Sony's PS4 To Have Less Stringent DRM Than Microsoft's Xbox One 509
Tackhead writes "E3 is turning into Bizarro World this year. Sony has not only promised that the PS4 will support used games without an online connection, they trolled the Xbox folks hard with this Official PlayStation Used Game Instructional Video. Compounding the silliness, and hot on the heels of the political firestorm surrounding Donglegate, Microsoft went for rape jokes during their Xbox presentation."
Similarly, onyxruby writes "The Verge covers how Sony has crafted policies explicitly to make the PS4 consumer friendly to the public. They make the case that the PS4 will be superior in nearly every way [to the Xbox Next] by not requiring an Internet connection, not restricting used games, supporting indie developers and selling for $100 cheaper than the Xbox One." And if you're interested in the guts rather than the policies or the politics, Hot Hardware has a comparison of the internals of both of these new offerings.
It is all software, really (Score:5, Insightful)
The real problem is, it can change any time. PS4 can become more stringent, and XBox One could become less (well, in theory).
I'm not sure I trust Sony not to be an asshole regarding DRM. It doesn't have that good a track record. It is a good bet the moment the marketing hype dies down, and the stock holders start pressing, they will tighten their DRM.
Re:It is all software, really (Score:5, Insightful)
If it starts out not requiring any internet connection, and you never update it, it won't get any more restrictive.
It simply won't be given an option by some of us -- my next console will never see a network, because it's not like I trust Sony either. But the next XBox is definitely not something I'll even consider.
Re:It is all software, really (Score:5, Interesting)
They can, and have in the past, packaged OS updates on game disks. Just saying, it's not as easy to avoid updates as you might imagine.
Re:It is all software, really (Score:4, Insightful)
Possibly true, but as long as it doesn't need a network connection *ever*, I'll try to live with that.
Otherwise it, and a steaming pile of shit will be shipped to Sony.
Re:It is all software, really (Score:4, Insightful)
Possibly true, but as long as it doesn't need a network connection *ever*, I'll try to live with that.
Otherwise it, and a steaming pile of shit will be shipped to Sony.
Good, good, so some low-level shipping drone trying to get by on minimum wage will get your steaming pile of shit, question why they still keep this job, and be swiftly replaced by another drone from the cloning vats (they won't run out in your lifetime, nor your kids'!). The shit will be dropped into a bin at the shipping depot, collected, repackaged, and sold to the public at a markup. You WILL wind up buying it (I don't think you fully understand how much Sony owns). Yeah! That'll somehow stick it to those evil, evil executives, I'm sure!
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re: It is all software, really (Score:2)
Re:It is all software, really (Score:5, Insightful)
But do you need a console at all?
I've got a 360 and a PS3 but whilst the PS4 definitely looks the better option now in terms of picking the option that's most consumer friendly I'm finding it hard to justify buying anything at all this time.
Whilst I caved and bought a PS3 in the end last time despite being pissed off at Sony, I've been thinking a little harder if I really should be giving money to one of the biggest funders and controllers behind the MPAA and RIAA and that has a track record of screwing customers this time. I think I'll probably just play more PC games.
I want all the new shiny games but it basically seems now the choice is between getting fucked upfront by Microsoft, or likely getting fucked post purchase by Sony whilst also funding the MPAA/RIAA indirectly as a result.
As someone else said below, I just feel this time round unless something changes that the only option this time around is simply not to play and avoid the console offerings altogether. Perhaps Sony is changing as a company but I think it's way too early to give them the benefit of the doubt, I'd rather let some other chumps be the guinea pigs after having seen what they did to their customers with the PS3. Maybe in two years time if they've dropped support for the MPAA/RIAA and haven't fucked their customers at all, or if Microsoft has backtracked on all it's stupid decisions this time round I will get one of them, but right now I'm having a hard time justifying it.
I'll be honest, I want an XBox One because I like the games line up on it a lot, and I always found the 360 and it's controller a much greater pleasure to use than the PS3s and not much seems to have changed in that respect, but there's only so much I can justify taking as a consumer and they've crossed that line right now.
