M4 Mac Mini To Become Apple's Smallest Ever Computer With Complete Redesign (macrumors.com) 110
According to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman (paywalled), Apple plans to launch a completely redesigned Mac mini with M4 and M4 Pro chips later this year. MacRumors reports: The new Mac mini will be the first major design change to the machine since 2010, making it Apple's smallest ever desktop computer. The new Mac mini will apparently approach the size of an Apple TV, but it may be slightly taller than the current model, which is 1.4 inches high. It will continue to feature an aluminum shell. Individuals working on the new device apparently say that it is "essentially an iPad Pro in a small box."
Apple is said to have tested Mac mini models with at least three USB-C ports on the back, as well as an area for the power cable and an HDMI port. There will continue to be two versions of the Mac mini: one with the standard M4 chip, similar to the iPad Pro, and one with an M4 Pro chip. The base model is set to begin shipping from suppliers this month ahead of release later in the year, while the high-end model will not be ready until October.
Apple is said to have tested Mac mini models with at least three USB-C ports on the back, as well as an area for the power cable and an HDMI port. There will continue to be two versions of the Mac mini: one with the standard M4 chip, similar to the iPad Pro, and one with an M4 Pro chip. The base model is set to begin shipping from suppliers this month ahead of release later in the year, while the high-end model will not be ready until October.
Too small? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is there a point where a desktop computer gets too small? I recently had a Mac mini and thought it could have used a few more ports, not fewer.
I suppose this is not an unexpected point to reach, when computers are now at the point of being appliances, where you get it set up off the shelf and never customize or expand it, like a toaster oven.
Re:Too small? (Score:5, Funny)
You don't understand the genius of Steve Jobs. Make it thinner. Make it smaller. NO BUTTONS. NO PORTS. NO CABLES. Infinite efficiency by including no processor or ram. Just a solid thin sheet of aluminum foil. It is perfection.
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Plus it is more shiny so you can see yourself in it! good for every body with some vanity.
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Plus it is more shiny so you can see yourself in it! good for every body with some vanity.
Vanity - So the typical Mac user, right?
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Go to a math or physics conference sometime, all you see are Macs. Yup, that's some vain crowd you are pointing out there. People do not buy Macs out of vanity, a good portion buy them out of habit, another portion buys them because the interface and software are slick (me), another portion buy they because MS crap makes them puke (me again), another portion buys them because they do not have time to wile away pfutzing with Linux, and another because they pair well with their iPhones. Vanity does not enter
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Doesn't Linus own a Mac?
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Doesn't Linus own a Mac?
I think his Daily Driver for Dev Work is an M1 MacBook Air.
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Vanity hasn't been a significant factor in Apple purchases and never has.
Were Apples largely the "upper middle class" computer for decades? Yeah, they were a lot more expensive than PCs back in the day; they still are more expensive than the entry-level PCs. In this case, you are getting a lot more than you pay for.
I bought my own first mac about 3 years ago after the M1 Air came out (Most amazing hardware I've ever had. ), and have used them professionally since 2018. Before that, I was a die hard linux us
Re: Too small? (Score:2)
Now, explain to me need for all those different colors without implying the buyers are vain.
Oh, and when did attendees of college Physics lectures become average users?
I wonder how much of this has to do with their university bookstore only carrying Apple computers and the ability to put the purchase on your student loan balance?
Re: Too small? (Score:2)
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Do you seriously think repeating 40 year old Apple jokes is humorous?
That's all he's got.
That, and the Automatic Gainsaying.
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I love the Apple Glove...it's so bad.
[ref [youtube.com]]
Re:Too small? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe the problem is the company is just extrapolating from that point in a straight line, like a plane on autopilot with a sleeping pilot.
Re:Too small? (Score:4, Informative)
The guy died 13 years ago.
Maybe the problem is the company is just extrapolating from that point in a straight line, like a plane on autopilot with a sleeping pilot.
The real problem wasn't Jobs, it was Ive. He was the artist and the infamous minimalist. Jobs always focused on function, it was Ive that pushed the form, and he only left Apple 5 years ago which is too short of a time to change a design culture.
