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China Power

China Building Two-Thirds of World's Wind and Solar Projects 123

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: The amount of wind and solar power under construction in China is now nearly twice as much as the rest of the world combined, a report has found. Research published on Thursday by Global Energy Monitor (GEM), an NGO, found that China has 180 gigawatts (GW) of utility-scale solar power under construction and 15GW of wind power. That brings the total of wind and solar power under construction to 339GW, well ahead of the 40GW under construction in the US. The researchers only looked at solar farms with a capacity of 20MW or more, which feed directly into the grid. That means that the total volume of solar power in China could be much higher, as small scale solar farms account for about 40% of China's solar capacity.

Between March 2023 and March 2024, China installed more solar than it had in the previous three years combined, and more than the rest of the world combined for 2023, the GEM analysts found. China is on track to reach 1,200GW of installed wind and solar capacity by the end of 2024, six years ahead of the government's target. "The unabated wave of construction guarantees that China will continue leading in wind and solar installation in the near future, far ahead of the rest of the world," the report said. Earlier analysis suggests that China will need to install between 1,600GW and 1,800GW of wind and solar energy by 2030 to meet its target of producing 25% of all energy from non-fossil sources. Between 2020 and 2023, only 30% of the growth in energy consumption was met by renewable sources, compared with the target of 50%.
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China Building Two-Thirds of World's Wind and Solar Projects

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  • Makes sense. China has lots of cheap labor to keep busy and maintain the national power structure. T2
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by GameboyRMH ( 1153867 )

      It also makes sense since they're increasing grid capacity with new power plants. If you have to build a new power plant, renewable is cheaper than anything else. If you have an existing power plant, whatever that happens to be is, unfortunately, cheaper than replacing it with a new renewable power plant.

      • Re:They need it (Score:5, Informative)

        by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Thursday July 11, 2024 @11:23PM (#64620209)

        If you have to build a new power plant, renewable is cheaper than anything else.

        It's especially cheaper in China, where prices for PV panels and turbines are significantly lower than anywhere else.

        I arrived in Shenzhen a week ago and was surprised that 100% of the scooters and motorcycles are electric. Two-cycle engines are banned in the city. At least half the cars and all the taxis are electric as well. The air is clean, and the sky is blue. Other Chinese cities are not as advanced as Shenzhen, but China is greening quickly.

        • Re:They need it (Score:5, Insightful)

          by sg_oneill ( 159032 ) on Thursday July 11, 2024 @11:44PM (#64620241)

          I suspect a lot of that comes from bitter memories of the Bejing olympics, where the air polution was so bad that "China has shit air" became pretty much an international talking point.

          Chinese culture has a very strong sense of the importance of reputation and showing a dignified face, so this would have been humiliating as hell, and lead to a big push to never have to endure that embarassment again.

          Plus nobody wants to breathe that shit in. All of this is good for the rest of the world. "But what about china" has long been a catch call for climate obstructionists for why our own countries shouldnt be acting. Well, exactly what about china, turns out that despite their monster sized population, they actually *are* doing plenty to get their own addiction to the carbon crackpipe under control.

          • Re:They need it (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Firethorn ( 177587 ) on Friday July 12, 2024 @12:44AM (#64620271) Homepage Journal

            Plus nobody wants to breathe that shit in. All of this is good for the rest of the world. "But what about china" has long been a catch call for climate obstructionists for why our own countries shouldnt be acting. Well, exactly what about china, turns out that despite their monster sized population, they actually *are* doing plenty to get their own addiction to the carbon crackpipe under control.

            I've said for years that once the Chinese hit a certain level of prosperity, that pollution will become a hot button topic, much like how it did in the USA and Europe. At some point, not having rivers catch fire, not having your buildings eaten by acid rain, not breathing a nasty haze that gives you headaches and stuff, becomes the next quality of life issue.
            After that, it becomes possible to really care about nature, preservation of.

