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Handhelds Hardware

Palm VII Field Trial 108

Posted by CmdrTaco from the stuff-to-read dept.
Querist wrote in with some review experiences of the Palm VII. I can't really confirm or deny if this is real, but it looks legit so I'm running it. Some interesting comments about the next generation of PDAs. Hit the link to read it.
querist writes "I am on the field trial of the Palm VII ... the Palm system with the wireless internet and e-mail. To put it mildly, this thing ROCKS. Fairly quick connection via the local cellular phone network (account is set up by 3COM/Palm Computing) with e-mail.

It comes with 2 mb RAM and a host of PQAs -- Palm Query Apps, including MapQuest, Yahoo! People Search, E*Trade, ESPN.com, ABCNews, and OAG flights, to name a few. It also has the standard applications, including (I have a Pilot 1000 upgraded to 1MB normally) an app for the Graffiti chart so you don't have to use your pen shortcut for it and all of the other normal apps.

I've tested numerous 3rd party apps with it and they all work just fine, including games with greyscale!

The "backlighting" isn't. The pixels themselves glow green when you activate the lighting. That's right... the pixels glow green, not the background. It looks really odd at first, but you get used to it. No more using your Palm units as night lights, folks. :-)

The service is good, but they're still working out the prices for air-time (metered by the KB) and the actual units.

A couple of VERY nice features are that most of the web sites which you hit with the PQAs will warn you if a download is more than 1kb, and on the e-mail it will only download the first 500 or so bytes and then tell you how much is left, so you can opt to get more, get all that's left, or delete the message without spending your KBs for the month.

Overall, I am very impressed with the unit and we have some solid potential uses here at my company for this new technology. I would strongly urge anyone who is working and developing PalmOS applications for business use to look into the Palm VII for applications which need to access large amounts of data on the run.

No, I am not a Palm Computing or 3 COM employee. I just think PalmOS is a great OS to use for handhelds and it's great that there are good Linux apps out there for development, so I can limit my Windows time to playing games with my 4 yr old.

-Q "
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Palm VII Field Trial

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  • It sounds like the same backlighting thing as my Palm V. I am still trying to get used to it.

    I was priveledged to use a Minstral for a few months with my older PalmPro. It too rocked, but the size was quite a limitation. Even the size of the Palm VII bothers me, and I'll personally be waiting 'till they fit the PalmVII in a PalmV profile.

    The only thing that really bugs me about the PalmVII is the possibility of having the traffic metered.

  • OOO! (Score:1)

    by Erk ( 17215 )
    I want one! Maybe this would be a good PDA to get considering I still have an original Newton! Yeah!
  • did I hear anyone say grey scale on palm VII ??
    COOL !!!

  • Not color... blah... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Forget Palm, they are old news. The new Windows CE (yeah windows, oh well) palm-size pc units are color, have mp3 and mpeg video playback, some have stereo input and output jacks (bye bye Rio), some are 256 colors but the Casio is 65k colors and has 16 megs of RAM (this new palm has 1 meg!?). They all have built in modems (for landline) and cellar connectors, and have a type-2 compact flash card which you can plug a type-2 celluar uplink and do the same thing as this new palm.

    Color Palm-size PC FAQ [pdadash.com]

    The best thing - they will be out in APRIL - no more waiting. No green-or-white or fake grayscale. Better sound. Selectable input methods. Cool games (including Gameboy and Sega emulators). Even a Palm emulator for those hold-backs...

    BTW - this is what ***I*** am looking for in a pocket-sized no-keyboard computer. You may be looking for just an address book. In that case I recommend using one of those $3.99 ones from Staples or Office Depots, made from paper. Or get a Palm if you think you look cool with it, but good luck learning that damn input method (which some people like, but I'll bet they haven't used Jot or Calligrapher).

    Anyways, be sure to look around and see what YOU like rather than just diving for the "not-Microsoft" choice. I'm gald I did.

  • Forgive me if I'm wrong, but don't the CE machines generally blow chunks as far as actual real-world use? They may look good, but if you can only use it for an hour or three, it's not going to work for the average commuter/biztraveler who is the supposed market for them. Palms run at least 12 hours on a set of batteries, and the new rechargable sounds like a great idea (notwithstanding the puny RAM).

    Geeks will always have our toys, but if the CE machines want to catch on (and based on the available apps vs. the Palm, they aren't), they need to look at how people actually use their machines.

