Framework Laptop 13 is Getting a Drop-In RISC-V Mainboard Option (omgubuntu.co.uk) 23
An anonymous reader shared this report from the OMG Ubuntu blog:
Those of you who own a Framework Laptop 13 — consider me jealous, btw — or are considering buying one in the near future, you may be interested to know that a RISC-V motherboard option is in the works. DeepComputing, the company behind the recently-announced Ubuntu RISC-V laptop, is working with Framework Computer Inc, the company behind the popular, modular, and Linux-friendly Framework laptops, on a RISC-V mainboard.
This is a new announcement; the component itself is in early development, and there's no tentative price tag or pre-order date pencilled in... [T]he Framework RISC-V mainboard will use soldered memory and non-upgradeable eMMC storage (though it can boot from microSD cards). It will 'drop into' any Framework Laptop 13 chassis (or Cooler Master Mainboard Case), per Framework's modular ethos... Framework mentions DeepComputing is "working closely with the teams at Canonical and Red Hat to ensure Linux support is solid through Ubuntu and Fedora", which is great news, and cements Canonical's seriousness to supporting Ubuntu on RISC-V.
"We want to be clear that in this generation, it is focused primarily on enabling developers, tinkerers, and hobbyists to start testing and creating on RISC-V," says Framework's announcement. "The peripheral set and performance aren't yet competitive with our Intel and AMD-powered Framework Laptop Mainboards." They're calling the Mainboard "a huge milestone both for expanding the breadth of the Framework ecosystem and for making RISC-V more accessible than ever... DeepComputing is demoing an early prototype of this Mainboard in a Framework Laptop 13 at the RISC-V Summit Europe next week, and we'll be sharing more as this program progresses."
And their announcement included two additional updates:
This is a new announcement; the component itself is in early development, and there's no tentative price tag or pre-order date pencilled in... [T]he Framework RISC-V mainboard will use soldered memory and non-upgradeable eMMC storage (though it can boot from microSD cards). It will 'drop into' any Framework Laptop 13 chassis (or Cooler Master Mainboard Case), per Framework's modular ethos... Framework mentions DeepComputing is "working closely with the teams at Canonical and Red Hat to ensure Linux support is solid through Ubuntu and Fedora", which is great news, and cements Canonical's seriousness to supporting Ubuntu on RISC-V.
"We want to be clear that in this generation, it is focused primarily on enabling developers, tinkerers, and hobbyists to start testing and creating on RISC-V," says Framework's announcement. "The peripheral set and performance aren't yet competitive with our Intel and AMD-powered Framework Laptop Mainboards." They're calling the Mainboard "a huge milestone both for expanding the breadth of the Framework ecosystem and for making RISC-V more accessible than ever... DeepComputing is demoing an early prototype of this Mainboard in a Framework Laptop 13 at the RISC-V Summit Europe next week, and we'll be sharing more as this program progresses."
And their announcement included two additional updates:
- "Just like we did for Framework Laptop 16 last week, today we're sharing open source CAD for the Framework Laptop 13 shell, enabling development of skins, cases, and accessories."
- "We now have Framework Laptop 13 Factory Seconds systems available with British English and German keyboards, making entering the ecosystem more affordable than ever."
"We're eager to continue growing a new Consumer Electronics industry that is grounded in open access, repairability, and customization at every level."
Here are the specs for the CPU (Score:1)
https://docs.banana-pi.org/en/... [banana-pi.org]
Not something to write home about but perhaps sufficient for the throw away laptop or VDI platform. If they can keep the entire thing (a complete functional laptop) under $500 I might get one.
Re:Here are the specs for the CPU (Score:4, Informative)
As for pricing, this is just a mainboard option. I don't know if they plan on selling it with a laptop or only as the mainboard. Rough calculations are placing it at a minimum of $600. $900, minus $450 for the included mainboard, puts it at around $500 without ram/ssd. The summary says the mainboard will include ram and emmc, so it's at least a close comparison. I see boards with the JH7110 on Amazon at around $100, so that would be the cheapest I expect to see the mainboard go for.
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Grab them while you can. A Chinese RISC-V CPU looks like a good candidate for a future import ban. National security and all that.
RISC-V is a direct threat to ARM, and all the companies that implement ARM.
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Working on it- I'll give them that, and I'm excited to see it grow...
But as it sits right now, a JH7110 core is about half of a 10 year old arm core in terms of performance.
The fastest RISC-V core I know about is almost a 10 year old arm core in terms of performance.
Re:Here are the specs for the CPU (Score:4, Insightful)
I think these are more targeted at the enthusiast and folks who want to develop for the RISC platform. Same sorts of cats who buy linux mobiles or whatever. Your not necessarily doing that to have the top range phone (you'd buy an apple or samsung for that, or whatever the latest and greatest is) but because its your hobby and you want to hack on the obscure thing.
Re: (Score:2)
The specs may be "meh" now... but just a few years ago, RISC-V was, at best, something you would use for a HDD controller or some other microcontroller. The architecture has grown by leaps and bounds. I'm seeing SBCs with 32 gigs of RAM on them, and even with old Linux kernels, marginal drivers, and other items, the performance those boards are getting with every release is quite notable on a front where progress is all but stagnant elsewhere.
