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AMD Graphics Games Hardware

A $99 Graphics Card Might Be All You Need 618

Vigile writes "With the release of AMD's latest budget graphics card, the Radeon HD 4770, the GPU giant is bringing a lot of technology to the table. The card sports the world's first 40nm GPU (beating out CPUs to a new process technology for the first time), GDDR5 memory, and 640 stream processors, all for under $100. What is even more interesting is that as PC gaming has evolved it appears that a $99 graphics card is all you really need to play the latest PC titles — as long as you are comfortable with a resolution of 1920x1200 or below. Since so few PC gamers have screens larger than that, could the world of high-end PC graphics simply go away?"
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A $99 Graphics Card Might Be All You Need

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  • Agreed! (Score:4, Informative)

    by Lordfly ( 590616 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @04:07PM (#27749977) Journal

    I recently purchased an Nvidia 9800 for around 129 bucks. It came with two Call of Duty games, so I imagine the card is significantly cheaper than that.

    It runs everything without so much as a single complaint, on max details.

    And is it just me, or does FSAA have little real effect on visual quality? I never have it on, and even with it on (such as in WoW), I can't notice a bit of difference on a 19" LCD monitor. Turning FSAA can save you tons of money (and framerates!)

  • by Magreger_V ( 1441121 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @04:11PM (#27750061)
    I recently bought the HD4830 for $130 and was completely blown away by the performance. Crysis maxed out on a budget system?!! Hallelujah!! Now just imagine that without the OS Layer.
  • by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @04:14PM (#27750097)
    First, why pay more than $99 USD for a video card?

    Second, Newegg lists the ATI 4770 as $109 USD [newegg.com] with a 128-bit memory.

    Third, the ATI 4830 are a better deal for under $99 [newegg.com] with a 256-bit memory.
  • Re:Once upon a time (Score:5, Informative)

    by Idiomatick ( 976696 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @04:17PM (#27750157)
    That is NOT what he's saying at all. He's saying that 'high end' will be reasonably priced. We will surely continue to move forwards but the market is targeting a 100$ video card group and will continue to do so in future. Less games like crysis will be released that require you to spend 300$ on a video card.

    Personally I think this is true. And I think most game companies have targeted 100$ or less video cards for a while now. But there will always be games like crysis that will allow you to make use of your cutting edge 500$ card. Games can easily be built to 'work' on a 50$ card and still with a few settings tax a 500$ card. There is minimal coding investment compared to other features so people will always want it.
  • by DeadDecoy ( 877617 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @04:18PM (#27750175)
    Hmm ... do you use linux for your gaming/graphics needs? I've only had headaches when I've been futzing around with ATI cards on one of my linux boxes. Configuring them sometimes requires a bit of xorg.conf knowledge and it never seemed to perform as well compared to running on a windows machine. Nvidia, however, tends to have good linux support, thus teaching me a lesson about buying a gfx card for a particular os. Even if they're more expensive, I'd rather shell out the extra 50$ for some decent firmware support than get something which sometimes works.
  • Re:Agreed! (Score:5, Informative)

    by nine-times ( 778537 ) <nine.times@gmail.com> on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @04:25PM (#27750267) Homepage

    Well I'm not an expert of any kind, but AFAIK the point of antialiasing is pretty much to compensate for low-resolutions displays. If you have a high enough DPI or a big enough display (and so you can sit far enough away) then FSAA isn't going to make a huge difference anymore.

  • by subsolar2 ( 147428 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @04:28PM (#27750305)

    First, the 4770 is running GDDR5 at approximatly the same clock rate as the 4830 running GDDR3 so they have the same effective memory bandwidth.

    Second, while they both have 640 universal shaders, the shaders on the 4770 are running ~40% faster.

    Third, so the 4770 has approximately the same or better performance than a 4850 that costs $130-150.

    So I think the 4770 is a deal at $109 ... the price will probably come down after the inital rush and the 4830 will disappear.

  • by 644bd346996 ( 1012333 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @04:37PM (#27750515)

    Have you been ignoring AMD/ATI for the past year?

    They've been releasing documentation on most of their chips lately, and the open source drivers have been making good use of it. The open-source 3d drivers aren't as good as the proprietary drivers, but if open-source drivers are a must for you, AMD is clearly the way to go, and has been for quite some time.

