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Comments: 315 +-   Why Amazon's Kindle Should Use Open Standards on Sunday July 05, @06:22PM

Posted by Soulskill on Sunday July 05, @06:22PM
from the yay-open-book-puns dept.
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Tim O'Reilly wrote in Forbes a while back that he thinks the Kindle only has another two or three years of life left, unless Amazon wises up and embraces open standards. He came to this conclusion, in part, because of his experience deciding how to publish documents on the web back in the mid-1990s. "You see, I'd recently been approached by the folks at the Microsoft Network. They'd identified O'Reilly as an interesting specialty publisher, just the kind of target that they hoped would embrace the Microsoft Network (or MSN, as it came to be called). The offer was simple: Pay Microsoft a $50,000 fee plus a share of any revenue, and in return it would provide this great platform for publishing, with proprietary publishing tools and file formats that would restrict our content to users of the Microsoft platform. The only problem was we'd already embraced the alternative: We had downloaded free Web server software and published documents using an open standards format. That meant anyone could read them using a free browser. While MSN had better tools and interfaces than the primitive World Wide Web, it was clear to us that the Web's low barriers to entry would help it to evolve more quickly, would bring in more competition and innovation, and would eventually win the day."
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  • by drmemnoch (142036) on Sunday July 05, @06:28PM (#28589391)

    No way on Earth I would work hard writing or creating something to have it passed around the Internet for free. I create for my own profit, not your entertainment. Once the Internet community stops (I know it isn't everyone but it is enough to be a major problem) stealing content created by artists for profit, we will finally be able to embrace the open standards we all truly want. Until then DRM will live one in some for or other.

    • Heh, ya actually think the DRM on the kindle works?

      But you make a good point. Amazon has to at least pretend they are making an effort to "protect" the content.. it doesn't really matter that its trivial to defeat, the publishers don't know the difference and the authors obviously don't either.

      • They also 'helpfully' keep 70+% of the price end-users pay.

        Maybe if authors made a bigger stink about getting the shaft from Amazon, they just might get more sales.
        Maybe if authors didn't bitch and moan about how they should get paid extra because a machine converted text to speech, they just might get more sales.

        The world has changed, maybe consider doing something new instead of trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle.

      • by Mista2 (1093071) on Sunday July 05, @09:32PM (#28590301)

        All the DRM does on the kindle is make it harder to move the same book to another device, not impossible. Bus as to only a few years left? Well Talk to Apple about a propietary locked down format for content that can be easily pirated. They won eventually because the device was easy to use, and the content was available WORLD WIDE. Wize up Amazon and the whole publishing industry. E-books have no borders or regions, just like digital music. I live in NZ and would love to get my hands on ebooks from amazons catalog, and I would buy them too, but it is restricted to US only regions, and locked to the Kindle, so I'll keep on pirating the content to get it in a format I can use. Thanks Amazon. You just keep on protecting that content 8)

        • by sribe (304414) on Sunday July 05, @10:58PM (#28590723)

          Well Talk to Apple about a propietary locked down format for content that can be easily pirated.

          Uhmmmm. No! Apple supported that format (AAC + Fairplay) in addition to the worldwide unprotected (MP3) format. In fact, they supported the unprotected format first and only added the DRM-encumbered format later as necessary to strike deals with the music-distribution cartel.

                  • Well yes. There certainly is a chilling effect. You can't publicly make these tools and try to sell them. Which is what his employer was doing. But everyone knew this, long before the DMCA came into effect. It really does nothing to change the "scene", and that's where the cracks come from.

                    Why not? Where the tools were being made and sold (the Russian Republic.... not even in US jurisdiction or the jurisdiction of the court under question) the "tools" were perfectly legal.

                    In this case it was also about academic freedom and being able to make commentary about perhaps a sensitive subject to peers who are engaged in similar research (in this case cryptology). Ultimately what happened was that this person was arrested purely because of his speech, in an academic forum no less, but on the grounds of violations of the DMCA.

