Harry Reid Pushes Nevada As "Saudi Arabia of Geothermal Energy" 369
An anonymous reader writes "Of all the 'mainstream' forms of renewable energy, it seems that geothermal power is always left in the shadows compared to solar and wind power. However, that looks set to change with news that the US Department of Energy will fund geothermal projects in northwestern Nevada and southeast Oregon. With funds from the American Reinvestment and Recovery Act, the DOE has stated a 'conditional commitment' to provide a partial guarantee for a rumored $98.5 million loan to the Nevada Geothermal Power Company (NGP). According to US Senator Harry Reid, 'Northern Nevada is the Saudi Arabia of geothermal energy.'"
According to US Senator Harry Reid ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... (Score:5, Interesting)
It makes me wonder, if Senators bring in pork to their state to get re-elected, do you think there would be more pork in general if we repealed the direct election of senators, which some claim would give states more say in the Federal government? As is I think the fact that so much party money is on the line to keep representatives 'pure', which greatly distorts the idea of local elections.
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That's an interesting argument and I'm hearing more and more about that coming out of the houston area. Do you have any links you'd like to share?
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Sorry about that. O_o
Lying Senator (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Lying Senator (Score:4, Funny)
Or you could end up with a bad movie where drilling results in the volcano going off... Hmmm.... :)
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Wouldn't senators then be forced to take actions that benefit those in the house, thereby corrupting the system in a different way?
"You voted against all my bills! I'm not voting for you!"
Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... (Score:5, Insightful)
The senators would be appointed by their state legislatures in a manner that's up to them -- in the 19th century the state legislature would hold a vote, or the governor would make an appointment subject to state senate advice and consent, or whatever.
The problem with this approach was that it made senate seats a form of patronage for governors and state political machines, and while the people appointed might have been worthy there was zero democratic accountability, and senate appointment was a notoriously corrupt institution -- take the recent Rod Blagojevich nonsense and imagine it were the norm. Eliminating the direct election of senators in order to control "pork" or earmarks, which are themselves only about 2% of the federal budget, and are at least as big a problem with House members, is a pretty extreme solution.
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That, and considering how the vast majority of states are financially in the red these days
A small minority of states are in the red. Most states are fiscally responsible and live within their means. Some states even have constitutional requirements to maintain balanced budgets.
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I'm sorry I didn't clarify my position originally more. I am not at all in favor of going back to that system, as I agree that it would be even more incentive to play the "everything for my state" game. Personally, I think we should have term limits, but that will never fly as Congress itself would have to approve it. I also don't like having committee chair status based on Senate seniority, it gives even more incentive to stick with the incumbent.
Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... (Score:4, Informative)
Why should I want more democracy? There's nothing particularly sacred about democracy. That's the point of the Senate, the founders recognized that mobs can get carried away by stupid ideas, and that's why the Senate was intended to act as a buffer to the House of Representatives. Now, we effectively have two Houses of Representatives, and what's the point of that?
Further, consider the priorities of an elected official. He gets into office by whoring for votes. His priority is the next election, not how his actions will affect the country decades into the future.
The point is, elected officials and unelected officials have different incentives. That's why the government was designed to have components of both.
I actually think it was a mistake to allow direct election of the president. It causes people to concentrate on the election of one politician on whom they have little influence, rather than their local representatives where the views of a relatively few people actually can have significant influence.
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If you want more democracy, you want the Senate to make the filibuster extremely rare, instead of the current Republican practice of filibustering every single Democratic bill, which changes the Constitution's majority (50%+1) requirement into a forced supermajority of 60+.
Why is a majority threshold "more" democratic than a supermajority theshold?
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And/Or; how much of that 98 million is directed into his golden parachute fund for getting the loan?
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I think he means the funds going into his golden parachute that will not
be on the table, but under the table.
There are private dinners and payoffs are not made with checks
or credit cards, untraceable unofficial money.
Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... (Score:4, Informative)
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In addition to floating on the vast sea of crude that makes them our bestest ever buddies, for as long as they are willing to sell, Saudi Arabia is home to some... aggressively retro sentiments.
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You say "eliminating the US Department of Education" like it is a bad thing!
I'm all for it.
I'm for pulling out of the United Nations.
I'm for getting rid of Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare.
Floridation of water? Debatable. But, a local gov't issue.
Alcohol? Local issue.
Global warming? It IS still being debated. And then, not proven that it is man-made warming.
Drilling for oil? Please, lets! I am for keeping dollars in the USA, instead of being sent overseas.
