Creative SoundBlaster Audigy 2 Reviewed 377
Julio writes "For some, the Audigy 2 is what the original Audigy should have been, however without trying to underestimate Creative efforts, they are bringing us today a revamped soundcard that is set to raise the bar like the original Live! did, many years ago.
You will be happy to know that Creative has taken care of the board quality from the ground up, newer and better DACs are used to ensure 24-Bit/96-kHz/192kHz playback and among the rest of niceties the card offers you have DVD-Audio playback, full 6.1 surround sound, THX certification and the mandatory (for a Creative soundcard) EAX Advanced HD."
Audigy2 and Linux don't play well together (Score:4, Informative)
Re:DRM? (Score:5, Informative)
The Digital Output is always active except when playing DRM encoded content, at which point it is disabled. This is a requirement of DRM support otherwise the Audigy 2 would simply not be able to play DRM encoded content, e.g. DVD-Audio, as would be the case for other non-supporting soundcards.
So, no thank you. Also...
Unlike most other Soundcards though, the Audigy 2 can also send a 2, 4 or 5.1 channel signal over it's digital output using a 4 pole mini-jack. For the most part this will only remain compatible with Creative's own Speaker systems e.g. MegaWorks 510D, Inspire 5700, etc. while other receivers are likely to output this signal as stereo.
Sweet. So I also get a crippled Digital Out. Where's my wallet, I must have one of these!
Re:DRM? (Score:5, Informative)
Q: The digital outputs are disabled during DVD Audio playback, are there any plans to add more Digital Right Management and copy limitations to the Audigy 2 or any future product?
A: At Creative we don't look at it as adding "limitations" to our technology. We wanted to add DVD-Audio, which we feel (and I am sure all your readers will agree) adds a massive benefit to our product line. However, DVD-Audio incorporates certain copy-protection features that MUST be in place before support of the format is allowed. This is not unique to our card. Even standard DVD-Audio players are not allowed any form of "bit-for-bit" digital output while playing DVD-Audio. Some solutions use proprietary digital connections to deliver the digital content to their amp, etc., which means that you can't plug the digital output into a digital recording device.
Therefore as an "Enabler," we evaluate the benefit of a format against the limitations to the user. For instance, we also support WMA. This has requirements to support their DRM implementation, which we do. Remember that all these technologies do NOT stop you from making personal copies of unprotected media. They simply protect that content using the protection methods of the format.
In short, will we ever add generic "Copy-Protection" technologies to our products that stop users doing what they want with their music/ audio? No.
Will we ever add more formats that may incorporate stringent copy-protection technologies to protect itself? Most definitely, if the format is desirable to our users.
Finally, although there may be very stringent copy-protection formats, it is normally in the field of protecting "exact" digital copies. There is normally flexibility where analog/ low quality copies wish to be made. For instance, the DVD-Audio format does give some flexibility in the areas of 16-bit/ 44.1kHz Digital outputs, or for making analog copies. It was not possible to enable this from day one, but we will work to expose this and provide as much flexibility to our users as we move forward.
I hope (Score:3, Informative)
Can you believe it, when I asked them for a fix to a bug that prevented me from loading soundfont files with my brand new Audigy, the answer was that there "was no such bug"?
It took weeks before I accidentally stumbled upon a solution in a forum somewhere.
Re:AWE 32 (Score:5, Informative)
Re:DRM? (Score:5, Informative)
But at the same time if you still stuck in Windows-land I'd recommend M-Audio's new budget card to any windoze user who wants something decent without having to deal with Creative.
Personally I'll still continue to buy OEM SB Lives since I've been using them for years and they're supported under every OS known to man.
Works in linux (Score:2, Informative)
Granted I dont use midi digital out or any of the fancy stuff right now but the I get sound from the line out and the headphones (from the live drive) and the fire wire port on the live drive works as well.
