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Sony Shows Off Flexible OLED Screens At CES
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:18 AM
from the too-bad-she-won't-live dept.
from the too-bad-she-won't-live dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Sony's stand at CES had a small area set aside for flexible OLED screens, along with three mock-ups of possible OLED devices (including one stunning ultra-portable with no hinge and a single display for both screen and keyboard). There was also a working OLED screen being bent back and forth while playing a video clip. Does this mean roll-up, low-power colour screens will soon hit the market? Not unless OLED prices come down — Sony's stunning XEL-1 OLED TV costs $2,500, but only has an 11in screen ..."
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Submission: Sony shows off flexible OLED screens at CES by Anonymous Coward
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Sony's new TV. (Score:5, Funny)
Clothes (Score:2)
Color chaning clothes!
The invisibility cloak is finally on it's way.
Re:Clothes (Score:4, Funny)
I'd be happy to see an invisible tie so I could wear that and get one over on the man, or randomly turn it from invisible to a disturbing picture for microseconds to mess with friends and co-workers.
Parent
Do they come with rootkits? (Score:3, Interesting)
I can't buy Sony anything; once bitten, twice shy. Never again will Sony have the chance to fuck me over like that.
along with three mock-ups of possible OLED devices
I.e., lies. But what do you expect from sociopaths who would install rootkits in music CD, especially install rootkits that contain copyrighted FOSS that they have no right to use?
And no, I will NOT let this rest. Sony owes me for the purchase of MS XP (since video drivers were no longer available for 98) and an Audigy sound card, as well as several hours of my time. I can no longer trust Sony and refuse to buy from them, and consider anyone who would be a Sony customer extremely stupid and short sighted.
Not unless OLED prices come down
You can count on it. In five years an OLED screen may well be a couple of bucks.
Re:Do they come with rootkits? (Score:4, Interesting)
Let me commend you before you get modded troll. Sony is the dickwad of the industry. I love their hardware (earphones in particular, and standalone music systems) but never again will I buy anything from Sony with any type of electronic communications interface. Not even their digital cameras, nor Sony-Ericson telephones.
Parent
Re:Do they come with rootkits? (Score:4, Insightful)
Boycott the Sony record label by all means.
However, I don't think it's practical in boycott entire mega-corporations since they are really just umbrella legal entities.
Whilst I wouldn't buy a Sony CD, battery, or anything that uses a proprietary recording format, I would buy another Sony TV because they've been of good build quality, and none have expired before I chose to upgrade myself.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
My forty two inch Trinitron works very well (except for one bad input that I only use for the radio anyway), has an excellent picture ane very good sound (I have it plugged into some 12 inch 3 way speakers).
But the rootkit was a killer. Newer equipment will be internet enabled, and Sony will be able to do any damned thing they want to it, and theor XCP showed that they WILL stoop to anything.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
"However, I don't think it's practical in boycott entire mega-corporations since they are really just umbrella legal entities."
You'd be surprised. The only new Sony product I've purchased in over a year is a clock radio, and even then I'm stretching the definition of "I purchased" to include somebody buying it on my behalf with no input beyond "I need a new alarm clock for". It turns out that they have all sorts of competitors offering comparable (and sometimes even better) products at prices which are almo
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Re:Do they come with rootkits? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Given that it's a Best Buy, I would say:
3 - They pull the display model TV out of the box and hook it up. However the engineers at the factory set it up is how it is on the shelf, and Sony and Samsung tune them differently.
4 - The customers have been screwing with the settings.
Or the TVs could be different. I've got a Samsung and Sony LCDs in a dual head set up on my PC, and no matter how I screw with the settings on the Samsung the Sony has a better picture.
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I can no longer trust Sony and refuse to buy from them...
I agree, but the vast majority of the public has absolutely no fricking clue why that would be the case. Just yesterday in one of my classes we were discussing business ethics and the fundamental motivations of a business (I'm a CS major taking a course on business law), and Sony was held up by the professor as an example of a company that has a primary goal of creating a quality product and building a quality brand. I didn't speak up because the example was given in passing and I didn't want to hold up the
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I agree with you to a large extent. Sony has blown away an awful lot of goodwill by shipping crummy products.
Flamebait is not necessarily wrong (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
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That's been my observation as well. Slashdot has a rep of being "filled with Linux fanboys" as uncyclopedia parodies in a "quote" from Bill gates, but I've noticed that so-called "Linux Zealots" seldom downmod jsut because somebody says somthing unkind toward it, while if you say anything negative whatever about Microsoft you're modded to oblivion.
Who in their right mind would defend Sony?
