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Power Hardware

Toshiba To Launch "Super Charge" Batteries 202

Posted by kdawson from the fill-'er-up dept.
ozgood writes in to let us know about Toshiba's announcement that it has developed a new type of rechargeable battery dubbed the Super Charge ion Battery, or SCiB. Toshiba claims the new battery will mainly target the industrial market, though they hint the technology may eventually find a home in electric vehicles. The SCiB can recharge to 90% of total capacity in under five minutes, and has a life span of over 10 years. "Toshiba also says the battery has excellent safety with the new negative electrode material having a high level of thermal stability and a high flash point. The battery is also said to be structurally resistant to internal short-circuiting and thermal runaway."
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Toshiba To Launch "Super Charge" Batteries More

Toshiba To Launch "Super Charge" Batteries

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  • awesome! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Kranfer ( 620510 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @12:35PM (#21685707) Homepage Journal
    Awesome, I would get one of these. I hate sitting in an airport recharging my laptop battery for eons at a time. 10 minutes to get 90% of the charge back eh? I want one now! ::jumps up and down::... Now if only my cell phone could do this too... and my Digital camera, and camcorder too... I like how they point out that it has more safety features too. Although, I am wondering if we will still see these batteries exploding at the most inopportune time... like a presentation on how awesome it is...?

    • Re:awesome! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13, 2007 @12:48PM (#21685909)
      good luck lugging around the power cord you'll need to charge these things

      it won't be that small travel charger and 5A cord

      these things will need power cords roughly the size of the ones you use to connect to a generator or dryer (100A+) to move that many joules of energy that quickly without melting the cord itself. And the AC/DC transformer won't be a little travel wart either.

      in other words, don't hold your breath

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by EntropyXP ( 956792 )
        God, if the laptops from Sony and Apple were blowing up and melting because of defective batteries, imagine a "Super Charge" Battery malfunctioning and melting your ass to the chair!
        • the battery doesn't hold any more energy than the other batteries (more or less). There'd be the same energy release in a failure. NOW, if there's a charging fault when you're connected to that monster circuit... watch out.

      • good luck lugging around the power cord you'll need to charge these things

        And the air conditioner. Even if the power cord doesn't act like a big fuse, the battery will turn into a griddle. Maybe it will incorporate an integrated Peltier plate or something.

      • Re:awesome! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by evanbd ( 210358 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @01:25PM (#21686471)

        So the random laptop battery I have handy is rated 10.8V, 4.8Ah -- 52Wh. 5 minutes for 80% charge (from 10% to 90%, you're unlikely to let it go all the way to zero) is just shy of 500 watts. Your average wall outlet is easily capable of that (12A at 115V is a nice, conservative estimate). The power brick to handle that won't be huge -- think about a 500W computer power supply, and then remember that this will be noticeably smaller and more efficient because it only has to provide one output voltage instead of the mess your average computer wants. It'll need some cooling (even at a mildly aggressive but reasonable 95% efficiency, that's 25W of waste heat), but the fan will still be reasonable.

        At first glance it would appear that the cable from power brick to laptop would be huge and awkward, but that can be solved fairly easily by having the connection be more like a docking station cradle. That would also let the charger supply additional airflow for the battery with a larger fan that you'd find on the laptop itself -- the battery will get rather warm during this process, and battery heating is probably one of the limiting factors on charge rates for something like this.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by misleb ( 129952 )

          So the random laptop battery I have handy is rated 10.8V, 4.8Ah -- 52Wh. 5 minutes for 80% charge (from 10% to 90%, you're unlikely to let it go all the way to zero) is just shy of 500 watts. Your average wall outlet is easily capable of that (12A at 115V is a nice, conservative estimate).

          Sure, but unless you up the DC voltage to the laptop, you're looking at 40A (@ ~12V) through the cord to your laptop. So you'd have a fairly bulky cord. Not a deal killer, but something to consider. Dunno how small you c

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by evanbd ( 210358 )
            You didn't happen to read the remainder of my comment, did you? I offered both a size estimate and a possible solution to the big thick cable problem.

      • Re:awesome! (Score:4, Informative)

        by retiredtwice ( 1128097 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @01:44PM (#21686741)
        Not exactly.