Really, the States Rights vs. Federal Rights i
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And of course, you are also making a lot of shit up. I can't believe anyone modded
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His opponent is on record for a variety of...odd positions: eliminating the US Department of Education, pulling out of the United Nations, getting rid of Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare; wants to protect our purity of essence and precious bodily fluids by opposing fluoridation of water, similarly wants to get rid of alcohol, thinks global warming is a hoax and is for drilling for oil here, there, everywhere. Is also the nutter who thinks overthrowing the duly elected government of the United States via a violent revolution is a good idea
So, that's what he means with Nevada being Saudi Arabia!
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All US public schools must spend their entire budget each year, and cannot store money for future renovations, et al.. This is why when schools need to improve their fascilities, it ALWAYS comes as a bond issue. The reason for this "Cannot save money, MUST spend all of the yearly budget!" is presumably to curb imbezzlement of education dollars
This is the same for all government organisations and its got nothing to do with embezzlement - its simply the idea that you are given a bucket of money to spend on education and its your job as an administrator to take that money and turn it into education. Now the idea that this hinders capital projects it quite frankly retarded. How about instead of paying it up front from one year's budget they pay it over several years from current and future budgets. What you say? That is how its actually done? No sh
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You *really*
Really
Really
Don't know about Reid's opponents this time around do you?
Sharron Angle is fucking crazy. [huffingtonpost.com]
Opposes fluoridation, the UN and the Department of Education.
She's got a lot of tough questions ahead of her.
Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... (Score:5, Informative)
How about having her describe her opinions instead instead: http://www.sharronangle.com/issues/ [sharronangle.com]
Or how about the opinion of the people of Nevada: Angle: 50% Reid: 39% [rasmussenreports.com]
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As for the social security, it's an unsustainable system that will have to be reformed soon anyway. She is just being honest about it. And no she does not want to abolish it over night, she wants to phase it out for people entering the workforce
Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... (Score:5, Insightful)
All that indicates to me is that she supports checks and balances between state and local governance, not that she opposes fluoridation.
Does that mean she's philosophically opposed to education and safety nets for the poor, or -- more likely, I think -- does it mean she supports decentralization of government (i.e., where the state or local governments would control education and provide social safety nets)?
I don't know anything about this person beyond what I've just read in this thread (and not being a citizen of Nevada, I don't particularly care), but she sounds merely like a supporter of [federalism|checks and balances|states' rights], not a crackpot.
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Maybe. As we all learned a few years ago, when a reporter asks a politician what newspapers or magazines they read [wikipedia.org], it's a vicious partisan attack. Angle and that unaccredited quack [talkingpointsmemo.com] Rand Paul, after some initial missteps, are never going to appear on a news program again, and will simply use the internet and the odd Fox News interview to do their public relations.
Well, that settles it (Score:5, Funny)
"Sharron Angle is fucking crazy. [huffingtonpost.com]"
Well, if the HuffPuff said it, then I'm sold.
BTW, if you think Sharon Angle is crazy for wanting to eliminate several departments in the Federal government, and phase out Social Security as it currently exists, then you're going to be mighty shocked at how many crazy people there are.
Yes, I am (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh, believe me - I AM shocked by how many crazy people there are.
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The Huffington Post, also referred to as HuffPo[2] or HuffPost[3], is a liberal/progressive American news website and aggregated blog founded by Arianna Huffington, Kenneth Lerer, and Jonah Peretti, featuring various news sources and columnists.[4] The site offers coverage of politics, media, business, entertainment, living, style, the green movement, world news, and comedy, and is a top destination for news, blogs, and original content. The Huffington Post was launched on May 9, 2005, as a commentary outlet and alternative to conservative news websites like the Drudge Report.[5]
Don't be a fucking hypocrite. If your going to provide a link, try to find an unbiased link. IN other words, your link is bull shit. Not a valid source. Next
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It doesn't mean the link is bad. You just need to check references.
in fact, Angle said she believed most fluoride used in water supplies could contain "lead, arsenic, [or] mercury." All of which is crazy talk.
She supports making alcohol consumoption illegal.
She thinks it's her job to 'protect' people. which from my reading means 'make them behave the way my belief dictates.:
“I would tell you that I have the same feelings about legalizing marijuana, not medical marijuana, but just legalizing marijuana,
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What, you mean it isn't anymore? Last time I was there (in '87 or so) the locals were packing to drive out to the desert to witness an underground nuclear test. Those people who live in Nevada, they're quite special from what I saw. Perhaps related to Floridians.