                    This legal issue, together with 1st amendment conflicts and other similar problems with the DMCA, still hasn't been completely resolved in a legal sense, nor has SCOTUS had their crack at trying to form an opinion on the topic either. The point here really is that this law continues to be a potential sword to hang over the heads of software developers that might seem to piss off a U.S. Attorney... for whatever reason that may be.

                    BTW, you asked if anybody had been prosecuted, and the answer was given to the affirmative. It doesn't matter if eventually the DOJ was embarrassed to the point of dropping charges in this case, it still was used and can be used in a heavy handed manner as demonstrated with this example.

    • If you keep your work as the internet's best kept secret, that's great by me!

    • ...Then chances are you aren't a decent enough writer and you will just add to the pile of crap which are most books. Seriously, unless you are writing a technical manual of some sort (then usually you have a company paying you and give up all rights to the book in the first place) and won't write for any other reason other than to make a profit, your book will be crap. I don't know of a single really good author who writes primarily for profit. Sure, there are some really good authors who write and make a profit, but most have some other drive to write, especially for fiction writers. If you won't publish it, fine. I'm sure the world will be better off.
      • Mod parent up (Score:5, Insightful)

        by hedwards (940851) on Sunday July 05, @07:01PM (#28589569)
        The Parent poster is right, Art is not something which really works under the model that the GP suggests. There is an element of truth in that being paid to create art provides one with the ability to do so without having to work all day and improves the energy and time available to create the work.

        But it comes at a cost that can be quite high. As soon as you start having to worry about being paid, one has to worry about whether or not the piece is going to be marketable and that is a terribly damaging environment under which to create innovative work. It's not really much of a surprise that most of the masters were doing portraits, working for patrons or downright broke when they were turning out works that would later sell for millions. It's rare to say the least to be able to be a professional artist without putting a muzzle on ones own creativity.

        DRM isn't going to help that situation out much, in fact it's probably going to hurt by eliminating people that are likely to get work that's somewhat out of the ordinary or in other ways unconventional.
        • Last time I checked, taking advantage of someone's enjoyment of their work by not paying them is called exploitation. How about, if because you like to program, your employer decided not to pay you.

          Artists work. They deserve to be paid for what they do. If you don't want to have art on your computer, you can choose to not pay for it. But if it is valuable enough that you might be motivated to go out of your way to get some DRM breaking device, chances are, that means it is valuable, even to you. That means, don't steal it.

          The question isn't whether, for example, Paul McCartney made a billion dollars off of his music, or Steven Spielberg made a billion dollars off of his movies. The question is, is a Paul McCartney song worth a $1 to you. If so, then pony up. Otherwise, don't listen to it.

          It's pretty simple, really.

          • by icebraining (1313345) on Sunday July 05, @08:07PM (#28589907)

            Paulo Coelho is not the literary world's most active Web aficionado, but he's certainly its most prominent. The Brazilian author has sold more than 100 million books, which include 14 short story collections and the novel "The Alchemist." He has been a fan of the Internet since the early 1990s. He spends at least three hours a day online, writing e-mails back and forth with his readers and posting photos on Flickr, MySpace and a blog.

            Coelho's online activities also include a somewhat nefarious one: he likes to promote pirated copies of his own books. At the recent Digital, Life, Design Conference in Munich, Coelho told a gathering of tech company CEOs, artists and designers that since 2005 he's been directing his readers to an online site where they can download his books, in languages from German to Japanese, for free. "I always thought that when, at the beginning of your career, you strive to be read, you can't change your mind later and become greedy about it," he said.

            Tell that to his publisher, HarperCollins. When reached by NEWSWEEK, a HarperCollins spokeswoman, Patricia Rose, said the publisher knew nothing about Coelho's online activities.

            With his announcement Coelho is turning up the heat on an issue that's been simmering in the book publishing industry for years. In supplementing traditional promotional strategies, such as book signings and reviews, with free downloads, Coelho is championing a model that's gaining momentum among his fellow, albeit lesser-known, authors. Writers of technical manuals, academic books and fiction authors, like science fiction writer Cory Doctorow, have been putting their entire books online for free, with the consent of their publishers. Some authors claim that online publishing increases book sales by stimulating word of mouth. Publishers, for the most part, have been reluctant to endorse the practice for fear that it will undermine their sales and contracts for foreign rights and distribution. The trouble is, nobody really knows what effect free online publishing has on book sales, because there's almost no data to go on. "I think the Internet, for [publishers], is a very strange world, still," says Coelho's agent, Monica Antunes, from her office in Barcelona. "They can't make up their minds whether it's good or not good."