        TFA says it can take 50 amps. It is a lithium cell, therefore 3.6 volts.

        That is 1.6 amps at 120volts. Not a big deal (and yes, I didn't account for conversion losses so say 2 amps max at 120v). Now this is for your cell phone or PDA.

        So, while your wall wart will grow some and will probably end up close to the unit being charged instead of being plugged into the wall, the power cord is fine and you won't be blowing any house breakers.

        Now for your laptop at 20volts which is 5 or 6 cells, you will need 8.8 amps at 120v so say 10 amps total. Still not a deal breaker but you may need 18 ga wire in the power supply to wall connection instead of 20 or 22 ga. The thing that gets big here is the wire ga to the unit itself. Now THAT could be a problem so we will probably not see a full 50 amps into the unit itself. The physical space for the leads inside the cell phone, computer, etc, get a bit large.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by erayd ( 1131355 )
          It's not lithium - according to the Toshiba Press Release [toshiba.co.jp], they completely changed almost every substance in the battery. They also say it has a nominal cell voltage of 2.4V.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by getnate ( 518090 )
        Use a charging station at the airport. You take the battery out of the laptop and insert it into the slot. The charging station could handle all that.
        • Nice idea, unfortunately battery packs come in every shape and size imaginable so it'd be hard to design a charge station to accomodate many or even most of them . . .

          • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

            by flibbajobber ( 949499 )
            Remind us all how many manufacturers are making these batteries again - oh yeah just Toshiba. I'm sure it's quite easy to accommodate the few shapes and sizes they'll make.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by misleb ( 129952 )
        Well, you don't necessarily have to do it in 5 minutes, even 10 woudl be nice. And if you upped teh voltage to 48V or something you wouldn't have to pass much more than 10A. But maybe there'd be some safety concerns with that kind of laptop plug.

         
        • As a bonus, with a 48V power system you'd be able to use telecom systems to charge it in a pinch. ;)

          48V power supplies are readily available, not too expensive, and connectors aren't too bad.

          Though this might end up pushing, at least for stuff like laptops, to put the power supply on/in the computer itself. Somebody mentioned a sled - might not be a bad idea.

    • Re:awesome! (Score:5, Funny)

      by mh1997 ( 1065630 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @12:53PM (#21686013)

      I am wondering if we will still see these batteries exploding at the most inopportune time
      I'd think anytime that you have an unscheduled explosion would be the most inopportune time.

      I can't ever imagine myself saying "I think I'll have a beer, watch the game, and let the battery in my computer blow up."

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AJWM ( 19027 )
        I'd think anytime that you have an unscheduled explosion would be the most inopportune time.

        Well, some times are more inopportune than others.

        Having the battery explode while the computer is sitting on a desk and you're having a beer watching the game is inopportune. Having the battery explode while you're working on the computer and it's in your lap, that's most inopportune.

        • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

          by djasbestos ( 1035410 )
          "Next on the Violence Channel...an all new episode of 'Ow! My Balls!'"

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Kranfer ( 620510 )
          ROFL... who can actually PUT a laptop on their lap nowadays? I can cook eggs on my laptop most of the time. An explosion might make my lobster red legs feel better, hey ya never know?

          • Re:awesome! (Score:4, Informative)

            by afidel ( 530433 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @01:11PM (#21686277)
            Do you have a P4 based laptop or something, or are you running Linux with no power management and doing compiles? Most of my laptops draw 45W peak and the majority of that is for the LCD backlight, the CPU doesn't draw enough power to heat much of anything.

      • Re:awesome! (Score:5, Funny)

        by Takichi ( 1053302 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @01:11PM (#21686265)
        Well, it could explode in the pocket of someone who is about to kill you. I don't think that would be the most inopportune time.
    • My cell phone charges at 1A at 5V - that's a fairly hefty load for a cheap, minuscule wall wart. To get it to recharge in 10 min would take - well - anyone care to lug around a 12-gauge extension cord to deliver the 10A it would take to deliver that much power?

      Alternatively, you could make your power cord really short - build the charger to plug directly into the wall without a cord. But it would still be big.