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And nuclear waste is warm right? We keep it in cooling ponds. This seems like two things that go great together. You got your nuclear waste into my geothermal power installation, no you got your geothermal power installation into my nuclear waste.
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Agreed. I'm just tired of politicians. ALL of them.
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The ban changed nothing (Score:3, Informative)
Upcoming technologies such as accelerated thorium on the other hand are repo
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And water that is 100% free of bacteria. Oh that? We don't know what THAT is, isn't he kinda cute? But the radiation killed all the bacteria...OH MY GOD WHA
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Some bacteria can survive quite high levels of radiation, in fact, thrive even.
Oh really [foodtechservice.com]?
Not at the doses I am thinking about...
Re:According to US Senator Harry Reid ... (Score:4, Informative)
Ya really. [usuhs.mil]
Deinococcus radioduransshrugs of acute doses of 10000 Gy and thrives under a constant 60 Gy/h. That's way beyond what your puny machine will offer...
Las Vegas... (Score:5, Funny)
Las Vegas is the Saudi Arabia of prostitution, booze, gambling, and insane energy use.
It looks like Harry Reid is trying to use the Saudia Arabia of geothermanl energy to power the Saudi Arabia of prostitution.
As long as nobody tries to put a veil on the hookers this plan sounds good to me.
Re:Las Vegas... (Score:5, Funny)
"Forget your Saudi Arabia! I'm gonna make my own! With hookers! And blackjack! In fact, forget the energy! Aaw, screw the whole thing!"
- Harry Reid
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Las Vegas is the Saudi Arabia of prostitution, booze, gambling, and insane energy use.
Prostitution is illegal in Clark County, NV, where Las Vegas is located. You are completely correct on the booze, gambling and insane energy use, however.
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Prostitution is illegal in Clark County, NV, where Las Vegas is located.
And yet there are billboard advertisements for it in Vegas.
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Just because it's "illegal" in Clark Co., doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
True enough, but you could say that about any large American city. In any case, because prostitution is not legal in Clark County, the true Saudi Arabia of prostitution would be either Pahrump or Elko, Nevada, both places where it is legal.
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They have plenty of sun, lots of hot rocks, coal is cheap(if you don't mind huffing mercury and fly ash); but Nevada doesn't even have a convenient body of salt water to desalinate, much less enough of the fresh stuff.
Las Vegas' exoticism will certainly be increased if everybody is running around in stillsuits and shouting "Long live the hookers!" and "The Dice Must Flow!"; but it'll be pretty much all downsides from there(remember,
The problem with geothermal (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The problem with geothermal (Score:4, Funny)
Federally funded Nevada geothermal plant sponsored by Harry Reid triggers massive earthquakes in San Francisco and causes the giant Yellowstone caldera in Wyoming to rise another 50 ft.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/15/swiss-geothermal-power-earthquakes-basel [guardian.co.uk]
If the Yellowstone Caldera goes... (Score:4, Insightful)
Earthquakes in San Fransisco will be the least of your worries. The last eruption of the Yellowstone caldera 640,000 years ago
shot 240 cubic miles of rock and dust into the sky.
Re:If the Yellowstone Caldera goes... (Score:5, Funny)
The last eruption of the Yellowstone caldera 640,000 years ago
Wow, I saw you had a low ID, but I never realized they went back that far!
Re:The problem with geothermal (Score:4, Interesting)
Federally funded Nevada geothermal plant sponsored by Harry Reid triggers ... earthquakes ...
Not completely a joke.
High pressure injection of liquids into faults makes them act as hydraulic jacks with piston cross-sections measurable in square miles, pushing the faults open. If the faults are under even slight crosswise stress that cause earthquakes. (This was first discovered in Denver when the Rocky Mountain Arsenal used a deep injection well to attempt disposing of chemical warfare waste, later researched and documented.)
Doing it with a liquid that can boil when the rocks are hot means you have less control over the process once the liquid is in place and being expanded by the heat. (IMHO there's also a possibility of activating a volcano.)
While setting off quakes in northwestern Nevada probably won't bother the faults in San Francisco or Yosemite, it wouldn't be all that friendly to the people within a few tens of miles of the site.
Re:The problem with geothermal (Score:5, Interesting)
Regardless, I am very optimistic about geothermal for meeting the energy needs of low population density areas. On top of that, geothermal heat pumps [wikipedia.org] for heating and air conditioning, while not an energy source, improve efficiency so much that in both hot and cold regions of the country, they will typically pay for themselves in 3-7 years.