When the choice is shit, shit, or neither, I'm not sure why people are choosing one of the shits rather than simply neither.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
But this is retarded, if your argument is now simply that they're lying then what makes any other system different? Smartphones, Sony Eye Toy, Samsung Smart TVs, PCs/Laptops with webcams - how do you know there's not a backdoor for all of these things?
You either trust off buttons to do what they say or you don't. If you don't that's not a Kinect specific issue though but an issue with every device with a camera/mic of which there are many millions out there. You really are in tinfoil territory at that point
Re: (Score:2)
What if you absolutely *need* to install the latest system updates for whatever reason just to be able to play some of the latest games? Good luck with that expensive brick; I guess what was out at release time will continue to work at least...
Re:It is all software, really (Score:4, Insightful)
Exactly. Sony shut off network access if you didn't run the "upgrade" to remove OtherOS.
Re: (Score:3)
If you bought a physical disc of a completely offline game, and that disc contained an update that removed OtherOS, you could not play that game unless you installed the update.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
If it starts out not requiring any internet connection, and you never update it, it won't get any more restrictive.
If I recall, there have been PS3 games that required an update to function, and contained that update on disc. So you could reach a point where you can't play any new games without updating.
No one would force you to install those updates, so technically you're right. But I would consider it just as system killing as forcing an update over the Net.
Re: (Score:3)
And, sadly, that will mark the end of my willingness to purchase video consoles from any of these guys.
At this point, it's which company is going to start out acting less like pricks, and which won't require an internet connection at all.
If that's the PS4, and they subsequently try to change the rules, that box will get disconnected, lit on fire, and will be the last console I ever buy. I will not have a gaming box in my house which demands to access the internet at will, because there's nothing in it for
Re:It is all software, really (Score:5, Insightful)
No, because I don't plan on using the network features, the same as I don't now.
My current Xbox 360, my old Wii, and all PS3s (as far as I'm aware) have optional networking, but will still run just fine without it. So comparing it to Netflix is incorrect.
So either they can sell me a gaming console which I can still continue to use totally offline, or I won't be buying them.
I'm perfectly aware that none of these companies gives a damn about me -- but if the message is "shut up and buy it and deal with it" or "fuck off an don't buy it", then it's more than just me who is going to be saying that we're not interested in this, and if they find themselves with unsold units, too damned bad.
They can listen to or ignore their customers as they see fit, but they might find themselves unhappy with the results.
Re:Why though? (Score:5, Interesting)
Because the connection doesn't benefit me, and is mostly used for Microsoft to act like douchebags and collect marketing information, as well as starting out with the premise that I must be pirating therefore I need to be closely monitored.
Last year, when Microsoft rolled out an Xbox update, they started putting ads into the games and the home screen. That was the point at which my XBox was permanently disconnected from the network. I'm not paying to buy the game, and then paying for a fucking advertising channel for them. And I'm sure as hell not giving the right to make arbitrary updates to a device I purchased any time they like just because they've updated the TOS and want to.
Then you are completely missing the point -- the ONE compelling reason isn't piracy, it's privacy, and the right to control how I play games.
Right now I can play, and Microsoft will never know about it. I can go over to a friends with my disk, and Microsoft will never know about it. I can sell the game, and Microsoft will never know it. Now they expect to be able to have a device in my house which can report on what I do (and do you trust Microsoft after they rolled over for the NSA?), and I will need to ask permission to run a game over at a friends. And if I sign in as my account, they now have even more information about me, and can associate it with my friends.
My line of thinking is that right now I can game how and when I choose, without asking Microsoft for fucking permission. Right now I don't need to see their ads. Right now, I know damned well my game console isn't reporting back to the mothership. Right now, Microsoft doesn't need to know who the hell I am and I can live without an XBox Live account.
I don't want this because it's ramming crap down my throat that I don't want. I don't play games on-line, I don't want to buy the extra shit in their store, I don't want to rent movies from Microsoft -- I want to play a fucking video game, randomly and intermittently, and entirely offline. And there is nothing in that scenario which requires an internet connection, so this mostly just forces me to use it 'their' way.
