6 Major Pre-Production Electric Vehicles Compared

rbgrn writes with a review of six major pre-production electric vehicles. The review offers an easy side-by-side comparison of these six cars with projected release dates of either 2008 or 2010. "With all of the hype surrounding hybrid vehicles today, I thought I'd do some research and post my findings on the next generation of fully electric and plug-in hybrids. The fully-electric EV has had a bad name in the past, mostly due to insufficient battery technology, politics, lack of performance models and other factors. Starting this year with the Tesla Roadster, the EV is going to take on a new form in the eyes of John Q Public. Quiet, efficient EVs will start to become commonplace in the next few years as major manufacturers go into production with the newest generation of vehicle sporting more powerful motors, efficient generators and the latest battery technology."

Re:Cost? energy 1/10th gas cost

[WillAffleckUW]

It depends where you live. In large portions of the US, we use this new-fangled thing called hydro-electric power, and we supplement it with wind power. So, our basic cost is less than 7 cents per KWh. Other areas of the US use different energy supplies - Vermont is mostly Hydro with nuclear (used to own Green Mountain Power), and much of the Northeast uses imported hydro power with nuclear and some coal.

Some places generate and sell their own power from home or farm based wind turbines and solar cells - especially in the West.

So the cost of the energy ranges from $3 a gallon (cheap in the West) for gas to $0.30 gallon equivalent for electricity in coal states to $0.04 gallon equivalent for electricity in the Northwest.

At that point, the cost of retrofitting - which is less than $5000 if done by Honda or Toyota (which sell plug-in hybrids in Japan even if not in the US yet) or Lexus, or $15,000 if you use say one of the three conversion businesses in my county alone (King County in Washington state) - is price compatible if you commute to work nearby.

Of course, you could do what Willie Nelson is doing and go plug-in bio-diesel with your truck, or even convert a classic Cadillac to get more than 80 mpg using an efficient bio-diesel engine with plug-in hybrid electric power tuned to the make and model.

Some people talk.

Other people do.

P.S.: If you're on facebook and use the I Am Green app, there's a We Are Green Seattle [facebook.com] group you can join now. Let's beat out Vancouver BC and San Francisco CA!

Re:The Aptera is cool looking

[TomorrowPlusX]

Series-hybrids like the Volt are also appealing to city folk like me, who don't have a garage to recharge a pure electric car in.

As much as I'd love for my next car to be pure electric, I also love living in the city. I'm not rich, and can't afford a place with a garage or some other dedicated parking, so gas ( or some other combustible ) is it for the time being. Of course, in 50 years I'm hoping that municipal charging stations and super-efficient solar panels ( on the roof of the car ) may alleviate this a little.

Have you ever done 0-60 in 2.5 seconds?

[Colin Smith]

how long until they come standard with warp drives?

It's about as close to warp drive as you're ever going to see. Even jumping out of a plane doesn't have quite the same effect where there are no objects nearby to relate your speed to.

Hell, even the initial electric vehicles like the Tesla are sub 4 seconds for acceleration.

http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/acceleration_and_torque.php [teslamotors.com]

Mwhahahahahaha... I want one...

 

Conservation still key

[antifoidulus]

It's amazing how hyped up all these new technologies are, and yet in the long run the best way to save energy is behavioral modification, not necessarily technological innovation(though that isn't bad either). It's amazing how many people in the states still refuse to do this little thing called carpool. 6 people in a gas guzzling SUV is still more efficient than if they all took their own Priuses(or however you make that plural). Not to mention the fact that in the US, something like over 80% of all car trips are less than 2 miles and yet bikers are looked down upon as if they are worthless pieces of trash(and respected accordingly). It still seems that in the states if you aren't driving, you are defective and your life isn't worth the effort of giving you your legal space on the road.

Not to mention technologies like motor scooters that can get over 100 miles/gallon(depending on how you drive them) that many people refuse to use, probably for the same reason as noted above. Conservation is still the best form of alternative energy, and yet I wonder how long it is going to take before Americans realize that!