            • Im late to this one so nobody will ever read it, but your comment about acid rain is something the almost never gets any press any more. Im old enough to remember entire industrial and commercial areas utterly wrecked because the US didnt require scrubbers in coal plants. The economic cost was stupidly high at the time. Acid rain due to excess sulfur from coal is absolutely no joke. Youd be absolutely amazed how much stuff is made from steel, and how quickly it dissolves if you live downwind from an unscrub
              • I remember being a kid in western australia and my grandfather who ran the old Vax mainframe at the BP petroleum refinery was always bitching about acid rain wrecking the pain on his car. Even dad didn't like visiting him in winter cos just spending a few hours in the acid rain would discolour the paint on his precious Holden Panel-van. Grandpa's car had literal holes bored into the panels from that. The other thing I remember is having pretty savage asthma as a kid and every time we'd visit them, I'd end

          • Re:They need it (Score:4, Interesting)

            by Barsteward ( 969998 ) on Friday July 12, 2024 @12:52AM (#64620277)
            I'd suspect the population is also fed up breathing in dirty polluted air and its not a lot to do with international sensibilities. The Chinese are taking the climate crisis and the move to renewables seriously as it also gives them power independence at a lower cost (sensible move for all countries).
            • Re:They need it (Score:5, Interesting)

              by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 ) on Friday July 12, 2024 @02:19AM (#64620343)
              The USA & many other western countries have rejected the "Green New Deal" strategy whereas China has run with it. China's also overtaking the west in scientific & other research. Let's see who ends up with the stronger economy.
              • western countries? You mean the US, the EU has the Europen Green Deal plan. It is a plan for energy transition, becoming carbon neutral but also about bringing strategic industries back to the EU.

                • In theory, yes. But they're not doing much about it. All we hear in the media is criticisms & push-back from vested fossil fuel interests & their lobbyists. Fossil fuel lobbies are also funding & supporting extreme-right political groups in attempt to undermine our fragile democracies & force roll-backs of what few green policies are actually being acted upon.
              • Re:They need it (Score:4, Insightful)

                by arglebargle_xiv ( 2212710 ) on Friday July 12, 2024 @06:19AM (#64620587)
                There's one telling paragraph in the writeup to explain this:

                China has experienced a boom in renewables in recent years, encouraged by strong government support. Xi Jinping, Chinaâ(TM)s president, has stressed the need for âoenew quality productive forcesâ, a slogan which signifies a desire to pivot Chinaâ(TM)s economy towards technology and innovation. Xi has said that âoenew quality productive forcesâ includes strengthening green manufacturing.

                China actually has effective leadership. Xi Jinping may be an asshole a chunk of the time, but he also displays effective leadership. Most European countries have this too to a greater or lesser degree. The US OTOH has.... oh dear God....

                • OMG! Have a just come across a self-reflective, insightful, brutally honest comment from a 'Murican on /.?!
                  • Re:They need it (Score:4, Interesting)

                    by arglebargle_xiv ( 2212710 ) on Friday July 12, 2024 @07:56AM (#64620787)
                    Nope, because I'm not American, just someone looking in from the outside in despair.
                    • Biden correctly predicted his fate in the interview after the debate. But he's already been told. Like that guy in the flood on the roof that's waiting for god to save him, turns down all other offers, but in reverse. Biden accidentally spoke the future because he's refuses to listen to others (not god (doubt he's asked), friends and family, polls) in hubris. He knows it.
              • by mspohr ( 589790 )

                China will have an advantage of lots of cheap energy while we'll still be saddled with the fossil fuel monopolies and pollution.

          • Re: "Plus nobody wants to breathe that shit in." - Please tell that to the petrolheads who constantly rev their engines & find ways to make them louder & fill urban streets with obnoxious fumes. Freedom! Yeeehah!!
            • Re: "Plus nobody wants to breathe that shit in." - Please tell that to the petrolheads who constantly rev their engines & find ways to make them louder & fill urban streets with obnoxious fumes. Freedom! Yeeehah!!

              There's a term for that vile 'sport'. It's even got a wikipedia entry, called "rolling coal". [wikipedia.org]

            • I usually tell them that I'm sorry about their penis.
              • as you should! I mean there are other issues that could lead to that particular psychosis, but I see too many damn huge pickup trucks around me that have never been even dirty in their life, and I bet you do as well.
                • as you should! I mean there are other issues that could lead to that particular psychosis, but I see too many damn huge pickup trucks around me that have never been even dirty in their life, and I bet you do as well.

                  Yes, I mean heaven forbid....anyone that might just, you know, take advantage of freedom of choice and drive a large truck because they just "like to drive them"...eh?

                  Me?

