hidden Simpson's reference? (Score:2)
- Modular Windows
- "Otto" Project (SW for cars; 1992)
I wonder if the "Otto" project was an attept to drive away the Apple Lisa. [applefritter.com]
Re:Without the PC, Microsoft is helpless (Score:2)
D'oH!
Re:Without the PC, Microsoft is helpless (Score:2)
Last time I checked, Hailstorm was still very much alive, but buried deep within the company. It's still gestating, developing, until the market is ready. They aren't forgetting how lucrative the market for personal services could be. You just wait and see.
Re:Without the PC, Microsoft is helpless (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably from under some rock in Seattle. All of this Guys comments fall into these 4 easy categories
1) "...Yep, MS-product XYZ may be crap but, watch out for version 3
2) "...Yes, MS-product XYZ does support PQR, I have it on a shelf in front of me
3) "...I have a 'NON-MS-Product' and the a' MS-Product XYZ is better
4) "... Download this MS-Software product patch from 'Some MS-Web Site' ".
If you dont believe me check it out, here [slashdot.org] if it wasnt so obvious astroturfing it would be truely sad.
Re:yep, that's a 1.0 product for ya (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually no. As a business strategy it sucks.
If any other business tried it they would go down faster than a drunk girl at prom.
Microsoft has always has the DOS/Windows OEM sales to keep them afloat when the first 2 revisions fail.
And since ms can keep tossing money away and their competitors can't, ms usually wins out of attrition.
Ms simply has deeper pockets than everyone else because of DOS/Win OEM sales.
Re:yep, that's a 1.0 product for ya (Score:2)
That was the strategy of fledgling pre-NT Microsoft. The new strategy is, get a foot in the door and then buy the place.
How many versions ? (Score:3, Insightful)
It took them at least 5 major release to get DOS right finally with v5.5.
It took them at least 6/7 major versions to get C(C++) right.
Its taken then 9 or 10 versions to get windows right with XP (v1,v2,v2.2,v3,v3.11,NT,95,NT3.5,98,NT3.5,ME) and finally XP.
It took them 5 major versions to get IE right and they throw it away with version 6.
And these where their core products.
Something they've never got *right*, Office (Outlook,Word,Access), IIS, Frontpage Outlook/Exchange, J++.
In some cases they took-ov
Re:yep, that's a 1.0 product for ya (Score:2)
A Smartphone needs to be smart, it needs to actually work as business folks don't have the tolerance of geeks.
Yes, PocketPC devices did sell well eventually, but the competition was quite weak. It has taken Palm a long time to move to ARM processors and increase their screen resolution.
Smartphones however are a different market, Symbian OS is available as source so each phone maker can customise it, the apps don't need signing (was needed for t
very suspicious (Score:5, Funny)
Re:very suspicious (Score:2)
Good point. I have excellent locks on my front door. If I leave them unlocked and get robbed. Not only is the robber liable for what he stole, but I am going to sue him for damages relating to the fact that he made my unlocked door known. It is HIS fault not mine!!
Re:very suspicious (Score:2)
When it was done, it disabled the DRM restrictions that were present at the time, allowing you to install lot's of useful unsigned programs. This is no longer required, as you can do the unlock via the
Sendo, T-Mobile, U... (Score:2, Funny)
Sendo
T-Mobile
U and me
V (We all) and the whole
World
From S to T, it's taken about 6 months. In another 18 months....
Not the first one to drop MS smartphone (Score:5, Informative)
http://archive.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02
Funny: Its been technical problems, security issues, lack of focus on applications.
Hmm that sounds familiar.
Re:Not the first one to drop MS smartphone (Score:3, Insightful)
And this shows a difference in desktop/laptop computers, and consumer electronics like phones.
Desktop computers are accepted by the general public as "it just crashed" and that's normal.
My cellphone doesn't crash. It doesn't lock up. It may occassionally take longer to get a signal lock and network logon in a new city than I'd like when travelling, but that's the only real problem I have with it. Ever. (Yes, it's a Nokia.)
danger hiptop (Score:4, Informative)
Re:danger hiptop (Score:2)
Newton, errr, danger hiptop (Score:3, Interesting)
Also the M and N keys are dying again (this is sidekick #2) and logging it takes forever. Well not forever, it just means another reboot on the bus.
