Trump Admin Plans To Shut Down the Energy Star Program 249
According to the Washington Post (paywalled), the Trump administration plans to eliminate the Energy Star program -- a long-standing EPA initiative that has saved Americans over $500 billion in energy costs since 1992. "The organization states that the average American saves about $450 per year on energy bills by choosing appliances that have been Energy Star-certified," adds Engadget. From the report: The EPA hasn't said when this would go into effect and when consumers would stop seeing Energy Star certifications on home appliances. It's technically illegal for a presidential administration to end this program without Congress, but the same goes for many of Trump's pronouncements and executive orders. "Eliminating the Energy Star program would directly contradict this administration's promise to reduce household energy costs," Paula Glover, president of the nonprofit coalition Alliance to Save Energy, told CNN. "For just $32 million a year, Energy Star helps American families save over $40 billion in annual energy costs. That's a return of $350 for every federal dollar invested."
What is the purpose of Government? (Score:5, Interesting)
You have to start wondering if Trump even knows what the purpose of government is for?
Trump's administration promises reduced energy costs yet tries to kill a program that directly reduces energy costs. You have to wonder what behind closed doors was discussed that prompted this line of action. Who got in his ear and what agenda was behind it.
OR
Was it that he just didn't like the stickers on appliances?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
1) break government
2) privatize what's left
3) profit
that's really it. they have zero care (the R party) for regular non-billionaire people. regular people need government. ultra rich are the ones who pay government to make laws that favor them.
I guess its not clear to everyone so it will be stated again: the R party is the robber baron party and they are not here to HELP anyone but themselves.
Re:What is the purpose of Government? (Score:5, Interesting)
1) break government
2) privatize what's left
3) profit
that's really it. they have zero care (the R party) for regular non-billionaire people. regular people need government. ultra rich are the ones who pay government to make laws that favor them.
I guess its not clear to everyone so it will be stated again: the R party is the robber baron party and they are not here to HELP anyone but themselves.
That is exactly his plan for Medicare [marketwatch.com]. He wants to force everyone into a private scheme so they pay more for less. In addition, the government will shell out nearly $2 trillion over a decade to private industry which is far more than it pays now.
Re:What is the purpose of Government? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What is the purpose of Government? (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
The R party since Reagan have been following a playbook designed by the Heritage Foundation. Prior to Trump they were mostly only able to implement "lite" versions of various plans. With Trump he is following the playbook exactly and doing everything in it as fast as possible.
The Heritage Foundation or similar previous groups have been around since at least the Civil War, possibly as long as America itself. Authoritarian, racist, greedy, evil with a sugar coating of nationalism and religion.
The overall plan
Re: (Score:3)
The R party since Reagan have been following a playbook designed by the Heritage Foundation. Prior to Trump they were mostly only able to implement "lite" versions of various plans. With Trump he is following the playbook exactly and doing everything in it as fast as possible.
But now they are also implementing the desires of a hostile foreign dictator.
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Step 0) of course being "claim government is broken" so when step 1 happens they can say "see, we told you so"
Seriously, who was asking for this?
Re: What is the purpose of Government? (Score:3)
That's always been the goal, Trump's just overt about it.
Re:What is the purpose of Government? (Score:4, Insightful)
Ever since the Newt Gingrich era and the launch of Fox, the rise of Limbaugh the political project of the Republican Party has been to dismantle the government. Some of it's for money, some for power and for most it's just a dislike of liberals. I don't think they are even sure why anymore, just action for actions sake.
They've been oppositional and so so mad for so long that they have no actual beliefs left. It's not freedom, it's not the Constitution, it's not a good economy, it's not free markets, it's not free speech, it's not being fiscal, it's not even socially conservative. What do they believe? I can't believe what they say because they keep supporting the opposites of all those!
The contract with America (Score:5, Informative)
The Republican party has been sabotaging America for going on 40 years at least and then taking advantage of the chaos and confusion. It was a core part of project 2025. They call it shock and awe now.