Re: (Score:2)
If it's flamebait why has it been said so often? The fact is it's entirely true, and if you are offended by someone who was bitten by Sony's rootkit badmouthing Sony, I suggest you get off the internet. Because we (not just me) are not going to shut up about Sony until the Sony brand no longer exists.
Which division of Sony do you work for BTW? have you considered looking for honest employment?
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I had some old Windows-only games. I run Mandriva dual boot, with networking disabled on the Windows side.
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But you won't be getting it from Sony
Hell no I won't. If twenty five inch Sony OLEDs are a dollar and ten inch Panasonic CRTs are a hundred, I'll buy the ten inch Panasonic, because I wouldn't trust Sony as far as I could throw a Caddilac.
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You can count on it. In five years an OLED screen may well be a couple of bucks.
But you won't be getting it from Sony. The PS3 is being eaten alive in the market, and pretty much every analyst agrees that it's because it costs twice what its competitors cost.
Sony's response?
They removed PS2 backwards compatibility from the PS3.
I wasn't too thrilled about that, or about the fact that they cut the number of USB ports on the machine... But in the end I don't think it was necessarily worth the cost to keep that PS2 hardware in the PS3. If removing PS2 hardware helped them to bring the cost of the PS3 out of the stratosphere (barely) then I think it was worth it.
Backwards compatibility? Xbox 360, Wii. Not PS3.
Now hold on... The 360 supports a limited subset of the original XBox's game library, through software emulation - same as the PS3. (Though I guess some models of PS3 don'
Roll. up TVs? (Score:5, Interesting)
Instead of pulling down the whitescreen for a TV projector from a roll, you actually roll down the TV itself - flexible screen comlpete with black backing and polymer based circuitry. 10 years I reckon before these are in the shops.
That's about when I might give up CRT (Score:3, Insightful)
Fine with me. That's probably about the time I'll finally give up my tried and true CRT for something new. Up to now, I've just kept it, because what with format wars in the blu ray space, expensive content sources (whether it be players, the discs themselves, or HD cable), three competing large screen technologies (LCD, Plasma and rear projection) all with their own problems, TVs not always being 1080p, and sometimes just 1080i, changing cable designs, etc, I
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It would be more useful if the screen could be folded like a normal sheet of paper. I suppose a roll up screen on a scroll might work.
Basically, you want to be able to reduce the screen to be as small as possible for carrying and expand to a reasonable size for viewing. Reading /. on the metro like a paper would be cool.
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Try mounting a large 50 kg HDTV on the sort of plasterboard wall common in offices then get back to us. When the alternative is a roll up TV probably weighing in at a few kilos its no contest.
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Err... Yeah. It is. You might want that wall to actually have things on it other than your TV. The TV may not fit with the decor, and you want to hide it... Or you may just have more decor than wallspace. There are plenty of reasons to want a hide-away TV.
Oh great... (Score:5, Funny)
Now Anonymous Coward is going to run around the internet shouting "Will it BEND??"
Samsung shows transparent OLED at 2009 CES (Score:4, Informative)
how about one you can afford? (Score:2)
Some OLED notes (Score:5, Informative)
A few points about OLED:
1) The optimal solution right now is flourescent blue combined with PHOLED red and green (phosphorescent). It's unclear right now how much PHOLED is being used in Sony's sets.
PHOLED is important primarily for power consumption which is why OLED screens are showing up more frequently in mobile devices. Nokia recently mandated that their suppliers have supply capability for OLED. Samsung is the major proponent of using PHOLED although LG and others are on board with materials+royalty contracts in place.
2) Samsung's recent statements about larger screen sizes (30"+) being far into the future seem to be due to two issues. First, although current LCD lines can be relatively easily retrofitted to produce OLED panels, production capacity is just starting to be scaled.
Second, and probably more importantly, the major LCD panel manufacturers have a major investment to be paid off in the later gen lines that recently came online.
3) The major issues facing OLED right now are packaging, lifetime and defect rate. The molecules degrade rapidly when exposed to oxygen/moisture so much tighter packaging is required (largely solved). Blue lifetime (both molecule sizes) was a problem in the past, 30k+ hours is now realistic. Defect rate applies to larger panels and is why 30"+ screens will be prohibitively expensive for now (Samsung has produced prototypes though so it isn't vaporware).
4) PHOLED can reach 100% EQE, flourescent around 25%. PMOLED is still viable but PHOLED should (imho) be the ideal molecule in the future. PHOLED deep blue with adequate lifetime is still the major hurdle, sky blue is ready to go.