                  I'm not particularly a fan of them...I've never owned anything but 2-seater sports cars in my life, but I'm not about to gi

                  • Naw, I don't envy the penis of the pickup truck owners... I have owned BMW's in the past that cost more than a pickup does NOW, I just have some issues... what boggles my mind is my coworkers (who are the target of my discussion) seem to take great pride in buying/commuting in the largest pickup trucks they can find... never haul anything and take pains to ensure the things are 'factory fresh' for the most part (yeah, I used to know a couple of people who did in fact do stuff with their giant 4WD trucks) n
                    • Naw, I don't envy the penis of the pickup truck owners... I have owned BMW's in the past that cost more than a pickup does NOW, I just have some issues... what boggles my mind is my coworkers (who are the target of my discussion) seem to take great pride in buying/commuting in the largest pickup trucks they can find... never haul anything and take pains to ensure the things are 'factory fresh' for the most part (yeah, I used to know a couple of people who did in fact do stuff with their giant 4WD trucks) ne

                    • Yeah, I don't bother watching the pump either, what's the point? I mean, it is what it is and you're gonna buy it regardless so...

                      I had a client back in about 1982, she had just bought a Brand New Jeep... then she took it on a road trip to Florida (from Massachusetts) and when she got back she reported to me that she got 15 MPG, even though the EPA was lysing and saying that they got 18 MPG highway... Or maybe she was driving more exuberantly than one might consider 'normal' in a Jeep.

                      My younger brother

              • I usually tell them that I'm sorry about their penis.

                Considering how much come of those trucks and larger vehicles cost...perhaps YOU have "penis envy"....no?

                • I'm not the one spending large amounts of money on large and/or loud vehicles to compensate for insecurity.
                  • I'm not the one spending large amounts of money on large and/or loud vehicles to compensate for insecurity.

                    Does it ever dawn on you, that people just *might* be buying $$ cars and trucks...that are BIG, or speedy or more capable in other ways than your average family truckster because the just LIKE them, have fun in them, etc?

                    Not everyone buys a car/truck just for transportation.

                    Some of us buy to have fun vehicles that are a blast to drive.

                    I've only owned 2-seater sports cars all my life. I've never bou

            • Well thats a whole different matter isn't it. When people make their political orientation their entire personality, its not a hard jump from "climate change is a communist plot by the lizard people/jews" to "Im going to intentionally make my car output black soot!"

        • Re:They need it (Score:5, Insightful)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Friday July 12, 2024 @04:23AM (#64620467) Homepage Journal

          Cheaper because they started mass producing them in incredible quantities. Western companies tend to react to demand, in China they create demand by getting the cost down to a level where it takes market share away from other things.

          They did it with EVs too. Low cost models that opened up huge markets and took sales away from fossil cars. Charge them at home with your cheap solar panels. Safer and more practical than your old scooter.

          • by Sique ( 173459 )
            Not just that. Denmark and Germany were building wind turbines already decades ago. In the early 1990ies, Denmark had already large windparks full of wind turbines, and Germany was slowly erecting the first ones. I remember them because I did a bicycle tour in the Summer of 1990 through Denmark and Sweden. Yes, I am an old fart.

            Already at the time, wind turbines were competitive to coal plants - no cheap China labor required.

        • Here in Thailand basically everything new is electric.
          Especially bikes for delivery services.
          In the rural areas solar pumps are a thing.
          Every one who wants has a 2kW solar roof.
          Foreigners often oversize, because they want to have 2 days storage and instead of insulation they have oversized air cons.

  • Everyone has to deal with the consequences of GHG emissions from anyone.

    But whether the regime believe this or not, I think renewable energy creates a social pressure toward democracy. It will eventually yield liberal social dividends within China, even as it supports global necessities.
    • I think renewable energy creates a social pressure toward democracy.

      Is there a rational reason you believe this? Or is it just a feeling?

      China is a big importer of petroleum and gas. Green energy reduces that, decreasing China's trade deficit. That leads to prosperity and lower inflation.

      As long as the CCP can deliver economic growth, it will stay in power. Successful green energy projects reduce support for democracy.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Renewables democratize energy production. Instead of being reliant on big centralized producers, you can make your own. With some cheap batteries you can store it too. With an EV you are no longer reliant on oil companies to get around either.

        It's freedom in a very literal sense. Self sufficiency, rather than relying on central government. Personal choice, not taking what you are given with no say in the matter. Don't like smog? Stop contributing to it! Don't just hope whoever the government appointed does

        • Renewables democratize energy production. Instead of being reliant on big centralized producers, you can make your own.

