Latest Crop of MP3 Players

Anonymous Coward writes "A couple of interesting new MP3 portables were announced this week. The first one is Bantam's BA1000 that has near-identical size and weight dimensions to the iPod, but offers a number of features the older Apple doesn't like the ability to record from an internal FM radio. Choosing to offer the player in only 2GB and 5GB capacities, it looks like it is shooting to be the first sub $200 portable utilizing Toshiba's petite 1.8" drives. The other player announced was Samsung's Yepp YP-55, which claims to be the first Surround Sound MP3 flash portable. Using SRS Labs' surround sound simulator, the unit comes in 128MB and 258MB units. MP3newswire.net also offers an older, but nicely explained article on how this technology works using only two headphones to replace six speakers."

What about Frontier Labs?

[zonix]

... Surround Sound MP3 flash portable

Come on, geeez!!! :-)

On a more interesting note, Frontier Labs [frontierlabs.com] recently released their new MP3 player, the NEX IA. From the site:

Supports multiple formats (MP3 and WMATM) and emerging formats such as Ogg Vorbis through firmware upgrades.

It's almost official then, go OGG! Can't wait!

z

2 Gig 2 Small

[malia8888]

It is amazing how fast I filled up my own iPod with 5 Gigs of sound. Go for the player with the largest capacity one can afford. In this case size really matters.

Neuros Player Soon...

[SWroclawski]

All I know is tha the Neuros [neurosaudio.com] upgrade will be out soon that will let me use it in GNU/Linux *and* be the first portable hardware player that can do Ogg Vorbis, and in the future, Ogg Speex and FLAC.

I've waited years for these features, and soon my wait will be over.

If there were another player with the same features out now, I'd buy that.

Oh, and the Neuros will also let you record from FM and has a low-range FM broadcast so you can use it in your car.

- Serge Wroclawski

Re:blah

[PhoenixK7]

While walking, I've never had it skip once. In fact I use it to listen to music while walking between classes, work, home, etc.. Running it does OK, though you may need to pause every 20 mins or so (length of skip protection) for it to buffer up more tracks. I haven't had it skip on me while jogging though.

So far battery life has been good (especially with the latest firmware), transfers are speedy, the interface is simple and elegant. I really haven't had any trouble with it :)

This is with a 10 GB iPod I purchased in January.

Re:Next Gen

[spike hay]

I would love to see companies incorporate colour screens that could provide the ability for video to be displayed since the storage is already there.

Try this. [thinkgeek.com] It holds 20 gigs, and has a small color screen for displaying divx. Only $359. Not a bad deal, considering the price of the iPod.

Re:blah

[js62]

My ipod is a year and a half old. I use it mostly on long runs and bike rides. Never had a problem with it other than it doesn't have a long battery life below 40 deg F.

FM Radio in Headphones makes iPod best still ...

[adzoox]

I really think if you want an FM radio you should buy some that are integrated into the headphones. You can practically pay for a set if you sell the iPod headphones on eBay [ebay.com]. Sony makes these [ebay.com] and Radio Shack makes and sells several as well. (Headphones with built in tuner, some for AM FM TV Weather that also have line out)

The iPod has yet to be beaten in my opinion, when comparing features the iPod's firewire interface (slower in theory, but not real world tests than USB 2.0), Amazingly simple integration and hard drive DATA capability are excluded. Plus they have great quality and have an INSANE number of support products and now battery [ipodbattery.com] & hard drive replacement services on the cheap.

I would hold off on any MP# purchase to see if the newest iPods will be compatible with a new Apple Music service possibly later this month.

I fully expect the new iPods to surpass anything on the market with a twist (as the the current ones do) for another year upon introduction.

Re:What about Frontier Labs?

[ahaning]

I'd just like to point out, since I was confused about this once, as well, that OGG is just a containter format and Vorbis is the audio codec. You could just as well have an ogg file with mp3 data inside.

AVI is also a container format. Thus, you'll see lots of different codecs inside. These days, some incarnation of Divx is what people put in AVIs.

Price comparison vs iPod?

[CorporatePunk]

the only price i could find for the new line of bantam players was the 5gb model for $329 (granted, the product is not for sale yet, so this is probably not set in stone), while a 5gb iPod will only cost you $300. If they introduced this new line of players to compete with the iPod, which was pretty obviously their intent, wouldnt they think that it is a good idea to price their products competitively? They add some new features, and promise some more in future models, but what makes this device a better buy than a similarly sized iPod, which has been proven to be a great product?

The iPod is durable

[jadriaen]

I'd want to hear some 'torture-test' stories (like, you know, using it while walking...) from some I-Pod owners

Well, my first generation 5 GB iPod still works fine, after one year and a half. No complaints whatsoever. I use my iPod while cycling, walking, sitting on the bus. I've put them in a Xtrememac case [xtrememac.com] (the 5 Gig model does not come with a case, the others do). The most extreme situations my iPod has been through (besides of residing in my pants-pocket while cycling), is falling of the table sometimes. It needs the case, I suppose, but it came out just fine. So if you ask about the durability, I think you're quite safe with an iPod.

