
wcarchive Upgraded 193
aqua writes "Just noticed that ftp.cdrom.com, renowned for being the single biggest/fastest FTP server in history, yesterday quietly received its first hardware upgrade in two years -- the old machine was a single PPro200 / 2GB RAM; it's now a Xeon500 / 4GB. Software and disk stayed the same. Nice to see such a venerated old server get some more ponies under its hood. For the first time it also includes a credit for where they buy their hardware. The message is here. " The good news is that the max. user limit is 5000 now - I hope they have the bandwidth for it. And phil thinks he sends out a lot of data.
ha, ha! (Score:1)
Old Man... (Score:1)
Financial Problems (Score:1)
Thank goodness there is an alternative. I've had nothing but the best service and the best values from Cheapbytes. [cheapbytes.com] There you can find everything from Linux to FreeBSD at bargain prices with top notch service. I will never again waste a nickel on Walnut Creek ripoffs.
Let me put it this way (Score:1)
The "slashdot effect" is only impressive because there's never been anything like it before - but in terms of traffic, the slashdot effect is pretty minor compared to what cdrom.com sees.
In short, no.
Re:Let me put it this way 20 TB/month (Score:1)
Each month, more than 6 million people visit wcarchive - sending out to them
more than 20 terabytes of files (as of November, 1998), with the only limit being
the Internet backbone(s).
Re:He is talking about memory! (Score:1)
A 2GB/2GB split is at present the most reasonable configuration for a "large memory" Intel Linux machine.
FreeBSD, on the other hand, requires the occasional (or not so occasional) MMU reconfiguration from within a system call when the memory it needs to do I/O with is not accessable.
MMU reconfigurations can be very expensive. However, this also makes it possible to use up to 4GB of memory on a 32-bit machine.
It would be interesting to see which approach is really more efficient, having not seen any benchmarks I couldn't say.
However, it seems that in the future Linux will do some VM operations the FreeBSD way (this will be necessary to support >4GB with the PPro/Xeon, as you then literally can't map all of physical RAM into a 4GB address space!)
By the way, you can't exceed 2GB RAM on a 64-bit Linux machine either-- unfortunately, these machines are presently tied to _32-bit_ PCI busses, and the kernel doesn't yet do the icky translation necessary to get around this.
(this wouldn't be a problem if you had exclusively 64-bit PCI devices, but no such machines currently exist)
Re:YES! "provided by" = free (Score:1)
Any techie that manages over a handful of servers! My time is worth too much.
Can Linux use 4GB? (Score:2)
than 2GB (or is it 1GB?). That's a shame because
FreeBSD evidently can use 4GB (2^32). When
Linus is asked about this memory limitation
of Linux, he typically answers: "Use a 64-bit
processor". IMHO, that's not a good answer.
32-bit architecture is not dead yet. Linus
should consider this limitation as a serious
deficiency of Linux and work on fixing it
rather than saying "Use Alpha". In fact Xeon
memory address bus is probably higher than
32-bit and so a OS running on Xeon should be
able to handle higher than 4GB RAM.
Bandwidth not a problem. (Score:2)
Re:Can Linux use 4GB? (Score:1)
Linux on 32bit based systems can handle 2gig files at max (not filesystems!; they can be *much* larger). The reason linux does not wish to up the file size and and ram support is that it would take some non-pretty hacking.
Now, don't think x86 is the only 32bit arch out there, Sparcs are 32bit as well, and these systems will be around for some time, with boxes such as SS10 and 20's which can keep chugging along even under huge loads.
5000? (Score:1)
cdrom.com always dog-slow for me. (Score:1)
Hopefully, they'll get a fatter pipe soon too. (It will be very difficult to convince me that what they have now is adequate, based on previous experiences.)
- A.P.
--
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
case in point... (Score:1)
150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for 'linux-2.2.6.tar.gz' (13588897 bytes).
226 Transfer complete.
13588897 bytes received in 607 secs (22 kbytes/sec)
Good thing there are wcarchive mirrors...
- A.P.
--
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
Maybe you're one of the lucky few... (Score:1)
divided by 5000 users..
= 20000 BITS per second per person.
Not accounting for any overhead at all and assuming 8 bits per byte (much to the dismay of old PDP-8 users I imagine), that's 2.5kbytes/s available, on average, per user.