So I don't care if you think I sound like a luddite, because you sound like someone who is too unaware of the issue to understand. So you buy it, you hand over all of your data to Microsoft, you ask for permission to take a game to a friends place. You ask for permission to sell your used games. There's simply no benefit to me to be forced to change how I play video games in order to satisfy Microsoft's business strategy or DRM wishes.
As described, that platform is pretty anti-consumer, and pretty much says "it's our way or the highway". I'm just taking them up on it.
Why are you so willing to have these things dictated to you by Microsoft? Why are you so willing to cede your right of first sale? Why are you willing to give up your privacy? Because you're 19 with ADHD and can't live without something shiny and have no clue? Or because you think these are awesome things that somehow benefit you??
Because other than being a snide little prick who is insinuating I'm both a luddite, incompetent, and living in the past, you've failed to say anything other than "we should totally just do this because I'm incapable of understanding why it's a bad idea". You're about 2 steps behind "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear".
Re: (Score:2)
I don't use the online services for games consoles much (I don't have a live account at all and I haven't logged into PSN since the hack) and iirc pretty much every new game i've put into a current gen console* has demanded a firmware update.
One game even updated the firmware from disc then updated itself (yeah I have a network cable connected, maybe I shouldn't), then went on to demand another firmware update (or maybe it was the other way round, demanding another firmware update and then updating itself).
Re: (Score:2)
It is true for all three of the "last" gen consoles. PS3 and Wii did it unabashedly, but even Xbox360 got in on the act when Catherine came out with a required update on-disc.
Re:It is all software, really (Score:5, Informative)
I specifically declined all attempts to update the system over the network until I had some people over for movies. I was making snacks and my cousin or wife (neither will fess up to it) put the movie we rented in. It said the console required and update and they said ok. By the time I showed up it was too late to do anything about it.
Their whole poking fun at MS and the XO is kind of funny at the moment, but it's really just an attempted to gain back some of the early adopters they alienated with the Other OS removal. If they hadn't removed the Other OS feature I bought and paid for with my PS3, I'd probably be all in on buy a PS4. I hate to sound conceded, but my recommendations when the PS3 first came out was responsible for at least a dozen console sales, I'm sure other early adopter tech geeks can say the same thing. As it stands now I'll make sure everyone I know, knows Sony is an under handed entity that can't be trusted from one day to the next to follow up on something they said the would or wouldn't do. After all it was only weeks before the April 1st update that removed of the Other OS they said they wouldn't consider removing it.
Point being once they have your money, they don't really care how they screw you over, but they'll find a way.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:It is all software, really (Score:5, Interesting)
Their move right now is to capitalize on the bad press Microsoft has received. They're not trying to offset anything, they're trying (and largely succeeding) to win out big time on how terrible the Xbone sounds by giving people exactly what they've always had and wanted to keep. The slides about used games and phoning home were likely added at the last minute as a gigantic jab at Microsoft and wouldn't have made an appearance otherwise.
Re:It is all software, really (Score:5, Insightful)
They don't give a damn about a few angered /. posters who swore off Sony because they couldn't run Linux on their game consoles.
They are, however, KEENLY aware of the legions of users who stopped buying shit from their online store and basically deserted the console following their leaving the customers' credit card data right in the fucking open.
My PS3 is a standing blu-ray player that isn't allowed to have a network connection these days for good reason, and I suspect Sony realized that there's no chance in hell of my buying their box if it required a net connection knowing their track record on the subject.
Re:It is all software, really (Score:5, Interesting)
Time for a reality check: the incredibly vast majority of people don't give a shit about Other OS
That is true, but that is not the only functionality they removed. Also removed was backwards compatibility for PS2 games which was a HUGE selling point for the PS3 Considering the install base and game sales of the PS2.
Sony can say whatever they want now, it simply doesn't matter. They have lost a trust that you simply can't earn back overnight. Then put the data breach on top of that and of course they have to do or say whatever they can to generate interest.
I am confident in saying that more than 0.001% of their user base remembers these things.
Re:It is all software, really (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It is all software, really (Score:4, Informative)
They didn't remove the PS2 backwards compatibility from PS3s that had it (unlike OtherOS); they simply removed it from future versions of the PS3. Big difference there.