  • Re:Agreed! (Score:5, Informative)

    by DragonWriter ( 970822 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @04:39PM (#27750553)

    Well I'm not an expert of any kind, but AFAIK the point of antialiasing is pretty much to compensate for low-resolutions displays. If you have a high enough DPI or a big enough display (and so you can sit far enough away) then FSAA isn't going to make a huge difference anymore.

    It exists to compensate for rendering artifacts due to rendering points on a regular grid; having more pixels per steradian (whether due to higher resolution or greater viewing distance) doesn't eliminate the artifacts, though it will, for most kinds of rendering artifacts, make them less noticeable. AA tries to eliminate the artifacts by sampling additional points around the "real" location on the grid and blending them to create the actual value rendered for the pixel.

  • by hattig ( 47930 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @04:44PM (#27750655) Journal

    Wow, it's not 2001 anymore. ATI/AMD have monthly driver releases, you very rarely hear about issues on the tech websites, and they're opening up the hardware specifications for open source drivers, which will take time to arrive but at least it's a good move for people who want an open source only desktop.

  • by Vancorps ( 746090 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @05:01PM (#27751003)

    I had all the same problems with my Nvidia card and then I looked at NV Monitor and saw that it was running at 92 degree celcius. Turns out the slot cooling fan I was using wasn't helping at all. I removed it and now I'm at a healthy 62.

    Of course it also just sounds like a defective card or it's not seated correctly. ATI cards in the past would sort of work if they weren't seated correctly.

    These days it seems AMD/ATI is putting out better drivers than Nvidia. It's a nice change to see given that I remember a time when it was the other way around.

  • by Mad Merlin ( 837387 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @05:08PM (#27751131) Homepage

    You're thinking of the T221 [wikipedia.org]. It's a single 22" LCD with a resolution of 3840×2400 and an initial price of ~$20k.

  • by 644bd346996 ( 1012333 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @05:22PM (#27751405)

    The open-source drivers are more reliable, easier to use, and more compatible with other software, but their performance is significantly lower than the proprietary drivers.

  • by Animats ( 122034 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @05:24PM (#27751433) Homepage

    The world of high-end graphics cards went away a decade ago. Evans and Sutherland, Dynamic Pictures, and Lockheed all had graphics cards for PCs in the $1000-$5000 range. Ten years ago, I had a $3000 graphics board from Dynamic Pictures. For a while I had something called a Fujitsu Sapphire graphics board on loan; Fujitsu gave up and exited the business before launching a product. And I'm ignoring SGI here.

    The high-end guys were run over by the gamer card industry, which had real volume and was "good enough" for high-end animation tools. "High end" today is a few hundred dollars, not a few thousand.

    The big headache for the animation community has been insufficient graphics memory. Gamer cards tended to stress fill rate over texture memory. Nobody in animation cares about frame rate once it passes 30FPS. What you need for animation is plenty of space for big textures. Game textures are shrunk to fit, but that happens late in the development pipeline. During content creation (and for movie and TV work) you need much larger texture maps. A few gigabytes of texture memory would not be too much. For most of a decade, you couldn't get that on PCs. Finally, you can.

  • by Theovon ( 109752 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @05:41PM (#27751729)

    If free drivers are really a concern to you, you might consider helping out with a project that is working to develop a graphics card that itself is open source.

    http://www.opengraphics.org

    Consider making a donation to help out developers:

    http://linuxfund.org/projects/ogd1/

  • by Moryath ( 553296 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @05:46PM (#27751821)

    And if you were using agile tech, rather than static LCD, this wouldn't be a problem!

  • by casualsax3 ( 875131 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @06:11PM (#27752165)
    That actually sounds more like a power issue. The 8x AGP cards were notoriously sensitive to fluctuations in one of the rails (I want to say 5v, but it's been forever...) Newer PCIe cards are better, but if you're running cool and your computer reboots for no reason (particularly during games) I'd put money on a poor quality or faulty PSU.
  • Re:Once upon a time (Score:2, Informative)

    by sexconker ( 1179573 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @06:45PM (#27752623)

    The 7900 and 8800 GTS are by no means high end.

