Toshiba Battery Charges In 10 Minutes 203
Slatterz writes "Toshiba has unveiled a battery prototype that offers a 90 percent charge capacity in just 10 minutes. The Super Charge Ion Battery (SCIB) is capable of handling 5,000 to 6,000 recharge cycles, compared to the typical 500 offered by standard lithium-ion batteries. The new battery is composed of a durable material that offers a high level of thermal stability and prevents overheating."
a better link (Score:5, Informative)
Is the InfoWorld article this seems to have come from:
Right here [infoworld.com]
This is being shown in a laptop, and will be in a Schwinn bicycle next year.
This sounds good, certainly, but I'm *really* hoping eeStor's superduperultracapacitor technology works out as advertised. That will change the world.
Sounds like LiFePo4 (Score:5, Informative)
Well, the stats itself sound pretty much like A123 or similar cells: Lithium with an ironphosphate instead of cobalt anode material.
They have higher cycle times, and they can be charged at up to 5C without much problems (which would agree with the 10 min stated).
But they have a drawback: Only about half the energy density compared to normal Lithium Ions.
Not to mention that in order to really charge them that fast, you will need a much higher rated, and thus bigger/heavier PSU brick for the notebook...
Re:90% = Bad Marketing? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:a better link (Score:5, Informative)
Even better, this article [marketwatch.com]. More tech specs.
Previously on Slashdot: (Score:4, Informative)
http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/12/13/1714258.shtml [slashdot.org]
Re:Why 90% (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, there is:
Typically, the last few % take a as long as everything before together. Its just that the nature of the chemical reactions involved: During the charge, the battery voltage increases. The charger OTOH cannot push more than 4.2V (for normal batteries) respectively 3.7V for LiFePo4, in order not to damage the cells. This means that effective voltage drops during the charge, and duringe the last bits of capacity, there are only some 0.1V left. Add internal resistance, and its clear why it cannot fill up completely fast
Other comments suggested downrating, but that doesnt really make sense: as long as you leave it in the charger, it will gain charge for a while, so the real capacity is truely higher.
Cycling of lithium ion batteries? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Bullshit Meter (Score:5, Informative)
These batteries are already available, for example see:
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2008_09/pr2401.htm [toshiba.co.jp]
This is a prototype of a *laptop version* of the battery.
so whats new ? (Score:4, Informative)
A123 LiFePO4 batteries have been charged [horizonhobby.com] at 10-15 minute rates by RC crowd for a couple years by now.
Re:a better link (Score:1, Informative)
Its on a Schwinn bike now. I got to ride one last week at the Interbike trade show. This thing kicked ass up the hill and i saw with my own eyes that it charged to 100% in 7 minutes. I believe the Battery on the schwinn had 10 cells. Simply amazing!
Been there Rode that- Schwinn E-bike (Score:1, Informative)
I was one of the lucky few that got to see this battery in action last week at the Interbike show. I can vouch for the Kick ass factor of the Schwinn bike they had it set up on. I saw with my own eyes that the Schwinn battery was charged in 7minutes (although it was done with in a 220 outlet) I was told it would take 30 minutes in a 110v outlet to bring the 10 cell Schwinn battery to a full charge. Not too shabby.
For what its worth, the production cells Toshiba had on display were about the size of a deck of cards. I'm assuming they'll be able to shrink it down to a smaller size for laptops, ipods, etc..
Of interest... (Score:2, Informative)
3. Rapidly rechargeable The superb safety characteristics of SCiB allow recharge with a current as large as 50 amperes (A), allowing the SCiB Cell and SCiB Battery Module to recharge to 90% of full capacity in only five minutes(1).
(my bold) Personally I don't have a 50A jack lying around.
Re:a better link (Score:5, Informative)
only 500 cycles, really? that seems a little low. do they mean that after 500 charges the battery begins to decrease in capacity, or that the battery will start to fail completely after 500 charges? because that seems really really low to me.
i mean, most rechargeable batteries today are Li-ion batteries, right? i just wanna know how many recharges i have left on my PSP.
does it help if you make sure to plug the battery back into the charger before it's out of charge? what can you do or not do to help preserve the capacity and life-span of a li-ion battery?
Li-ion batteries are usually limited by 'calendar' life, not charge cycles - they start losing capacity the moment they are packaged at the factory and generally last a couple of years before they become too weak to use.
However, there are some strategies to extend their life:
1. Keep them cool (but not frozen)
2. Keep them at around 40% charge
Now, this probably isn't too useful for batteries that you are actively using - however, if you have spare lithium batteries lying around that you aren't using at the moment you might want to drain the charge to about 40% and zip them up in ziplock bags and put them in the fridge until you need to use them (check it once in a while to make sure they haven't drained to zero charge because that can kill them).
Also, this means that you should avoid letting your Li-ion batteries get hot unnecessarily, like leaving them in a hot car in the summer.
This is a good reference http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm [batteryuniversity.com]
Re:Of interest... (Score:5, Informative)
Let's use Australian numbers (because I know them):
Available voltage from a standard wall outlet: 240v
Available amps: 10
Using Ohms law (and assuming resistance will remain roughly the same), I should be able to get nearly 100A @ 24v using a step-down transformer. Most laptops have an input of around 19v. As long as the leads can handle the amperage, it shouldn't be an issue.