I thint t-mobile took the plunge with new G3 technology from Americans and got burned by it and badly. The sidekick was supposed to be a cheap teen to 20som
I know what the problem is.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I know what the problem is.. (Score:5, Insightful)
But, I will say that I was of the same mind until I got my new phone. I have a PDA, a laptop, a desktop, an mp3 player, a digital camera, why do i need a phone that does some of that badly? Because it's always on you. I picked up one of those Nokia 3650 phones, and I'm changed. Why? Because I always can take a snapshot. Sounds corny i know, but it really is handy for those times when you see a McLaren F1 parked in a Quizno's in Waco, Texas (thank you God!) and you need to take a picture right now. Or when it's all I have when I'm at a meeting and I need to remember something, I put it on the calendar, sync it to Outlook (which syncs it with my pocketpc) and I'm good to go.
Re:I know what the problem is.. (Score:2)
I'm not sure about the whole e-mailing it to friends thing. Might be cool on vacation as a post card, I suppose.
Re:I know what the problem is.. (Score:2)
How much would it cost to send and receive pictures on the handset though? Especially if they were any kind of half decent quality.
Re:I know what the problem is.. (Score:2)
Yes, but what good is it if from the resulting picture you cannot identify if it's a McLaren F1 or a Fiat Multipla?
Re:I know what the problem is.. (Score:2)
Not surprised. (Score:5, Interesting)
DUH.
Something went very wrong in the QA chain between Microsoft, the 3rd parties and the mobile telcos when they were trying to rush this out.
Re:Not surprised. (Score:2)
The SPV has some definite issues. It is not comparable to other phones (eg my T68i). MS by releasing a service pack for the SPV is using a PC frame of mind when developing phones. This is just not the way things are done. Likewise with the branding where the phone is tied to the network.
Re:Not surprised. (Score:2)
software updates for my phone?? (Score:4, Interesting)
Jesus, it's a frickin PHONE, I can see PDA's, I can see embedded OS's, but trying to cram as much as they are into a phone the size that it is then springing the Microsoftian "security through service packs" is one straw too many.
I'll stuck with having slightly bulging pockets, thanks.
Re:software updates for my phone?? (Score:2, Insightful)
The problem is, Microsoft seems to have this problem with keeping things simple. Well, for that matter, with regards to ce
Re:software updates for my phone?? (Score:3, Interesting)
I completely agree with you. Cell phones should call people. Now, some extra functions are useful on occasion, but the vast majority of them aren't. If I wanted to send my friends E-mail from a portable device, I would either get a Blackberry or I would use a cell phone and my Newton to dial into my ISP. The only reason that I would get a cell phone is to make calls.
Re:software updates for my phone?? (Score:2)
SmartPhones suck (Score:2)
It absolutely SUCKS! Now, as someone that fails to carry much around, it's useful... now I have a PDA the 85% of the time I remember my cel phone. However, as a phone it blows. Everytime the software crashes, I lose my voice dialing settings. Without voice dialing, the lack of a real keypad is a killer.
I'll admit, actual
Re:software updates for my phone?? (Score:2)
Incorrect (Score:5, Informative)
Also, RCR says [rcrnews.com]:
a T-Mobile spokesman said the carrier had never set a definite date, only that it would begin selling the phone sometime this summer. Spokesman Philipp Schindera said there are software problems with the phone, and that T-Mobile, manufacturer HTC and Microsoft are working to fix those problems. He said the phone has not been delayed, because there are still several months of summer left.
Re:Incorrect (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Incorrect (Score:5, Informative)
"We have decided not to introduce this phone,'' a T-Mobile representative said on the sidelines of a Deutsche Telekom news conference. "For the time being, we are not pursuing this project further.'
OK, fair enough. Maybe they will later. Though they didn't confirm. And the only substantial comment in the msmobiles site (msmobiles? They couldn't be biased), is the following conjecture: Please note: "for the time being" does not mean "never".
So right now, they've dropped it. They haven't delayed it, they aren't waiting around for Microsoft or HTC to fix anything, but "For the time being, we are not pursuing this project." So the project is stopped. They might pick it up at a later date, but they aren't just "delaying" the project as the msmobiles excerpt seems to imply.
Yeah patch it cowboy (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah, connect your smartphone to the SmartWindowsUpdate via GPRS. It only takes about several megabytes(every week) of download(yes in fact that's entire OS replacement) and in view of the present strikely *low* GPRS rate (US$1/kbyte) it won't be too much hassle, will it?
Re:Yeah patch it cowboy (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Yeah patch it cowboy (Score:3, Interesting)
Do you know what sending an SMS costs here in the US? It's actually cheaper to just call there person for five minutes than to send a few messages back an forth.
I know, it defies all logic. SMS's are so many orders of magnitude less of a burden on the network, yet they cost more. The cell phone system here is insane.