Re:The contract with America (Score:5, Interesting)
If there's a possible silver lining to this whole shitshow it's that the GOP as we've known it since Reagan could implode. They've put all their chips on Trump and if this does fail they have nobody left. His son's can't do it, JD can't do it. Musk can't do it even if they weasled him into eligibility. Nobody in the cabinet can do it. I was worried Ramaswamy would be the guy to carry it on but no worries there, he got the cut in classic fashion.
Nobodies got the juice, without Trump they are juiceless.
They gave up all their supposed principles for this guy and now they're getting everything they said they wanted. If that doesn't work there's nothing left for them besides a civil war from the worst aspects they've accrued.
Re: (Score:2)
If there's a possible silver lining to this whole shitshow it's that the GOP as we've known it since Reagan could implode.
Don't hold your breath. They mutate and evolve; their gullibility and hate will outlive all of us. Trump's first term was thought to be aberration in American politics, following by Biden being a revert to mean. But here we are. I think we're in a new era of malignant stupidity.
Re: (Score:3)
It doesn't matter. The global economic system that's existed since Bretton Woods and the subsequent Nixon/Volker shock is dead. The tariff plan killed it, even if it never fully takes effect. Just the threat and partial implementation did enough damage. I have no idea what comes next, but America is gonna find out what it feels like to not have the entire world propping up our currency. Right now the oligarchs are busy stri
Re:The contract with America (Score:4, Informative)
So you are totally cool with exploiting cheap labor to maximize shareholder profits at the expense of the American worker? How nice of you! That's what the entire system has done to us over the past 50 years in America. I didn't see the Democrats stopping that either. Hardly. Some party of labor they are.
I wasn't making a value statement about the current system. I'm just saying putting the a gun to the back of the world economy's head and pulling the trigger is not the answer. Over half the globe is setup to make shit for us to buy. And that half depends on selling that shit so they can get US dollars so they can buy oil and import food.
Whatever the moral valence of the previous status quo, Malaysian peasants will be starving in a year or two because of what is transpiring now with US economic policy.
Re: What is the purpose of Government? (Score:4, Insightful)
They only believe in their own wallets and by making the government powerless they can get away with activities that on paper is illegal.
Basically just make the US a banana republic.
Re: (Score:3)
Probably because the "Hispanics" that live there actually lived under communist rule and know how shitty is really is. Cubans are nothing like the rest of Latin America in that perspective.
Also, the rest are mostly Catholic and many of them are much more conservative then liberals care to admit.
While this won't happen, if Republicans actually embraced Latinos, Democrats would never win another election. That's how many Hispanics there are and if Republicans weren't so xenophobic, would have a religious ally
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
All other purposes went straight out the window when we elected a child rapist who steals classified documents to be president a second time.
He didn't even lie to us this time. He told us he was going to do a nasty trade war it's just 77 million Americans were too lazy and stupid to figure out what that meant and 7 million Americans were just flat out denied the right to vote for Kama
Re:What is the purpose of Government? (Score:5, Insightful)
He didn't even lie to us this time. He told us he was going to do a nasty trade war it's just 77 million Americans were too lazy and stupid to figure out what that meant and 7 million Americans were just flat out denied the right to vote for Kamala Harris.
When your boat sinks because there's a big fucking hole in the hull, it does absolutely no good to blame the sinking on the asshole college kid who thought it would be hilarious to pour his beer into your boat as it began going under.
Trump won because the majority of the electorate (out of those who made the effort to cast a vote) didn't feel any of Trump's previous transgressions disqualified him from holding office again. That's the real issue here. You keep talking about a woulda-coulda-shoulda scenario based on razor thin margins, and I'm here saying that in a sane society, a race against Trump shouldn't even be close in the first place, and when it is, that's the real problem.