            Whereas most authors who have embraced online publishing have done so openly, Coelho had been deftly hiding behind the anonymity provided in the digital world. His site, Piratecoelho, culls pirated versions of his books on sites like BitTorrent and eMule. He pays 10 fans scattered across France, Spain, Brazil, Russia and Turkey to find new pipelines for him to gather versions of his books onto the site. Visitors to his blog can click on an image of Coelho, resplendent in a neatly trimmed white beard, scarf and eye patch (he resembles an affable buccaneer in real life as well), and continue on to the site.

            Coelho believes his online activities have only increased his already healthy sales. When he first came across a pirated edition of one of his books, in Russian, on the Internet in 1999, he put the link on his site, and the impact was immediate. Bookstore sales in Russia, a market in which Coelho was having distribution problems and where he had sold only 1,000 books, rocketed to 10,000 in 2001. He has since sold 10 million copies of his books, his agent says. His fans have downloaded complete editions of his books, in languages ranging from Spanish to Swedish, more than 20 million times in the past seven years. By publishing online, he says, "you give the reader the possibility of reading books and choosing whether to buy it or not."

            • . By publishing online, he says, "you give the reader the possibility of reading books and choosing whether to buy it or not."

              That's good for Coehlo, but the issue here is that the work is his. Like it or not, the US and the rest of the world has adopted the French model of copyright and in that model the artist reigns absolutely supreme first. If Coehlo wants to give his work away to promote himself, that's fine. But, that is his choice to make and not something that should be imposed on him - unless you want to change the law.

              • by JPLemme (106723) on Sunday July 05, @09:48PM (#28590397)
                I think the situation would be improved if the artist reigned absolutely supreme. Unfortunately the copyright owner reigns supreme, and that seems to be the root cause of a lot of the current unhappiness with the situation. Frankly, Lars Ulrich may have been a dick, but it's hard to argue that he didn't have the moral right to complain that a recording that he had created got released without his consent. But when Sony argues that they're defending the "rights of the artists" whilst taking 100% of the artist's royalties until promotional bills are paid in full (thus forcing the artist to pay for the production and promotion of the recording, but without actually giving the artist control over the budget for production or promotion), it's hard to be sympathetic.
          • by civilizedINTENSITY (45686) on Sunday July 05, @08:49PM (#28590107)
            First, beautiful definition: "taking advantage of someone's enjoyment of their work by not paying them is called exploitation".

            However, just because someone works hard doesn't mean they deserve to be paid. "Artists work. They deserve to be paid for what they do." A fool who works hard first digging holes, then the next day burying them, doesn't deserve to demand a paycheck "because he works hard all day." Who was he working for?

            If an artist is hired to do work, he deserves to paid for the work he does as per the agreement. If an artist choses to produce art, there is no guarantee of payment. None. Why should there be?

            Agreed: "The question isn't whether, for example, Paul McCartney made a billion dollars off of his music."

            But then, disagreed, because the question is *not*: "is a Paul McCartney song worth a $1 to you".

            A sweet smelling rose bush is worth a $1 to me, for sure. But do you have the right to ask me for $1 to enjoy that rose bush?

            The real question is should we continue to pretend that nonmaterial productions should count as property? Does the societal benefit of such an artifical and arbitrary distinction outweigh the cost? That is the real question.
          • by Maudib (223520) on Sunday July 05, @09:36PM (#28590329)

            Actually if an "artist" is a member of a guild or union that pushes legislation the end result of which is to steal from the commons, then I make sure that I not only don't pay for it, but I will help other people take it without paying as well.