Re:AWE 32 (Score:4, Informative)
The closest you're going to get to what you're talking about is a solution like the nVidia SoundStorm with realtime DD5.1 encoding. You could output that digital signal over standard coax or optical SPDIF to a receiver to do the sound processing. Of course, at that point you're spending more money than Joe Blow consumer probably wants to spend
Audio cards (Score:5, Informative)
There are a couple of Creative-licensed OEM products (Some of the Alesis stuff looks awfully familiar...) but most of these companies provide far better hardware and software for "real" sound applications. A nice audio interface w/ a pair of active studio monitors will sound worlds better than some cheap consumer surround sound system. The prices are pretty much comparable with Creative's "good" stuff.
ctfmon.exe?? (Score:4, Informative)
Not so hot (Score:5, Informative)
Interested parties, especially home-theater people, should look at stuff based on the VIA EnvyHT chip which does 7.1 and typically has better SNR and lower THD than the Audigy 2, and in some benchmarks has shown to be less cpu intensive for gaming (i.e. higher frame rates with the EnvyHT cards) than the Audigy 2, although it ostensibly does not have as much hardware acceleration for 3D positional audio.
One such card, with *EXCELLENT* bass management is the M-Audio Revolution. See the card [digitalconnection.com] at one reseller.
Re:AWE 32 (Score:5, Informative)
1) it was ISA
2) driver compatibility issues
3) was not full-duplex, inasmuch as I can recall.
Like it or not, the AWE32 became the standard, and that's why I still use it today. Everything's backward-compatible with it.
Reasons I hate Creative... (Score:0, Informative)
Er, the Audigy 2 has been out for almost 6 months (Score:5, Informative)
It's about bandwidth, too. (Score:2, Informative)
"Digital Out Always Active" - Wrong!!! (Score:1, Informative)
I got an Audigy 2 very recently, and I love it. However, when I tried to pair it w/ the new Klipsch ProMedia Digital system (w/ built in Dolby Digital decoder), it didn't work well at all. There are two problems w/ this combo: On the Audigy 2 side, it only outputs stereo over the digital port unless there's a DD signal. So you can't even run the Audigy tests if you're only connected to the digital out, as you get no sound for rear left/right or center channels. In my opinion, the Audigy 2 should always send the exact same digital signal out as it's sending over its analog out jacks (leaving the DRM arguments to others).
On the Klipsch side, it only has front stereo analog input jacks - you can't do the required 3 stereo analog hookups. So for the vast majority of Audigy 2 out scenarios (unless all you do is play DVDs), you can't take advantage of the features of the Audigy 2.
Since Creative cards have apparently behaved this way for a while, I think Klipsch really screwed up here. I sent the Klipsch back and got the Logitech Z-680s, which also are THX certified, have a wireless remote, etc. This setup sounds terrific!!!
FWIW...
Great card, but the Software's Annoying... (Score:5, Informative)
1. The software on the Creative website (soundblaster.com) are only updates. You CANNOT download full applications or drivers (that only work if you have the card, mind you). So if you lose your original install CD, you're hosed unless you poly up the $25 they want for a new CD
2. The software that gets installed (the mixer, EAX control panels, speaker calibrators, etc.) is a) a HUGE memory hog (we're taling > 92MB on XP Pro with all the bells & whistles loaded) and b) slow, because they chose not to use the standard Windows toolbox to build it. All kinds of unnecessary stuff is in there - transparent drop downs (like OS X), etc...
3. If you install the full software suite - it's ALWAYS there... at one point or another, every 10 minutes you'll be reminded of the fact that you have a CREATIVE card in your rig... and that stupid splash screen at every startup / login is one of the most annoying things... if you can find out how to shut it off the first time in less than 15 minutes of searching, I'll give you a cookie. Chocolate chip, even.
As always, this is My $0.02, so YMMV. Me? I get around this by installing the drivers only and the individual apps as necessary (which is rare since most of their offerings have better share/freeware counterparts).