      What next - I'll be asking for a 408V 1000A 3-phase industrial drop to recharge my electric car in

    • Re:awesome! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Rei ( 128717 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @01:49PM (#21686827) Homepage
      Bah, this is nothing. EEStor's EESU [freepatentsonline.com] ultracapcitor prototype gets charge times like this, a leakage rate of 0.1% per month, virtually no degradation over time, and has over twice the energy density of the best lithium-ion batteries on the market, with half the cost of lead-acid. The science behind it is sound (a lot of these titanates have crazy permittivity from the perspective of individual crystals, and if you can eliminate the voids traditionally left by sintering, as they appear to have done, it can't arc discharge through them when you make bulk ceramics). The economics looks sound, too (nickel electrodes aren't that expensive, nor is anything needed to produce barium titanate). The only real question is whether they can actually commercialize them rather than just make and operate them in the lab (the typical sticking factor). Their mass production facility has hit its milestone for barium titanate purity, as tested by an outside lab, but they haven't yet hit their mass produced ceramic permittivity testing milestone. The company is abnormally tight-lipped; both scammers and legit companies are typically shouting about how great they are in order to get more money, but EEStor is being so quiet that the only way you can generally get info about what's going on is to talk to the company that gets their first units, ZENN Motors.

      Either way, here's to hoping. :) Something like that would basically change the world. Kleiner Perkins Caufield and Beyers (the main funders, a major investment firm famous for early buys on tech companies that made it big -- Amazon.com, AOL, Compaq, Electronic Arts, Google, Intuit, Macromedia, Netscape, Sun, etc) calls it their "highest risk, highest reward" investment. Its a shame that ZENN has the initial exclusive rights to their capacitors for electric vehicles; I find ZENN's vehicles to be the ugliest, least interesting electrics being put on the market.
      • I keep hearing about EEStor's excellet ultracapacitor, but I have one problem with it: It's still vaporware from what I've seen.

        No independent tests of an actual device, no products available for purchase incorporating it, etc...

        The other issue with it is that for those crazy energy densities it requires crazy voltage levels... Not exactly tame for a portable consumer device. At least a car can incorporate additional insulation and devices to regulate the high voltages.
  • And if you leave them charging for too long, they explode. Looks like Sony has a rival...

  • Another article on SCiB (Score:4, Informative)

    by Lord Byron II ( 671689 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @12:40PM (#21685791)
    http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/11/toshiba-launching-scib-batteries-in-march-5-min-charge-10-year [engadget.com]

    According to this article, hybrid cars will be the first use for these batteries.

    As long as the energy density is comparable to current Lithium-ion batteries, then this will be some pretty cool tech.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by proxima ( 165692 )

      According to this article, hybrid cars will be the first use for these batteries.

      I would imagine that this will help speed the adoption of "plugin" hybrids, which let you recharge the batteries off the grid in between drives. Who knows, we might even see the ability to charge up your batteries while you fill up your gas tank, if the charge time is sufficiently short.

      The biggest bonus to plugin hybrids, though, is probably the efficient use of the power grid - people will tend charge their cars at night, wh

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by russotto ( 537200 )

        The biggest bonus to plugin hybrids, though, is probably the efficient use of the power grid - people will tend charge their cars at night, when the load on the electrical grid is lowest.

        No, they'll come home from work and plug in immediately, when the load on the electrical grid is highest (at least during the summer)

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by kcornia ( 152859 )
          That's an easy fix though, electric company incents drivers with a timer they plug into when they get home, but doesn't start drawing power til 12am, etc.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by proxima ( 165692 )

          No, they'll come home from work and plug in immediately, when the load on the electrical grid is highest (at least during the summer)

          As the other responder said, this is easy to fix with a timer. Combine that with time-based electricity rates (kWH which cost a fraction at night of what they do during the day), and the incentives are there for consumers to efficiently use the grid.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by shmlco ( 594907 )
        If you can recharge in a short enough period of time, just skip the hybrid and go straight to all-electric. How about a Wendy's or Starbucks with charging stations? Stop for a bite or a cup of coffee, come back out and get into your fully charged vehicle.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by proxima ( 165692 )

          If you can recharge in a short enough period of time, just skip the hybrid and go straight to all-electric. How about a Wendy's or Starbucks with charging stations? Stop for a bite or a cup of coffee, come back out and get into your fully charged vehicle.