Re:My fear

[CambodiaSam]

As my username might suggest, I actually do get out to Cambodia once a year. There's a big stigma there with Propane cars. Apparently you can retrofit a standard car to run on propane, but there have been some instances of cars exploding in gigantic fireballs that have soured most people on the concept. This is in a place where landmines are still a threat, so people tend to be rather cautious in general. Even with high gas prices they still won't do it, and there a $1 a liter can be the difference between feeding your family or begging on the street.

Americans however are probably not that diligent in their fear. Anyone here have a problem buying Firestone tires?

Electric Gas Can?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, it's 2:00 am and I'm a mile from home when my electric car runs out of joules. What is the electric equivalent of a gas can?

Re:Where do you get your numbers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dont' forget the tesla has a $25,000 battery pack, which is good for about 500 charges. Less if in you live a very cold or hot climate. So each time you fill up, you are paying a $50 depreciation cost on the battery. Beyond 500 cycles, the battery capacity diminishes with each charge. The 250 mile range of the Tesla might be just 120 miles at 700 cycles. Acceleration is limited, too, as internal cell impedance rises.

Multi-energy clean cars

[courteaudotbiz]

Well, I've been struggling to get my ideas through many EV manufacturers, but no one seems to be interested in increasing the range of electric vehicles in efficient ways. Here is my point: Instead of having to wait 'til the next power outlet to refuel a fully electric car every 120 miles running exclusively on the power stored in batteries, why not "help" it by generating some power with what is available along the way? I mean, some people tried solar powered vehicles, others tried power generation while you coast, but what about a combination of it all, and more! You have a lot of forces interacting while you drive, and one could use everything available! Imagine an electric vehicle, with solar panels on top, one motor in each wheel which generates power while you coast, power generating shock absorbers (and here in Quebec, Canada, roads are bumpy!), and why not a set of fans, which would be hidden while accelerating or cruising, but showing up while coasting and breaking to generate some extra power? Only one of these is not enough to make a significant difference, but all of them combined, if it does make a 20% to 30% difference, would get pretty interesting... I've seen a concept not that far from this, but not using efficiently everything available. It's called the Venturi Eclectic, made by Venturi (www.venturi.fr). Not too bad, but the windmill on the top looks awful, and is a little prone to vandalism...

parasitic loads

[iron spartan]

First generation hybrids are hyped a little too much for me. While they do improve on "in town" and stop and go mileage, their combined hi way and city mileage isn't all that impressive when compared with other economy vehicles. Right now, for single passenger commuting, motorcycles and scooters rein supreme in the mileage game. I really like the idea of the Volt and other plug in hybrids. The engine powers a generator, which drives an electric motor. This is actually a proven technology as it has been used to power freight trains for a few decades. My largest problems with Electric Only vehicles is the huge load that is needed to run things like climate control. I don't know about you, but many of us live in areas where we need heat for at least part of the year. A/C is an even larger drain. How far can a car that can drive 300 miles on a full charge make it when its below freezing and a heater needs to going full blast just to stay comfortable? How much do things like loads from radios and GPS systems and other electronic devices that we use on a daily basis shorten the range? My other problem with EO vehicles is the recharge time. I mostly drive 20 miles one way, but do go on long road trips. I hate the hassle of flying. I've driven coast to coast before, sometimes going 18 hours or more at a stretch. Having to be stopped for longer than I would be driving really limits the appeal of an EO vehicle.

Venture Vehicles (V1)

[suggsjc]

Why did they not mention the V1 from Venture Vehicles? Here [flytheroad.com] is the latest update from them that has some of the sketches of their design proposals. They are still targeting a 2009Q2 release (I hope they hit it), which is before 4 of the 6 vehicles listed.

It could just be me as that is about the only electric vehicle that I follow or care about, but I have a sneaking suspicion that TFA didn't do as much homework as they should have (I know, I know...and no I'm not new here, relatively speaking).

Re:And if you don't have a garage?

[Anonymous Coward]

Likewise, the stated mileage doesn't sound like it takes into account things like being stuck on the freeway for hours while your engine is still idling and consuming power or being stuck in downtown traffic so, while you're unlikely to be driving your full range daily, it seems just as likely that with greater urban congestion you'll be running through a lot of power while you don't manage to actually go very far making the need for frequent recharging necessary.

Electric cars don't need to idle. They waste no power when stopped (except power for accessories like the stereo).