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Jobs as a CEO did wonders, and he created an Apple that did well. It was the stuff people did after he was gone which have hurt Apple. Things like dropping the Time Capsule (which could be a cash cow for Apple if it were used as a local eGPU server), and dropping things like the Mac Pro, which was one thing that gave Macs its ascendency, especially in colleges.
Ive did a lot of design, but the form-over-function mentality caused a lot of issues. I'd say the MacBook that had one USB port was the culminatio
Re:Too small? (Score:5, Insightful)
Welcome to 2024. Was your time in cryo pleasant? Some quick updates: Steve passed away in 2011. Ever since, Apple has been trying to continue his legacy by doing what he did without understanding why he did it, like a painter who keeps using the same colour because his master was famous for his brilliant use of red. You know, without understanding that the master didn't paint all red paintings...
Perfection in design is to take things away until the essential is left. Simple, but not too simple. Apple was among the first to move to USB, doing away with having 10 different ports on your computer, most of them good for exactly one thing. That is simplification done right.
Sadly, what we're seing now is simplification gone too far.
The Mac Mini already was a good size. It wasn't size on which it could be improved. Hey Apple, if you're reading this, here's what would be a REAL improvement: Have a small opening section like the old iMac had where users can upgrade the memory banks. Bonus points if there's also a slot for the SSD drive so that becomes exchangeable.
Heck, imagine if everything important was on the SSD and that was in a small case, and people could essentially carry their entire computer from one Mac Mini to the other by pulling out the SSD. That'd revolutionize home working and stuff.
Just an idea. Just to show that there are other areas of innovation besides size.
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> Heck, imagine if everything important was on the SSD and that was in a small case, and people could essentially carry their entire computer from one Mac Mini to the other by pulling out the SSD. That'd revolutionize home working and stuff.
Why bother with an SSD when you can use an even smaller, thinner USB stick ? Possibly in a nice aluminium enclosure :) ~
I've got Ventoy installed on a 512Gb USB stick with a choice of Linux ISOs to boot from, plus an area for storing data files.. Plug it into any old
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Why bother with an SSD when you can use an even smaller, thinner USB stick ?
Because USB sticks with sizes comparable to hard drives are still fairly expensive. I'm talking 1 TB and up. Also, most SSDs have significantly better performance than most USB sticks.
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SSDs in a USB enclosure is now a thing.
https://www.owc.com/solutions/... [owc.com]
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There are a few reasons why one wants a SSD that isn't on a USB stick profile. The main one is weight/torque on the physical port, which doesn't take much to break the port. Another is cooling. USB drives can get pretty hot, and the stick profile doesn't really have the surface area as a larger drive.
In general, not many true SSDs are on a USB stick profile. There are a few, but most are flash drives with far fewer write cycles available, as opposed to a SSD that has at least 10% of pages reserved and n
Re: Too small? (Score:2)
Heck, imagine if everything important was on the SSD and that was in a small case, and people could essentially carry their entire computer from one Mac Mini to the other by pulling out the SSD. That'd revolutionize home working and stuff.
Just an idea. Just to show that there are other areas of innovation besides size.
You might want to look into Windows-To-Go (where your entire software ecosystem, OS, Apps, and data are stored on a USB Flashdrive on your keychain) and maybe Windows Terminal Server (where users logged into thin clients w/ smart cards and accessed their files over the network).
Windows-To-Go: https://learn.microsoft.com/en... [microsoft.com]
Windows Terminal Server: https://youtu.be/ULs8TW4zzUE?s... [youtu.be]
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If only they could get the gnome devs involved. Then the entire UI could be reduced a single stunningly beautiful button, placed over a simply magnificent, lustrous desktop wallpaper, which simply said "Power Off".
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You don't understand the genius of Steve Jobs. Make it thinner. Make it smaller. NO BUTTONS. NO PORTS. NO CABLES. Infinite efficiency by including no processor or ram. Just a solid thin sheet of aluminum foil. It is perfection.