          "Can"; right. In practice most people don't. If you have solar, which generates power intermittently, storage helps, but sharing with other people helps more. Unless your house is quite isolated, it's more logical and environmental to connect to the grid. Most solar ends up as big "farms" of solar panels owned by a large company with a few people involved in maintaining them.

          Oil is pretty bad for democracy because a small number of people can make large amounts of money for the ruling classes without the re

      • "Is there a rational reason you believe this? Or is it just a feeling?"

        There's a social difference in the influence of fuels vs. renewable energy technologies. Fuels are finite, geographically concentrated, and can be exclusively controlled. The more powerful and valuable the fuel, the more centralized and oppressive the politics that develop around it. While some of the inputs for a renewable energy technology can be cornered, there's nowhere near the same level of control: You can get most of them any

        • I guess I like your argument, but I think that it's not in the generation but the storage and distribution that the monopoly builds up. For people in rural areas anywhere between central Europe and New Zealand's South Island, though, maybe batteries + solar is getting to a level where it's practical for a pretty good life.

          • Even then, storage is nowhere near as politically controllable as a naturally-occurring, geographically-concentrated fuel. There are just too many practical and conceptually simple ways to store energy: Pumping water uphill, lifting weights, spinning flywheels, bending or compressing springs, compressing gases, phase changes, heating a substance, synthetic fuels, batteries, capacitors, etc etc. And accessing their energy is mechanically trivial.

            Transmission is a weak point, but the inherent flexibility
    • by qbast ( 1265706 )
      How come? If anything successful transition to renewable energy will prove to Chinese society that their current model works great
      • It's not that simple. A prosperous public has escalating expectations, and sooner or later those expectations run up against the inherent laziness and jealousy of entrenched power. When that prosperity emerges from distributed economic foundations, rather than hamfisted control of a fuel, the public generally wins.

        The CCP will either realize this and try to hold back renewable developments, in which case technology in the West will outstrip them and they lose ground anyway, or they'll go into it fully
    • The Chinese already have democracy, just not anything like the democracy in the west.

      And very few in China have any appetite for the disgraceful excuse for democracies in the US and UK. They laugh at the process and the results aren't anything to desire either (unlike the results in China).
      "No thanks, we're good" probably sums up the attitude.
      I doubt that will mean anything to any westerner though, since most seem to want to push their system everywhere, much like they claim communism does. They are, litera

      • Re: Good. (Score:4, Informative)

        by gtall ( 79522 ) on Friday July 12, 2024 @06:22AM (#64620603)

        You can call what the Chinese have "democracy" but that does not make it a democracy. You can vote for any CCP official you like, and woe betide the poor schmuck who attempts to run as an independent. He/she will be tagged as an enemy of the state until such time as he/she can convince the prison officials that he/she has admitted the error of their ways and promised he/she and his/her family will bow their heads in subservience for the rest of their lives. And a CCP minder will be assigned to make sure that is so.

        The CCP is a blood-sucking leech, only death will free a Chinese citizen.

        • Re: (Score:1, Flamebait)

          There is no CCP in China.
          It is called CPC.

          The rest of your post is just utter nonsense.

          • They even used to call themselves the CCP. The purity test is ridiculous.

            And the truth is somewhere in between. It's definitely not a democracy because the true test of a democracy is strong freedom of expression. Without clear information you cannot make democratic choices. The locking away of doctors and reporters at the start of COVID shows clearly that there's nothing like that in China, even if the Chinese people clearly want more of it.

            On the other hand, people of the West have to clearly admit that t

        • A cynic might look at the choice being offered to US voters, and wonder whether the US is poised to dive headlong into a similar situation.

      • Until your slightly philosophical exercise regime is perveived as a threat to social order.

        Even with the non stop propaganda I doubt many Chinese were laughing at mass arrests of friends and family.

      • The Chinese already have democracy, just not anything like the democracy in the west.

        I think the word you are looking for is "communism"....authoritarianism.....

        And yes, those are NOT anything like what democracy in the west is like.

        Polar opposites in fact.

      • "The Chinese already have democracy, just not anything like the democracy in the west."

        Redefining terms to suit your purpose is not rational argument. Having no rights and being lorded over and terrorized by people they can't even criticize, let alone dislodge from power, is not any kind of "democracy," you sick fuck.