    Recent high-end nVidia cards:
    6800 GT / Ultra
    8800 GTX/Ultra
    GTX 280

    For ATi, we're looking at:
    9800 Pro / XT
    2400 Pro
    4850

    Anything else is binning, marketing, or slapping two on one card.
    ALWAYS get the flagship. For nVidia, this means buy the one with the most 8s in the name. The same holds true for their chipsets.

  • by cowbutt ( 21077 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @06:46PM (#27752653) Journal
    My home desktop motherboard does AGP, and none of the AGP graphics cards I can find support 1920x1200; I don't think most of them support 1600x1xxx. So if I go get a decent LCD monitor, I'm going to need to replace the motherboard to support the graphics card... I've run a 21" CRT at 1600x1200 with an nVidia GeForce4 440MX, a Radeon 7500 and a Radeon 9250, all AGP. None were the greatest - even when I bought them - for games, but if all you want is a regular desktop (and an occasional bit of 3D), they'll suffice.
  • by clodney ( 778910 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @07:43PM (#27753265)

    I entered it wrong - 1920x1200 was what I meant.

  • by lgw ( 121541 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @07:51PM (#27753343) Journal

    But once it's up, it generally doesn't have a problem. It's only on initial boot that it's generating these problems. That's why a temp issue seems unlikely.

    I've fought the same issue several times on several unrelated homebuilds. Each time it was a motherboard issue. Most likely, your motherboard has microscopic cracks, caused by uneven thermal expansion once upon a time, but when the board heats up everything is fine.

    If this is the case, your computer will stop working entirely in a week or three, and not be able to complete POST.

    It looked like a vid card issue to me the first time, but after endless gyrations swapping the motherboard fixed it entirely. Next time I saw the issue, I just blindly swapped the motherboard and it went away.

  • by OrangeTide ( 124937 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @09:00PM (#27753931) Homepage Journal

    I really do need at least 256x240 for playing games. [like Megaman]

  • by Nom du Keyboard ( 633989 ) on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @09:00PM (#27753933)
    The ATI HD 4770 isn't the only amazing graphics card from ATI. For $52 (NewEgg) I'm installing an ATI HD 4550 into my Dell C521 low-profile system. Passive cooling, low profile, VGA output required, and a 25W power budget severely constrain my possible choices. But for a tiny card this one is a powerhouse as well. ATI is truly redefining the GPU space these day - and for the better! Anyone who doesn't think so need only remember the Nvidia GTX 280 released last year for $649.00. That price barely lasted a month once the ATI HD 4870 arrived with near the performance at half the price!

    Greed may be good, but competition is much better!
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @09:15PM (#27754035)

    They have a fix. http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2064&p_created=1177972007

  • Re:Once upon a time (Score:3, Informative)

    by hawk ( 1151 ) <hawk@eyry.org> on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @09:45PM (#27754237) Journal

    I was raised there, too. I remember seeing one through the back yard fence . . .

    hawk, whose parents moved from San Francisco to sleepy little San Jose to raise him, unaware of what Shockley was up to at the other end of the valley . . .

  • Re:Once upon a time (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 28, 2009 @09:48PM (#27754267)

    You seem to be off by a bit. The GTX 285 is the current best-performing single card from nVidia, and the 4850 shouldn't even really be considered high-end since it's basically a budget 4870 (which itself has since been replaced by the 4890 as the single-card performance leader for ATI).

    Anandtech [anandtech.com] has [anandtech.com] a few [anandtech.com] reviews with some nice spec comparison charts for most of the current models, with more details in the articles they're attached to.

  • Re:Once upon a time (Score:3, Informative)

    by Jeremy Erwin ( 2054 ) on Wednesday April 29, 2009 @12:19AM (#27755339) Journal

    $300 [vintage-computer.com]

  • by MrHanky ( 141717 ) on Wednesday April 29, 2009 @05:42AM (#27756983) Homepage Journal

    OK, then. I installed it in Windows XP and tested, just for you. Same computer, of course, but with a more recent version of ioquake3; same resolution and everything. 192 fps. So it's faster in Windows, as I expected. I'm not going to bother with fglrx.

    122 fps was with the old radeon driver, as radeonhd doesn't work for me. The OpenGL performance for the two should be pretty much identical, though, as they both use the same Mesa and DRI.

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