Fuel-Cell Car Racing Series Aims To Spur Green Motoring 254
Anonymous Cow writes "The world's first international fuel-cell powered motor racing series kicked off in Rotterdam over the weekend. The organisers hope that 'Formula Zero,' like Formula 1, can become a forum for competing technology as much as anything else, helping green consumer cars to become better."
Re:Not pompous enough (Score:4, Insightful)
or until they actually drive a electric sports car. I think they'll change their minds then :)
Re:Definitely would help image (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not sure the ipod will ever catch on. No wireless, less storage than a nomad - lame.
While I'm at it, I'm sure that man will never fly. That's the realm of angels and birds.
Oh, hold on, you mean those bicycle mechanics were actually on to something?
It's odd that on a place like Slashdot, it's seen as cool to by cynical, and cynical is seen as non-critically putting down anything that hasn't been out and about for 5+ years. Who would have thought 10 years ago that Formula 1 would be leading the way in development of mechanical (flywheel) hybrid powertrain systems?
Um...yeah. (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't get me wrong: most hobbies, including mine, are a waste of energy. Rather, I / someone gets enjoyment in return for the energy expenditure...but in the end, little / no actual work is done.
Even if a NASCAR race can be done with 1 gallon of gas...in the end, 1 gallon is gone, and all the cars are where they started.
Parent has a point: Troll or not. (Score:3, Insightful)
We all know the BS about ethanol and how it takes more energy (all oil) to just to grow the corn than you get from burning it and that doesn't even include the distillation and shipping costs!
Re:Definitely would help image (Score:3, Insightful)
Whoa, troll? Didn't see that one coming! It was meant to be a serious point - uncritically destroying every new technology is no better than hand waving beliefs in "technology will solve all our problems."
The first flight was hardly in a useful plane, yet 15 years of development later, we had large, multi passenger transport planes. Just a point.
Re:Not pompous enough (Score:2, Insightful)
Very true. It's been said that a Prius is delivered with the carbon-emissions equivalent of 20,000 miles already on the clock, due the the extremely high technology and manufacturing costs.
Assuming it uses 2/3 of the fuel, this 'debt' is only paid off once 40k miles are on the clock. And at 50-60k, you'll need to replace the batteries, at a cost of around $10,000 (and who knows how many carbon-miles that's equivalent to).
So yes, the Prius isn't the green saviour people maybe think it is. But it is being taken seriously, selling in large numbers and helping to mature the technology to a point where it can be more useful.
And there are other technologies on the horizon (from the minimal manufacturing costs and fully recyclable mechanical flywheel systems to the fuel cells mentioned in the summary) which may have much more scope for genuinely reducing the lifecycle emissions of vehicles.
Re:Definitely would help image (Score:4, Insightful)
Did I say that fuel cell was a dead technology that won't go anywhere?
No. Quite the contrary - I think it is a very promising technology that has great potential.
However, the GP I was replying to said that maybe this will help the "image" of alternatively-fueled vehicles. And frankly, a bunch of tiny go-karts doesn't have much hope of beefing-up the wimpy image of the Insight, Prius, etc.
Re:Definitely would help image (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you do not deserve your 'insightful' one bit. Development platforms for a new technology do not have to be related in shape or function to the end product.
The length of the road on which they function has nothing to do with the length that they could be going to on real roads.
These are just abstractions, and in fact simplify the development process considerably. Think about how much more costly this would be if all these experimental vehicles had to conform to regular road standards and had to take a full complement of passengers.
just wondering..at what point... (Score:2, Insightful)
...would the gallon of gas have to reach before you'd reconsider something other than that? $10 a gallon, $15? And how about rationing (which I remember occurring before), if it ever got that that, say you could only get a few gallons a week due to some expanded mideast war disrupting huge amounts of the global supply? The reason I ask is I see this sort of sentiment a lot, the 500 mile range drawback, but I am wondering how often people actually drive that sort of distance on a regular basis, say at least once a week or so. My point is, for regular around town and commuting, I don't think you (a very general "anyone you") need that sort of range, and for the odd trip, there are always rentals.
F ... Zero? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Definitely would help image (Score:5, Insightful)
cars that look like the prius don't help this.