Re:Fuck off with the child rapist stuff (Score:5, Insightful)
It may not be enough for *you* that he went to Epstein's parties, has been found in court to have raped someone, and was notorious for walking in on undressed 16 year olds in his beauty pageants, but it sure is enough for me.
And it may not be enough for you that we have fucking photos on boxes of classified information all over fucking Mar-a-Lago, but again, it sure is enough for me.
I don't need to wait for a criminal conviction in a court of law to make inferences about this guy. Frankly, he's already shown to us that actual criminal convictions are meaningless as a check on power in modern America.
Re:What is the purpose of Government? (Score:5, Interesting)
I believe that this falls into the same category as eliminating paper straws and disencouraging EV's.
His wealthy oil donors need a market for the oil that they want to "drill baby drill".
I think the general gist is to create an environment that needs more fossil fuels to create a market for his mates.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
It's a death cult.
And if you think that's overstating things, then I invite you to consider this question: what, exactly, would they be doing differently if they weren't? Every action they're taking -- destroying the environment, shutting down medical research, bringing back coal, etc.,
Friends warned me about voting for Kamala Harris (Score:2)
that her economic team's plan for dealing with the deficit was to levy ginormous taxes on businesses that would be passed on to consumers only they would gaslight us that the taxes would come out of business profits.
Sure shootin', I voted for Harris and we have ginormous taxes on businesses (the tariffs) that will be passed on to consumers, only we are assured they will come out of business profits.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
On the other hand, why is a certification body (likely with a lot of overhead) actually needed?
Consumers these days are far more conscious of energy use, and information spreads much more quickly. Reviews will test the energy consumptions of products, and products which are inefficient will lose sales as a result.
Detailed reviews are a lot more useful than some logo sticker on the packaging.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
If the end of Energy Star means that appliances will have lifetimes equivalent to appliances built before that program, then I'm all for it. An appliance that saves 3% on energy costs but fails unrepairably as soon as the warranty expires and has to be replaced doesn't save anything at all.
Re: (Score:2)
You have to start wondering if Trump even knows what the purpose of government is for?
Trump's administration promises reduced energy costs yet tries to kill a program that directly reduces energy costs. You have to wonder what behind closed doors was discussed that prompted this line of action. Who got in his ear and what agenda was behind it.
OR
Was it that he just didn't like the stickers on appliances?
Trump believes the purpose of government is to funnel all available resources in the entire country into the hands and pockets of the uber rich, while decimating the rest of the population into poverty. Maybe he wouldn't be able to articulate it that way, but sometimes you have to analyze a person's actions to understand their actual mindset, and Musk's slip of, "The American people need to suffer," was the call-sign that we are entering a period where the American government under Donald Trump is completel
Re:What is the purpose of Government? (Score:5, Informative)
Can't appliance manufacturers make energy-efficient appliances without a government program?
It is possible that after all these years consumers have been educated in how to select energy-efficient appliances, isn't it?
And... who's going to verify/certify/ensure that those appliances are actually as energy efficient as claimed? Especially w/o getting into the Xkcd "now we have 15 standards" thing ...
From ENERGY STAR Certification [energystar.gov]:
ENERGY STAR Certification
The energy performance behind every ENERGY STAR label is independently verified, whether on a product, a home, a building, or a manufacturing plant. By safeguarding the integrity of ENERGY STAR, EPA can support the thriving private market that has been built around its performance-based definitions of leadership in energy efficiency. Learn more about how EPA works to ensure that consumers and businesses can trust the ENERGY STAR label.
How Products Earn the ENERGY STAR
To earn the ENERGY STAR label for products, manufacturers are required to sign a formal agreement with EPA and products must be third-party certified against strict performance requirements. Third-party certification ensures products are properly tested and reviewed prior to being labeled. It also eliminates the competitive advantage associated with possible cheating and preserves the label’s value in the marketplace.
Re:What is the purpose of Government? (Score:5, Insightful)
Consumer Reports?