Anyone getting more than that is incredibly lucky (and is probably slowing the rest of the users down).
- A.P.
--
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
Re:Where do you buy from? (Score:1)
Microsoft Tax? (Score:1)
Re:Slashdotted? (Score:1)
Slashdotted? (Score:1)
Is it Slashdotted already?
Re:5000? (Score:1)
i thought it was 3000?
anyone confirm either way?
Re:He is talking about memory! (Score:1)
OG.
Re:Linux will win; you will be borged (Score:1)
Anyone has serious benchmarks comparing the latest freebsd and linux kernels ? I think it would be interesting if done seriously, especially in the networking area.
OG.
Nice troll! (Score:1)
Re:Older... (Score:1)
Re:What OS? (Score:2)
It's An AD! (Score:2)
Uh, haven't you seen adds on other commercial internet things, like WEBSITES? CDROM.COM doesn't sell hardware, so just like other websites do, they can make a buisness decision and accept a hardware add on thier site, the and thier ftp site is obviously a high traffic site. That's why.
Re:What OS? (Score:1)
Re:Where do you buy from? (Score:1)
Re:Credit for PC Maker (Score:2)
And warranties are better for a LOT more than just not wanting to open the machine up. I've had many a time where some WEIRD problems showed up and nothing I tried work, but calling tech support fixed it in about 10 minutes. A large computer manufacturer has simply seen it all and can help you with almost anything.
correction... (Score:1)
I remember when WC took this title away from MS a while ago. The former record had been made by a sizable cluster of machines, all of which ran on faster hardware than cdrom.com . A shining day for open source.
To me, the single greatest argument for using FreeBSD is that WCarchive uses it.
--Lenny
//"You can't prove anything about a program written in C or FORTRAN.
It's really just Peek and Poke with some syntactic sugar."
YOU feel old :) (Score:1)
I'm tellin' ya, this makes me feel OLD!
Re:What OS? (Score:1)
Oh, and for the uneducated...
FreeBSD != a linux distribution.
-luqin
---
Re:Can Linux use 4GB? (Score:1)
Perhaps uglier than, say, what the SPARC Reference MMU did on boring old 32-bit SPARC V7 and SPARC V8 processors to let you get 36-bit physical addresses, as the P6 trick requires 64-bit page directory and page table entries, while the SRMMU did it with 32-bit PTEs, but that might be a result of all the historical baggage Intel has to carry around.
Given that the person to whom you're replying said
I'm not sure why you think that.
Re:Don't FUD please! (Score:2)
I may be misremembering, but I think Sequent had systems with 4GB per NUMA-Q node (and, I suspect, probably allowed each node to access memory in the other nodes) before Xeon Warrior Princess was out.
The MMU trick to handle more than 4GB (not 2GB) of main memory dates back to the Pentium Pro; it wasn't introduced in the Xeons. The support chips for Xeon may have introduced features to handle more than 4GB of physical memory, but that's a different issue (and folks such as Sequent may well have rolled their own support chips).
Re:Credit for PC Maker (Score:1)
First off, the machine from Micron was indeed donated to us in exchange for the advertising blurb you see on login and it's a very nice box even though we didn't build it ourselves. We did hand-build the previous box and it also worked just great, the lesson here being that you *can* have a decent system both ways if you're simply careful and well-informed about what you select. The rack case the Micron uses is also very nice and I think we'd have been hard-pressed to put something together which matched this system feature for feature given that some of the components simply aren't available seperately (and even if they were, we do have better things to do than conduct exhaustive hardware searches for each and every piece). Some homebrew box also wouldn't have been donated by a major manufacturer, of course, saving us tens of thousands of dollars and a lot of time, so chew on that for awhile.
Second, it's basically unknown whether or not Linux would be capable of doing the same job in this role since it's simply not been tried, at least not by us. In order to prove it either way, you'd need to create an equivalent site to ftp.cdrom.com and also colocate it at a major backbone where it could pump out 100mbits/sec on a more or less continuous basis (a 1GB upgrade is also planned and awaiting the arrival of more switch hardware).