That is true. YMMV but in my case, over time (for reasons I don't fully understand) is that I found I could successfully play fewer and fewer PS2 titles (my stepsons had a STACK of PS2 games, thus the decision to go PS3 rather than Xbox360) over time. While I can't prove it was firmware updates, the only thing that changed was the firmware.
Also note that in some cases, if you had a unit with the hardware emulation but the unit broke (even under warranty) you could end up with a replacement unit that didn't have it. So even that was taken away from some people.
The primary point being that for me personally after my experience with the PS3 There will never be a PS4 in my home. And yes I realize that Sony doesn't give a crap what I think...I can assure you that over the years they have driven that point home.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Time for a reality check: the incredibly vast majority of people don't give a shit about Other OS.
Time for a reality check: the people who think that this doesn't matter to them are sadly deluded because if it happened to the Linux users it could happen to any other group as well; Sony can and will yank the feature that you care about, and they will not get in trouble for it.
Re: (Score:2)
If it starts out not requiring any internet connection, and you never update it, it won't get any more restrictive.
It simply won't be given an option by some of us -- my next console will never see a network, because it's not like I trust Sony either. But the next XBox is definitely not something I'll even consider.
That will work until you can't run any new games because they start requiring at least a certain version of the system software.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, either I decide I won't buy any of them now, or after they've done something like that, I'll make the same decision.
If they can update it without a network connection, fine. But if they leave me with something unusable, then I will be forced to conclude they're all assholes and withdraw my money. (Well, I know they're assholes now, but now I can play games with no internet connection)
But I don't play on-line games, don't want to participate in the in-game economy, and refuse to be monitored by a vid
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Since early adopters are more savvy, Sony has every reason to tout their lack of DRM compared to the Bone, for now. Will their DRM be
Re:It is all software, really (Score:5, Insightful)
Not sure if disc-enforced updates apply to this one or not.
They did, that's how my PS3 was updated.
Newer bluRay movies require system updates. I wasn't in the room when my wife or cousin put the rented bluRay movie in so I don't know if it had to go out to download the update or if it just ran off the disk. I had turned off the wireless on my PS3 so I don't know if someone reconnected it for the update or if it just came on the disk. So it's Keep the Other OS feature and forget about everything else you bought the console to do or ditch the Other OS feature.
More reasons, as if we needed them, to pirate movies. Even paying to rent them can have negative effects on your hardware, the pirated version of the movie we watched wouldn't have forced an update to my console.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
...without asking you whether you want them installed, or telling you beforehand that they'll do so.
What? You don't want the latest firmware? Why, trying to hide something? Are you one of those pesky pirates? Because there is no other reason not to obey your Sony Overlord.
Then do what I did. (Score:5, Insightful)
I got an XBox 360 a few months ago. My first one. I also got 7 games from the used/discount bin and paid less than $50 for them, combined. The system has provided me with hundreds of hours of fun so far, and I know there are lots of other great games awaiting me.
You can wait one, two, even three years and see which way the wind blows for the next generation of consoles. Is the PS4 getting better titles? Is the XBox One as prone to hardware failures as the 360? Did Sony remove features or add DRM to used games? Is either console molesting children?
Wait and see, and your decision will be much easier. Your wallet will also thank you.
In the meantime, play on the current systems.
Re:Then do what I did. (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing is for sure. All the hardcore gamers will buy the PS4 because it will almost certainly allow you to use any USB controller you like. The 360 had DRM in the controllers to block unlicensed 3rd party hardware, meaning the only choice for someone wanting a proper arcade joystick or different gamepad was a MadCatz piece of shit.
Eventually people found a particular MadCatz joystick that had a common ground PCB they could hack into their custom sticks, but it's a really crappy way of doing things. MS killed support for some older MadCatz hardware in an update and their response to complaints was "if it's in warranty return it to the retailer", even though the hardware hadn't been produced for over two years. People in the UK could still get a partial refund but people in the US were SOL.
Re:It is all software, really (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It is all software, really (Score:5, Informative)
Sadly, that's at least once per day. The Xbox 1 is going to require to phone home once every 24 hours according to what they've been saying.