Re:The problem with geothermal (Score:4, Informative)
it takes time for the surrounding rock to heat up the cool spot you've created. This places a natural limit on the rate you can extract heat energy from a geothermal well
While I'm no expert in the field I daresay that there's a "natural limit" to anything, including the energy produced from an oil burning plant. Surely the output of the plant is an engineering issue, and it's simply a matter of design.
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Re:The problem with geothermal (Score:5, Informative)
The problem with geothermal is that after you extract the heat from the rocks, it takes time for the surrounding rock to heat up the cool spot you've created.
The problem with geothermal power is cleaning up the toxic waste.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: geothermal power is a total failure on all levels. I live within shootin' distance of The Geysers, the most geothermally active region known to exist on Earth. We have a geothermal plant here which is continually over budget and under-producing. The turbine blades are built by Halliburton, which is a disaster in itself. After they have been in service for a certain period of time, they must be cleaned of buildup of toxics like Arsenic which are released from the vent along with the steam. Most of the hot springs in town have measurable Arsenic content. This is simply pressure-washed off, and the slurry stored in open pits for evaporation. After this process has been repeated a sufficient number of times the pit is covered over and the walls raised. They used to put it in drums and bury them in a field on one of the roads out of town [google.com] but the drums started leaking and cows were being born with two heads and that sort of thing, so they "cleaned it up". Oh, sorry, THEY didn't clean it up, we did. It was a superfund site; we still have one of those [epa.gov] operating in town, for similar compounds. The "solution" was to dig it all up, put in a rubber liner, and bury it again.
There are other types of geothermal power options, like heat pipes, but all you have to know about them is that they are terribly inefficient (not that any geothermal plant in the world is producing any amazing amount of power) and they don't last, just like the turbine blades in our example. You're always digging things up and replacing them, which is terribly impractical. The simple truth is that solar panels could repay the energy cost of production in under seven years back in the 1970s and if all the money spent on geothermal plants was spent on even PV solar plants we would have produced a lot more power for the same amount of money.
Anyone promoting Geothermal power for low environmental impact is either ignorant or trolling.
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The problem with Geothermal is that its *not* always on. That is, its always on until it isn't, at all. Earthquakes (which Nevada is prone to, not as much as socal but we get them plenty!) and other movement of the earth can cause whole geothermal areas to go cold.
There is one thing I can tell you for sure about Nevada. We have tons of open space, and if its not *windy*, its *sunny*.
About time! (Score:5, Funny)
There are far too many women driving around in Nevada!
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Naturally (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course it is. Since it's your state, Mr. Reid, it couldn't possibly be anywhere else, right?
That's one of the things I always hated about politicians. They always think their state is the best at ::insert arbitrary thing here::. I got news for you, bud: it's America. Hardly anything here is the best. A lot of it is very good, some of it is even awesome, and some things are even legendary in how amazing they are...but I think saying best is generally pushing it.
-American who loves his country, which is why he can be honest about it
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I wouldn't worry too much about Harry's opinions, he's fading in to history pretty darn soon.
Re:Naturally (Score:4, Interesting)
That's one of the things I always hated about politicians. They always think their state is the best
It's not a problem with politicians, it's a problem with the system. The constitution says that a senator represents a state, a congressperson a district. If you want it to be different, we need to have a body that is elected by the American people as a whole.
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So what? Every state/district/neighborhood deserves to have people fighting for it. The USA is such a large stretch of land with such a diverse bunch of people/communities, that for many problems there isn't just one solution that's "best for the country."
Saudi Arabia? (Score:5, Funny)
How much is that in sensible scientific measurements like Libraries of Congress or Football Fields per Square Barleycorn?
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Las Vegas/Saudi Arabia==1.453 harryreids (non U.S. conversion: 1 harryreid==.74555648 cheesewheels)
Soo... (Score:2)
In Saudi Arabia geothermal energy pushes Harry Reid?
Yellowstone Caldera? (Score:2)
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Based on a few articles in National Geographic you read as a kid and a few PBS specials on volcanic activity, right? We all know those sources are authoritative and complete and never exclusionary, right? It's good that you want testimony from an expert(s), especially since your presumption is based on such an incomplete survey in the first place.
Among other places (Score:2)
Or central New Mexico (the Socorro Seismic Anomaly [nmt.edu]), where there's another honking huge magma chamber. Or pretty near anywhere in the Cascades, or any of Arizona's volcanic fields, or anywhere near Pacific subduction zone, or ...