            Until the Copyright Term Extension Act is rescinded, I consider all media produced by "artists" affiliated with the companies/guilds/unions that bought the law, to be free. Furthermore the act of refusing to pay for their work while actively distributing it to others for free is not only ethical, but an important bit of civil disobedience. Those who pay for works created by said artists are in fact the real transgressors.

            It really is unfortunate that so many people end up buying these works simply for the sake of convenience.

    • by selven (1556643) on Sunday July 05, @06:47PM (#28589489)

      I create for my own profit, not your entertainment

      Good luck profiting or entertaining with that mindset.

      Once the Internet community stops (I know it isn't everyone but it is enough to be a major problem) stealing content created by artists for profit

      This statement, especially with the word "once" in it (implying that it's inevitable) is the epitome of the "goodluckwiththat" tag.

      we will finally be able to embrace the open standards we all truly want

      We will be able to embrace open standards only when the entire internet agrees to do things your way. Nice.

      Until then DRM will live one in some for or other.

      Given that file sharing is not going to vountarily go away, this statement becomes "information will continue to be locked down until the entire internet is locked down", which is probably true. We can't stop DRM any more than you can stop piracy.

      • Given that file sharing is not going to vountarily go away, this statement becomes "information will continue to be locked down until the entire internet is locked down", which is probably true. We can't stop DRM any more than you can stop piracy.

        That's not quite true, pirates are much more likely to win than that. It's a matter of will, and if you get enough people cracking the protection schemes quickly enough at launch, DRM will eventually go away. DRM is about control and profit, if the schemes are broken fast enough there's definitely a question of why spend many thousands of dollars locking something down that'll be cracked within a few weeks. Sure it does help with sales initially, but you're typically having to sell a hell of a lot of copies in order to break even and it does put one at a competitive disadvantage to those that don't need to sell those extra copies.

        Not to mention the fact that there's a surprising number of people that don't pirate software that doesn't have DRM incorporated into it.

    • DRM, and other artificial restrictions (e.g. regional restrictions on sales) are some of the major reasons why "piracy" persists. Drop the DRM and offer products and services for a fair price using innovative business models and you'll find that the issue of piracy will be of little concern.

    • by hedwards (940851) on Sunday July 05, @06:56PM (#28589551)
      No it isn't, and I wish people would stop suggesting that piracy is killing services off. Because it's not. Show me a platform that was killed by piracy and I'll show you a platform that was horribly managed. More often than not the DRM just limits the number of sales and raises the number of copies necessary to break even.

      The problem is that customer service stinks and there's a belief in the entitlement to profit. Trust me there isn't one, and as soon as people start to acknowledge that the cost of an item is going to approach the marginal cost of another one, there's going to be no effort that effectively stops the piracy.

      Worse still is the fact that piracy goes way up when one has to pirate in order to use the content as one wishes. You have the right to control the distribution of the copies of your work, not what people do with those copies, and as such DRM is a pretty egregious violation of ones rights. I have the right to sell any copies I've bought provided that I don't create any additional copies to sell.

      I'm also sorry that you're so terribly misinformed about copyright law, copyright isn't there so that you can profit. It's there to maximize the amount of work being created, any profits you make are purely as a side effect of that goal. Fighting consumers to prevent them from using it on the platform of their choosing in whatever way they wish to is an egregious abuse of that right.
    • No way on Earth I would work hard writing or creating something to have it passed around the Internet for free. I create for my own profit, not your entertainment. Once the Internet community stops (I know it isn't everyone but it is enough to be a major problem) stealing content created by artists for profit, we will finally be able to embrace the open standards we all truly want. Until then DRM will live one in some for or other.

      You're free to make that choice. But:

      (1) There are other strategies that may be more to your economic benefit. I write science textbooks and science fiction. In the areas that I'm familiar with, one good example of a highly successful alternative strategy is the Baen Free Library [baen.com] of science fiction books. A couple of other very talented professional SF writers who make their work available for free online are Cory Doctorow [craphound.com] and Benjamin Rosenbaum [benjaminrosenbaum.com]. For a few hundred other (mostly nonfiction) examples, see my sig. (I'm not a particularly well known SF author, but here [lightandmatter.com] is where I've done the same thing with my fiction. My nonfiction is free online here [lightandmatter.com].)