    Also, based on every CE machine I've tested, vs. the Palms that I have used, the input method for the Palm is superior to Jot.

  • Not color... yeah! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Personally, I've always thought that the fact that the Palm doesn't have color meant that 3COM has always supported function over form (the way it should be). I would expect any rich yuppie fool who wanted to show off to his friends to love the new WinCE machines, but the people that use a PDA to actually manage major parts of their lives should probably stick to the Palm. Since when did you feel the need to play MP3's out of your dinky PDA in the first place? Talk about battery drain. There's a reason why the battery life for a PalmV is measured in weeks, not in hours. You sound like someone who would say that Yahoo! should put Shockwave/CSS2/Java on every page.

    It's the same reasoning. Yahoo! (and Palm) expect their users to use their product for a long period of time. WinCE has glitz and glamour to catch the eye, but that shit just gets annoying after a while. It's the reason I have a Palm, and will always have a Palm (until they decide to make them all color and capable of playing MP3s).
  • It is supported by the hardware, but not by the OS.
    Greyscale uses twice as much RAM for graphics, so I guess that why they left it out.
    Remember that the first Pilot only had 256K of RAM. (or so)
    I have heard rumors that the PalmV hardware does not support grey scale though.
    The Palm VII is based on the same old hardware as always, though.
  • I know ... my newton is also grey scale ....
    but after all these years .. palm pilot eventually got a gey scale screen ...
    I really don't expect a 16bit clolor screen for a such a small handheld device.
  • Would be interested in knowing (1) what wireless carrier was used, and (2) what wireless data comm technology was used, e.g., CDPD, Paging network, Analog cellular, etc.
  • I have'nt shopped recently for a PDA, but what is the price difference between a Palm and those flashy WinCE machine ?

    I would'nt pay 800$ for a PDA. I'll buy a used laptop instead. PDA should be cheap if they want to be Personnal.

    On another note : did they crash frequently ?
    (That's where the color become interesting : you can have a blue screen ;)
  • Found this at Gadgeteer Palm V Review [the-gadgeteer.com] "But, thanks to Calvin's New Palm Info, I learned that there is a toggle to reverse the reversed backlight and make it what I would consider normal. You do the shortcut command, .8 to reverse the screen." Don't know if this works with the VII but it works great with the V. Vermifax
  • MMMMm..... are you re you are using you palm sized PC correctly ?
    according to my imagination, i think you palm sized PC will need a larger screen and more ram ..
    at least you should get 256MB of Ram for it.
    every mp3 songs need at leat 2-3 MB of space
    also ... if u want to play games with you palm sized pc ... U should have a bigger screen, otherwise we'll be quite worried about your eyes.
    I am not saying that winCE is not good. CE is very good .... some how it is too good for a plam size device, and not good enough for a destop PC or laptop. It's situation is just like Newton, it was too powerful for handheld device or too complicated, but not good enough for desktop.
    The situation is, if win CE is being developed and marketed by other small company other than MS.. I am sure it's already dead by now ... MS tried very hard to expeand it's market byt giving it away at very cheap price ... and always promise improvements ...
  • I've got a RIM [rim.net] 950 Inter@ctive pager that uses the same network as the Palm VII will. Coverage is sometimes spotty in "non-business areas" (as classifed by BellSouth [bellsouthwd.com]). That means it won't work at my house which kind of sucks. And incentive to get out more?

    When it's doing its thing, it's awesome. I've had some problems with the net-bound mail taking anywhere up to 1/2 an hour to leave their network but unit to unit communication is almost instant.

  • One thing that gets me about the Win CE machines (apart from the M$ software) is that it seems to be impossible to program or write 3rd party apps for the thing. Unless I am really mistaken, you can't develop your own software to run on a CE machine. This is a feature I really value in the Palm Pilots, even if their hardware (RAM and lack of peripherals) is much less than that of the CE machines, for the same price.
  • My friend recivied a "Windows CE Development Kit" in the mail, but it (of course) only works with Visual C++. He used it as a cat toy.