Mercedes is working on a technology that stops their gasoline engines at idle too, restarting them when you press the gas. They expect it to show big gains, but aren't bringing it to the US because the gains would not be reflected on the EPA's test because of the particular test protocol.

Re:Tesla

[ultranova]

Unfortunately that wouldn't be just a dedicated circuit; it'd probably be a dedicated drop, or you'd at least have to get your standard 200A service bumped to 300A. If everyone on the block gets one the power company probably isn't going to be able to provide that much power for a while.

A possible solution would be to make the battery easily and mechanically replaceable - a module. Drive to a service station, exchange the nearly empty battery into a fully charged one, and leave the old one to charge. That way you wouldn't need high-power electric lines everywhere.

Re:parasitic loads

[Fzz]

With a gasoline-powered car, how much worse does your fuel consumption get when you turn on the A/C? Well, an electric car requires a similar amount of energy to move it to a gas-powered car. So, to a first approximation, your electric car range will be reduced by a similar fraction to the reduction in range you get with a gas-powered car when you switch on the A/C.

Heating is perhaps more of an issue, because waste heat on a gas-powered car is similar to the usable power output, so you've got a lot of heat spare. But assuming you use a heat-pump to do the heating, and pump waste heat from the electric motors and battery packs, then likely it won't be much different from the A/C problem. We're talking about vehicles in the 40KW continuous power output range (peak of 100KW). Assume you get 90% efficiency (which would be pretty good), then you've still got 4KW of waste heat in the motors and batteries. If you can capture say half of that using a heat-pump, you can still be toasty-warm.

Summary: not completely negligible, but probably only a few percent difference to the range.

What,

[robi2106]

What, No Tango from Commuter Cars? [commutercars.com] That is the one I'm looking for. I've got no room in my garage for my car (bicycle stuff and other crap) and the Tango is just what i need for small commuting (98% of my driving).

Heh, of course if I had a Tango I would bicycle to work less......

Re:My fear

[Martin Blank]

As long as you're bringing up the consequences of failure modes, it should be noted that the most common result from a gas tank failure is the need for the local road crews to bring out sand to absorb it before letting traffic back into the lane. Gas tanks are pierced fairly commonly in collisions, but carbeques are the exception, not the rule.

Re:Tesla

[Squalish]

The module would require a crane to remove, or ten minutes of gruntwork if broken into smaller chunks.

Re:My fear

[Squalish]

I don't know about mainstream lithium ion safety, but the nanolithium set - comprised of A123, Altairnano, and a few others, are claiming (and backing it up with videos of, say, nails being driven into their products) to be quite safe, in addition to having remarkably high power, being safe for full discharge, and fast-charging.

That's why one of the big vehicles that got overlooked in TFA, the Venture One [flytheroad.com], decided to go with them. It's an evolution of the dutch Carver [wikipedia.org], but as a slightly larger serial hybrid (small engine, small high-power battery, big electric inwheel motors). The pitch is:

• 3 wheels with power tilting "Carving" feature
• 2 passenger
• 100mpg
• 100mph sustained speeds
• 0-60 in 7 seconds or less
• 350 mile range
• Safety features equal to or exceeding a small car with rollcage, but still classified as a motorcycle in the US
• less than $20k

I was hazy on its stability until I saw a video of its predecessor the Carver doing a 180 powerslide-stop in a parking lot [youtube.com] in scarcely its own bodylength. It's being developed more on a venture-capital model than on a conventional automaker schedule, but it will be launching sometime in 2009. They're taking a LOT of feedback on their forums, and I get the feeling most of the features that weren't inherent to the Carver are going to have been implemented because of forum support.

Make that only 4, GM will be bankrupt before 2010

[Anonymous Coward]

Due to many bad years and the biggest quarterly loss in history in Q3 2007, GM's book value is currently NEGATIVE $73.82 per share. With little hope of a turnaround before cash on hand runs out, junk bond credit ratings, and the implosion of ResCap due to huge sub-prime losses, the GM Chevy Volt and GM Opel Flextreme aren't likely to see the light of day.

However, GM is currently making excellent deals on their obesemobiles, so there's that to look forward to...