          The problem there is chicken and egg - you'd need a lot of people driving electric cars before there is sufficient demand for Wendy's or Starbucks to put up a metered electrical outlet. People won't want to buy the cars unless they know they can take them

    • Lets say that one drive a vehicle 10,000 miles a year and gets 25 mpg. So that is 400 gallons of gas a year or about $1200 a year. Now lets say that the cost of the electricity is only $200 so a savings of $1,000 a year. Ten years of use than would be $10,000. So if the automobile is only $10,000 more than a gasoline car than there would be no monetary incentive to purchase one. The cost of a used automobile would make the comparison even more difficult for the electric automobile. How much money would

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by samkass ( 174571 )
        If you factor in oil company subsidies, cost to clean up pollution, impact of the oil industry on the areas in which oil is pumped, oil spills, etc... gas probably SHOULD cost $10 a gallon, but we're only charging ourselves 1/3 as much and leaving the rest of the costs to our children in the form of a damaged planet and unstable political world.

        That being said, not destroying our planet is starting to matter to a larger number of people who are willing to take on the extra cost. I know I'd pay disproportio

  • How exactly do you get that much power IN? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by effigiate ( 1057610 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @12:40PM (#21685793)
    If these are large batteries with many AH, how big of a power supply would you need to charge 90% of the battery in ten minutes?
    • More critically, how clean does the charging voltage have to be?

      Suppose my 45 WHr laptop battery could be charged in ten minutes. That's 240W -- say 500W, to account for conversion inefficiencies. The power cord to your hair dryer carries four times this much. That, in itself, isn't the problem.

      The problem is, how much processing do we have to do to mains power to feed it in?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by evanbd ( 210358 )
      The power brick would be about half the size of your desktop's PSU, or a bit less by the time you account for more care toward packing all the components. It'll be more efficient, too, because it only has to output one voltage. And it'll be power factor corrected while they're at it, if they think there's any demand or need for that. 500W worth of power supply circuitry just isn't as big a pain as it used to be. (500W is what it would take to charge a quasi-typical laptop battery from 10% to 90% in 5 mi

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by daybot ( 911557 ) *

      If these are large batteries with many AH, how big of a power supply would you need to charge 90% of the battery in ten minutes?

      Dude, haven't you seen Back to the Future?

  • Problem: top current (Score:5, Informative)

    by mangu ( 126918 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @12:43PM (#21685847)
    TFA says "The SCiB batteries can recharge with as much as 50 amperes of current", which puts a limit on how fast you can charge it. If the capacity is, say, 10 Ah, then you would need 120 A current to charge it in five minutes.

    • Re:Problem: top current (Score:5, Interesting)

      by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) <akaimbatman@gmaiBLUEl.com minus berry> on Thursday December 13, 2007 @12:54PM (#21686017) Homepage Journal
      Presumably, the battery cells of say, a car, could be charged in parallel. So let's say that a recharge takes about 15-20 minutes. Seems that the "pumping station" of the future would take the Convenience Stores of today to their logical conclusion.

      Instead of a few pumps, you see a small parking lot. You pull into a space and hook up the charger. Then you go inside and get a meal, some coffee for the road, or just make a pitstop. You then go to the counter to check if the charge is complete and pay for the electricity you used. Go back out to your car, disconnect the charger, and you're ready to hit the road again.

      • Re:Problem: top current (Score:5, Insightful)

        by WinterSolstice ( 223271 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @01:11PM (#21686267)
        Automotive companies have repeatedly stated that in order to "meet expectations" a car needs to travel roughly 300 miles per "fueling" and the "fueling" needs to take 5-10 minutes at most.

        I think you hit the nail on the head - if they can get a charge down to under 10 minutes and the range up to 200+ miles, it will be quite popular.

        Personally, I'd like to see some sort of inductive charger for batteries like this that I can use for a laptop. Rather than cabling everything up, you just rest your laptop on the mat within range for 10 minutes, and you're good to go.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by JediTrainer ( 314273 )
          Personally, I'd like to see some sort of inductive charger for batteries like this that I can use for a laptop. Rather than cabling everything up, you just rest your laptop on the mat within range for 10 minutes, and you're good to go.