      (2) History has shown that DRM doesn't work. Back in the 1980s we went through the whole DRM fiasco before. Back then it was called "copy protection." You would buy software on a 5-inch floppy disk, and it would have various formatting trickery that made it hard to copy. Users hated it. For one thing, they couldn't back up their software properly, so as soon as the disk wore out, they had lost their investment. Users voted with their feet, refusing to buy copy-protected software. The result was that copy protection disappeared. Since then, various people have kept insisting on relearning the same lessons over and over. The outcome is always the same. DRM doesn't work, users hate it, and because users hate it, it ends up being a failure in economic terms.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      I have the gut feeling that you are doing it wrong. See I have a bunch of O'Reilly books in my bookshelf and I will probably increase that number. I really doubt I will ever get one of your books in my hand, or for that matter books written by folks of your mentality. The simple truth is, that the O'Reilly people give me a good reason to by, because they produce good books and they have a moral philosophy that I feel comfortable with. I'm actually totally happy when I buy something from them. Also DRM an
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      No way on Earth I would work hard writing or creating something to have it passed around the Internet for free.

      That is fair and I'm certain you are voicing a very popular opinion among editors, artists, writers, etc. As O'Reilly mentions, though, Apple seems to have balanced this both with music (MP3s are pretty "open" to play on anything). I think what the article means by "open" is that it would be nice to be able to read this through multiple devices and not just the kindle. Your username starts with DRM and, although insanely flawed, there are ways to implement it so that numerous devices and programs can use

    • That's an interesting viewpoint. Let me share another with you. I own a Kindle2 and loved it from day one. I'm totally willing to buy books for it. In fact I don't really have an issue with the prices Amazon charges given the current market but I would expect them to fall as the user base grows.

      All of that said, I have decided to stop buying books from one publisher and a specific author due to unreasonable (IMO) DRM restrictions placed on the book when I bought it. Specifically it was a Doubleday book called House of Cards that opened my eyes to how restrictive the Amazon DRM can be. As a result of that experience and the fact that there was no way to know what the restrictions were prior to purchasing, I have started looking for free books and converting various third party books.

      I will still occasionally buy books from a known author that I "must" read but I do this with the full realization that Amazon could rip the content away from me at a moments notice. I don't buy unknown authors or books I may want to keep or reread any more on my Kindle. Instead I go to the library or borrow the books from a friend until I'm sure I want to follow that author. I used to just buy everything and anything I was interested in but now I'm much more careful and have started finding ways to read the books for free if I'm not interested in keeping them or they're not a favorite author. So if you're a favorite author of mine your viewpoint works but you certainly won't break into the market at least for me while your works are DRM crippled.

      Perhaps piracy is a greater problem that growing your audience for you and if so then good luck with your battle against it but for most authors I suspect growing your audience is the greater problem and at least for me DRM is a non-starter when trying to get me to buy an unknown author or a book I want to keep for multiple reads which leaves me only purchasing stuff that I know I like but don't want to keep and reread over and over again. It has really limited what I buy on my Kindle to just escapist writing that I read for recreation.
    • This from the not so new news: Apple offering DRM-free Music in the iTunes Music Store. Have they positioned themselves avgainst the poor artitsts, or does it simply make business sense to give users what they want and not treat your customers like criminals?
    • No way on Earth I would work hard writing or creating something to have it passed around the Internet for free. I create for my own profit, not your entertainment.

      And that's why I've heard of David Wong and Cory Doctrow, and would buy books by either of them in hardcopy if I spotted one in a book shop, but I still have no idea who you are.

  • iPod and iTunes (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DaRat (678130) * on Sunday July 05, @06:34PM (#28589431)
    The Kindle does support the Mobipocket format. Docs in that format can be distributed freely and without copy protection. The tools are available for free.

    A better analogue is the iPod and the iTunes Store. The iPod became the dominant mp3 player not because it supported proprietary and non proprietary formats. It became successful because it made the process of acquiring and transferring content (ripped and purchased) seamless and easy. The Kindle has something very similar in its ease with which you can purchase books and put them onto your Kindle.