It's also fair to say that FreeBSD didn't necessarily excel at this task at the very beginning (some 5 years ago) and it was directly through the experience gained with ftp.cdrom.com that we were able to improve FreeBSD to the point where it was able to handle these kinds of loads. I'm sure that if Linux were provided with a similar real-world test bed, it would be similarly improved if and as necessary and I can only suggest that those folks wishing to provide themselves with this kind of Linux showcase machine should go ahead and build one; I'd personally be very interested in seeing the results of such an effort.
We currently pump out more than 800GB per day and I can assure you that this number will only (significantly) increase once we upgrade the bandwidth to 1 gigabit. As you can see by looking at:
http://www.emsphone.com/stats/cdrom.html
We're basically now maxing out the 100Mbit interface with a 5000 user limit (the major dips you see in this graph were the periods when the box was down for major hardware upgrades, e.g. the 1/2 terabyte RAID array and then the Micron upgrade). The box, in both of its incarnations, has very stable but we've yet to master the in-place hardware upgrade.
It's also probably a little-known fact that we pump out at least 10X the number of Red Hat releases that ftp.redhat.com does, so some of the Linux folks throwing stones here should perhaps pause in mid-throw and consider the service this machine provides to both the FreeBSD AND the Linux communities.
ftp.cdrom.com has long been a mecca for people interested in shareware/freeware of all sorts and we aim to keep it that way well into the future. It's not hyperbole when we say it's the biggest, fastest general public FTP archive in the world and we're always interested in new material (M$ might run bigger server farms, but that they cannot say) so please contact us if you have any suggestions for material we should offer there - ftp@ftp.cdrom.com is our "suggestion box" address.
Other URLs of interest:
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/archive-info/wcarchive.jpg
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/config.txt
- Jordan
Re:Old Man... (Score:1)
Re:correction... (Score:1)
How many private sites could have enough traffic to regularly max out 3600 users? Even for a heavily used server, that takes at least 36,000 people using it. Only a large company or small government serving everything off one server could reach that.
Don't FUD please! (Score:2)
Xenon's have a hack to see more then two gigs, and if you take the word of the Linux kernel hackers it's a very ugly hack.
If you want more then two gigs in linux get a Alpha, it's already 64 bit. On the HIGHER end motherboards Alpha has a much better memory subsystem.
I am not a Alpha bigot, I just play one on slashdot.
Re:Moronic troller (Score:1)
current set up. I think I heard that previous
machines were donated (I have not heard about
the current).
Sometimes you have to work with what you have,
and usually FreeBSD can kick penguin ass if
"what you have" has to do a lot.
Re:Slashdotted? (Score:1)
a site is referenced on Slashdot, so many readers
go to the site that it crashes or is otherwise
unresponsive. Only seems to happen to servers
running Linux.
Re:howardjp you are a little FUD machine aren't yo (Score:1)
I lied through my teeth. Let me reread my other
responses to be sure.
Re:howardjp you are a little FUD machine aren't yo (Score:1)
You obviously didn't read it. (Score:1)
Max'd out already?!?!?! (Score:1)
Welcome to wcarchive - home FTP site for Walnut Creek CDROM.
There are currently 4993 users out of 5000 possible.
Re:What OS? (Score:1)
$ ftp ftp.cdrom.com
Connected to wcarchive.cdrom.com.
220 wcarchive.cdrom.com FTP server (Version DG-3.1.27 Wed Dec 2 01:29:08 PST 1998) ready.
Name (ftp.cdrom.com:[deleted]): ftp
331 Guest login ok, send your email address as password.
Password:
230-Welcome to wcarchive - home FTP site for Walnut Creek CDROM.
230-There are currently 4399 users out of 5000 possible.
230-
230-Most of the files in this area are also available on CDROM. You can send
230-email to info@cdrom.com for more information or to order, or visit our Web
230-site at http://www.cdrom.com. For tech support about our products, please
230-email support@cdrom.com. You may also call our toll-free number:
230-1-800-786-9907 or +1-925-674-0783. Please keep in mind that we only offer
230-technical support for our CDROM products and not for the files on our
230-FTP server.
230-
230-This machine is a Xeon/500 with 4GB of memory & 1/2 terabyte of RAID 5.