SNL nailed this in a skit years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re: Too small? (Score:2)
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Apple Introduces Revolutionary New Laptop With No Keyboard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re:Too small? (Score:4, Informative)
As someone who uses a few NUCs for my home servers and desktop, smaller than a NUC but with the most essential ports (USB-C, Ethernet), I would be fine with it. I hook up a dock when I need a monitor and USB-A ports generally. The "desktop" is mounted in a wire management system below the desktop, so a single USB-C cablet between the computer and desk is great.
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I have one of the earlier generation celery NUCs that used to be my Kodi media server back when I had a bit smaller collection of media. It also has the distinction of being one of the only things I've ever bought with cryptocurrency (about half a Bitcoin, which makes it the most heavily depreciated computer I still own). Nowadays, I use a Deskmini and a bunch of spinning rust in external USB 3.0 enclosures. The funny thing is, the drives take up more space than the computer itself.
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Might as well use a raspberry pi
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Not nearly powerful enough. I run 4VMs each on the "servers", and for the desktop I run CAD and accounting software which chokes on an i3.
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> Is there a point where a desktop computer gets too small?
I have an n100 mini pc that is lifted off the desk by a coiled HDMI cable. It's awkward but at $135 [amzn.to] for a daily driver I don't complain!
I turn on the 12-core Ryzen now only when I need a lot of CPU or CUDA.
Coolness is it can hang off the same monitor with a $30 KVM switch. Syncthing keeps files in order. Just keep it clamped down!
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I have an n100 mini pc that is lifted off the desk by a coiled HDMI cable.
Yeah, exactly. As anybody who has ever tried to use a Raspberry Pi for much of anything without sufficient application of gaff tape knows, tiny, light desktop computers are an absolute pain in the a**.
I'm hoping Apple realizes just how stupid this is, and that they don't actually build something like that for use as a desktop computer, but rather as a cheap tool for hobby projects or similar.
I wouldn't mind the Mac Mini getting *slightly* smaller, but anything the size of an Apple TV is going to be way too
Re: Too small? (Score:2)
I donâ(TM)t really view a Mac Mini is a desktop computer. We have stacks of them in our build and test farms; itâ(TM)s the best form factor of any Apple product for that kind of workload. Theyâ(TM)re also small enough that they can be tucked out of sight somewhere or hidden in a mounting bracket behind a TV/monitor.
My Apple TV unit - somewhere out of sight, maybe sticking up in the air on the end of a stiff Cat 6a cable. I donâ(TM)t need to see it and the remote uses BT.
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I donâ(TM)t really view a Mac Mini is a desktop computer. We have stacks of them in our build and test farms; itâ(TM)s the best form factor of any Apple product for that kind of workload. Theyâ(TM)re also small enough that they can be tucked out of sight somewhere or hidden in a mounting bracket behind a TV/monitor.
True. I have one as a server, and I've built custom mounting plates to mount the old ones inside an enclosure behind a monitor with a metal push rod on the power button. Where I work, I think they use entire rooms full of them as build and test farms. For most of those purposes, you could build a stripped-down version with nothing more than a single USB-C port for bringup (through a hub) and an Ethernet port or two. But that wouldn't be usable for normal end-user applications, so I'd argue that it would
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I'm still not even over the whole "let's put an ugly ass notch in the display because we can't just make the whole phone a few mm bigger" thing that Apple did with the iPhone design. The idea that a desktop computer should be space constrained is even more absurd. Hell, as it is you can buy generic Bluetooth speakers at Five Below that are larger than the current gen Mac mini, and the only thing those things do in exchange for the space they occupy is reproduce music poorly.
Think of a desktop as a dock ,,, (Score:2)
Personally I'd have the phone run iOS when undocked, macOS when docked. No universal OS that half-asses both computer and mobile modes.
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And think how convenient that will be when your phone gets stolen/lost.
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On iOS, this is a fairly addressable problem, especially when the next OS rev beings in "official" PIN protection to sets of apps. One can use Shortcuts for PIN protection right now, but it is a hack.