Who says they are the only candidate? The government has the NHTSA, while the private sector has the more rigorous IIHS. UL has done this kind
Speaking of UL... you realize that they are one of those who does the testing under the EngeryStar program, right? ex: https://www.ul.com/services/en... [ul.com]
If the program goes away tomorrow, no doubt they'd simply close their doors and never test energy efficiency again.
Re:What is the purpose of Government? (Score:4, Insightful)
Energy Star is /already/ being handled through private third parties for certification, the regulations only control "what" they certify - and there is an insane overhead in taxes for that small part.
Perfect example; many/most electronics sold in the US are certified through UL for safety, which is private and works just fine. And the world didn't end.
Seriously, there are a lot of things to complain about - but pick things that make sense. I'd much rather my tax money go towards useful things.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
and there is an insane overhead in taxes for that small part.
Where? The summary says it's $32 million a year. That's minuscule for something that covers such a wide variety of products.
Re: (Score:2)
That was certainly a load of words generated by AI to concoct bullshit, but none of it with a basis in reality. For instance, no actual engineer would refer to a "knee-of-the-efficiency" curve, nor describe the knee OF an efficiency curve (as in, the start of 'diminishing returns' because efficiency has plateau'ed) as "steep."
Likewise, you claimed that dehumidifiers are rated at 80F and 60% relative humidity? You're Lying. [energystar.gov] The standard is 65F as of 2019. The standards page even notes that this change was
Re:What is the purpose of Government? (Score:5, Informative)
Companies exist to make money. Do you trust them? Do you take everything they say on their word? Because that is the result you get. "Buy me, I'm energy efficient and will save you money, trust me! Our device uses virtually no power at all!" - then burried in size 2 font on page 63 of the manual under the warranty statement "Power claims are made only for when the device is not in use".
Somehow that isn't as good as an independently verified certification scheme that compares all devices on an equal standard playing field.
If you don't understand this I have a bridge to sell you. Trust me it's the best bridge in the world! *ahem* 2cm wide and 3d printed *ahem*
Re: (Score:2)
What incentive would the manufacturers have to do research to reduce energy consumption of their devices without an independent authority verifying that their devices do in fact consume less energy? It's cheaper to just make something that runs, period.
Re: What is the purpose of Government? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, we already know you want to burn everything down, you called yourself Pentium.
Just think! (Score:2)
Just think of all the money they'll save not having to print all those Energy Star stickers. Winning!
Companies will still use it (Score:2)
This is the same with car companies and more fuel efficient cars. President Turd tried to get car companies to abandon fuel efficiency efforts. But it turns out that consumers still want it regardless of want some orange turd says. So companies will continue making more efficient utilities.
Re: (Score:3)
This is the same with car companies and more fuel efficient cars. President Turd tried to get car companies to abandon fuel efficiency efforts. But it turns out that consumers still want it regardless of want some orange turd says. So companies will continue making more efficient utilities.
Well, at least they'll continue marketing their devices as energy-efficient. They will probably quickly discover, however, that it's a lot cheaper and easier to put outstanding energy efficiency figures on the box and in the marketing materials than it is to actually make the devices efficient. Truth in advertising laws mean they probably can't just flat out lie about efficiency (well, assuming Trump doesn't shut down the FTC department tasked with enforcing truth in advertising laws -- or hasn't already d
New plan ... problem solved. (Score:2)
Switch to Elon's method on X where people just pay for the Energy Star rating they want.
Hate say I we told you so... (Score:2)
> "Eliminating the Energy Star program would
> directly contradict this administration's promise to
> reduce household energy costs"
How do you tell when a MAGAt is lying? You know because its mouth is moving. Or at anyone with even a porous bullshit filter does. I can quantify what MAGA's bullshit has cost me just by opening up Quicken. I know Quicken can be something oi a beast. But do none of those people monitor their 401ks and IRAs? I'm starting to think half the country isn't even competent t
Meanwhile in Europe (Score:2)
More and more goods are getting energy ratings. Because it is an effective way to motivate manufacturers to make efficient products that appeal to more prospective customers.