          Now things are getting interesting, with that suggestion. Take it a step further - why not embed these inductive chargers (in cities) right into traffic intersections? Give yourself a boost while you're waiting on the red. If anything, it could be used for everything from c
          • Inductive charging is way cool, but is not very efficient.
          • I can certainly think of some areas where I could get a full charge while in traffic! Interesting idea... I wonder if the safety issues and the cost would outweigh the benefits?

          • Take it a step further - why not embed these inductive chargers (in cities) right into traffic intersections?

            So, why not go all the way embed them all over along roads and streets? Do away with batteries entirely, except for very short stretches? All-terrain vehicles and others that need to drive in dirt roads could be hybrids.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Firethorn ( 177587 )
          True for a conventional system, but it's also for a power source involving a highly flammable, even explosive, liquid that requires at least a little attention during fueling, as well as large tanks to hold it(unless you want to deal with long pipes).

          A cassettes/VHS tape at least used to have advantages over CD/DVDs, but CD/DVDs won despite being different.

          For example, people might only be willing to wait 5-10 minutes while gassing up their car, but that's partially because it's their primary activity durin

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by shmlco ( 594907 )
        "You then go to the counter to check if the charge is complete and pay for the electricity you used."

        As long as you're setting things up from scratch, why not go a step further and put some sort of RFID system/sensor into the car/charger. Just stop anywhere, plug in your car, and electricity is automatically billed to your account.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by euxneks ( 516538 )
        That sounds a bit like Starbucks might want to get into that. They're already selling music, why not energy.
      • If this type of technology were to really take off, it would quickly obsolete the need for traditional gas stations. Virtually any business that requires at least 5-10 minutes of your time and has their own parking could install charging meters. Assuming these batteries don't easily take on a memory for partial charging, widespread use of charging stations could mean you top off every time you park your vehicle if you want. Parking garages, parking meters, grocery stores, malls, etc. Besides long trips, I

    • TFA says "The SCiB batteries
      Just coined and it has already joined ATM machine and PIN number in its redundancy. Even in TFA's title. (I was tempted to say "TFA's article title".)

      The remaining question is: is it pronounced skeeb, skihb, skyb, seeb, sib, sighb, or throatwarbler mangrove?

  • Amps without volts (Score:5, Informative)

    by Dan East ( 318230 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @12:52PM (#21685989) Journal
    The article makes reference to amperage, but without voltage that value is basically meaningless. Now if they were talking wattage then we would know exactly how much power these batteries produce (and consume during charging).

    Dan East

  • Cordless contractor equipment (Score:3, Interesting)

    by afidel ( 530433 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @01:00PM (#21686097)
    I would think one of the first uses for this type of thing would be for contractor grade cordless powertools. With current battery tech any heavily used battery lasts less than 2 years with the kind of abuse construction guys give em. Of course you're going to need one heck of an extra alternator to charge em that quickly, more likely a separate generator.
    • Yeah, but part of the problem with current contractor equipment is naive charging circuitry that does nothing to prevent over-charging or over-draining, and has a button for "deep cycle" even though the chemistry doesn't recommend that.

  • Poor energy density (Score:5, Insightful)

    by loshwomp ( 468955 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @01:15PM (#21686329)
    Disclaimer: IAAEVE (I am an electric vehicle engineer), so my analysis is biased toward vehicle applications.

    According to the specs on their own website [toshiba.co.jp], the energy density for their modules is about 50 watthours per kilogram (24V * 4.2Ah / 2.0kg). At 50 Wh/kg they're barely competing with lead-acid batteries, and competing quite poorly with Nickel-metal batteries, which are near 100 Wh/kg and have proven safety and durability in vehicle applications.