      • The US may have a China style democracy if Trump is elected and Project 2025 goes thru. Centralized gov under one guy. That is the goal.
  • by magzteel ( 5013587 ) on Thursday July 11, 2024 @11:05PM (#64620183)

    China is smart enough to have a diversified energy supply. From: https://www.carbonbrief.org/ch... [carbonbrief.org] :

    China accounted for 95% of the world’s new coal power construction activity in 2023, according to the latest annual report from Global Energy Monitor (GEM).

    Construction began on 70 gigawatts (GW) of new capacity in China, up four-fold since 2019, says GEM’s annual report on the global coal power industry.

    This compares with less than 4GW of new coal power construction starting in the rest of the world – the lowest since 2014.

    • I am curious what sort of utilization factor those coal plants will see. Good chance that they'll be idle the vast majority of time and are mostly being built as works programs to keep people busy.

      Not mentioned in the article is that China is also building more pumped hydro storage than any other country. That will complement all of the intermittent renewables they're installing.

      • I've read that they're actually making said coal plants with the ability to upgrade them to nuclear in mind.

        • Reusing part of the coal turbine facility itself or just the land where it is built? The latter makes sense since you've got a spot with water, grid connections, and somewhat compatible zoning.

          At least one small modular reactor firm in the US was planning on reusing a site previously used by a coal-fired plant because of the reasons I listed. It was going to save them a nice chunk of cash.

    • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Friday July 12, 2024 @01:29AM (#64620303)

      China accounted for 95% of the world’s new coal power construction activity in 2023, according to the latest annual report from Global Energy Monitor (GEM).

      China's coal consumption hasn't appreciably increased in over 15 years. Nearly all of China's coal power construction is replacing existing coal fired stations for improved efficiency and reduced smog. Yeah it's not good, but it's no where near as bad as the narrative people often push about China's coal. More accurately would be to say they aren't shutting down coal, and clearly have no plans to do so for the next 30 years.

    • It's now 53%. Down from 60% last year. https://www.carbonbrief.org/an... [carbonbrief.org]

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Friday July 12, 2024 @04:19AM (#64620463) Homepage Journal

      There is a currently a war between wind/solar and coal in China. The coal side is losing. The new plants are mostly only used for peaking and occasional times when local renewable energy is low. The days of them providing base load are long gone.

      As a result there is less domestic demand for coal, and the plants are less profitable. The death spiral is well and truly underway.

      It looks like China's CO2 emissions will peak this year or next, and then fall rapidly. I thought that it would be the West leading the way with renewables and offering the technology for export to developing nations, but China has taken the market from us by simply getting on with it.

    • It's a little old, but still...

      "Everything You Think You Know About Coal in China Is Wrong"

      https://www.americanprogress.o... [americanprogress.org]

    • by dwater ( 72834 )

      Not all coal is equal, so don't assume their coal is as bad as yours. China is also innovating in 'cleal' coal, and the new coal plants are a result of incentives that were poorly targeted and have since been removed. Coal stations can be less polluting than gas, but they're expensive, so I'm not sure if any of the Chinese ones are.

      "This issue brief covers three things American observers need to understand about coal in China:

      - China’s new coal-fired power plants are cleaner than anything operating in

      • by gtall ( 79522 )

        The coal-fired plants still emit CO2, that's the pollutant that matters.

      • Maybe they are keeping some coal around for flyash for concrete. I saw a story recently about a severe shortage of flyash in my area and pools were being built without the additive. Result, pool cracking in a couple years. A few people have gone so far as to have core samples of the concrete done and sure enough missing the strengthening component. There problem of course is pool builders are notorious for going bankrupt so nothing to sue to get money for a very expensive fix.
  • Well that's possible when most of your people live in squander and the CCP couldn't give two shits about them.

    • by wgoodman ( 1109297 ) on Friday July 12, 2024 @01:29AM (#64620305)

      The same could be said of the GOP.

    • by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 ) on Friday July 12, 2024 @02:30AM (#64620355)

      Well that's possible when most of your people live in squander and the CCP couldn't give two shits about them.

      "live in squander"?! Surely, you mean "live in squalor"? & no, the Chinese government DOES give two shits about people living in poverty. Not so long ago they announced that a govt programme to lift 100 million people out of poverty had been completed earlier than anticipated. When was the last time you heard US politicians actually doing anything to lift 'Muricans out of poverty rather than making excuses, saying it's up to the markets & we need more capitalism, & blaming them for being lazy?