  • Not real TCP/IP? (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 20, 1999 @10:22AM (#1970832)
    I hear that the wireless access on this thing is limited to HTTP access, through a proxy, to things that have a PQA and maybe even a special deal with 3Com. If that's true, that's not cool. Using a Ricochet [metricom.com] modem, people in the San Francisco Bay Area can get full, real, bi-directional TCP/IP support on anything going back to the Palm Professional. They can then use any of a large number of Pilot network apps of all descriptions, including things like an SSH client. If that's not possible on the new model, it is a real step backwards (except for the wider service area).
  • As a long time (2.5 years) Palm user, I am afraid that 3Com is taking Palm in the wrong direction. The market perception is that Palm is not evolving while the WinCE platform is.

    Yes, the PalmOS doesn't need much RAM, but they really should put more RAM into the little buggers. Color - boy, they've missed the boat on this one. Color always sells more - look TV, the PC and the Mac. Once color became available, nobody wanted monochrome. And the Palm V - people are already referring to them as the "Lady Palm" - just look at their latest ad in Wired! They slimed it down so it will fit in a purse - come on, ladies - what's wrong with wearin' 'em on your belt? :-)

    As for programming them, the Palm may be easier to code for than WinCE, but then again, you're coding for a 15 year old Mac SE disguised as a handheld! 16MHz 68000, 2MB RAM, monochrome display, proprietary OS...

    I keep eyeing the new WinCE handhelds because I think color is cool but - there's the battery life issue and big bad Microsoft.

    How far away is Handspring (Jeff Hawkins/Donna Dubinsky - Pilot creators) away from their initial product?
  • I have a Palm Pilot, and I am beginning to envy the WinCE machines. I wish that 3Com would start licensing the Palm OS to others so that there would be plenty of different vendors trying to add various new gadgets and competing to build a better and more interesting machine. I _like_ that the Pilot does what I need it to, and no more, but I wouldn't mind seeing other companies experimenting with possibilities.

    I don't think 3Com can compete over the long term with dozens of other companies trying to create their own WinCE PDAs.

    -Dean
  • Battery life is everything, color is nothing. Twenty years ago, when a friend was eyeing a color display (it cost $1,200 for a 128x64 pixel display) I bought him a Hasbro Lite-Brite. You want portable color, buy some crayons.
    -russ
  • I've seen at least 3 palm models that weren't made by 3com.
    The Ibm Workpad (which was really a plam pro i know)
    the symbol pdt1000(or something) that was a palm III with a barcode scanner integrated --for use in inventorying)
    there was one other, but i can't think of it
  • Color is great in a handheld game machine, and sometimes I *have* wished my PalmPilot had some good games! :-) But I mainly use my PalmPilot for my business. It's light, it keeps all my important phone numbers and appointments, and I keep quick light notes and reminders it it. Why do I use a PalmPilot instead of a paper organizer? I can backup my PalmPilot to my PC. After having once lost my old paper organizer I consider that a BIG advantage! I can afford to replace my Pilot (it would hurt.. but I could afford it). The lost information and appointments would cost a *lot* more!!
  • I'm a Palm Developer (Star Pilot mainly). At one point, MS contacted me via email (a real person even, not just a mailing list) and asked if they provided free SDK's and tools for developers would I be interested. I said sure and never heard anything from them again...



  • Posted by K-Hole:

    I have looked at quite a few PDA's recently and I am really drooling over the Palm V and now the Palm VII but I am wondering why thier so expensive.

    If you compare them with the machines that run Win CE and that come with 8 megs or more it seems you are getting a lot more for your buck for the Win CE machine.

    Is there a specific reason why the Pilot is expensive?
  • There are several apps to hook a GPS up to your pilot, either a tripmate or any GPS with a screen. I can get my tripmate to run off the serial port of my palm 3 without any trouble, but i would rather use my laptop for it, because keeping the parallel port open like that sucks down the batteries on the palm. now if it was built in, that would be a different story.
  • is the Qualcomm Palm3/Cell phone. looks far different than most palm systems, the keypad covers most of the screen until you flip it open, and the address book can dial the contacts by clicking on them.
  • About a zillion manufacturers are jumping on the CE bandwagon. The competition tends to drive down prices. That`s about the only thing I can think of.

  • I'm pretty sure it's only 2 shades of gray (1bpp to 2bpp).
  • Color--why bother on a palm-sized device? If you think about what you really use these things for, you'll realise that color doesn't really add anything to the experience. Color screens tend to be harder to read in many lighting conditions, too.

    RAM--I had a Cassiopaeia E-11 (8MB RAM) before I got my Palm V (2MB). The RAM on the Palm V goes a lot further than the Cassiopaeia, because of the way that apps are written, and memory is managed.