    • Re:iPod and iTunes (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Darkness404 (1287218) on Sunday July 05, @06:47PM (#28589491)
      ...No, the iPod became dominant because it was A) affordable B) had a decent enough UI once you got used to it C) had enough features and D) the competition was crap. Sure, today you can find better MP3 players than the iPod if all you want to do is listen to music, but back when the first iPod came out, it was the smallest player with the highest capacity and attractive design. And now the iPod continues its dominance via the applications on the iPod touch/iPhone plus all the DRM'd music others have bought and don't want to spend $100 reconverting it and prefer to instead pay $75 more to upgrade their player to the latest iPod.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        iPod = affordable?

        I would call the iPod a lot of positive words/descriptors. "Affordable" would not be one of those. I love my current iPod, but you pay a premium for quality/capabilities of such a device.
      • Lame (Score:4, Funny)

        by commodoresloat (172735) * on Sunday July 05, @08:09PM (#28589915) Homepage

        when the first iPod came out, it was the smallest player with the highest capacity

        Not true at all. It had less space than a Nomad!

        And no wireless!!

        • Re:iPod and iTunes (Score:5, Informative)

          by Darkness404 (1287218) on Sunday July 05, @08:10PM (#28589919)

          A) It costs a couple of hundred dollars more than the competition.

          Back in 2001? I don't think so. There were no commonly available 5 GB devices in the iPods form factor back in 2001. Today, yes, 2001? No.

          B) It ripped off the UI from the competition with the exception of the buttons on the case

          Not really, the entire UI was basically based off the click wheel which wasn't really used on anything else back in 2001. If you have evidence feel free to show me, but I can't remember (and a quick Google search turned up no results) of any other player having a similar UI back in 2001.

          C) The iPod never had as many features as the competition did, you're probably thinking of attachments. D) The competition wasn't crap, I've used the competition for years, and I've never had to send it back for a costly battery replacement.

          About the only other digital audio player that came close back in 2001 to the iPod would be the Personal Jukebox and even then it used a larger HD making the entire device itself larger.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      The article did recognize that, and also explained why that didn't work for O'reily (lack of features.) Really it didn't seam the article cared as much about the hardware, as about the publisher side. I also think this open format discussion was also more about letting it be developed and improved by some community, than leaving it locked to being developed by a single group of developers.
      It seams the only way to meet this definition of open is to make the kindle platform open to developers, it was uncl

      • Re:iPod and iTunes (Score:4, Informative)

        by demonlapin (527802) on Sunday July 05, @08:51PM (#28590119) Homepage Journal
        Ever actually used a Kindle? It's nothing like reading a book on a computer, which I've done a few times. It's like reading a real book - no eyestrain, easy viewing, no need to be plugged in if you'll be more than a couple of hours.

        I get that it's not everyone's cup of tea, and yes, it is really expensive. But if you have the money - and I do, so all you folks out there who depend on early adopters should thank me - it's just an amazing device. I bought my wife a K2 for our anniversary, and liked it so much that I went out and bought a K1, used, not a month later. (The price was too good to turn down.)
  • Commercialism (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Techmeology (1426095) on Sunday July 05, @06:36PM (#28589439) Homepage
    The trouble with today's society is commercialism driven technology. Just as art is hollow when the artist cares only about money, truly creative science and technology cannot take place when its primary purpose is to line the pockets of some corporation. It's this care and passion for creation that makes open standards superior. Yes. We all know Microsoft can pump marketable features out, but ultimately, Microsoft technology exists to serve Microsoft, not us. As an added side effect, most DRM schemes rely on security through obfuscation. Hence a piece of technology based on open standards ought to be free of DRM. Even if open source DRM could be constructed, most people passionate enough about a scientific community would be very anti-DRM. Conclusion: unless you like being Microsoft's pawn, open standards FTW!
      • by betterunixthanunix (980855) on Sunday July 05, @09:25PM (#28590269)
        "No, the fact of the matter is that open standards and this anti-commercialism that you speak of is really just a geeks way of saying that they are self indulgent and want to create for themselves."