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Re:Yellowstone Caldera? (Score:5, Interesting)
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$15K each (per house), or $15K for the whole thing (per apartment building)?
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No, Wyoming is the Iraq of geothermal energy and Texas is the Afghanistan of geothermal energy.
Wait, what are we talking about?
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1) IT IS HOT
This is the problem. Hot is good, but magma is a bit too hot. Ideally for geothermal you want something quite a bit cooler. You want it to, for example, boil water and push steam through a turbine, but you don't want it to actually melt the turbine.
water? (Score:2)
And where pray tell does he propose to get the necessary water for this project?
Silly (Score:2)
From the Colorado River -- Nevada has been trying to get a greater allocation for a long time and this would get the Feds in on their side. Or, of course, there's all the sewage from Las Vegas. Whenever the wind is headed out of state they can just use that for coolant.
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From the Colorado River -- Nevada has been trying to get a greater allocation for a long time and this would get the Feds in on their side. Or, of course, there's all the sewage from Las Vegas. Whenever the wind is headed out of state they can just use that for coolant.
Read the article - they're talking Northern Nevada. That's about 450 miles from Las Vegas. The only time Reno is near Vegas is on CSI. And that's no credible source; half of the cast can't even say "Nevada" correctly.
Re:Silly (Score:4, Funny)
"Nevada"
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2) Burn off the oil to produce power
3) Ship the cleaned water to Nevada
4) Profit!
So simple, it doesn't even need a ?????? step!
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And where pray tell does he propose to get the necessary water for this project?
Same place they're getting the heat, I should imagine.
Some More Sources: (Score:4, Informative)
DOE Press Release with Media Contact Number [energy.gov]
Sustainable Business Blog, apparently the initial plant will produce 49.5 MW in capacity [sustainablebusiness.com]
Home website of NGP, the contract winner [nevadageothermal.com]
Write up from EON, with quite a bit more info, including contact info. for various parties involved. [businesswire.com]
In 1981 (Score:2)
Geothermal energy is everywhere (Score:2)
Geothermal energy is everywhere. The Earth has about 5000 years' supply. The skills and equipment for getting it are the same as drilling for oil. The only downside is that geothermal production brings up nasty stuff (such as sulfur) that has to be handled.
Geothermal would be a good activity for the oil drillers displaced by the moratorium on gulf drilling or more generally if we switch to electric cars and alternative fuels.
Hot Rocks (Score:3, Insightful)
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Well you're only supposed to puff at the damned thing, not inhale it. Haven't you learned anything from our American politicians?
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Interestingly (to me, anyhow), the state of Nevada is actually larger than New Zealand. Only about half as many people, though:
Nevada: 110,567 sq mi (286,367 sq km), 2010 pop. 2,600,000
New Zealand: 103,737 sq mi (268,680 sq km), 2010 pop. 4,296,756
This could mean that Nevada has a larger potential for geothermal energy.
Re:Geothermal (Score:5, Funny)
Geothermal isn't really that renewable!
Once we suck all the heat out of the Earth's core, the mantle will solidify: fusing all the tectonic plates and ending earthquakes and volcanoes once and for all.
Win/win.
Re:Geothermal (Score:5, Informative)
Once we suck all the heat out of the Earth's core, the mantle will solidify: fusing all the tectonic plates and ending earthquakes and volcanoes once and for all.
Win/win.
Assuming that were possible (don't worry, it's not), you end up losing the dynamo effect of a liquid mantle, the Earth's magnetic field vanishes, and the solar wind blows the atmosphere off into space. Yeah, really win.
Nerd card revoked.
Re:Geothermal (Score:5, Funny)
Win 1: No more painful earthquakes and embarrassing volcanoes.
Win 2: No more disgusting fungi and parasites mucking about on the surface.
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I guess I'm being too literal. The codeine isn't taking the pain away anymore. My bad. You can have your nerd card back but first you have to let go of that female.
Re:Geothermal (Score:4, Funny)
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"Thats not win win is it? Win/win means everyone benefits."
I thought "Win/win" means "Bill Gates/bill gates" benefits.
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If you accidentally tick off The Big One and Southern California falls into the ocean, all you'll have left are those crazy Northern California people, and we'll -so- become a Red State.
Ever been to Berkeley? San Francisco? California only becomes a Red state if Orange County and San Diego are all that's left.
Or did you mean Red as in Commie? That would be a real possibility.