Isn't this a couple of months late? (Score:4, Informative)
A couple of linux notes:
* support was added in early January in the opensource driver [creative.com]
* the newest beta of Red Hat Linux supports the card out of the box.
DVD-Audio (Score:5, Informative)
The DVD-Audio protection does NOT cripple the Audigy 2 when compared to other sound cards because the Audigy 2 is the only card that supports DVD-Audio at all! DVD-Audio is not the same thing as audio channels on DVD playback which DO work through the Audigy 2's digital outputs.
The only time digital output is disabled is when DVD-Audio discs are played, but DVD-Audio is such a niche format right now that it isn't likely to seriously affect anyone.
Re:2496? (Score:2, Informative)
yes, the Live(and Audigy and Extigy) resampled EVERYTHING, no matter what bit-rate/resolution the signal was in.
if you ripped a cd digitally, it was allready at 16/44.1 the Live(etc...) would take that 16/44.1 signal and resample it to 16/44.1(why is beyond me).
if your source file was 16/48 or 24/48 or 24/96 or anything other than 16/44.1 the Live(et all) would downsample to 16/44.1 without using a proper Dither. needless to say, the resulting sound was very inferior in quality compared to the source
Re:AWE 32 (Score:3, Informative)
Windows XP system, fresh install, updated drivers for everything.
No, USB sound cards are definitely *NOT* the way to go and once again have me questioning why I should ever buy a Creative Labs product again....
Bryan
A2 Platinum Ex... happiness, mostly (Score:3, Informative)
Good speakers can be a mixed blessing. They make a good signal sound great, but they also make a mediocre signal sound awful. I had Logitech's THX 4.1 system hooked up to the motherboard's AC-97 before I got the A2. It took me weeks to get the EQ to sound good. The A2, out of the box with no EQ tweaks, blew away my highly tweaked AC-97 sound. I was so happy! The signals, especially on the low end, are much cleaner than the AC-97. Bass lines that used to be way too boomy are now clean and crisp, yet still powerful.
The audio inputs are the A2's greatest improvement over a stock card. With AC-97, things I recorded rarely sounded the same on playback. A2 is simply excellent in this respect. I am able to get a mix that sounds virtually indistinguishable from some professionally recorded cd's. It's not 100% perfect, but what do you expect out of a consumer-grade card and an inexperienced recording engineer?
The one kicker is that Linux support is virtually non-existant. *grr* I haven't been able to get one peep out of it in RedHat 8 (flame away), and I refuse to pay $40 for a third party driver. So much for pathos.
Bottom line: Audiophiles, aspiring musicians, home theater buffs, this card is for you. You will need good speakers to make the most of your experience, so beware. We're talking about a very pricey upgrade. But if you appreciate great sound, I promise you will not be disappointed.
Most folks, however, will be better served by the stock AC-97 and its plentiful support for both Windows and Linux.
Cheers!
Re:Sound Cards, the SB-Live-Audigy upgrade train. (Score:5, Informative)
If memory serves, I believe that the Audigy2 onboard processing is also far more powerful than the SB Live, so that enabling Creative's 3D positional effects in games won't be a resource drag on your system, and it supports Creative's newest advances in those kinds of effects (which may or may not float your boat).
Personally, I think audio in games is vastly underrated, by both gamers and developers. Good audio is just as important in games as it is in movies. But I think a lot of people don't want to buy a separate speaker system for their computer, either because they already invested a lot in their home theatre system, or they don't want to seem like a "geek" by shelling out for one of the 5.1 computer speaker setups just to play games. I think console games will really start to overcome this, because the console is already hooked into the home theatre system. For instance, DTS just released an SDK to help developers put DTS into their PS2 games.
But I digress. It doesn't sound like the Audigy2 is something you *need*, but it might make for a more enjoyable experience in Doom 3 because of the increased fidelity and effects processing since you indicated you already had a surround system hooked up to your box.