      I bet Chinese citizens are more politically literate & coherent than 'Muricans too. They certainly have better education systems.

      • by gtall ( 79522 )

        And if you believe Chinese propaganda, I have some swamp land you may also be interested in buying. No one knows how many people in China live in squalor because the only figures available are from the CCP, and they would not lie, now would they?

        • & the only figures about the USA are only available from the USA & most other countries. What's your point?
          • & the only figures about the USA are only available from the USA & most other countries. What's your point?

            There is a lot of evidence that Chinese data is falsified. Here's one example [nationalreview.com]. And another [washingtonpost.com]. That's pretty common in dictatorships, for obvious reasons. In the west, it's really not possible to fake economic data, too much of it is tracked by non-government organizations, especially investors and banks, and government has little to no ability to suppress reporting that disagrees with official numbers.

        • The CCP, can not lie. Because there is no CCP in China.

          How people who do not even know how the single party of China is called and abbreviated, think they know anything about China: is beyond me.

          • The CCP, can not lie. Because there is no CCP in China. How people who do not even know how the single party of China is called and abbreviated, think they know anything about China: is beyond me.

            Since you insist on being pedantic, the Chinese Communist Party's name is written in Chinese characters. In pinyan, this is: Zhongguo gongchan dang. "CCP" is a translation. So is CPC.

            Both English translations are equally accurate translations. You might argue that CCP is very slightly more accurate than CPC, since the word "of" does not appear in the phrase "Zhongguo gongchan dang", and "China" (Zhongguo) appears first, not last, in the word order. But why are you obsessively (and incorrectly) nitpicking th

            • why are you obsessively (and incorrectly) nitpicking the acronym?

              A few years ago it seems China decided to standardise on CPC and start obsessively correcting people, which seems to have made Western right wingers start obsessively using CCP. I think there's an ongoing war between China apologists and compulsive China detractors to get people to believe only one or the other is right so that the arguments of the other side get ignored.

              I guess the right solution is to alternate between CPC and CCP with every use so that you find out quickly who you are dealing with.

            • You might argue that CCP is very slightly more accurate than CPC
              No, you got it all wrong or made many typos.

              The name of the party in abbreviation is: CPC, not CCP. I pointed that out! So it seems we agree.
              What if we would all the Republics the repulsons and the Democrats the devourers?

              Would you be upset?

              • Two slightly different translations of the same words.

  • by toutankh ( 1544253 ) on Friday July 12, 2024 @01:11AM (#64620293)

    Isn't it worrying that India has very little wind and solar? China has 338.9 GW while India had 7.4, but they have comparable population sizes.

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      China cares about its future (in two ways: less GHG and more skills in green energy generation). India? Not so much. They will likely get depopulated by climate change in the next few decades anyways.

      Considering that India is a democracy and China is not, that observation has some rather unfortunate implications.

      • China cares about its future (in two ways: less GHG and more skills in green energy generation). India? Not so much. They will likely get depopulated by climate change in the next few decades anyways.

        Considering that India is a democracy and China is not, that observation has some rather unfortunate implications.

        You can try to use that to make a case for autocracy being a superior form of government and that democracies don't care about their future but there is a whole string of European countries that are democracies and doing the same thing China is doing with renewables.

        • by gweihir ( 88907 )

          It is not that clear-cut, I agree. Also, China is not your typical autocracy. That is in no way defending them, but they are doing quite a few things differently and that needs to be seen to understand them. For example, if the 3rd Reich had done "social scoring", the lowest performer class would have gotten murdered and the one above would have been turned into slaves. Yet in China they have that scoring but it seems to essentially just be a factor among many and it seems to be more of a tool to nudge peop

          • Don't forget here in the USA we have our own social credit system, we call it just a credit score and pretend it only pertains to economic decision making but that extends to being able to rent a place to live or even in some cases to get a job. And it's abusively difficult to fix your credit score even when your identity is stolen and SOMEONE ELSE damages it.

      • China is a democracy.
        You just do not understand how the system works.
        Everyone who is not a member of "The Party" is a none voter.
        As a party member you vote about everything that is up for voting: inside of the party.
        In a certain sense China is like Swizerland: direct democracy, voting about anything that matters.

        You Americans are simply completely brain washed about how a one party system works.

        The Party is basically a mega parliament, where everyone is free to join.