I can see something like a MILK-V SBC or similar being on par w
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I can see something like a MILK-V SBC or similar being on par with server-grade x86 CPUs in a few years, especially once SMIC starts going 2nm for its process nodes.
Don't get ahead of yourself. With modern knowledge the early steps are overwhelmingly the easiest. The move from micro controller to basic general purpose CPU able to run a minimal OS are trivial compared to actually matching the current most widely used products based on many decades of R&D.
You can see that in China as well with their own chips. It's trivial to get a chip out to meet minimum functionality. It's insanely difficult to get "on par" with the current state of the art.
eMMC storage? (Score:1)
Re:eMMC storage? (Score:4, Informative)
It's a concept release.
No one is buying it for the specs, it's a management purchase - "let's future-proof our investment by porting our software to RISC-V."
But presumably when RISC-V becomes genuinely usable as a daily driver, you'd be able to upgrade the mainboard to something better in 3-4 years time.
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The seventies called and they want their software strategy back. Future proof your investment by porting to RISC-V? Use a compiler flag.
And test it on what? Is your QA department made of hopes and dreams? Or is this that "agile" thing I've been hearing about.
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RISC architecture is going to change everything (Score:1)
We'll finally be able to have a laptop like in the 1995 movie Hackers. I hope its able to project the screen onto our faces.
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Later this year we'll get Windows running on RISC with the Snapdragon CPU (including the NPU for "AI"). Windows tried that a few times before, but this time the times really have changed. Maybe it will work.
RISC is certainly having a comeback
Still waiting for the boardviews.... (Score:4, Interesting)
I had hoped that Framework would be a real change in the market but we're still locked out from really repairing those boards because there's no boardview access.
Sure, you can fix some things without the schematic and/or boardview ( they're two separate things btw ), but if you really want to be able to service machines that have been damaged you do need both in this day & age.
I've approached Framework a few times and it keeps ending up with a dead end when it comes to the boardview ( even through the conduit of Louis Rossmann to assist ). Basically, the whole repairability marketing tilt is little more than skin deep; they don't even have the rights to the designs to distribute the boardviews, of which I will point out are NOT the same as design files.
Re:Still waiting for the boardviews.... (Score:5, Informative)
That's because the schematics are basically under heavy NDA. Designing a motherboard is basically impossible without heavy help from Intel or AMD and that is provided under NDA only. There's a lot of high speed signals that aren't open (usually processor-north bridge-south bridge communications) that are very timing sensitive because they run at really high speeds and things like that you pretty much give your design to Intel and they'll lay out that part of the board for you.
LIkewise, a lot of the firmware is under NDA
And repair these days is always at the board level - component level repairs haven't really been a thing, especially with the high density component layouts and BGA making it extremely difficult to rework even when you have the tools. We had to rework several boards with bad SoCs - the cost to us was close to $200 per board. The board itself cost $500, and the SoC around $50. In the end we paid it simply because the demand was high enough that those reworked boards were needed in inventory. Otherwise it might just be scrapped.
All the Framework laptops offer is the ability to upgrade them over several generations - instead of buying a laptop then a new one 3 years later, you can upgrade just the bit you likely need to upgrade - the motherboard - and be done with it. Some people like that, because they get to keep everything else the same.
Otherwise like it because they give you the option to upgrade things that aren't normally upgradeable - like a new display. If your laptop had a 1080p display, you rarely could upgrade it to a 4K display even if it was available after purchase. This is something you can do with Framework.
Re:Still waiting for the boardviews.... (Score:5, Informative)
That's because the schematics are basically under heavy NDA. Designing a motherboard is basically impossible without heavy help from Intel or AMD and that is provided under NDA only.
That's why boardviews are so nice - they don't reveal *anything* about the actual PCB fabrication other than position of the parts and the logical connections between the parts (ie, which pins are on the same net); they are not *design* files, likewise schematics aren't truly revealing a lot either, certainly not enough that you could implement a clone for exactly the reasons you cite, there's simply too many other things such as firmware, routing and actual timing/impedence-control of the signals that go well beyond what can be deduced from the schematic and/or boardview alone.
If you look at common boardview files for things like Macbooks, all they contain is a long list of the following data tuple ... yet having a boardview + schematic goes a long way towards making things actually repairable.
{ position, side, part#, pin#, network name }
Oblig.: (Score:1)
But can it run Quake?
Re: (Score:2)
A 2024 laptop should at least be able to run Crysis!
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Yeah but unlike Crysis, Quake has actually been ported to RISC-V
Heh (Score:1, Troll)
Everyone screams open source freedom and anti man .. then they see the 500$ pentium 3 motherboard on offer 25 years too late
Bitching and whining ensues ... shocker
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Re: (Score:2)
RISC-V is far from anything approaching competitive with.... anything yet.
But it's worth the time and effort to get something free of control to a competitive place.