It's the leads that will be an issue. IIRC, cars need 50-80A @ 12v to start. The leads that come off the battery for the starter motor are pretty big, and they only need to handle that current draw for up to 10 seconds...
Re:Of interest... (Score:5, Informative)
Actually it's quite a bit more than that in a car. You'll see a good 3-500 amps and more depending on engine size, age, temperature and other starting conditions.
In fact, batteries are rated in cold-cranking-amps - i.e. the number of amps they can supply to start the car while cold (probably around freezing, not sure of the exact temp measured at). A hefty battery is rated somewhere around 8-900 CCA.
You're right though - the wiring only needs to support that load for ~10 seconds in a worst-case situation so the conductors don't have to be as heavy as they would otherwise.
Re:Only 500 cycles? (Score:5, Informative)
First, that's 500 *full* cycles. Most people don't completely drain Lithium Ion batteries before recharging them.
Second, that's not 500 cycles until the battery dies, it's 500 cycles before the battery only holds a certain percentage — usually 80% — of it's initial charge.
What also kills Lithium Ion batteries is internal oxidation, which occurs whether the battery is cycled or not. Storing a battery at 100% charge actually causes the battery to lose life as much as five times faster than if the battery was at 50% charge. In other words, if your devices spend most of their time at less than full charge, your batteries will last longer than if you let them sit on the charger for years on end.
Speaking of which, I wish all notebooks, MP3 players, and other gadgets gave you the ability to set a charging limit. I've only seen the feature on some Sony notebooks (they call it a "battery care" utility). If you could limit your devices to, say, a 40% charge when they're just going to be sitting around the house all day, and only charge them up to full when you really need the battery life, you'd probably never need to replace a Lithium Ion battery again.
Re:a better link (Score:5, Informative)
This is basically the same technology AltairNano uses -- a traditional LiCoO2 cathode and a nanotitanate cathode replacing the traditional graphite one. In large format, you get 70-80Wh/kg. It's a little better than NiMH in that regard, but not much. It's also a lot more expensive (AltairNano's are $2/Wh; hopefully a heavy hitter like Toshiba can bring prices down). Where the chemistry shines is everything else. It's incredibly stable, rapid charges, handles a very wide range of operating temperatures, has a ridiculously high power density (~5 kW/kg), fire resistant, highly efficient, and so on down the line.
It's one of a variety of relatively new, commercially available li-ion chemistries, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. When you hear of lithium ion battery packs in electric vehicles, with the exception of Tesla, they're usually these new chemistries, not traditional LiCoO2/graphite cells. The next-gen chemistries look even more impressive, but we'll have to wait for them ;)
Re:a better link (Score:3, Informative)
The benefit of Li-Tit (SCiB) is not density, it's charge time. Li-Tit batteries reach 80+% charge in 90 seconds. Yes, some other batteries hold more charge per volume or charge per weight, but Li-Tit batteries have a MAJOR advantage in automobile use where volume is not as much of an issue as charge time.
The Li-TiT (SCiB) batteries first of all are old news, and I don;t know why this is on /. now. It;s not only old news as far as science, it's old news as in they've been sold on the open market in large volume for over a year!
They were developed primarily with 2 ideas in mind: Being able to be a viable power source for a car (extreme reliability in all temps and a quick charge cycle that's equivolent to the time to fill a conventional gas tank), and for heavy use mobile users who will kill a battery, and although they might have occasional short term access to a power outlet, can't wait an hour to recharge and needed a better option.
Li-Po spinel cells are still Li-Ion technology. The spinel anode can handle high voltage and high temp, allowing larger and fewer cells to deliver the same power. Though this provides slightly better power density, they're costly, subject to overheating (including a much higher probability of causing burns) and are not good in high temp environemtnes (outdoors on summer days). Typically, Spinel based cells also can't replace your existing battery pack as simply replacing the cells is not an option in most notebooks, the batteries have some built in intelligence that helps the notebook use power more eficiently, and without it, even having more power available usually means less battery life.
Re:Of interest... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:a better link (Score:3, Informative)
I wasn't talking about Li-Po. I was talking about two different techs -- lithium iron phosphate and the stabilized manganese-nickel (or other) spinels. These are both cathode techs, not anode; they're both paired with graphite anodes. Example manufacturers of each are A123 and LG Chem. Power densities are generally around 3kW/kg, much higher than traditional li-ion. Energy density is usually 90-110Wh/kg for cells, less for packs -- lower than traditional li-ion's ~160Wh/kg. Neither are subject to overheating, and can be abused to heck and back, including 100% DoD cycles. Both can be charged in 15-20 minutes and discharged in under 10. Both take many thousands of cycles to reach a 20% loss of capacity even at high charge rates, assuming a modicum of climate control on the pack.
Re:a better link (Score:3, Informative)
>>>Li-Ion batteries do NOT degrade with age
"A unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its life span is dependent upon aging (shelf life). From time of manufacturing, regardless of whether it was charged or the number of charge/discharge cycles, the battery will decline slowly and predictably in capacity. This means an older battery will not last as long as a new battery due solely to its age, unlike other batteries." - Wikipedia. Hmmm. Who to believe?
Well I know neither NiCad or NiMH decline with age (just usage), so by process of elimination it must be the Li-Ion battery that ages even when not used.