230-The operating system is FreeBSD. Should you wish to get your own copy of
230-FreeBSD, see the pub/FreeBSD directory or visit http://www.freebsd.org
230-for more information. FreeBSD on CDROM can be ordered using the WEB at
230-http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/freebsd.htm or by sending email to
230-orders@cdrom.com.
230-
230-Slow downloads? Please see ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/archive-info/slow.txt
230-for more information.
230-
230-100Mbps colocation services provided by CRL Network Services. For more
230-information, please visit http://www.crl.com.
230-
230-Server machine provided by Micron Electronics. Please visit
230-http://www.micronpc.com.
230-
230-Please send mail to ftp-bugs@ftp.cdrom.com if you experience any problems.
230-Please also let us know if there is something we don't have that you think
230-we should!
230-
230 Guest login ok, access restrictions apply.
Remote system type is UNIX.
Using binary mode to transfer files.
ftp>
Credit for PC Maker (Score:2)
Re:What OS? (Score:1)
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
FTP Upgrade (Score:1)
I'd be more than happy to take the old machine off their hands.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
Re:Uh, no. (Score:1)
Basically it's a troll, of the cute variety like you see in alt.folklore.urban from time to time.
He is talking about memory! (Score:1)
A processor with a 32-bit address-bus should technically could address 2^32 bytes of memory (4 Gb). But Linux won't do more than 2Gb or so on a 32-bit processor. Rumour has it that it's because they've used signed integers, but I don't think Linus would have made such an amatour-code. Kinda of remindes me of Bill Gates: "Noone will ever need more than 640k RAM!"
Walnut Creek CD-ROM (Score:1)
Good businesses like this deserve to get your business.
A bunch of kids! (Score:1)
Sheesh... I remember playing Castle Wolfentstein and connecting to BBS's at 300bps with an acoustic coupler.
I had a VT-52 terminal and a 300bps modem, and I was hot stuff. That was in addition to my 8-bit Atari and Altos CP/M machine. sigh Those were the days!
Re:Slashdotted? (Score:1)
Re:case in point... (Score:1)
If you had an icmp logging type program you would be seeing net/dest unreach messages from the CDROM-something.CRL.NET router.
Re:Oh yeah? (Score:1)
As a side note, this computer is still in use (though upgraded to an AMD 5x86 133 (OC to 160), and a second 5G drive (new controller).. Its a good IPMASQ machine and small server..
"store boughts" (Score:1)
so i'm assuming that that machine will be killer for them... i've seen them break gb/day limits over the last year or two, and always being full... personally, i am willing to stick out my neck and say that that is the MOST used FTP server on the web. I think (and thi is if my memory serves me correct) that their record is sending out 359GB in a day... i could be wrong though... (you'd think that they'd display it somewhere)
think about this one... when q3atest is released, they'll go for another reocrd day there... i wanna see those stats
8Complex
Re:small nitpick (Score:1)
personally, i'd love to log in and just look around... there's so much stuff on that site i can never see it all - i don't even know everything that it covers... all i've seen is the game archive for id and a few of the addon directories...
8Complex
I heard there was a "rift" of sorts (Score:1)
Re:CDrom.com has been consistently fast for me (Score:1)
Re:We never tried. (Score:1)
Actually, the login limit is 5000 since the upgrade, and was 3600 for a long time before that.
For naked, unadultered throughput and usage figures, go see http://www.emsphone.com/stats/cdrom.html. [emsphone.com]
Large memory configurations (Score:1)
> BTW, FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE *cannot* go all the way to 4 GB without some serious tuning, so there you have.
Depends on what you consider "serious tuning". You need to grab a recent version of the boot loader (e.g. off of a recent FreeBSD 3.1-STABLE or 4.0-CURRENT installation floppy) and make three rather trivial modifications to the kernel source, as described in section 13.15 of the FAQ [freebsd.org].
4.0-CURRENT as of late February (or eraly March) and 3.1-STABLE as of late April support large memory configurations out of the box.
Note that if you patch a 3.1-RELEASE system to support large memory configurations, you will lose BSD/OS binary compatibility. This has been fixed in 4.0-CURRENT and 3.1-STABLE.
Re:Financial Problems (Score:1)
I'm sorry, but that simply isn't correct. FreeBSD is Walnut Creek CDROM's single largest source of income, and is in no way subsidized by Linux sales. Walnut Creek CDROM is nowhere near financial trouble - in fact, they've been hiring people lately, and spending money quite generously on FreeBSD development.