You are not the only one concerned. is concerned as well. However, this should be addressed in the next major rev of iOS. [9to5mac.com]
I do think it would be nice if some apps would need both FaceID/TouchID as well as a PIN to open, with a duress PIN that, if entered, gives an error and quietly ensures that no PINs will
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Intel tried that with a "portable server" prototype, around 10-15 years ago. It was a form factor a little big bigger than an average phone, about 1 centimeter thick, and had storage, computer power and such. It was intended to be tossed in a docking station to be used, be it a laptop form factor or a desktop. It didn't seem to go over well.
Android phones have tried this, on and off. The Motorola Atrix comes to mind, and the Atrix 2. It was an awesome concept of being able to have a Linux distribution
Re: Too small? (Score:2)
Re:Too small? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is there a point where a desktop computer gets too small? I recently had a Mac mini and thought it could have used a few more ports, not fewer.
You're phrasing this like it's the physical size of your Mac Mini that limited the number of ports. The real issue is Apple doesn't want to give you front-mounted ports and effect the aesthetics of their current design. The Mac Studio gives you two USB-C and a SD card slot on the front but the back is mesh vent for the top 2/3rds, meanwhile Apple removed the SD Card slot from the Mini in the 2018 update [cnet.com]. There's plenty of room for ports if Apple would rid themselves of the ghost of Jony Ive.
Heat (Score:2)
Right now they seem like toys to me. It's frustrating because my kid's going to grade school soon and they want one but it's looking like their software will run like crap on them...
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"...my kid's going to grade school soon and they want one but it's looking like their software will run like crap on them..."
LOL We're all really concerned for your grade school child! How will they survive without a supercomputer in kindergarten?
Mac G4 Cube, Mac Pro Cylinder, but smaller (Score:2)
Think of the old Mac G4 cube, or the more recent cylinder form factor Mac Pro, but smaller.
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why are you commenting on this site as a non-power user?? you should go back to reddit.
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There seem to be major heating issues with the m2 and m3 MacBook Airs. To the point where putting them in multi mon mode by closing the lid cuts the performance in half. It's nuts.
They're really not designed for heavy use of multiple displays. The passive cooling and throttling is the most critical difference between an Air and a Pro. The Air gets slower while the Pro gets louder. That said, having the Air be a little thicker would probably make that compromise less painful for you. :-)
As others have replied, you can safely assume a fan on a Mac Mini. That said, smaller enclosures are more thermally constrained, and the idea of sticking even Apple's CPUs inside something the size
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This seems to be a matter of design, unfortunately. MBAs seem to be designed to give max CPU for a short period of time, say while browsing the web or playing a game. If one is doing a long operation on one like a render, it will reach thermal limits and throttle.
For many MBA users, this isn't an issue, especially the larger 15" models where there is more case for heat dissipation. However, this is definitely something if one us using multiple monitors.
The solution? A MBP and active cooling. Sometimes
Re: Heat (Score:2)
I suspect sealed, thin Mac's 'breathe' thru the keyboard, and closing the lid limits airflow.
Kinda like saying 'my Mac mini overheats and throttles performance when I stuff it in a desk drawer...'
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Is there a point where a desktop computer gets too small? I recently had a Mac mini and thought it could have used a few more ports, not fewer.
I suppose this is not an unexpected point to reach, when computers are now at the point of being appliances, where you get it set up off the shelf and never customize or expand it, like a toaster oven.
All depends on your ultimate needs for that appliance, which ranges from $499 to $4999 in this case. Seems the only thing that isn’t all that “mini” is the price.
If the hardware meets the need, a loaded Mac mini is a hell of a lot more portable and power friendly that a Mac Pro chassis.
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I would prefer a mac mini that is the size of an iphone "Max" but has 4 USB-A and 8 TB ports.
Consider how much the MacMini is empty, it only makes sense.
Re: Too small? (Score:2)
I want a Mac mini the size/shape of the iPad Pro Max with a built-in display, and almost all connections are either through the USB-C connector or WiFi/bluetooth...
Too small Power, RJ-45, Thunderbolt 4, 2x USB-C (Score:2)
Is there a point where a desktop computer gets too small?
When it doesn't have:
(1) A power connector/port.
(2) 10 Gigabit Ethernet (RJ-45) port.