    Input Methods--I used Jot for a month to give it a fair trial. It's nowhere near as good as Graffiti. Win CE allows you to change to a Graffiti mode though, which is good.

    MP3--As others have said, with only 16MB RAM, what's the point?

    Overall--Win CE devices crash frequently, run slowly, and require multiple taps to achieve the most common tasks. Palm devices are more reliable, react instantly, and do common tasks in 1 tap or character (write a number to create an appointment at that time; write a character to jump there in the address book--Win CE does this to, but only if you tap the Find area to give it the focus; ...)
  • It's a "Personal Data Assistant" not a "Really Small Computer" - people actually want to use these to get work done while in transit or in remote areas, not so they can play quake or mp3s on the subway home. If you want to do that... use your computer.
    256MB of RAM? Geeze, I only have 32 in my desktop.
  • As for programming them, the Palm may be easier to code for than WinCE, but then again, you're coding for a 15 year old Mac SE disguised as a handheld!

    Oh no! Old technology! Kill it! Kill it!
    Relax - the SE was a good computer that got the job done admirably. Who cares if it isn't "whiz-bang" - the Palm is useful and cheap (though not nearly as cheap as it could be).

  • I have a friend whose SE still soldiers on. :-)

    My point was that most people don't realize what's under the hood of a Palm. With all the 68000 knowledge out there, it's no wonder that so many people have written such great code for the Palm.

    WinCE is purposely difficult to code for - you have to use Bill's tools to get anything done!
  • Wow, so that means if I carry around a pair of headphones, a microphone, another set of batteries, a car adapter (and a car, damn that'll be heavy) I can use my ce all day. Wow. You know, you make my pilot sound even better..
  • Posted by Nedwin_H_Longfellow:

    Yeah, I guess this is pretty cool stuff. It's about time though. I wouldn't even consider a PDA until it has FULL network connectivity... otherwise what's the point?

    Personally, I'll pass on all this proprietary crap. The sub-notes are getting smaller, the palmtops aren't getting THAT much better. Surely it won't be more than a few years before somebody comes up with a PC-compatible palmtop. That's right, a real PC the size of a palmtop. I want a real processor, real RAM, BIOS, hard drive (maybe solid state, not spinning platter), ports (miniature is fine with me as long as there's a port replicator), and a keyboard and stylus. Then I'll run whatever OS on it I like.

    A palmtop, be it PalmOS or CE is just an overgrown graphing calculator. I want a PC that size. Until then I'll stick with my HP48G, my Dayplanner, and my real computers. IMHO the current batch of palmtops are overpriced junk that do a poor job trying to combine all these devices. Surely somebody could make a 486 100Mhz or something the size of a palmtop, couldn't they?
  • I'm with you. My MessagePad 110 will never leave my hands. I don't care if we switch to roll-up sheet computers (they're discussed @ mit and stanford), the MP stays.

    Mike
    --

  • I'm seriously considering buying a Palm:
    I want to take down notes and important information, etc. If I have an idea, I don't want to write it on a paper and put in my pocket and lose it.

    I could just use a pad of paper, but the attraction of a Palm is being able to send the data to a PC, or back to the Palm, or to another user. Paper info is bulkier and harder to use.

    Do Palms have a search function for notes and scraps and such? If I jot notes from a class for example, or a conference, or a business meeting, can I do a search for a keyword or a person, and get back the related notes? You can't search a pad of paper very effectively.

    Anyone?

    Is it useful to get a Palm for these purposes?

    AS
  • hehe...sounds like someone wants a tri-corder.
    Heck, didn't Wired feature some device that detected the temp., barometer, ions, etc.?

    They should throw these features in as well :)
  • Handspring is rumored to have its first product release by the end of the year.

    In response to another person's question about searching on the Palm: yes, the search capabilities are quite good and fast. And there are extensions ("hacks")for regular expressions, etc.


    Oh, and I'd kill for a Palm VII. The CE machines are always later than announced, less effective than claimed, and people that buy them stop using them soon after purchase. The MP3 a/v one from Casio is going to be $800-$1000. When it is ever released. Blech.