    Modern Li-ion cells (the ones that aren't even remotely pushing the safety envelope) are over 200 Wh/kg.
    • I knew there was a catch... now I don't have to RTFM!
    • Good sir! Since you're an EVE, and I'm an EE in training, I was wondering if you could answer a quick question for me. Would using a capacitor of significant size inline with a traction pack on a hybrid allow the motor to draw more current for short bursts without putting strain on the traction battery from heavy drain?

      traction battery -> capacitor -> electric motor

    • Because of their poor discharge behavior, the life of lead acid batteries falls rapidly with the depth of discharge. So for marine use, where the batteries are cycled once or twice daily, even a 50% discharge will kill them in a year. Traction and so-called deep cycle batteries really aren't that economic.

      If I could replace my 80Kg of domestic batteries with their effective 1440 watt hours of discharge for long life, with 80kg of these giving 4000 WH, I would be able to run twice as long with the same real

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by James McP ( 3700 )
      I guess the question is if there are any times that power generation within a hybrid exceeds the recharge rate of Ni or Li batteries. If so, it might be worth using the SciB as a "cache" to absorb the momentary power spikes. Of course, then you have to compare the SciB against capacitors.

  • Energy Density 180kJ/kg (Score:4, Informative)

    by DanielRavenNest ( 107550 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @01:19PM (#21686393)
    I calculated the energy density from Toshiba's specs for a module containing multiple cells plus some charging electronics. This works out to about twice the figure for a deep-cycle lead-acid car battery.

  • It's a good thing they didn't have to use anions: Super Charge Anion Battery just might not make as good an acronym.

  • Batteriy capacity is NOT why the burn (Score:5, Informative)

    by BlueParrot ( 965239 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @01:28PM (#21686531)
    Ok, over and over again I see the same nonsense. "Lithium batteries burn because they contain lots of energy".

    If this was the case a discharged battery would be safe, yet it contains just as much lithium as when it was charged, meaning it is still a fire hazard. The problem with lithium ion batteries is NOT their electrical energy density, it is the low activation energy of the chemicals they are made of.

    To really put this in perspective, your cutlery and pots all contain A LOT of chemical potential energy. Burning iron in air releases vast quantities of it. Of course, because steel has a very good heat conductivity, and as the activation energy is high, you can't really set a piece of steel on fire at normal temperatures. If, on the other hand, you were to grind that iron into a fine powder, then you better make sure not to bring it close to sources of ignition as it will explode into a fireball.

    Similarly, iron oxide doesn't burn in air because it is already oxidised, but if you mix it with aluminium powder, a strong reducing agent, then you got a Thermite mix which will burn at such a high temperature that it is little you can do but wait until it has completed. Even choking it doesn't work since it contains its own oxidiser.

    The reason lithium ion batteries can catch fire is simply that lithium is easy to ignite. If the energy recoverable from a battery was directly related to how strongly it burns, then you would most certainly see batteries made from titanium or aluminium, and not lithium ( which releases a lot less energy when combusted than does many other metals ).

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by evanbd ( 210358 )

      Except that Lithium Ion batteries don't actually contain metallic lithium. They contain lithium ions -- ie, the lithium is already oxidized. That's true for both the charged and discharged state. Some other metal (cobalt traditionally, I think iron and a couple others are used in newer experimental chemistries) is being oxidized and reduced. Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] has more about the relevant electrochemistry.

      Non-rechargable lithium cells (most 3V coin type cells) have metallic lithium. The rechargable chemistries

  • Interesting thought:

    Let's say I have a biodiesel powered, water cooled generator (so that I can use the excess heat to warm my house or water or ?) or a wind-turbine, or some other peaking power source providing most of my house juice, along with a bank of these batteries. Plus the ability to use the house pack to charge a hybrid electric family vehicle with say a sixty mile range before I have to kick in the car's bio-diesel driven engine. Or vice versa: the vehicle's bio-diesel engine can be used to charg

  • OK, if you have a 1 amp/hr battery that you want to charge in 5 minutes you have to provide
    at least 12 amps of charging current (14 gauge wire). A laptop with a 5 amp/hr battery would require 60 Amps to
    charge (That's 6 gauge wire needed!).

  • Regenerative Braking (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Nom du Keyboard ( 633989 ) on Thursday December 13, 2007 @03:46PM (#21687880)
    I think what would make these super for cars is that they would appear able to handle any regenerative braking load placed on them. I don't believe you can say that about the current cells in use.
  • ditch stock in Shell, exxon, ...

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