So if people can see electric cars with real performance that would even surpass the petrol counterpart it should make people more likely to change.
Just a tought, but maybe the major car makers WANT this? It seems to me that they produce ugly,slow cars that won't appeal to the masses with a reason. After all, electric cars need much, MUCH less maintenance and spare parts than a petrol car ... Lets hope the smaller manufacturers see the gap in the market.
Re:F ... Zero? (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm thinking this is a result of the expense and interest in the technology. The expense to build one of these cars is greatly reduced by making it a go-kart. If this type of race can raise interest you then get your big players and corporate sponsorship to fund R&D in big boy cars.
Re:Definitely would help image (Score:2, Insightful)
I didn't mod you, but I'd have said it was your delivery. Being a jackass doesn't win you positive karma, regardless of you message.
Don't believe me? Did being called a jackass get you a little riled up? Did you miss the rest of the message on your first read?
Re:Definitely would help image (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, cause the Prius' looks are clearly stopping every single one from being sold the day it comes into the dealer. Clearly, the Prius looks longingly at the turnaround time for truck inventory [gminsidenews.com].
Re:just wondering..at what point... (Score:3, Insightful)
You answered your own question from a point of ignorance. You can't understand why USians are crying about petrol at $5 per US gallon because I don't think you understand what it is like to live here. #1, most of the US population does not live within metropolitan areas well served by public transportation. Most of us *can't* put the car in the garage because it is easier or quicker on the train. The trains don't exist. Moving from the suburbs/country to the city is not easy. It is much easier to whine about the cost of fuel.
If you only need a car that can accelerate from 0 - 90 in a reasonable time (why 90? Don't you know that traveling at a slower speed is more fuel efficient? How wasteful of you!) then I propose that we need no more new cars. Heck, even a VW Golf from 1978 had that type of performance and got 35 miles per gallon.
Anyway, you don't need transportation. But there are plenty of people who do, or at least think they do. Infrastructure doesn't spring up overnight, and given the distances in this country, it is unlike to be a 100% solution when it gets here, but if fuel prices continue to rise I think there will be more public transporation.
BTW, I started taking the bus to work a few months ago. I drive 6 miles roundtrip per day to a commuter lot, then spend 45 minutes on a bus each way. Overall my commute time is 30 minutes longer per day but infinitely more enjoyable. So I agree in concept that people would be better off finding a mass transit option, if one exists, and pushing for one where it doesn't.
Re:just wondering..at what point... (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, the UK has a well-developed mass transit system, small towns with a variety of stores close together, and walkable cities.
The US has residential suburbs a couple miles from the supermarket which is a couple miles from downtown which is a couple miles from Walmart. You can consider us well ahead of the curve once Star Trek transporters become the normal mode of travel.
Re:Definitely would help image (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually, that's one of the reasons that it has sold so well. The distinctively "ugly" look of the car shouts I care about the environment, and that's what the hybrid buyers are really after. It's all about the smug sense of self satisfaction that can only be achieved by letting everyone else know how smart and forward thinking you are.
Re:Um...yeah. (Score:3, Insightful)
and a bunch of people had a hell of a time.
You're making no point here at all. YOU came from dust and will someday be dust again and ultimately will have gone nowhere and, in the end, lots and lots of gallons of gas are gone.
Re:just wondering..at what point... (Score:3, Insightful)
not likely. The US is existing in its current form by the grace of cheap fuel more so than any other country. It has one of the lowest prices of fuel in the world, but at the same time the average standard of living is substantially behind the rest of the developed world.
In the long run that is an unsustainable model.
If you will not be prepared to move closer to where your work is (or generate work closer to you) then the third alternative is to be unemployed, which will quickly break the system.
I really don't think drilling for oil or pursuing alternative fuels is going to stop all of this trend from happening. Whether you personally will be touched depends very much on circumstance but I think that on average more people will be influenced by this than not.
Think of the cheap oil as a cosmic loan, one that allowed us to jumpstart an enormous amount of industry but which eventually runs out. The time to plan to avoid the current trend was roughly 30 years ago, the crunch is - at least in my opinion - unavoidable now. The effects are already very visible, and they'll get a lot worse before they'll get better again. Relocation is going to be a breeze compared to some of the alternatives.