    -bob
  • hehehe OI was hoping I'd find one like this. (Although I've tried to be sane :) ) Slashdot or palm should do a big survey actualyl finding out what peopple want :)
    I just want:
    1. Minimalist screen with b & w if it saves battereys, although colour would be cool
    2. A CPU that doesn't lag on typical applications on the unit
    3. Really good mime email program
    4. Lots of memory to store lots of email in
    5. Direct TCP/IP connection - hopefully with option to support 100MB networks (I work in a datacentre, and that would be ideal for keeping notes on, etc)
    6. Option to get a modem - and not that rubbish palm modem, a real one to connect to the net with. (Although that's probably more OS related than the modem itself - but who'd buy a modem to connect to their home computer with?)
    7. Web browser
    8. Keyboartd addon and terminal shell

    If they can bring out a good palm machine with 100Mb networking and good email support and probably an addon keyboard with a GOOD (note the word GOOD - none of this shitty windowsterminal rubbish) term program, I'll slap my money down. Immediately. you listening 3com? :)
  • if palmsize pc only got 8 MB of ram , he can only store 2 songs (at most).
    Also i think CE is a Small Computer .. because .. when I first know what a PDA is ... i thought it's an electronic device, I never seen anyone of those crash when I input addressbook or anything lke that .... Also whenever I press any button, the corresponding program or function will popup instantly ..
    but CE craches alot .. and pretty slow .... it got the symtoms of win9x and NT .. so I think it's a computer ...
  • It seems not... At least my experience, prior to owning a Palm was that I thought they were toys. "Who would want one of those things?" I used to say.

    Shortly after owning my Palm, which I purchased only because I thought I was going to write some software for it, I realized that "handheld computer" is the wrong paradigm and "data acquisition device" is the correct one.

    Now I'm a total convert. And how cool is it to sync with my notebook computer with just a click of a button? A friend of mine uses CE. Syncing anything except the address book is a major pain in the processor, I mean brain.
  • WinCE Toolkit = $190, Visual C++ = much more. Pretty expensive to write a "Hello world" type apps.
  • >Do Palms have a search function for notes and >scraps and such? If I jot notes from a class for >example, or a conference, or a business >meeting, I've been using my palm at work for about 4-5 months now and this is exactly what I use it for.
    • diary for setting meetings, recording daily schedule
    • xpense account for purchases
    • reading a book on the way to work (aportisDoc)
    • chess
    • reading todays wired (via AvantGo)
    • searching for items (by assigning each a nuique code, usually a few letters say vl for volts (yeah I record the battery voltage each day)
      • >can I do a search for a keyword or a person, >and get back the related notes? yes, see above. If U can afford one, buy at least a pilot professional (you will require TCP/IP, not found in the earlier models)...the Palm iiix is a good bet, 2 the mem of a P3 and a few other nifty upgrade options (not found in the flashy overpriced P4)

  • Do Palms have a search function for notes and scraps and such?

    It has a global search function that looks for strings in everything. Applications provide hook functions for searching, so data formats are handled in some meaningful way.

  • My Palmpro runs for like 1-2 months on a set of batteries. not 12 hours. that is the biggest CE problem is that it dies so quickly. not that the O/S is particularly wonderful either.
    Stuart Eichert
    U. of PENN student/FreeBSD hacker
  • I think you are right on with this one. I own a computer at home and use that for computation purposes. I use my palm for nothing more than its basic functions (address, schedule, to do, short notes). I think palm apps should focus around the sharing and acquisition of data. If we get really abstract we can see ourselves as part of the data network carrying an interface device(the palm) and using it to send and receive data with people we meet in person.
    Stuart Eichert
    U. of PENN student/FreeBSD hacker
  • Good point. The only thing I would like to see (not sure if they have it yet) is a screen that was true b&w. That is, like black type on bleached, William Randolph Hearst brand white paper. I much preferred web pages with background color simply because they could have white, rather than grey, backgrounds.