(3) A Thunderbolt 4 port where I can daisy chain a monitor and an external RAID.
(4) A USB-C 3.2 Gen 2x2 port of an external SSD.
(5) A USB-C 3.2 Gen 2x2 port I can plug a HUB into.
(6) Bluetooth for Keyboard, mouse, and headphones.
Kind of a MacBook Pro without a display, 3.5mm headphone jack, HDMI and SDXC. The latter 3 being nice to haves rather than must haves, going with minimalistic.
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I would assert that at least two TB 4/USB C ports should be present, as two monitors are almost a given these days with most desktops. This is in addition to a USB A port for the keyboard and a USB A port for the HID device. Yes, Bluetooth can work, but a lot of people still use wired items, and a keyboard and mouse should be directly connected if possible.
If I could have the ideal, it would be two USB-A ports for the HID devices, four TB4/USB-C/DP ports, built in power supply (120/240 volts), two HDMI po
Re: Too small Power, RJ-45, Thunderbolt 4, 2x USB- (Score:2)
[1]: If the Ethernet ports are too thick, one can always use an XJack style pop-out connector
For the love of god, NO! Put an Xjack connector on an Apple product and the ghost of Steve Jobs will rise up out of the grave and haunt you!
For those too young to remember what an xjack is:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]
They are only slightly more reliable than taping an RJ45 plus with a missing tab in an Ethernet port!
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Is there a point where a desktop computer gets too small? I recently had a Mac mini and thought it could have used a few more ports, not fewer.
I guess it's a question of where you put your ports and how much flexibility you need on the go. I used to lament the lack of ports until modern docking stations became a thing. If I were to go down this route I'd probably monitor mount my mac-mini behind the screen and have only a thunderbolt docking station visible on my desk to provide any needed ports.
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Apple's been shipping with minimal port configs since the late '90s.
You want a standard load of ports and expandibility go hackintosh.
Or just build a nice linux box.
Re: Too small? (Score:2)
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I have a 2" by 2" no-name mini PC on my desk, 32 gigs of RAM, i7, 1 TB SSD. The graphics are nothing to write home about, but it can play BG3 and newer games fairly well. I don't use it for much other than gaming and running a backup program for my cloud stuff. The form factor is ok, but plugging in devices causes the little PC to wind up moved around easily.
I can sort of understand why Apple has the ability to shrink the form factor. The Mac Mini's cooling was designed around x86 CPUs with a lot of coo
Re: Too small? (Score:2)
The form of the original PowerPC Mac mini was fine, maybe not quite as tall...
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The PowerPC "cube" (IIRC) is the exact same length and width as the current Mac Mini and Mac Studio. Although the height is a bit taller to support a CD being dropped in from above. It is interesting how the same square dimensions have been around for so long.
Moving to something Apple TV sized, assuming cooling isn't compromised may not be bad, but I much rather have an older form factor and not worry about thermal issues or paucity of ports.
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Because it saves space? Stick it up on a shelf. We had some old Mac minis stuck on a shelf in the server room. Especially if you need MacOS (otherwise just create a container on a server).
Hopefully its heavier than a Raspberry Pi in a plastic case, otherwise it can tip over from the cables.
im sure (Score:1)
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"Courage tape" - for those who dare!
Re: im sure (Score:2)
A bit late to the game: we already mount them in the gap between the back of the panel and the mounting bracket.
Re: im sure (Score:2)
Look for a monitor with a flat back and hubs that are flat b
RAM starved (Score:3, Informative)
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Are you insinuating the RAM in the Apple Silicon Macs is somehow not real RAM? Configuring the machine with enough of it is a different issue, but it most definitely is real RAM, and very fast RAM at that.
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Maybe they're annoyed you have to specify the RAM when you buy and can't upgrade, or that the upgrade at time of purchase cost many times more than buying RAM for a PC.
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The annoyance is that they charge 3x the market rate for GBs of RAM, and don't even offer options with as much RAM as OP wants. Then they give you low-cost options that utilize cheaper alternatives like SSD swap. So, if you buy the version that is "reasonably priced" you end up with a small fraction of how much ram you'd like, and there is in fact *no* option that gives you as much RAM as you could buy from Newegg and load into a PC.