        No, it is our way of saying that we are tired of being made into cash cows, and even more to the point, tired of being called communists, criminals, and terrorists just because we have a decent understanding of how computers work. We are sick of living in a society where everyone is trying to monetize everything -- now they even want to monetize our friendships with other people.

        "It's the guys at Microsoft and Apple that have to sweat deadlines, do focus groups, sift through the complaints of millions of users, the genuinely work for everyone else. They get paid for it."

        I am a Fedora contributor, and yet I get complains from Ubuntu, Debian, and Gentoo users all the time. Millions of bugzilla entries have been filed in various open source projects over the past year. The Fedora development list receives hundreds of messages a day discussing how to solve end user problems. We are not getting paid for it, but we still do it.

        "Windows is for the people that use it. Mac is for the people that use it. But, Linux is for the people that write it."

        No, Windows is for Microsoft and their investors. Mac is for Apple their investors. The fact that they have users is secondary to the fact that they can turn a profit. Linux is for anyone who wants it, for whatever they want to do with it. That is why we give it away, and grant everyone the right to use, study, modify, and share it.

        "You can rip me all you want, but just look at all the project managers of various Linux things, and their postings, and the things that strike you is that they are all about 'me' first."

        That would explain why the swfdec developers were so busy getting Youtube to work correctly with swfdec back when Torvalds sent them a message about how his wife was having trouble. That would explain why the Fedora developers took the time to create graphical configuration utilities even though we could configure our systems using ed as a text editor. That would explain why the Ubuntu developers bothered with creating an easy to use system. Yes, you certainly know what you are talking about.

        "Stallman, Torvalds, etc, are all pretty self-centered people. Me. Me. Me."

        Oh yes, that is why Torvalds had it out with Stallman over whether or not it is better for Linux users to deal with GPLv2 or GPLv3.

        "This solution is evil, that technology is terrible."

        Which is why the NSA uses it for mission critical systems.

        "Everything to them is black and white."

        Which is exactly why Stallman admitted that not everyone is going to take free software to the extreme that he takes it, and why Torvalds rejected GPLv3 for Linux because he wanted to leave open the option of using Linux for TiVo and similarly locked-down platforms. Yup, real black and white there.
      • by rastoboy29 (807168) on Sunday July 05, @10:24PM (#28590563) Homepage
        Who else should they be working for?

        You?

        I trust the OSS guys to protect my interests a thousand times more than any random corp.
  • by Lysol (11150) on Sunday July 05, @06:47PM (#28589487)

    But instead... I got a Sony PRS-700. And I love it. Sure the screen could be bigger, but it supports PDF natively and a lot of the tech books I get (probably not going to be the case with most other books - yet) are in epub format, which is at least an open format. I know the Kindle DX supports native PDF, but I actually like the epub format now as it seems to render better on my PRS-700. The PRS-700 also has touch screen and a SD slot; so I can just download the epub's, copy them over to the sd, and then they show up on my 'bookshelf' on the reader. Exactly the amount of control I wanted.

    I can see what Amazon is doing here - they're trying to mimic the success of the iTunes music store. I suspect this will work for a while, but at some point, others will come along and force Amazon to open up. Once they do, I might buy a bigger Kindle.

    All in all, I think ebooks have finally arrived and I'm ditching all my paper text manuals and never buying another one again..

  • Kindle Coverage (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Nom du Keyboard (633989) on Sunday July 05, @07:03PM (#28589575)
    Boy, Kindle is sure getting a lot of coverage on Slashdot lately. You're left to think that somehow the world matters because of it - which it doesn't.

    Google getting into book selling is a much bigger deal. Fictionwise's current meltdown where they apparently can't even report and pay royalties on time or properly is a big deal given their size in the eBook market and number of publishers involved. The fact that you don't even need a Kindle reader to buy and read Kindle books seems seldom mentioned. (A free Kindle reader app is available for iPhone/iPod Touch and there are millions more of those out there than Kindle hardware.)