Ahh memories (Score:2)
I'm surprised this is still a thing.
I fondly recall the cool "Energy Star" logo displayed by my 486 and later motherboards when booting. Nice and yellow on my CRT. Later I read that it was a useless program because it was just a self certified thing, like the CE mark is here in the UK.
bullshit (Score:2, Interesting)
Steve Milloy, hired by the DoE decades ago to debunk the EPA's bullshit:
No, EPA's Energy Star program has not saved consumers $500 billion since 1992:
1. The $500 billion is just a bureaucratic fantasy guesstimate based on zero real-world/actual use data.
2. The reality is that energy efficiency standards -- like gas mileage standards -- have been cynically used to raise product costs and to advance the green agenda, with no actual benefit to consumers.
3. Throw in the higher energy costs caused by the climate
Trump's No One After Us Approach (Score:2)
Ze problem (Score:3)
The problem with energy star was not that it rated energy efficiency. The problem is that it ONLY rated energy efficiency. So, for example, your clothes washer is super efficient on its most efficient cycle, except (a) it doesn't get your clothes clean, and (b) it takes 6 hours to complete. So, of course, you don't use the most efficient cycle if you can avoid it.
Furthermore, the savings per year numbers were based on unit energy costs that did not apply in the largest markets, such as California. There was no attempt to do a cost-benefit analysis on recurring vs initial costs.
Yes, I still want to know efficiency, but the energystar program was not useful.
Re:An opportunity for a private certification (Score:5, Insightful)
Do we need a government certification on efficiency? Could not some private entity develop their own certifications to take the place of Energy Star?
Yeah that firm will be owned by GE, Samsung, LG.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah that firm will be owned by GE, Samsung, LG.
Good Housekeeping, Consumer Reports, Underwriters Laboratory ...
Re:An opportunity for a private certification (Score:4, Interesting)
UL would be the most likely candidate. In dealing with UL Certifications in the past, it is mostly a money grab, so it would be right down their alley to offer it.
I'm so happy for the EnergyStar ratings on ceiling fans. Without it, we would never have brushless DC motors on them. My ~10-year old ceiling fans drew 180W on high speed; my new ones draw 15W with better motors and more aerodynamic blades, moving a lot more air in the process. Certification programs like Energystar really do help make better products possible.
Re:An opportunity for a private certification (Score:5, Insightful)
Could not some private entity develop their own certifications to take the place of Energy Star?
Sure, they could. But why would they? Shit like that costs money. Businesses will NEVER spend money on something that doesn't directly increase the bottom line, unless it's government mandated.
The point of Energy Star was to educate people on how more efficient appliances will save money long term even if there is a higher upfront cost.
The point of energy star was to force the manufacturers to compete based on energy efficiency, along with price and features, by forcing them to publish how expensive their equipment was to run.
Not every problem needs a government solution.
Agreed. Also, not every problem will be solved by unadulterated capitalism.
We don't need some federal government office to maintain this system, it will sustain itself now.
Mhm. I'm SURE companies will continue to use something like the energy guide stickers purely out of their desire to educate consumers on how awesome their products are. Not a chance those yellow tags with actual regulated and comparable numbers on them won't be replace by giant "Now costs 10,000% less to operate*" *when compared to an Abrams tank that has been modified to run on Chanel Number 5." type marketing bullshit.
A fair question (Score:2)
Not sure why the parent is modded "Troll"; it's the most substantive comment so far.
There are good examples of organizations that provide their seal of approval as an aid to consumer purchasing: UL, IIHS, OU.
It would have been nice if the administration proposed a "spinoff" of Energy Star instead of trying to kill it, but that's not their style.