Had you followed Justin's link... (Score:1)
"This machine is a Xeon/500 with 4GB of memory & 1/2 terabyte of RAID 5.
The operating system is FreeBSD. Should you wish to get your own copy of
FreeBSD, see the pub/FreeBSD directory or visit http://www.freebsd.org
for more information. FreeBSD on CDROM can be ordered using the WEB at
http://www.cdrom.com/titles/os/freebsd.htm or by sending email to
orders@cdrom.com."
Re:Russian Army has fasted FTP server (Score:1)
Russian news and news feeds should be taken with a pound or two of salt. I don't doubt that they have an ftp server, but it's prolly not the fastest in the world. 'Sides, with their money crunch, how many ppl over there (civilians and military) have computers anyway?
--Andrew Grossman
grossdog@dartmouth.edu
Sorry (Score:1)
Re:What OS? (Score:1)
Re:Can Linux use 4GB? (Score:2)
Sun has done it already with Solaris 7 3/99 release:
The Physical Address Extension (PAE) is a new feature of the Intel platform edition of the 3/99 update that provides greater scalability and higher performance for Intel Pentium Pro systems. It allows you to address up to 32 Gbytes of physical memory on a Pentium Pro system. By addressing more physical memory, more processes can reside concurrently in the same physical memory, allowing you to run multiple databases and memory-intensive applications that support large numbers of users.
I would think that any processor based on the PPro would also be able to access 32GB RAM in the same manner. www.x86.org [ddj.com] has information on using 36-bit paging and 2MB pages on the PPro (though according to them they're called _page_ address extensions, not physical address extensions). Wouldn't that give you 64GB though?
P.S. I'd lke to see the Intel system that can hold 32GB RAM....
"provided by" = free, right? (Score:1)
small nitpick (Score:2)
Uh, no. (Score:1)
***Beowulf clusters are only good for _certain_ types of parallel computing problems*** (coarsely grained problems are what it's for...throw something too finely grained at it, and it kills itself with internode communication latency) No more talk of a Beowulf Quake
CJK
Interesting math you have going there... (Score:2)
- pretend everyone was connected at 28.8 kbps
- this is 3.6 K (kilobytes, not bits) per second
- if there are 5000 people @ 3.6 K/second:
5000 * 3600 bytes/sec = 18,000,000 bytes/sec = 17.17 megabytes/sec
This is also operating under the fallacy that everyone is on at 28.8 kbps...there will still be some 14.4's...but also lots of 56 kbps...and then lots of people on faster (perhaps from work) links. Heck, I have 1.54 Mbps (T1) in my apartment....just 12 people like me and you're already sucking up more bandwidth than 5000 people @ 28.8...
CJK
Re:Oh yeah? (Score:1)
Re:Too bad... (Score:1)
this [slashdot.org] just last week.
Re:Interesting math you have going there... (Score:1)
Assuming the bottleneck is the ethernet segment, then the machine has the full 100 Mb/s of total bandwidth for transmitting data since it is a full duplex connection. Given that there is a potential 5000 users and assuming the bandwidth was allocated fairly among the users (which it won't be of course), then each user would be limited to 20 Kb/s.
100 Mb/s / 5000 users = 20 Kb/s per user
Re:cdrom.com always dog-slow for me. (Score:1)
At work, I've hit 400K/sec, but then we have way more OC-48s into BBN than we know what to do with.
Re:Maybe you're one of the lucky few... (Score:1)
divided by 5000 users..
= 20000 BITS per second per person.
Double that. It's a pair of 100Mb connections.
Not that it helps all that much to go from 2k/sec to 4...
But then again, cdrom.com doesn't run at 5000 users constantly, like it did with the 3600 limit.
Re:Can Linux use 4GB? (Score:1)
-- A wealthy eccentric who marches to the beat of a different drum. But you may call me "Noodle Noggin."
Re:5000? (Score:1)
Re:What OS? (Score:1)
Linux = UNIX CLONE
FreeBSD is based on 386BSD. Linux is something Linus dreamed of when he realized that Minix's licence sucked, so he wrote a clone and GPL'd it. Minix is a clone of Unix, so Linux is actually a clone of a clone. However, more companies are starting to port their software to linux than to FreeBSD. Besides, Linux makes a good PC, FreeBSD makes a good server, any questions?