So I'm hoping the option to buy the PS4 and never connect it to a network will be viable.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Why is there money to be made by making potential customers more angry at you? Sony got smacked throughout the PS3 because they were king of the hill. Maybe they as a group have actually learned that being smug ass-holes to their customers does not convert to higher sales. They LEARN, well one would hope.
Personally, I won't even consider a console this gen unless it works as an amazing media screener ala xbmc without the crap storm which is DLNA, supports simple 'open' marketplaces that actually support ind
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I wouldn't consider buying any of the new consoles. Giving money to these companies would be supporting DRM and closed platforms, and I just couldn't feel good about that.
Re: (Score:2)
So might get worse is some how worse than already terrible?
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure I trust Sony not to be an asshole regarding DRM. It doesn't have that good a track record,
I *AM* trusting sony *TO BE* an asshole. See PS3 Other OS.
Re: (Score:2)
While true, it's also probably moot. The PS4 reveal is definitely Sony trying to put all the nails in the XBone coffin, and for the non-techie console gamers this should pretty much do it. Even if Sony changes things later, it'll probably be too late for the XBone.
Re: (Score:2)
it'll probably be too late for the XBone.
Eh, so far its basically exactly the reverse as the last gen was. Watching the xbox presentation was like going back in time and watching the PS3 reveal (only with more RRRRIDGE RRRACER! and less attacking the weak point for massive damage) The PS3 managed to stage a comeback from that, I'm sure Microsoft can too.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: It is all software, really (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I'm not sure I trust Sony not to be an asshole regarding DRM. It doesn't have that good a track record. It is a good bet the moment the marketing hype dies down, and the stock holders start pressing, they will tighten their DRM.
Sony is currently seriously considering a stockholder-driven proposal to spin off its music and film divisions [reuters.com]. If this was done, it would mean that Sony the consumer electronics company would no longer have the conflict of interest that currently causes it to push DRM on equipment
Re:Where is the INFO! (Score:5, Informative)
Uh the info was in the presentation. On giant slides. And in the words that were spoken. Not sure how much more clear you want it. Sony specifically said "does not need to check in every 24 hours" "you can play offline" "eye camera is $59" The details are there clear as day check any gaming news site. Want examples of those? Joystiq and Kotaku are two big ones.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
All I seem to find on this PS4 DRM, is vague hints that it is better... Where are the specifics? Xbox said it will need to phone home every 24 hours, Sony? Who knows. How hard is it to give us details that we can come after them when the whole hype of DRM is over?
they gave all the details: there is no drm. there is no region locking. there is no internet connection requirement.
And $100 cheaper? How much will the Eye cost if one wants it?
$60, they detailed everything.
you'd do much better by trying to actually read the stuff sony has given out and then complain.
Re: (Score:2)
EA, of course, is canceling the online pass thing.
Re: (Score:2)
When you have stock holders putting pressure to "create" revenue streams out of bullshit DRM practices, you KNOW you're doing something wrong.
The problem is that Sony, as currently constituted, is a giant conglomerate that contains both an "entertainment" division (movie studio and music publisher) and a consumer electronics division. This means that the executives, full of buzzwords from their MBA classes, will push for "synergy" between the branches – and that means DRM shoved down our throats to
This MS fanboy is looking hard at Sony this time (Score:5, Interesting)
So far, it looks like the PS4 hardware is better, it's got Elder Scrolls Online as an exclusive (a big deal for me), there is less of that authentication/DRM drama (amazing coming from Sony, who have always been the worst control freaks in the past), and it's $100 cheaper too!
I've been a fan of Xbox since the Xbox 1. But MS is making all the wrong moves on the Xbox One. And looks like Sony is making all the right ones on the PS4. I may have to cross the line on this next generation.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Console exclusive.
Re:This MS fanboy is looking hard at Sony this tim (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
I got that from the PC Magazine article [pcmag.com] which said:
Other games of note include Bungie and Activision's Destiny, Ubisoft's Watch Dogs and Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag, 2K Games's NBA 2K14 (complete with video appearance by Lebron James and Lebron James's PS4-rendered digital simulacra), and Bethesda Softworks and Zenimax Online Studios' The Elder Scrolls Online, which will get a PS4-exclusive console port.
But it looks like they may have meant an exclusive ESO beta, from subsequent reports.