Re: (Score:2)
What if there is greater profit to be had in selling you a crappy quality, crappy efficiency product?
Re: (Score:3)
'Market' solutions tend to absolutely require access to quality information. In its absence people can't really make decisions that align with their interests; and a lot of low-value or unequal party transactions make it either economically ir
Re:Are there any that are not "Energy Star" (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't remember seeing any that did not have that Certified sticker.
That's good. It means that most appliance manufacturers were encouraged to get off their asses and design products that were at least somewhat more efficient.
Re:Are there any that are not "Energy Star" (Score:4, Insightful)
It wasn't just the symbol, to get the star you also have give the energy use numbers for the consumer as well so they can compare. It was a good idea, make them compete on something everyone benefits from.
Re:Are there any that are not "Energy Star" (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Are there any that are not "Energy Star" (Score:2)
Well, um.
I don't think they should dismantle the program, but I recall when an audit investigation got an Energy-Star label for a "Gasoline-Powered Alarm Clock".
https://gizmodo.com/a-fake-gas... [gizmodo.com]
Hope they've actually improved things since then.
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah it's linked in there that they passed some new rules, don't know if it worked for the case of how those got through, I am sure the GAO had recommended changes.
However I do like this story for the fact that audit was done by the GAO, which is and has been the actual "efficiency department" and this is a nice example of how it's supposed to work. Frankly I wish more rules and laws would go through a more openly iterative process like this.
Re: (Score:2)
energy star matters for large appliances that use a lot of energy or hot water
Re: (Score:2)
I know you're just trolling man, but I'll give you some air time because those child-sized toilets are a real annoyance to me too. Energy Star however, has never once caused me problems that couldn't be explained by basic user error, and trivial to overcome at that. I'm convinced that if it hadn't been government-mandated decades ago we'd be well on our way to commodity monitors burning 1000W with absolutely no gain in performance over current models, except possibly if you count extra radiation.
Re: (Score:2)
Hey! I was on topic! Fuck you guys.
Re: (Score:2)
I know you're just trolling man
Toilet flush standards are set by the DOE, whereas Energy Star is managed by the EPA. The line does get a bit fuzzy though, as the DOE can and does set standards for Energy Star. In that vein, it's a little bit of a stretch to call the OP's complaint about low-flush toilets trolling, other than the tone it was written in seems less then sincere.
That being said, out of all the government efficiency standards that have come with a direct hit to my standard of living, the toilet one is certainly up there. A
And with those Ace Hardware parts (Score:2)
your toilet is using vast amounts of water, you insensitive environmental scofflaw!
Re: (Score:2)
your toilet is using vast amounts of water, you insensitive environmental scofflaw!
Here's the neat thing, though - it actually doesn't! Pressure-assisted toilets use the water line pressure to compress air, and through some quirk of plumbing voodoo are then able to produce a much more powerful flush than gravity-fed toilets. The downsides are, however:
It's more expensive.
It's loud.
It has specialized parts that make it temperamental if your water quality isn't great.
They generally aren't popular for residential use because of the cost, and aren't based on the same design that commercial
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Skill issue, don't buy the cheapest commode at Home Depot and expect it to do the job of a real shitter's toilet.
Toto Drake [totousa.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Who says we don't manufacture anything eh? I will proudly crap in my Georgia made, Japanese designed premium crap receptacle. Brings a tear to my every time.
Re: (Score:2)
I will proudly crap in my Georgia made, Japanese designed premium crap receptacle. Brings a tear to my every time.
Try adding more fiber to your diet.
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Re: (Score:2)
Bidets don't decrease the size of your shits, they just clean your ass. Want to reduce the size? Take more frequent poops.
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Re: (Score:2)
All the toilet clogs I've ever experienced were due to TP. Indeed the pillowy soft 4-ply is a complete no go with my toilets bidet or not.
This is precisely why I went with a pressure-assist toilet two-and-a-half decades ago. Screw compromising on TP softness because my toilet can't handle it - that's a literal pain in the ass!