  • Who cares about color? Now really. While the CE boxen are rather neet, everyone is missing the point of the palm pilot. Its a hacking toy. It does wonderful things with the IR port, it plays addicting chessey games, its keeps things in it that you would normally use a little scrap of paper for, and then loose it when you need it most. If you want video, or good sound, quit being cheap, buy a laptop. If you want something thats fun to play with, and functional, get a pilot. I have a palm III, I wouldnt trade it for a ce box, not matter all the bells and whistles. And, the reason ce is doing so well, is m$ has the monopoly. If 3com was wise, they would adapt a version of palm os for the other pdas, even add keyboard support in for it... or hey, maybe even adapt a tiny version of linux that takes full advantage of the features... hmmmmm. btw, if ya cant learn the graphiti alphabet, there is something wrong :)
  • Also stuff happening this side of the pond - EPOC based machines will be emerging in a number of guises as announced at CeBIT.
    CeBIT: http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/special/ 19symbian.html [zdnet.com]
    Ericsson R380: http://www.symbian.com/co rporate/news/1999/pr990318a.html [symbian.com]
    Ericsson MC218: http://5alive.psionking.com/Ar chives99/Mar19_185.htm [psionking.com]

    Personally I'm waiting for the Psion 5 with Java, but the phones are interesting.
  • Yeah, but that's what bothers me about this palmtop trend. WinCE machines (can we call them machines? no moving parts...) keep getting bigger and bigger. Some of them at my local CompUSA are the size of the Sony VAIO 505F I just bought (lessee.. Crap operating system, 8-bit color, small amount of ram; compared to Linux 2.1.7, 64M of RAM, 4.1GB hard drive, built in sound, MPEG-2 built in, 56k modem built in, the list of features just goes on. WinCE box: 2.4 lbs, Vaio 505F: 2.9 lbs), and they do so much less. So, want something that's palm-sized? Look into the Toshiba Libretto. It's a REAL COMPUTER in the space of a VCR cassette.
  • The real power comes from using PQAs. PQAs easy for anybody to create and limit the amount of data being transfered. My understanding is that any web page can be grabbed as well. It all does go through a proxy server. Maybe somebody could get us more details on this.
  • From a personal standpoint, wearable computing is awesome :) My unit will be completed tomorrow, $2600 for a am5x86 133 processor, 36 megs of ram, ethernet, 3.2 gig hd, etc.. Its a very nice system with a good looking HMD (head mounted display) Ill never go palmtop !
  • Well, yeah it'd be 4 total colors, but only 2 greys. In binary:
    00 - white
    01 - grey #1
    10 - grey #2
    11 - black

    at least i assume that's how it would be done.

  • I could (Score:1)

    by GiMP ( 10923 )
    my new PC is tiny, the largest parts is the case and the connectors... Unfortunately due to the size of standard pc's people have forgotten that when we get smaller pc's we need smaller ports. I could put together a machine using pc104 arch (cheaper) or DimmPC (expensive, smaller, slower) which could do the work of any standard pc but the ports would be the largest, possibly with the advent of USB we will be able to chain devices over a single tiny port. But the question is, how much do you plan to spend on a PDA ?

    Am5x86 133 Processor /w motherboard $400
    SiS Video Chipset, 2 megs ram (integrated)
    4 megs onboard edo ram: upgradable to 68 megs
    flatpanel lcd display ~$160
    standard ports $17
    48 meg solid state disk +$100 (unsure about this, probally more)

    ~= $717

    not including a custom-built enclosure and we would probally need drivers for the touch screen on the lcd. Sounds pretty cheap, but then consider price of batteries (depending on how long you want it to run) and sound would involve more money + space...
  • I don't think 3Com can compete over the long term with dozens of other companies trying to create their own WinCE PDAs.

    Note items 3 and 4.

    MS's handheld tactics so far:

    Write crappy, bug ridden OS while hyping the vaporware until the gullible press is in a frenzy.

    Spend millions convincing hardware companies to invest even more millions developing hardware for it.

    Dictate exact hardware requirements to manufacturers, preventing them from innovating on their own, so all the resulting units are essentially identical, generic commodities.

    Make as much money as possible licensing the OS while the competition between hardware vendors cuts their margins to pennies per unit.

    Revise crappy OS and hardware requirements, try to steal the name and market of the very innovator that created the market.

    Don't bother to think about what works and why it works, just more and more questionable "features" in there until the hardware screams for another upgrade.

    Repeat as necessary, using monopoly profits and the resulting desperation of the hardware vendors, the press, and MS toadies to whip them in line.


    Notes:

    MS doesn't care about the hardware competition, and the vendors can't afford to cut prices because they have too much of a vested interest right now.

    I tracked the inventory of the WinCE 1 units we received. We had to sell them each an average of SIX times before the damned things stayed sold.