Re:Credit for PC Maker (Score:1)
Since I support those machines along with the operating systems running on them, I want to be familiar with the hardware. This helps because I can keep a standardized set of known working hardware and known working brands, and if there is need for a hardware replacement, I know EXACTLY what to get. Warranties are great and all if you don't want to open the machine up to fix it, but since I am used to putting every computer together myself, its no skin off my back.
I can also generally assemble the computers a lot cheaper by picking and choosing my own parts. And since I can buy them locally, I save the overhead on shipping charges as well.
Just my opinion, for what its worth.
-Restil
Re:We never tried. (Score:1)
Almost every time I go to ftp.cdrom.com, I get the "Sorry, we've reached our limit of 3000 users" message. That place is bizzzzzy.
And I don't think it would have any problems with bandwidth... I believe they've broken their own GB/day transfer records a couple of times now.
I have to say, by the subject of your message I thought you were going to suggest pointing the slashdot effect at that NT cluster in Redmond! :-)
Only one CPU?! (Score:1)
I guess the importance of processor speed is overblown by the media and Intel press releases and not enough attention is given to the importance of lots of RAM and fast hard drives.
Does anyone know what version of FreeBSD they are running?
Re:Linux will win; you will be borged (Score:1)
So, in the real world... :) (Score:1)
Windows vs X-based GUIs (Score:1)
Remember that the current Linux user base is only in the 12-15 million range, but growing _very_ fast. Mexican schools are adopting Linux/GNOME, and China is likely to be predominantly Linux too for cost reasons (it already has a pretty large Linux user base, and there's only just been released a Chinese version of Linux!)... as the desktop user base grows, there's going to be some very rapid advances...
I'm with ya grandpa! (Score:1)
Re:What OS? (Score:1)
That does not make it better. If you just add the x86 bits to the BSD-lite 4.4 source tree, you're going to be in for a nasty surprise.
Re:Can Linux use 4GB? (Score:1)
If you need that much ram, stop using PCs all together. They don't have enough memory bandwidth to serve that much very fast anyways.
Re:What OS? (Score:1)
Its just a re-implmentation of unix.
Re:5000? - Nope (Score:1)
YES! "provided by" = free (Score:1)
I wonder what happened to the old server? I think it should become my graduation present.
~Kevin
Re:Older... (Score:1)
Envy is a greeneyed monster (Score:1)
Re:case in point... (Score:1)
If you and your brother think that downloading from ftp.kernel.org or any other servers
suites your needs better, more power to you.
Re:Too bad... (Score:1)
Yeah, and Yahoo is a single machine. He, he.
Of course you can do clustering on FreeBSD. As the above poster said,
it hasn't been any great interest in it but I know there are some projects.
None as high profile as the Beowulf thou.
FreeBSD has been focusing on trying to get best possible performance on
the most commonly used platform. That's been x86 up to now.
So that you can run a high traffic porn site like persian kitty, a buisy ftp server like cdrom.com,
big web servicing like yahoo or a unix workstation like mine on "lousy hardware".
What will be the most common platform in the future I don't know, but FreeBSD will be there.
There are also a Alpha port for FreeBSD but it is "alpha".
Now that there are a lot of attention towards Linux and the money are pouring in from the big guys,
it is sad that some linux users are bashing BSD when they are getting good press.
Re:Why 4 GB is insane (Score:1)
Not with your help ;) (Score:1)
useful.
Beeing an anonymous poster on Slashdot is your faith.
Links please(Was Russian Army has fasted FTP serve (Score:1)
This sounds interesting. I haven't heard about it thou.
Re:What OS? (Score:1)
Re:1.9 GB currently (Score:1)
I think your problem is one of envy...
Re:What OS? (Score:1)
BOTH do a better job the NT, and cost much less..
It comes down to preference. Every OS has its pros and cons. Linux is middle of the road in usabilty. A compromise between the 'supposed' easy to use GUI of NT, which has still yet to be proven in the enterprise, and the raw power of unix (FreeBSD, HP/UX, Solaris, AIX, etc.)
It comes down to the fact that if you have enough resources, you can do anything.