People in Europe have it pretty good, but the Japanese are the ones who get all the really cool stuff. If I
Re:Yeah patch it cowboy (Score:4, Insightful)
Check his user info. He only has 3 comments, ever. All of them in this thread about how great the MS smart phone is and how "Smartphone is a brilliant OS."
Sounds like a rabid MS fanboy or an astroturfer to me.
Here [reviewcentre.com] is a link to some user reviews of this phone. In particular, note the user reviews which describe these updates which he claimed just increase efficiency, are actually necessary to keep the phone from crashing all the time.
This is my favorite quote from his postings:
"There was never any problems with the OS, only the Orange side of it. The firmware upgrade has improved performance and batterylife and its now a very good phone/pda."
Funny, it seems everyone else's smartphone crashes but his. Maybe he got a magic phone.
... But they don't need a carrier to approve them (Score:4, Interesting)
So, I not exactly sure what this news is all about. It's probably in relation to launching the phone with some extra value-added services usable only with the smartphone.
I wouldn't read too much into it.
Re:... But they don't need a carrier to approve th (Score:2, Informative)
MS Responds (Score:3, Funny)
ERROR (Score:3, Funny)
Your phone has crashed, please restart and run disk check up before using your MSPhone again Error 8H
Thank you for purchasing MS Smartphone.... (Score:5, Funny)
*Disclaimer:
Although we use the terms "security" and "privacy" in much of our press releases, we can guarantee neither. Your personal details and credit card numbers will be safely stored on our secure system which is roughly equivalent to leaving your keys in your car's ignition.
msmobiles, Iraqi info. minister and the US ..... (Score:3, Funny)
" Make no mistake: Microsoft is on track to enter cell phone industry big time, and these initial teething problems will be soon over. "
The style is reminescent of perpared speeches and a certain Al-Shaf. Interesting.
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/720.html
Re:msmobiles, Iraqi info. minister and the US .... (Score:2)
" Make no mistake: Microsoft is on track to enter cell phone industry big time, and these initial teething problems will be soon over. "
The style is reminescent of perpared speeches and a certain Al-Shaf. Interesting."
Microsoft said the same thing with WindowsCE later renamed Windows-powered devices. Look now?
The palm folks laughed but look at palms stock price now? It was $.80 a share the last time I looked! MS took over 75% of the market in less then 2 years! N
From the post-anal-extracted-statistics department (Score:3, Informative)
According to this article [gartner.com] from Gartner it's more like:
PalmOs: 55.2%
Windows CE (sic): 25.7%
That's as of January.
PC World has similar numbers [pcworld.com]:
PalmOS: 48.6%
Pocket PC: 30%
That's as of October.
What was your source of info again? And did you wash afterwards?
-chris
Guilty of WrongThink (Score:5, Insightful)
Cell phones require far more resilience then organizers or pocket PCs. For example: Compare the Treo to the Nokia Communicator. While the second is designed as a cell phone with added functionality, the first is primarily an organizer with crammed in phone functionality. I know a number of happy Communicator users, while the number of happy Treo users I know of is precisely zero.
In addition embrace and extend is a philopsophy, which rightfully has zero credibility in the phone business. It's all about (meticulously respected) standards.
Re:Guilty of WrongThink (Score:2, Interesting)
Second, having used a demo Smartphone for about 2 months, it does a pretty good job of being a phone and a very good job of being a PDA. I've enjoyed using it, except that the battery doesn't last long enough.
Also, I'm pretty tired of it
Re:Guilty of WrongThink (Score:2)
it's the samsung sgh-i500, not to be confused with the sph-i500. looks sweet.
i am a little skeptical of the palmos 5 business. a lot of ppl criticized the new kyocera 7135 for coming out so late with only palmos 4 support. but palmos 4 means a less power-hungry processor, which translates into better battery life--critical for a phone. but if samsung can pull it off with this new phone, i'm all over it. of course we may not see it for a long long time.
Symbian (Score:5, Interesting)
The Symbian OS (formerly known as EPOC) was designed from the ground up for small devices with small screens. Even the older version that my Revo ran was more feature-rich and polished than any other PDA OS I've touched. Most importantly (for cellphone use) the OS itself was rock solid. I can't remember a single time when I was forced to reboot.
Simply put, Microsoft is offering too little, too late. Most of the major cellphone manufacturers has signed on for Symbian.
Re:Symbian (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Symbian (Score:5, Insightful)
Epoc is the most stable OS I've ever used. And as an organizer a Psion has one of the best usable aganda/database/spreadsheet applications, compared to other organizers (Palm/pocketpc).