Re:This MS fanboy is looking hard at Sony this tim (Score:5, Informative)
...there is less of that authentication/DRM drama
Out of the frying pan and into the fire. After Sony updated the PS3 so that is won't play video files it suspects are pirated, it would be foolish to buy more from them thinking they have better DRM policy. Remember, they can update the PS4 ANYTIME to withdraw anything they say now, and you know they will.
Re: (Score:2)
There are some AAA titles that won't come to PC for a while, but you can console yourself with slightly older good games that are a fraction of the price that you'd pay for consoles.
Sure, they promise all this now. (Score:4, Insightful)
But they'll just take it all away in a year or two with a mandatory software update, citing fears of piracy.
Again.
Re: (Score:3)
The difference between Sony removing the "Other OS" option on the PS3 and patching the PS4 to add mandatory internet connection or remove the ability to share/sell games is that the former only affected a tiny minority of owners of the PS3 (far less than the number who complain about it).
But if Sony made a patch to make the console match the XBox One, it would affect 100% of their customers. Every. Single. Gamer! That would be a huge PR nightmare.
A more likely scenario would be that Sony will take the long
Re:Sure, they promise all this now. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wouldn't a mandatory software update require an internet connection? Can't really mandate an update if I don't connect it to the network.
New games could have a firmware update embedded and force you to update the system in order to play it (the Wii did something similar, although it just installed middleware -- think drivers and extra APIs -- that the game can use to interact with the hardware). The online store can refuse connections if you don't have the update, matchmaking servers can refuse service. It might encourage you to pair up your phone or tablet to it for some neat feature, and enable tethering. New Blu-Ray movies can be required, as part of the terms to license the logo and compatibility marks, to have a few tracks set aside for just-in-case-he-runs-it-on-a-PS4. The damn thing isn't even out yet, there could yet be some kind self-expiring key with a requirement to phone home once a year that we don't know about yet.
Hell, with how advanced consoles are these days, they could even embed firmware updates in hardware accessories. Buy a new controller? Plug it in, it mounts the internal flash, updates the system.
Sure this is conjecture and it might be possible for a dedicated person to avoid updating, but they're going to be working off a reduced feature set until they do.
As much as Sony wants to play up the idea that the PS4 is an island onto itself so you can enjoy entertainment on your terms, those days are long gone. Ultimately, as with any closed source anything, you have no way to know what it wants to do and, ultimately, you don't own the hardware.
Re: (Score:3)
I'd love to say "in theory, yes", but not even in theory. In theory, an update could come bundled with a game. Or, as has been pointed out elsewhere, in add-on hardware.
The problem runs much deeper, though. Should Sony decide to pull their usual bait-and-switch scheme, you can't even sensibly slip in anything you didn't "screen" first, since you can't even be sure that a crappy movie doesn't fuck up your hardware with an update. And it's by far not a given that it would ask you before updating (of course, j
Re: (Score:3)
maybe they've finally learned after all of the rootkit, DRM, copyright violation, and OtherOS scandals, not to mention backlash against them for their trying to foist inferior proprietary memory formats upon everyone.
Yay, less awful? (Score:2, Insightful)
When faced with two evils, the best choice is not to play the game.
Microsoft's wierd motives (Score:4, Informative)
For decades now Microsoft has been bizarrely obsessed with being a media distribution company. I can't even count the number of failed "set top" box initiatives and purchased properties (Like webtv) they've made along the way. Also there was that media center thing that sucked.
And now they've got the XBone, where they turn the 'ha ha fuck you consumer' up to 11 in an attempt do do what? Prove that they're the biggest whore so they can strike the best deals with content producers? "Hey look! We've done away with that pesky right of first sale for retail games! What else do you want us to do?"
Sigh. And just today I see that there's a new Panzer Dragon game, and a rogue-like from superbrothers that are XBone console exclusives.
Shit.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
Microsoft IS a media distribution company. One of the largest in the world in fact. The primary Television app in the world right now is Media room: http://www.microsoft.com/mediaroom/you/ [microsoft.com]
AT&T Uverse uses it, more and more cable providers are using it. Set-top boxes all over use it and they are starting to build the software into TVs. It may very well be that Microsoft doesn't need to worry about the PS4 at all, because if the XB1 hooks directly up to your cable provider and can stream all the movies/sh
It's funny because... (Score:3, Insightful)
It's funny because at launch you could install Linux on the PS3.