    My own tracking of the WinCE 2 units reveals that they aren't much better at "staying out the door."
  • According to some "inside" industry information I have, at least a few of the new color WinCE PDAs have TFT color screens that are visible "in any light". Personally, I don't know how they'll do this. Screen makers have tried this for years. But it would only make sense, seeing as you don't want a constant backlight on 2 AA's, eh?
  • well you know EPOC symbian style

    know what im talking about ? no?

    oh well here we go

    first of all Colour (im in the UK) is on the new PSION it is 32 bit and comes in 2 model's one a bit like the palm but smaller and NO scribbling (handwriting recognition ) PSION think that most of the stuff is checking Box's and basic entry don't ask me I haven't seen this one !

    But what I have seen is colour sub notebook if that the right term for it psion have always been the king when it came to keyboards in a small way hell typing on a CE machine doesn't cut it !

    they are very cool!
    psion batteries last weeks/months not the days stuff and they are doing it again !!(advanced batterys like those sony wanted to use)

    full word (a WP), as in their word that is in the OS and has a word count A Novelty for CE machines they make you go get one of the net ! bah

    import export from all major WP hell I want one to KEEP

    and this stuff is going to be on a mobil phone soon ! hah not for the peoples of USA tho as feds wont let them use GSM as they cant break it.

    ah well sorry guys but you chose the wrong path as 3com has a 40% share in Symbian so they will use it soon it is far superior to 3Com palm OS lets face it

    go ahead make my day quote some figures !

  • Same here. I usually get 2 months life out of my batteries.

    We have several CE machines here, and the biggest gripe we have are the lack of battery life.

    On the plus side though, we've got a new helpdesk system arriving soon, and it supports Palm and not CE! ;-)
  • I'm now on my second Palm device (just upgraded to Palm IIIx, which has 4 MB and a better screen, and a free slot for future upgrades).

    PalmOS has its limitations but the key thing is that the built-in apps are small, efficient, easy to learn, while there is a plethora of excellent third party apps, and PalmOS is very reliable as long as you run decent apps. Its uptime is measured in days, while my NT laptop (with 96MB) has an uptime of days before a reboot is required for some reason.

    Above all, Palm devices are really quick - I can search 320 address book entries in 4 seconds on the IIIx, and in 10 seconds on my P233 laptop using Outlook and NT (identical data and search). Outlook is even slower searching our company contacts database, and I can probably now fit this into my IIIx if needed.

    And of course, there are Palm development tools available for almost every operating system - Windows, Mac, Linux, *nix, etc. Try syncing a WinCE machine with non-Microsoft apps and OSs...

    I was at the IETF last week, and it's interesting to note that at least some of the Microsoft people there use Palm devices!
  • Do you have any pics that you could post? I would be interested in seeing pics and perhaps a "journal"/plans for building one.

    --
  • Posted by keithahern:

    I played with a Palm VII a few months ago. This thing (if the price is right) is going to sell millions of units, why ? * I clicked on the yahoo email lookup, entered my name and city - pressed 'go' 7 seconds later after 3-4 seconds of actually using the wireless service I had my email address returned to me. * I clicked on traffic - 7 seconds later - traffic on all the roads around me (it knows where you are - due to using the cellphone network) * I clicked on an ATM locator and got 6 within a half mile. * I checked my bank balance.. * I almost ordered movie tickets... The above scenarios add up to 30-40 seconds of actually using the wireless service. RESULT * Battery life people! * 'just the facts' responses. The Palm VII rocks.
  • I have to agree that the metering is not, IMHO, a good idea, however, you CAN look up an address in the address book and add it. The shortcut is /L for LOOKUP. You tap the name and then the ADD button, and presto! the address is in the TO field.

    I really want to keep this unit, but I'll have to give it back when the field trial is done so they can get the not-really-production units out of circulation before the real units go out.

    -Q

  • "...i almost forgot: it's also a scientific calc"

    And boy is it ever! Are there programming tools for the HP-48gx for Linux?

  • I have a few pictures and such, and am designing a webpage about it and such... Ill email you with more information when I make it available :P
  • The unit I have is not upgradable.
    The only thing that opens on the unit is
    the battery compartment. :-(

    I hope that
    the good folks at Palm Computing/3COM will
    reconsider this and make it more like the
    IIIx, which if my memory serves has 4 MB of RAM and an open expansion slot in the rear.

  • Yeah, but the network we use at work is all 100MB, and I want to be able to get all my email through there, etc. I couldn't tive a damn aboutthe speed to be honest, it's the connectivity that's important.

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