Re:Symbian (Score:5, Interesting)
Like you, now I have a Zaurus, which is an improvement over the Revo in just about every way possible, except now in a vertical form-factor (arguably also an improvement). My only complaint is the battery life. The apps could use some work, but the development environment on the Zaurus is just so damn cool (it don't get any better than Linux + Qt, folks), that I'm sure the apps will greatly improve over time. I just hope the product survives. Probably one of the reasons Psion died out in the USA is because of Palm/PocketPC dominance.
Re:Symbian (Score:2)
Re:Symbian (Score:5, Insightful)
Bill Gates is successful because he is a good businessman. I once got curious and did a little research on the worlds richest people. Know what all of those who made their own money seem to have in common? Insane business sense/craftiness. The ability to work deals that just make others shake their heads. He knows how to work the system for all it's worth.
Bill Gates has always bet on Moore's Law, and has always won.
MS has never really worried about beating competitors spec-wise, not because of Moore's Law, but because they beat them other (often illegal) ways. If doesn't matter if the other guy's software is better, if you control the OS that everyone uses. All you have to do is develop/buy your own and bundle it with your OS. Instant market share. You make money because you just charge more for the OS to recover the cost, while the other company dies. Why is anyone going to buy a competitor's product (for additional cost), when the already have the MS equivalent?
Now, back on topic: MS can't use this tactic to get WinCE on cellphones. This means they have to compete on a (somewhat) level playing-field. Since their software is currently inferior to Symbian OS for smartphone use, I predict they will loose. By the time WinCE is stable enough, it will be too late, another OS will have already become the standard.
The only way I can see MS really making it in the embedded OS field is if they take huge losses, basically giving their stuff away, until they get market share. They definately have the money to do this, but even so, they may not get anywhere. Even if they charge $0, they still have to compete with embedded Linux at the same price point. With Linux, companies know that they will always be able to redistribute it royalty-free. They also know that, at some point, MS is going to want to make back the money the spent developing WinCE, so they will get charged for it eventually.
Meanwhile:
Symbian is owned by Ericsson, Panasonic, Motorola, Nokia, Psion, Samsung, Siemens and Sony Ericsson.
That's basically all the major cellphone manufacturers. Since they all own the OS, they know they're getting their OS just about as cheap as possible anyways, as well as knowing that they have control over it in the future.
Since their cellphones are already the standard, one can be pretty sure that whatever OS they choose to put on them will also become the standard. Just like MS choosing IE.
I'll tell you how they can win. (Score:2)
Re:Symbian (Score:3, Informative)
Power consumption in CMOS logic is directly proportional to your clock speed, and how many transistors you have switching. This is proportional to how much computing you're doing. If your OS requires less computation to run, you use less power, and your battery lasts longer than the competition's.
Maybe Moor
here's another Microsoft embedded device (Score:5, Funny)
From Reuters [reuters.com]
Here is Microsoft's proud announcement of their partnership with BMW. [microsoft.com]
Re:Mod UP! (Score:2)
An attempt to defend...(I'm not impressed) (Score:5, Interesting)
Jimmy Grewal followed up on recent notes about a BMW computer bug that trapped the occupant inside his car:
I work for Microsoft (program manager for Mac Internet Explorer), and I own a 2002 BMW 745i. Though the underlying OS the vehicle is running is Windows CE for Automotive, BMW and Siemens VDO wrote all of the software that the car is running: [BMW iDrive press release] [microsoft.com]
I don't think Microsoft should be blamed for problems with the applications written by others on top of their OS, just as no one blames Apple for the problems users have with third party software on their Macs. Furthermore, the on board computer that is running WinCEfA is used to control the radio, tv, navigation system, telephone, etc (commonly referred to a telematics features). The engine management system, electrical, etc. are controlled by another set of computers that also manage emissions, diagnostics, etc.
The 7-Series does have a lot of issues that BMW needs to address, including major failures like this, but most of those are related to the drive-by-wire systems rather than the navigation/entertainment system that's running WinCEfA. It has its own problems, but those are related to confusing controls and an unintuitive interface
Re:An attempt to defend...(I'm not impressed) (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, people develop bad software with Linux as well. The difference is that Linux has no pretenses about it: software development is hard, GUI development is hard, and VisualFoobar doesn't make it much easier. If anything, VisualFoobar lets people who aren't sufficiently skilled do things they shouldn't be doing in the first place.