Re:It's funny because... (Score:5, Insightful)
True, but the only reason they removed it is because people used it to pirate games.
So, your reasoning is that if Sony modifies their supposedly more open system to make it more closed after launch to fight piracy,
then we should not worry about Sony modifying their supposedly more open system to make it more closed after launch to fight piracy?
Well, A.C. at least you have maintained the reputation of your noble collective name.
Very nice (Score:3)
* Not for the value, but my old games are still fun and if I keep them I don't have to re-buy them or wait for the stars to align for games like Earthbound to come out intact
Re: (Score:3)
I was going to build a steam box if this didn't happen. I collect consoles and games*, and I'm not sure if I want the Xbox One because it's not guaranteed I'll be able to play my games 10 years down the road.
Question: Do PC makers have a pro-DRM policy or prevent used game sales? If not, then why do many PC games have DRM? Further, what prevents the DRM from being added to any game on the PS4 by the very same publishers who insist on it for the PC market?
It is the difference between: We don't provide a standardized DRM framework, and All the games have DRM but we didn't put it there.
It's nice to the the indie support though. I might consider purchasing the thing were I not boycotting this corrupt compan
It's funny (Score:5, Interesting)
"You have to pay for online access for the PS4 now as well!" As though that's actually a supportive argument for the Xbox One.
"I'm glad there is always-on DRM so that I can download and play my games on other people's consoles while signed in!" As though MS is incapable of making the 24 connection requirement only necessary for digitally purchased games, and allow you to only play disc-purchased games when you have the disc.
"I always have internet, so this isn't a problem for me!" As though Xbox Live has never been down for several days at a time before (or been weird about not letting large numbers of people sign in while others have no problem)
I've never been a Sony fan, and I still don't know if I can trust the company that pulled the rootkit scandal. What I do know is that I am absolutely not going to a be a Microsoft customer this next generation. I will probably get a Wii U to play 1st party Nintendo games, and do the rest of my gaming on PC. Sony still has a shot at convincing me to get a PS4, but Microsoft has already lost me.
Re: (Score:2)
PS4 requires pay for online access?
That means I will be sitting out this generation.
Re:It's funny (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, I am fine with that, I have no interest at all in multiplayer.
I have no need to have my heritage insulted or hear about the sexual relations 10 year olds are claiming to have had with my mother.
Re: (Score:2)
Online multiplayer, yes.
You can still use applications such as Netflix etc without paying.
Re: (Score:2)
I will probably get a Wii U to play 1st party Nintendo games...
ms and sony are probably targeting a different demographic than the one you belong to, if a wii is going to satisfy your console gaming needs.
That decides it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
But the PS4 is still closed and will more than likely have the usual draconian restrictions that pretty much all the consoles have. Better to not buy any of them at all.
Re: (Score:2)
It's a PC (x86 CPU), I doubt it gonna be long before it's hacked to oblivion and you can unlock it all you want.
Re:That decides it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Agreed. Sony has a long way to go to climb out of the hole they dug for themselves over the last decade+ of customer abuse and outright criminal activity (the kind that directly impacts people, too: rootkits on PCs). This announcement has moved them a tiny bit upward in my books, but only time will tell. I'm happy to reward a company that changes its tune for the better, but Sony has to demonstrate a lot of good will before I'll give them another chance.
I am done with consoles (Score:3, Insightful)
As a casual gamer, the 360 will be my last console...I will not ask the mothership for permission to use a friends game, sell or buy a used game or whatever...
both platforms go way too far, I kinda enjoy games but I can live without them...
Re: (Score:2)
That's great and all... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
zero drm? all others i understand a pc can provide.
How about with the Publishers? (Score:2, Informative)
Sony are saying all the right things. (Score:3)
It would be foolish not to consider the possibility of this only just lip service.