    Now another pundit tells us that Kindle must change, or die, in 3 years. Kindle is excellent for its intended uses. It's purpose built to provide eBook reading in a thin format with a very readable screen in bright light, weeks' long battery life, limited browsing, multiple formats, bookmarking, annotation, and sharing the book across multiple devices, and no-worries wireless connection. Also, lots of books available for it from the biggest bookseller on the planet. It's hard to see who is going to beat out that combination easily in the near future. I'd just as quickly predict the iPod demise as the end of Kindle.

    Where do I see Kindle in 3 years? Cheaper, if production catches up to sales. Better browsing and better integration of its features into other formats (e.g. annotations on PDFs). Content (e.g. Newspapers) delivered to it by subscription replacing dead tree physical delivery. Or possibly limited to a hardware niche market while their reader software is running on every significant portable device with a screen large enough to read on.

    One way or another "Kindle" survives as a brand as long as Amazon doesn't abandon it themselves and keeps developing the product.

    My personal opinion? That the people predicting Kindle's demise are the ones who hate it in the first place and are trying to talk it away.
    • I'm all for open standards; but it isn't at all obvious that ODF is anything like the right one. ODF has a great deal of complexity, not a virtue in embedded devices, because it is designed to cope with the (fairly intricate and evolved) needs of office suites. Something like EPUB, which is designed for ebook purposes, or even a subset of HTML seems like it would be a great deal more suitable.
    • Re:Apple tablet (Score:4, Insightful)

      by demonlapin (527802) on Sunday July 05, @09:11PM (#28590225) Homepage Journal
      The thing is, Kindle = e-Ink + Amazon store.

      e-Ink is really a crucial part of the Kindle experience. If you've never played with it IRL, you can't really appreciate it - it just sounds a bit ridiculous to say "Works in full sunlight!" and "Long battery life!" until you've gone outside in full summer sun and found it easier to read than it was inside, and then gotten through 3 or 4 long books before you have to recharge. If used heavily, the battery STILL lasts a week when wireless is off. No tablet based on currently available tech can touch this, and I know of no tech in the pipeline that will change that.

      And the Kindle has an edge - in some ways, to most people - in that you can shop wherever there is Sprint access. I'm in a 1xRTT area, and though it's slower, it works. So you get the big-buyer power of Amazon opening up the catalog, and the universal access, and it gets a major edge over other readers in some ways - especially if you're in an airport, e.g., that doesn't have free WiFi.
    • by Eskarel (565631) on Monday July 06, @12:05AM (#28591101)

      First of all, open source and open standards are two totally separate things.

      Second, I'm fairly certain that the biggest cost in those things is the screen, followed by the hardware, followed by the name recognition mark up(Sony, Amazon), the percentage of the cost that the OS creates on a device whose entire purpose is to store, index, and display documents in a limited subset of formats is just not even worth mentioning. Half of slashdot could knock that kind of system up in a couple of months on their own.

      E-book readers are expensive because the OLED screens which are so necessary for them to be even remotely comfortable to read are really new technology and still really expensive and because the hardware is specialized largely to the purpose. Eventually we'll get economies of scale and that will drop the price quite dramatically, but OS licensing fees aren't even in it, Linux doesn't have code to run an ebook reader, and everything that isn't about running an ebook reader isn't necessary, so there's not much gain.

      • by obarthelemy (160321) on Monday July 06, @12:09AM (#28591133)

        - "open standards" pretty much guarantee that you can port software, and interface hardware, to newer stuff. And that somebody will do it. I have 15+ year old ISA cards that still work in recent PCs. I'm 100% sure that my .txt, .jpg, .rtf, .html, ... files will be readable by my grandchildren, if they care. They might be able to hack my old parallel printer to actually print stuff on paper, and laugh at the idea.

        - "Popular" used to guarantee pretty much the same thing - I can still read my CP/M Wordstar Docs ! Except now with DRM and DMCA, it's harder, and it's a crime. I'm fairly sure you won't have a kindle reader + Windows 2035 / Ubuntu 40.10 synch software + amazon authentification server to access your Kindle books 25 years from now, and that Amazon won't be around, or willing, to help. And forget about the children ^^

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