Something disgusting about those things (Score:2)
Isn't there something kind of disgusting about actually sitting down in what is a toilet bowl?
Re: (Score:2)
Water used or "wasted" from toilets is basically bullshit. A VERY VERY VERY tiny piece of the water usage pie. Want to know what's the largest piece? AGRICULTURE. They absolutely HATE to upgrade to more water conserving methods of farming, because it costs them lots of money. So yeah... if we really wanted to make an impact, we'd demand that changes...
And who ends up paying (Score:2)
for the water-conserving farming tech?
Re: (Score:2)
What is the Budget for this operation? I saw the supposed return, but without knowing what it cost how do you think it over?
Re:What will his poor voters do? (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
And you don't have any idea why. With an ROI of over 3000, it is a phenomenal investment. It's just reflexive smashing things up at this point.
Re: What will his poor voters do? (Score:2)
Explain why this program with orders of magnitude of ROI should be ended without appealing to religion.
Re: (Score:2)
I still think the program should be ended.
Why? You now know that the ROI is. It's pretty easy to show the value of it, what is the reason for ending it?
With the dismantling of energy standards, poor people will have to pay even more for electricity. mmmm Why?
[Emphasis mine] Because currently energy consuming devices are forced to compete on price, features, AND energy efficiency. The "This unit will cost $X per year to run" sticker is mandated to be posted front-and-center, almost forcing the purchaser to make an active decision if the $Y savings on the purchase cost is worth $X addition it will cost them to run it.
Without a government mandate there
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Because you're the typical MAGA that has no understanding of the world around him
This part is $20 cheaper. It will make the product $20 cheaper.
It's also less efficient and will cost the consumer who buys the product $100 extra per year in electricity costs.
The consumer knows none of this but the $20 lower price
Yes most consumers will be as ignorant as the MAGAs who are trying to eliminate this common sense energy star system.
Re:What will his poor voters do? (Score:5, Insightful)
I suspect they will not revert to the 30 year-old designs
No shit.
Or will manufacturers simply keep making the same energy-efficient appliances they have been for the last few years?
Of course they will. Then the next model will be some small percentage cheaper to build because energy efficiency is no longer a priority. And since the average idiot (myself included) doesn't have the foggiest clue what the annual energy savings of a 20 SEER AC unit vs a 14 SEER unit, and all they will see (since the manufacturers aren't going to put the energy guide stickers on there anymore) is that the 20 SEER unit is $X more expensive, they are going to pick the less energy efficiency one. Give it 3 or 4 product cycles and you won't even be able to buy the more efficient option anymore.
Re: (Score:2)
So when the program ends, manufacturers will dig out their early 1990's appliance designs and energy use will sky rocket?
Yes if it will save them 10 cents on an air conditioner.
Re: (Score:3)
I suspect they will not revert to the 30 year-old designs...
Yeah, why revert to 30-year-old energy wasting designs when you can use all-new energy wasting designs?
And if you think this isn't possible, I'd recommend watching this Technology Connections video [youtube.com] where he rants for a little over a half hour about cheap novelty mini-fridges. Or I'll save you from watching all that snarky talking head sarcasm and spoil it: those fridges are super cheap to manufacture, but waste mind-boggling amounts of electricity.
Energy efficiency standards serve a purpose, because the av
Re:What will his poor voters do? (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no rationale behind any of this nonsense.
Sure there is. Trump has a well documented hard-on for low-flow shower heads for some fuckin reason. And if I were to make an educated guess based on his physique and known diet? He's probably blown up toilet a time or two and assumed the problem was with the energy-star guidance on water usage.
Re: (Score:2)
They suck. A lot. You barely get any water out of them. It takes two or three times as long to take a simple freaking shower because there's so little water coming out.