Re:AWE 32 (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Audio cards (Score:4, Informative)
Re:AWE 32 (Score:2, Informative)
First, I dunno if this was a driver limitation or what, but I seem to remember decent restrictions on multiple sound streams. As in, I would be playing an MP3 and so ICQ couldn't make sounds. This was with a ISA AWE64 Value in NT 4 anyway. Once I went to a PCI sound card ($17 OEM Yamaha card) I could have plenty of simultaneous audio. I think this was a restriction of the drivers and/or ISA bus more than the chip though.
The Live and the Audigy that I've had after that have, in my opinion, sounded progressively better. The signal is cleaner (at least according to specs and cranking my reciever up), sound is richer, and they have digital outputs. Not to mention positional audio, which is pretty cool. Needed for basic sound? No. Sound is practically a given nowdays though (and should be). A decent PCI card can be had for $20-50 though. I think the only people paying $200 or more are those buying Audigy Platinums or professional audio cards.
USB audio is a pretty bad idea in my opinion. Sure, theoretically it works great. However, in practice, not always so. I've seen problems with Macs using them. Macs...machines on which audio has just simply "been there" on for years, now have strange volume drops or muting (with some USB speakers). I can't imagine how bad it can get with PCs with more variety in the hardware.
Besides, I've been using my old reciever and a pair of Polk Audio bookshelf speakers for 5 years now, and I've yet to hear a pair of computer speakers match them full range (especially at under $200, which is about what I paid). Those of us with more than a dinky sub/satellite combo will always want a real audio output anyway (though a digital optical would probably do).
As far as the audio chip is concerned, true, most people probably don't use much more than the functionality of an AWE32...or a Sound Blaster PCI/Ensonique AudioPCI as the case may be, since the AWE32 (to my knowledge) was an ISA only card. But newer cards have cleaner sound and more output options...for those of us that want them.
Re:Great card, but the Software's Annoying... (Score:2, Informative)
No more splash screen or taskbar. Makes using the Audigy a lot nicer.
Philip
Re:DRM? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:provably useless commercial BS (Score:2, Informative)
Stud:
This is provably useless to anyone who has done any basic signal theory.
* 24 bit gives a SNR of 144dB. How many people have mikes and/or baffles with such a quality ? 24bit is useless unless maybe for processing, in order not to lose significant digits, but that should be in pure software. Case dismissed.
The point is that a DAC or ADC with higher resolution is more accurate. 16-bit converters aren't really 16-bit accurate. So, a 24-bit converter gives you 21 or 22 good bits, and while the rest is noise, it's still more accurate than a 16-bit part.
Besides, the 24-bit parts are the ones the chip vendors are pushing, and they're at the right price. Good luck even BUYING a 16-bit part!
* Your ears filter out anything above 20kHz. Make it 24 kHz for the so called golden ears. Therefore according to nyquist anything above 48 kHz is useless. Case dismissed
Um, the whole point of sampling at higher frequencies is so that the anti-aliasing filter doesn't have to be this sharp-cutoff ringing thing that was commment when sampling at 44.1kHz. Instead of having a transition band of 2.05 kHz (between 20 kHz and 22.05kHz in a 44.1kHz system), you have a leisurely 28 kHz (between 20 kHz and 48 kHz in a 96 kHz system). Gentler antialiasing filters == much less time-domain ringing and sampling artifacts.
Class dismissed. Please do your homework before posting about things you don't understand.
Re:DRM? (Score:5, Informative)
It certainly will affect Linux users. There simply won't be support for digital out at all under Linux, neatly solving the problem.
Re:And yet... (Score:2, Informative)
It's called S/PDIF, or simply "Digital Out", and it's been on practically every sound card for the past three years. And it is exactly as you describe. The sound card does everything but the DAC, and you get a nice no-hiss signal. A $30 SoundBlaster Live! will do it, assuming you have a speaker system/reciever with a S/PDIF input.
Re:creative drivers still suck (Score:1, Informative)
The original quote would be funnier:
A jedi craves not these things.
And now, back to your regularly scheduled on-topic comments.