        • by gweihir ( 88907 )

          Hmm. So you have to accept a certain set of things to become a voter? Well. You know, the thing is that in order to be a Democracy, having votes of who is in power are not enough. It really depends on the surrounding conditions. Anybody meeting them by default and they can only be removed if you do something drastic like murder or treason? Democracy. Need to accept that the "party" is everything and need to do so actively? Not a Democracy.

          But as I said, China is obviously a lot more complex than a classical

        • Many autocratic nations found out that you can retain power by controlling news and the media. If people can't get different viewpoints, they vote for the person with media control who lies things in their favor.

          Thus, it can technically be a democracy without being an actual democracy. Modi (India) also plays games with the media, I'd note.

          • Hmm, Bezos, wapo, Musk, X, Murdoch, Fox &WSJ, Zuck, FB I'm sure I've missed some. Just a short list off the top of my head.
            • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

              Yes, they got their fingers in the pie, but that's different than one person controlling most of it. At least we have a variety of plutocrats pulling the strings.

          • by gweihir ( 88907 )

            India, the US, Russia, etc. all have found that mastery of manipulating the public saves you a lot of money for concentration camps.

            Democracy only works when the public is competent and can fact-check to a reasonable degree and politicians and political parties are severely limited in accepting donations and corruption gets treated harshly. Unfortunately, that is routinely not the case even in highly educated countries. One thing China has is adequate penalties for political corruption (at least when the co

  • by Fons_de_spons ( 1311177 ) on Friday July 12, 2024 @03:10AM (#64620387)
    Simple congratulations to China?
    • Re:What about... / Simple congratulations to China?

      I'm happy for China, but I'd like my American allies to recognize that this is an actual threat. If nothing else because that should help motivate them to decarbonize. I believe at some point China will get to the stage where they completely lose dependency on fossil fuels. I believe they will be able to generate hydrocarbons independently. That will vastly reduce the pressure on them to behave well with the rest of the world. I hope, by that time, they will have become more democratic and willing to cooper

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 12, 2024 @03:27AM (#64620401)

    They are simultaneously constructing more nuclear plants as well. Over the past decades, China has added 37 new nuclear reactors, while the US has only added 2 during the same period [economist.com]. They have another 22 reactors currently being built, and 150 additional ones planned for 2035 [bloomberg.com].

    This contradicts the anti-nuclear narrative and demonstrates that a sensible approach involves the extensive deployment of both solar/wind projects and nuclear power.

  • "China has become one of the main sources of the world’s solar panels and wind turbines, but as the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) pushes green energy internationally, internally the regime has been moving toward coal and nuclear power. So why is the CCP pushing one agenda abroad, yet a very different one internally? We’ll discuss in this episode of Crossroads." https://www.theepochtimes.com/... [theepochtimes.com]
    • by dwater ( 72834 )

      Epoctimes is rabidly anti-China, so don't believe a word of it (without checking).

      Here is something balanced - at least, imo it is:

      https://www.americanprogress.o... [americanprogress.org]

  • On one hand cheaper "green" products from China help the US get greener. On the other hand, the Chinese gov't heavily subsidizes green products, risking wiping out domestic producers, making us more dependent on China, which is a supply risk during crisis.

    The US will have to use a degree of tariffs to avoid killing off domestic producers, probably leaving us with a roughly 50/50 mix.

    • The US will have to use a degree of tariffs to avoid killing off domestic producers, probably leaving us with a roughly 50/50 mix.

      There needs to be an agreement to use the money from the tariffs to subsidise purchases of green equipment. That would need (at least) the US and Europe to coordinate and cross subsidise, but, done right it would allow a serious push for green transformation. Just imposing tariffs and thus increasing costs of green transformation for consumers as some seem to be suggesting seems deeply wrong to me.

  • Ah, comrades! Rejoice in the glorious achievements of our People's Republic! The unparalleled expansion of wind and solar power in our beloved China is a testament to the unwavering leadership of our great helmsman, Xi Jinping, and the brilliance of Socialism with Chinese Characteristics!

    Indeed, while the rest of the world stumbles in darkness, our China shines as a beacon of progress and enlightenment! Our 180 gigawatts of solar power under construction, coupled with 15 gigawatts of wind power, is a monume

  • Comments are fascinating. Instead of responding individually, I'll just post one of many available articles on the subject.

    https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02... [npr.org]

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