Ironically, Trump's stupid trade war is making the fix for these shitty showerheads even more expensive. That fix being - just buy one from a Chinese manufacturer who doesn't care about efficiency compliance, from Amazon.
Re: (Score:2)
Just drill small holes into your existing one or simply make the existing nano-scale hole bigger. Problem solved if you are on a budget.
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Just drill small holes into your existing one or simply make the existing nano-scale hole bigger. Problem solved if you are on a budget.
Most showerheads have a restrictor at the inlet of the fixture, the little spray nozzles usually aren't the issue. Sometimes the restrictor can be removed or modified without too much effort. Course, if you've gotta take the showerhead off anyway, may as well just replace it. They can get pretty disgusting in a few years anyway.
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With the dismantling of energy standards, poor people will have to pay even more for electricity.
Why will the elimination of the Energy Star program make electricity more expensive? Will it make their appliances less efficient?
Energy Star started in 1992, haven't consumers been educated about what to look for when buying appliances?
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Why will the elimination of the Energy Star program make electricity more expensive? Will it make their appliances less efficient?
Yes, that's what it will do, make their new appliances less efficient by enabling device manufacturers to quote misleading energy consumption figures. Energy Star doesn't make the appliances more efficient, but it provides trustworthy assertions about appliance energy efficiency, based on careful testing.
Energy Star started in 1992, haven't consumers been educated about what to look for when buying appliances?
Absolutely. They've been educated to look for the Energy Star efficiency ratings.
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His poor voters will continue to fuck themselves, indirectly. Doesn't the Republican ideology state that the poor are doing it to themselves? Here we have a clear connection for some of them.
Re: What will his poor voters do? (Score:2)
Re:ahh energy star (Score:5, Insightful)
Most appliances don't have an option to disable such. Tell us, how are you disabling it on your refrigerator, washing machine, dishwasher, TV, video game console, and light bulbs?
Computers are about the only thing that allows easy disabling of such.
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That's not the only way ENERGY STAR is implemented. My chest freezer is compliant. It has no buttons. All you can do it plug it in. How do you turn off the ENERGY STAR functionality?
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Re:ahh energy star (Score:4, Informative)
You have never seen "eco mode" as an option on anything with...options?
Eco mode isn't what is measured with Energy Star ratings. They are standardised on a component level. E.g. measuring the power consumption of a backlight of your monitor when it is producing 200 nits and displaying a white screen, or measuring the power consumption of your washing machine while spinning at 1400rpm.
How you use your device or even the options provided for you to use your device in different ways has no impact on the energy star rating.
Re:ahh energy star (Score:4, Informative)
The energy star rating is based on one specific set of cycle settings. Don't use that setting. Done.
The energy star rating is based on how a machine runs it's motor, water, and heating settings across a standardised test. There is no "energy star" specific cycle. The comparison is made under standard conditions and vary across all cycles.
And even if it were cycle dependent, people use cycles depending on their cloths, not some desire to waste money. Your argument makes no sense what so ever.
Did AI write your post or was it just general MAGA ignorance?
You could learn from him. Even TruthGPT could come up with something more intelligent than you just wrote.
Re:The Energy Star program has NOT... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm very confused by your comment.
From what I understand, the Energy Star program is supposed to make the American people more efficient with their use of energy.
So why are you ranting about the Energy Star program creating no new energy? Is this some kind of strawman argument? Why do you feel the need to mention Marxism?
Isn't educating people on the efficiency of their appliances are good thing? How did you actually manage to twist this into something negative?!
As far as I know, people aren't forced to buy energy efficient appliances. They're only informed about the efficiency of the products they're interested in. And yet, this is a highly deceitful scam? My mind is spinning with this spin.
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Energy ratings are about making products which are more energy efficient. Energy is a finite resource. Energy costs money to make and causes pollution. So efficiency is a good thing especially in aggregate. It's not about "energy rationing" or "Marxist" but paranoid conspiracy dribble seems to par for the course in your posts.