Why this old review when there is a NEWER one? (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.soundblaster.com/products/audigy2_pl
a review on the NEW card:
http://www.nordichardware.com/reviews/audio/200
Re:Great card, but the Software's Annoying... (Score:3, Informative)
You can find it here [tweaktown.com].
I managed to do it another way as well, but can't remember offhand. My disk was missing from my collection of driver disks when I got the OEM card, but the dealer had extras kicking around. It doesn't hurt to ask for them
And as the parent says, full install SUCKS! Go with only what you need.
Re:Great card, but the Software's Annoying... (Score:2, Informative)
Those these drivers are aimed more at musicians than gamers.
GUSsy, facts and madeupstuff (Score:1, Informative)
2) Drivers? DOS drivers? No such thing. Winders drivers?
3) So who needs FD? You could've added the DB16 which included a Crystal Semi 4231. FD was available. The stock GUS had no such DSP, but more like a bunch of ASICs and a 16-bit DAC (and an 8-bit ADC). Software is what made it perform, but few were capable of doing software for it, and the SDK 1.0 was basic, and the 2.0x still not there. You had to do it yourself to get it going good. Later GUSes bore little resemblance to the original, red-RCP GUS, and include W3x drivers, and possibly even beta W95. AW32 came not long after the GUS, maybe less than a year after.
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Re:AWE 32 (Score:4, Informative) by msaulters (130992) on Monday March 17, @02:45PM (#5531048) Good Point. Only reasons I'm not still using my old GUS: 1) it was ISA 2) driver compatibility issues 3) was not full-duplex, inasmuch as I can recall.
Re:DRM? (Score:3, Informative)
The real secret -- the digital piracy threat plays great in Washington. At this point, and for quite a while in the future the threat is just a myth. It was certainly true when the first anti-digital law was passed in 1992 (Digital Home Recording Act), and Napster did not change anything.
The threat than, and now, is low quality copies. Back then it was kids with $50 dubbing-cassette boomboxes, now its 128-bit (or worse) MP3. I really sneer every time I hear the phrase "perfect digital copy" (it was even used in Loefgren's B.A.L.A.N.C.E. act). The real problem is digital distribution, not the act of multiple copies.
By playing games with digital outputs (not allowing them for DVD video, or DVD-A/SACD Audio; or crippling DAT outputs), the only people they really dissuade from making copies are the very people who are their best customers - the audiophile/videophile (these fools, and I include myself here, have been known to buy multiple copies of recordings). The people the who are listening to copies instead of buying recordings don't care much about quality.
So why do they keep maintaining this myth? The publishers (ie. RIAA and MPAA) get a bunch of advantages. The advantages of the "perfect digital copies" myth include:
* Congress thinks this is a good enough excuse to pass laws (publishers have to add money too, but it gives congress some type of intellectual cover) - primary excuse for DHRA, DMCA, and a bunch of other proposed laws.
* It gives the publishers a stick to control the equipment manufactures with
* It gives the publishers power to be a gatekeeper, even for media and distribution forms they don't currently use (how else can the MPAA get broadcast flags put in computers?).
* It slows down the path to direct distribution, and keeps up the profit margin of large media companies.
* It discourages home grown music (most modern equipment can't record, and if they can it is often with crippled options - aka Sony Minidisc).
In reality Digital controls do not have much effect on casual copying. The exception is the video arena where the MPAA got mandated MacroVision/CopyGuard, and the wet dreams of other publishers is to get a similar fix for their "analog holes".
Looking back historically, it is easy to see how congress was "rolled". The publishers tried for years to get new rights and privileges over analog content, but were mostly rejected. When they trotted out the Perfect Digital Copy myth; Congress rolled over and gave them controls past their wildest dreams (the current DMCA). Now they are working backwards, and complaining that they don't have the same control over analog (actually they are asking for far more than they ever asked back in the pre-digital days; but now they have the precedence in the current digital controls).