From a happy iPodder.

Re:Colour me confused

[Ignominious Cow Herd]

Your head is constantly moving. Even a tiny little bit. Your ears and brain are very sensitive to this and can easily tell whether sounds are in front of you or behind you. This is why surround sound is better than stereo and why normally headphones are not as good (the sounds always move with your head).

How they simulate this with 2 speakers would probably entail simulating these movements with the sound itself, but I'm not sure.

The reason you cannot usually tell the direction that Bass comes from (and why the location of your subwoofer is not important) is that the sound wave is bigger than your head and hits both ears more or less at the same time. You need your head as a baffle to separate sounds a bit so you can at least tell left from right. Sounds from one side have to reflect off of something else and hit the opposite ear a little later. Add the small head movements and you get front/back differentaition.

Re:What about Frontier Labs?

[sketerpot]

Not even sure I can buy an mp3 encoder that will work under Linux, I might be wrong.

I don't know if you can buy an mp3 encoder that works under linux either---but I know you can download LAME [sourceforge.net], which will do the trick nicely. And yes, Flac support would be very nice.

Re:Neuros Player Soon...

[SWroclawski]

I've tried one in my apartment. I had a lot of interference from nearby equipment and couldn't use it. It's really designed for a car, and it's probably okay for that. Put the player on the dashboard, it only would have to transmit a small distance to the reciever.

Re:What about Frontier Labs?

[llin]

I just pre-ordered my NEX ia a few days ago (it doesn't ship for a few more days; $130 + s/h for a NEX ia + 128MB CF [mydigitaldiscount.com]) - my NEX II served me well for two years and just recently died. One neat feature is that it does do 64kbps MP3 recording w/ an internal mic. I was originally looking for a decent MP3 recorder, but unfortunately, one doesn't exist (the only ones that have level meters for example are $1000+ bulky pro units).

Anyway, I posted some research on my blog [randomfoo.net] which might be of interest:

My old NEX II [frontierlabs.com] MP3 player just recently died on me. I started taking it apart, and it looks like I might be able to do some soldering to possibly get it working, but chances are slim (approximately corresponding to my soldering skills). It looks like the new NEX ia [frontierlabs.com] is coming out though, with voice/FM recording, better firmware, and possible Ogg Vorbis support, among other things. I sent an email to see what the recording quality is (hopefully with line-in capabilities), and to see if some slightly annoying NEX II bugs have been fixed.

From correspondence w/ Frontier Labs [frontierlabs.com]:

• improvements: multiple folder support, alphabetical song listing, more buffering, improved shuffle (but no m3u support, so you'll want to keep your CopyNex [flarp.net] handy - see also: FATSort [passagen.se], PlaylistExpander [passagen.se])
• Ogg Vorbis is actually being worked on, for the NEX II's as well as the NEX ia and will be released as a firmware upgrade
• 64Kbps recording (can record at higher bitrates, but no selection mechanism in the firmware right now)
• No (recording) level-meter
• No line-in, the only external input is the built-in voice recording microphone
• Can play back MP3 files at the same time as recording

Perception Digital has a PD-095-01 Portable MP3 player [perceptiondigital.com] which has a can record from an internal mic, FM, or a line-in at 13Kbps voice or 48-320kbps MP3 [perceptiondigital.com] (!). That's pretty frickin' awesome. It's a little bit on the chunkier side, and only accepts SmartMedia, no Compact Flash though. Still, tempting, if I could find some user reviews...

The e.Digital Odyssey 300 [edgereview.com] (SmartMedia) looks interesting, although it also looks like it's no longer available [edigital-store.com]. [the Mpio DMB+ [advancedmp3players.co.uk] looks like the same thing]

Also, PoGo! Products has their RipFlash line of Recordable Digital Audio Players [pogoproducts.com] (the TRIO [wkonline.com] is one w/ mic and line in, but is not memory expandable). Uses SD/MMC... (CNet RipFlash DX review [cnet.com])

See Also: minidisc.org's Portable Recorders with Uploading Facilities [amulation.com] list.

Places to buy: e.Digital Odyseey 300 [yahoo.com], PoGo! RipFlash Trio [yahoo.com], Perception Digital Hercules [yahoo.com] (PD-095-01),

Re:Next Gen

[NightWhistler]

A friend of mine had one of those for testing, and we messed around with it a bit...

The DivX playback is pretty decent (at least on tv, the tiny screen sucks), but the abillity to record is really dissapointing. An old beat-up VCR delivers better quality.

Also, i found it pretty heavy to carry around in your pocket for MP3 playback.

Just my 2 (euro)cents. ;-)

Re:What about Frontier Labs?

[llin]

It's not on their website, but via emailed, I was informed the OGG code was being worked on and would be available for the II and the ia.

Having my NEX II conveniently disassembled right now, it looks like it's using a TI TMS320VC5416 [ti.com] (C54xx series) 16-Bit 144-pin Fixed-Point DSP with Boundary Scan.