5) OLED isn't just display. Lighting is arguably a larger market in the long run. Current specs are around 50lm/W but 100lm/W PHOLED has been successfully demonstrated. 150lm/W is pushing the envelope but not unrealistic.
GE is pushing its roll-to-roll initiative. Philips is aggressively heading toward commercial production. OLED lighting offers lower power consumption, temperature tunability, flexibility, flat panel replacement and fault tolerance (in the respect that a hole in the middle of the panel won't take out the entire structure). Universal Display recently received a grant with Armstrong to engineer tiles for commercial use.
6) OLED's appeal is not just a better display and flexibility; thickness (sub-1mm) and transparency are important factors for future designs and mass acceptance as a technology (Youtube has many videos about the Samsung prototypes).
7) The technology is way past the prototype stage, like where FED and SED have been stuck. Kodak, Dupont, BASF and every Japanese and Korean company you can name are involved (i.e. heavily investing) in OLED. Not to mention that the Chinese are going online this year in a big way. Will it replace LCD for display? Not any time soon. The question is not how many applications there are to make it viable, it's how soon these apps will gain critical mass in the marketplace.
Google for further information.
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Great, now they'll have ads on the floor. Ads that will follow you around. "Follow the red dot on the floor to The Gap, Mr Yakamoto. We have assorted tank tops on sale."
Flicker? (Score:4, Interesting)
I have seen the Sony OLED TV (FYI, the resolution is quarter-1080p 960x540), but one thing I noticed is... the flicker during bright scenes. Now, I don't know if it was caused by the source (blu-ray player), the cabling (running 1080p24), or the scaler (both the size and framerate adjust). It was the light images, but I'm just somewhat concerned that we'll end up in the days of screens that flicker again. (Nothing's more annoying that someone who has their CRT set to 60Hz refresh).
I'm thinking it's just a scalar issue, but I've seen it on some of the OLED screens used in MP3 players...
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Okay, that's a tad scary. I thought OLED had stupidly fast response times. I realise that's not the same as real-world refresh rate, but it should at least be capable.
In any case, I can't understand how (or why) it would want to emulate the mechnical vertical scan of traditional CRT.
One 'interesting' feature of OLED technology I think is that there's no 'real' grayscale. It flickers the light on/off incredibly fast to emulate gray (or any colour). I doubt this issue relates to the above flicker aspect that
What does the 'Dept' line have to do with it? (Score:2)
Flexible is a red herring (Score:3, Insightful)
Forget about flexible. Sure, it sounds sexy, but who really cares? The roll-up stuff will probably not withstand normal wear very well in any case.
Why are all the new display technologies like oled and e-paper mainly being marketed on the unimportant qulaities like flexibility?
The real appeal of OLED is the simplicity, i.e. thinness and low cost. Only incrementally from before at first, but the simplicity is really orders of magnitude away from everything else. So once the tech is solid (i.e. good lifetime and low defect rates) and production scaled up, they will be so cheap it's silly.
The real appeal of e-paper is good reflective contrast. i.e not only high contrast, but contrast that gets better in stronger light, and in general better contrast than any screen you have seen. This is something absolutely nothing else can offer right now (electrowetting might eventually, but it's still stricly lab stuff. It promises color, though, so stay tuned on that one). People tend to forget, or not understand, how important this is, even when they talk about books being better to tread than on-screen. But once most peopole have seen a really good one, I think the penny will drop. I wish they'd forget about flexibility and persistence for now and just focus on getting them fast, reliable, cheap and even higher resolution. this is something I'd want on my laptop right now. Work on that other stuff after they've become _good_, and popular.
On oleds I have the impression thay _are_ working on the right stuff, flexible is just a by-product and makes headlines. For e-paper, i'm not so sure.
OLED circuitry still far from flexible enough (Score:3, Informative)
The OLED flex demo video shows at least two dead pixel rows, and the display doesn't even flex all that much, carefully bending in only one direction. This is very similar performance to "flexible OLED" demos we've seen for the past five years: The tech is so far away from commercial reality it's hardly worth demo'ing on a tradeshow alongside with commercially available tech.
Re:Am I the only one who feels... (Score:4, Insightful)
TV content stays the same quality; it's your taste that's changing. A five-year-old will love pretty much any trash you put in front of her; a fifty-year-old is either (a) still in love with the same stuff she saw when she was five, or (b) watching on a much more complicated level, and requires far more meaning and technical skill in their content.
The fashion changes, but the target demographic remains the same - gullible people who are easy to convince to spend money.
Parent
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Hey now, My Mother the Car was a triumph of Shakespearean proportions!