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The Mac Mini is not a workstation. If you need 64GB of RAM this product is simply not for you. Not every computer needs to suit every use case of every person.
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Whoever modded me down, come in and tell us why (AC posts don't undo your mod). Contribute to a discussion rather than simply not liking something. I'm keen to know why you think we need a one design fits all device rather than having different products for different use cases, and also how you think that device will look?
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And? Still isn't a workstation. I will wager you've never actually used the 64GB of RAM you put in. If you *need* that much to do what you want to do then you very likely bought the wrong computer and are shoehorning it into a problem it wasn't designed for.
Not every computer needs to suit ever use case of every person.
They are up to M4? (Score:4, Funny)
When they get to M5, I will make sure I am not wearing a red shirt.
I had a mac mini intel 17 years ago. (Score:1)
No thanks! (Score:2)
Re:No thanks! (Score:4, Interesting)
Mod up ! Having fixed RAM/disks is totally brain dead. All disks will wear out/fail. RAM is always cheaper later on so maxxing out your RAM at a later date is always a no brainer.
Apple don't make computers any more. They make disposable appliances. So they should be made to pay the full cost of recycling them when they deliberately obsolete them.
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"They make disposable appliances."
Yes, you get it. That was Job's original design fetish; computing appliances.
Apple computers are not supposed to be Swiss Army knives but rather appliances closer to iPads/phones.
I'm guesstimating there's a 30% chance that the M4 generation of computers at Apple will be the last multi-functional systems they ship, other than some developer systems (maybe). You dock your 'pad at home and at work, making use of external hardware extensions (large screens, input gear, pci expa
The most important question (Score:1)
Which version of iTunes will it come with?
Want the keyboard form factor (Score:2)
I saw a different story that said Apple was working on a computer in a keyboard... just like the classic Atari and Commodore computers!
That sounds great to me, it would be the perfect system to use with the Apple Vision Pro. And just kind of handy in general to reduce cables or the need to charge a keyboard and trackpad. That is of course assuming such a device would include a trackpad as well...
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Re: Want the keyboard form factor (Score:2)
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Raspberry Pi 400.
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Re: Want the keyboard form factor (Score:2)
My iPad should have a desktop mode (Score:2)
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FYI, I'd say run iOS when undocked, macOS when docked. Not some sort of universal OS.
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They'lll sell you 3 device. A dock where all the normal desktop stuff plugs into. One dock for home, one for work. Your phone or tablet will plug into the dock to provide CPU, RAM and Storage.
Actually not.
I have an M3 MacBook Pro and a Studio Display. I was pleasantly surprised that there is ONE USB-C cable I need to plug into my MBP and it'll not only connect the display, but also charge the notebook. And with my keyboard and mouse plugged into the Studio Display, those are then also connected to the MBP. I even have an external drive plugged into the monitor that also gets detected and auto-mounted when I plug in the notebook.
So instead of a docking station, I have one cable I plug in and it d
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Worked that way for years. Recently I purchased a Mac mini so that thunderbolt cable sometimes switches between the two.
So a docking station would be little more than a MacBook without display or CPU/RAM/Storage or a mini w
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c.f. ChromeOS tablets you can buy today.
I'm disappointed (Score:1)
I want one ... (Score:1)
... save it's not riddled with first release flaws.
Waiting on a M4 Mac Studio.... (Score:3)
What's the market? (Score:2)
But what's the market for this now? Who wants a super small mac desktop? HTPC is owned by smaller dongles, and I'm afraid the price is going to be far above an inexpensive Win box.
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Embedded systems? Personally, I'd prefer to develop embedded products that used the MacOS over Linux. Which flavor of Linux? Does the distro include all the components you want? No? Good luck building a new distro with all the proper dependencies.
There would be no need for a cross-compiler or remote debugging. The only thing missing really are hardware interfaces like I2C and GPIO.
Logistics advantage, smaller size is not for you (Score:2)
This makes a lot of sense for Apple as most Apple stores are in expensive real estate areas where space is at a premium. That said,