A quick Ogg search shows that someone was working on porting the Tremor code to the TI C54s last year [xiph.org]. Interesting stuff.

BTW, I'm been using Mozilla v1.3+ (currently running a 1.4b build) and the site hasn't been giving me any problems.

Re:Beware AAA battery players...

[steve-san]

The money-sucking battery issue led me to buy the MXP100 from E.digital (available from Newegg for 60 bucks).
http://www.edigital-store.com/mp3-players -mxp-100. html

It has a small, user-replaceable Li-ion battery pack that lasts a good long time (~12hrs).

Note for anyone who has this toy or is considering it:
The web page & instructions tell you that music *must* be transferred directly to the device via USB using their software. This was unacceptable to me, and after plenty of email harassment, their tech support told me the trick to make the player recognize music copied directly to the flash card by another means (such as a USB CF card reader):
Simply hold the scroll wheel DOWN (not IN) while turning on the device. It will re-scan the CF card and all music will be accessible. The only problem is that this breaks the voice recognition feature (yes, the damn thing can find song names that you say into the microphone! -- but only if music is transferred using their software). On the up-side, I'm sure that this workaround also breaks any DRM "features" that their software could have introduced. :)

Anyway, I've been using the MXP 100 for about 4 months now & highly recommend it. Definitely worth the small price tag.

Container Format...

[idontneedanickname]

Also good to note is that OGM (Ogg Media) is a container format like AVI, and it's somewhat better, especially if you use vorbis audio. It also allows you to add several different language tracks, different subtitles, and much more.
It pretty much lets you put a DVD in a single file.

Come on, no mention of the new iPods?

[Anonymous Coward]

ThinkSecret (www.thinksecret.com) is reporting that 15 and 30 GB iPods are on the way, with USB 2.0, a cradle, and redesigned controls. There will also probably be a software update to support Apple's music download service.

Size of Bantam vs iPod

[Drakonian]

From the article:

The BA1000 has dimensions that are almost identical to the iPod's. The unit comes in at a svelt 194 grams vs. the iPod's 185 grams. Dimensions of the unit are 106mm x 66mm x 31mm (4.0" x 2.6" x 1.2") vs. the iPod's 102 x 62 x 20 mm (4.0" x 2.4" x 0.78"). In both cases the iPod is still smaller, but marginally so.

31 mm thick vs 20 mm? That is a huge difference. Thickness makes all the difference in the world in being able to carry it in your pocket. The iPod is justtt small enough. (I consider Palm Vs/m500s just about perfectly sized). An extra 1.1 cm would make this thing uncomfortable to carry in your pocket.

Re:blah

[svirre]

I brought my iPod skiing (downhill, alpine). Two days with outside temperatures varying between -10C to 0C (Between the top and the bottom of the mountain) 6 hours each day.

While the unit itself wasn't subjected to outside temperature, it did get exposed to a fair bit of humidity inside the jacket as well as the occational bump and bruise from falls.

The only problem is that the remote control connection is too loose som somtimes it worked loose. Music wasn't interrupted but the remote failed to work until the connector was reseated.

(Also the remote wire is poorly buildt. The insulator jacket works loose from the jack leaving the the wires with no strech protection. This I fixed with a hot-glue gun)

I use it whie walking all the time.

NetMD?

[labil]

Last spring I chose between an MP3-player and a Minidisc player, and the choise fell on Sony MZ-N707 NetMD. It's absolutely wonderful. I transfer about 5 hours of music onto one disc, the transfer speed is definetly ok, never had a skip. All in all, I've got nothing bad to say about it, and people looking for descent portable music players should at least concider the NetMD players.

pretty sturdy

[commodoresloat]

I've dropped the damn thing. On hard floors. From about 4 feet. It's fallen out of my backpack a couple of times, in its belt strap thingy which protects it from scratches a bit but probably doesn't cushion the impact much. It still works fine. This is a 20g model about 6 months old. (Note - I don't recommend dropping any hard drive, even one with a spin wheel and headphones).

new ipods soon

[tantalus]

thinksecret [thinksecret.com], which is usually pretty reliable, has an article [thinksecret.com] about upcoming ipods due at the end of the month. I would wait until then if I was currently in the market for an mp3 player.

Also, for those with ipods now, here's a link [ipodbattery.com] for buying a replacement battery for $49. Useful if your battery is starting to show some wear.

Marathon good enoug 'torture test'?

[SuperBanana]

The idea is awesome, but I'd want to hear some 'torture-test' stories (like, you know, using it while walking...) from some I-Pod owners before I shell out another $300 USD for something that's about as durable as a lightbulb.

A friend bought an iPod and used it for months during his almost-daily training for the Boston Marathon. Then he ran the marathon with it. It simply went into his pocket- no waist pack or nothin', so it sure got bounced around a lot.

That good enough? :-)

Re:Samsung Yepp

[Anonymous Coward]

There's already Linux software for this player, It works nicely on my debian box...you should try it