Re:Am I the only one who feels... (Score:5, Funny)
a fifty-year-old is either (a) still in love with the same stuff she saw when she was five, or (b) watching on a much more complicated level, and requires far more meaning and technical skill in their content.
Dear Sir,
I wish to complain in the strongest possible terms about your use of the feminine pronoun "she". Some of my best male friends are 50, and only a few of them are transvestites.
Yours faithfully, Brigadier Sir Charles Arthur Strong (Mrs.)
P.S. That my mother made me wear ribbons in my hair when I was five is nobody's business.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Am I the only one who feels... (Score:4, Insightful)
TV content stays the same quality; it's your taste that's changing.
TV's content varys considerably, and always has. Even between episodes of the same series; some of the old Star Treks were inspired ("City on the Edge of Forever" comes to mind), while some episodes were downright embarrasing.
In some ways TV content has gotten better since its "golden days". Back in the 1960s nobody would have dreamed of a comedy without a laugh track, while My Name Is Earl and that one doctor comedy has no laugh track. If you need a laugh track, your comedy isn't funny.
When cable was new, HBO was free, cable channels didn't censor, and cable channels didn't show commercials. Now Comedy Central removes all the funny parts from every movie it shows, and A&E cut "swear words" like "ass" and "shit" before breaking for a commercial. And which channel is it that shows movies with two dumbasses talking about the damned movie before and after commercials? What idiot came up with that idea?
And they didn't have those damned logos in the corner, don't get me started on the animated logos!
In many ways TV has gotten better. It's just that in the 1960s you might have three channels, while now you have dozens of channels of pure crap. When ESPN shows poker and pool you know there are too many sports channels. And who are the dimwits who watch "shopping channels?" And why do I have to pay for them?
Parent
Re:Am I the only one who feels... (Score:4, Insightful)
Have you checked the quality of old TV content lately. It is quite bad and predictable. Just because your getting Old you fail to see that.
Parent
Re:Am I the only one who feels... (Score:4, Insightful)
Not sure why you're modded flamebait - I feel like as I've gotten older there's a lot more TV shows that I actually like. Characters are more complex, shows tend to be more serial than episodic with plotlines extending over the course of a season. Also because there are more channels you get things more tailored to specific tastes. Shows like "Dexter" or "The Shield" or even BSG would not have made it in the 70's or 80's.
Parent
Re:Am I the only one who feels... (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't forget there is a difference of getting older and getting old.
Get older and gaining experience is a good thing.
Getting old and closing your mind to new ideas is a bad thing.
Parent
Re:Am I the only one who feels... (Score:4, Interesting)
I know many close minded young people, and many open minded old people. I know some octogenarians that are so open minded they hire hookers, and some young people so close minded they'd call the cops if they saw somebody smoking a joint.
Parent
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Shows like "Dexter" or "The Shield" or even BSG would not have made it in the 70's or 80's.
Except for the change in violence and language, all of these shows would do fine in the 80s.
"Serial" shows were well represented at the Emmy Awards in the 80s:
Even Cheers [imdb.com] and Murphy Brown [imdb.com] had some significant serial nature to the stories. And, the original Battlestar Galactica [imdb.com] also had a decent amount of continuing storylines.
I'm not saying that all these sh
Do you feel the way I do? (Score:5, Funny)
TV technology ->+
TV content -<+
What the hell does that even mean?
Parent
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Since screens are measured diagonally, a twenty inch screen has the same size in square inches as four ten inch screens. You would expect a twenty inch screen to use roughly four times the power of a ten inch screen.
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Well, HTC has talked about putting OLED screens on their phones, and have talked about similar 40% energy savings when talking about replacing a LCD screen with a OLED screen of the same size.
The oft-rumored iPhone HD is also supposed to move to a OLED screen for battery reasons as well.
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PDAs and smartphones were declared dead when they didn't blossom with early adopters. The same can be said for laptops. When Apple released the iPhone, suddenly everyone in the world is considering a smart phone when they wouldn't have previously.
I hate paper books. I love to read, but I largely stopped reading paper books years ago. If the Kindle weren't horribly expensive, I'd buy one.
In truth, I think you'll find that a standalone e-reader is not likely to be a huge success, a smart phone with a OLED
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I'm not sure what format you're talking about, but one of the problems with e-books is how many formats there are out there.
What I suggested is smart phones operating directly as e-readers. Given that smart phones can already open text, pdf, doc, and other formats, there is no major hurdle here, and all those formats can be read and transferred on all three platforms. Further more, if you want some proprietary, DRM-ridden e-book, smart phones would allow you to download the book directly from the internet