Re:An attempt to defend...(I'm not impressed) (Score:2)
BMW is not a software shop. I don't know if they hired in programmers for the apps their cars use, but I wouldn't take their difficulty writing software for platform X as an indication of how crappy platform X is.
In light of this discussion, I think I would have to blame BMW for this, and not Microsoft. Even if MS designed a flawed OS for
Re:An attempt to defend...(I'm not impressed) (Score:2)
*tongue in cheek*
/., 'confess' that you are a Microsoft manager, for Mac IE no less and still you get modded up to +5!
/.er and that of the anti-MS and Mac community in particular that is an achievement...
I'm impressed. Not necesarrily by your job-description, I have no way of telling that it is true.
No, I'm impressed because you come onto
In the light of average rabiatness of the average
*/tongue in cheek*
time out (Score:2)
I took the liberty of posting his comment in relation to the BMW story above. And as I said in the title, I'm not impressed by what the MS PM said. Blaming the house fire on the painters may fly in court, but the fact that the foundation cracked, and the breaker box fell off the wall and onto a bucket of open paint, and the paint fire took the house down, is a bit weak, I think.
Great... (Score:2, Funny)
why do they have problems? (Score:5, Interesting)
I underatand why Microsoft's operating systems and word processors and stuff might be buggy: they have to provide legacy support and the hardware configurations can be complex.
However, considering their resources and (I'm assuming) talent... shouldn't they be able to do something like this and have it be pretty sound technology?
I think nowadays even to non-technical people, Microsoft has come to symbolize a product that will work but also let you down in so many ways in terms of quality, security, bugs, price, etc.
From an SPV Owner... (Score:2, Interesting)
Or rather, I've experienced no more bugs than I've had with various Nokia phones I've used in the past.
My only real issues have been:
1. Crap battery life. Just over 3 days standby if you're lucky. (But that said, it's got a backlit screen that's so bright the phone can be used as a torch!)
2. Adding a contact makes a noise when the "Silent"
Re:From an SPV Owner... (Score:2, Interesting)
I got my Smartphone yesterday (Score:4, Informative)
Say what you want about Microsoft, but this time I feel that their 1.0 product is very polished. I've not expirienced any instability, but perhaps I haven't used it enough yet.
Anyway, the user interface is much simpler, more to the point and more usable than competing Smartphone-ish operating systems, as the ones found on Ericsson P800 and Nokia 7650.
It's difficult to describe, really, but it's simpleness - with natural but (in this context) innovative functions as a home button and a back button on the keyboard - really makes it stand out. The browser "home" and "back" metaphor is uses throughout the OS.
I can't say I've often had this experience with a mobile phone (and I'm not sure that it's a good thing, money wise), but this made me _want_ to use it! *Much*. For mail (the Inbox is surprisingly good), for messaging (it has both SMS and MSN Messenger, as well as MMS), for contacts, for appointments, etc.
For years I've carried around both a Palm and a Nokia cell phone, but this is the first hybrid product that's a serious contender to the Palm.
The major gripe is Microsoft's ActiveSync software. I've never been able to make ActiveSync sync successfully with anything. It works the first few times, then it stops wanting to sync altogether. This happened with my HP Jornada 720, later happened with the original Compaq IPaq and now it happens with this phone.
It's a major let down. But the phone in itself is a joy to use.
Re:I got my Smartphone yesterday (Score:3, Insightful)
Pooey.
Sendo (Score:3, Informative)
UK mobile firm snubs Microsoft [bbc.co.uk]
Sendo sues Microsoft [bbc.co.uk]
Microsoft hits back in mobile row [bbc.co.uk]
Fundamental Problem with WinCE (Score:5, Informative)
A solution to this problem is not due until WinCE
Its unfortunate that this problem exists. It has apparently been caused by these PocketPC devices growing in size too quickly for the OS. Talk about growing pains...
Re:Is there anything MS doesn't make? (Score:4, Funny)
It's a little know fact that Microsoft used to make vacuum cleaners. In fact, it was the first product they made that didn't suck.
Ugh, I'm probably gonna regret that tomorrow.
Re:Is there anything MS doesn't make? (Score:2)
From cellular telephones to console video games to Operating systems. Is there anything they don't make?
Yeah. Stable software.
Re:PalmOs (Score:2, Interesting)
The Palm OS itself doesn't really seem to suit the phone, but neither does pocket PC (the MS alternative) - the phones built from them are bricks. You really have to have screens the same size as standard Palms to get some software to work - you can't compromise on the screen size and also want the software.
MS gets their stuff onto phones and in cars as they us
ME == A Disease (Score:2)
Re:Linux security (Score:2, Offtopic)