DRM aside... (Score:5, Funny)
The real targeted attack ads should..... (Score:2)
Internet Connection Required makes NO sense (Score:2)
Thoughts on the E3 presentations (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft: Surprisingly good on the games front, with Forza looking fairly neat and a good number of titles to announce. Elsewhere it felt like damage limitation. They'd realised by now that people hate the call-home and used-game restrictions and were desperately trying to show that it wasn't as bad as people had assumed. Might have been more convincing if it felt like they even understood it themselves.
Sony: Actually, a surprisingly glitchy presentation in many ways. Some of the game demonstrations were pretty poor and unpolished. However, none of that matters. They picked the wrong music for the section of their presentation that talked about the PS4 itself; they should have gone with The Rains of Castamere. Sony's presentation was the Red Wedding with Microsoft as the Starks. And oh my word it worked. They've been trolling Microsoft into going down the anti-consumer route for more than a year, hinting that they were going to do the same. Yesterday, they sprang the trap. They clearly enjoyed their own presentation and, to be fair, they deserved to.
Nintendo: The weakest of the three. Their big announcement was... delays! Lots of delays. A very thin holiday season, supported by a 3d Mario Game that looks like a rushed, resolution upscaled DS game, a remake of a decade-old Zelda game and a Donkey Kong that nobody seemed to be particularly excited about. Things are a little better over on the 3DS front, but Nintendo were sending off a definite message that they're struggling to keep up.
And predictions based on that?
Sony probably have the Christmas season sewn up. Barring an RROD-level fiasco, they'll go into the first few weeks of sales with a massive stock of consumer enthusiasm. This is a very different Sony to the one that did the cack-handed launch of the PS3.
Microsoft need an urgent rethink. Their current strategy looks set to see them take a significant but nevertheless declining share of the US market (consumer loyalty being a significant factor), but completely abandon Asia and - more shockingly - probably get annihilated in Europe and the emerging markets as well. They've invested a shitload of money to get the marketshare they currently have in the home console market, so don't rule them out yet, but unless they revisit some of their fundamentals over the next 6 months, they could face disaster.
And I suspect Nintendo may already be starting to plan for a post-Wii-U world, where they focus on the handheld business going forward while they decide whether to have another throw of the dice in the home console market or go another direction. The speculation had been that Nintendo's big throw of the dice would be this Christmas, when they'd throw game releases and massive price cuts at the Wii-U to snatch the rug out from under the XB-One and the PS4. In theory they could still do the price cuts, but it's clear now that they don't have the games lineup in position to make that strategy work.
So this is what it's come to (Score:5, Insightful)
It's Bill Hicks with the puppets all over again! (Score:3)
"No, the locked-down PC-in-a-box on the right is obviously superior!"
And to many of the rest of us, these nearly identical (both inside and out) boxes look to have the same sort of power as the gaming rigs we built two years ago. A lot of people still haven't gone HD, and only a small fraction of gamers have gone much beyond 1080p. 1080p looks pretty good on most screen sizes, but for 99% of the consumer market, there's no point going past that because the display hardware in people's houses can't display it. So once you've got hardware that'll do 1080p, you'd better have something much cleverer as a selling-point in your game, because the last gasp of "Ooh, teh shiniez!" as a major selling point was probably about three years ago.
And so far, all they seem to have are pre-rendered demos that show off the shiniez, and Sony claiming to suck slightly less terribly than Microsoft.
Really? Is that it? You want $500 out of me in the middle of a recession, when I already have a 360, PS3 and a gaming PC? You're really going to have to try a lot harder than that.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft went for rape jokes during their Xbox presentation.
That's what passes for a rape joke nowadays?
"How many feminists does it take to change a light bulb?"
"THAT'S NOT FUNNY"
Re: (Score:2)
That's "how many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb"
Gee, way to butcher a joke.
Re:Joke (Score:4, Insightful)
Chalk it up to people being outraged because they want to be outraged. Personally, it reminded me of a trip to the dentist. "It'll all be over soon," they say, while gouging my teeth and gums.
Of course, now I can't stop thinking of how that can be a metaphor.
Re: (Score:2)
Give 'em a year or two, they' eventually come to their senses.
They always did.
Re: (Score:2)
I expect gaming on cheaper android based devices to catch up and even take over within this generation.
I've been making that prediction as well.