Apple's Battery Supplier TDK Says It Made a Big Breakthrough (qz.com) 59
Rocio Fabbro reports via Quartz: TDK, the largest maker of smartphone batteries in the world, said Monday that it has successfully developed a material that could be used in a new battery with "significantly higher energy density" than its existing cells. Energy density refers to how much energy a battery can store relative to its size or weight. The material will be used in TDK's CeraCharge solid-state battery, which it says has an energy density of 1,000 watt-hours per liter -- approximately 100 times more than its conventional solid-state battery. These batteries use an oxide-based solid electrolyte, in contrast with the liquid electrolyte used in lithium-ion batteries that are widely found in electronic devices, making them "extremely safe." Solid-state batteries are smaller, charge faster, last longer, and have a lower risk of damage from temperature changes. "Smaller size and higher capacitance contribute to smaller device size and longer operating time," the Tokyo-based company said.
The battery is designed to replace coin cell primary batteries, such as those found in wearable devices like wireless headphones, smartwatches, and hearing aids. The new batteries would be rechargeable, in compliance with new European Union battery regulations that are aimed at reducing the environmental impact of batteries. TDK said it's working toward mass production of solid-state batteries, and beefing up the batteries' capacity using multi-layer lamination technology and expanding their operating temperature range.
The battery is designed to replace coin cell primary batteries, such as those found in wearable devices like wireless headphones, smartwatches, and hearing aids. The new batteries would be rechargeable, in compliance with new European Union battery regulations that are aimed at reducing the environmental impact of batteries. TDK said it's working toward mass production of solid-state batteries, and beefing up the batteries' capacity using multi-layer lamination technology and expanding their operating temperature range.
original PR (Score:5, Informative)
Here the press release from TDK: https://www.tdk.com/en/news_ce... [tdk.com]
(Without the ads and autoplay video)
100 X! (Score:2)
100 X the energy, 100 X the boom!
Re: (Score:2)
Re:original PR (Score:4, Interesting)
Press release hype
* What cell components are you measuring for that density? Just the active materials? .. under what conditions? .. and what impact does charging or discharging at those powers have on your other stats, particularly cycle life? .. and how do your numbers compare to projections for li-ion stats in that timeframe?
* Under what conditions do you actually get that density?
* What's your Wh/kg?
* What's the cycle life?
*
* What's your power density curve (charge/discharge, under different temperatures)?
*
* What's your efficiency in different conditions, given that efficiency isn't just about loss but internal heat production as well?
* If you don't have cycle life numbers, how much of your inefficiency is due to irreversible reactions? E.g. do you have >= 99,99% reversability (90% retention after 1k cycles)?
* Have you produced any at a scale larger than lab-scale synthesis?
* If not, why do you think that it will scale economically, given that scaling challenges keep most lab tech from commercialization?
* Does it contain unobtanium, e.g. anything that would inherently price it out of competitiveness?
* Does it contain inherently impose high production capital costs, such as CVD, long setting times, high vacuum oven costs, etc?
* Does it require extreme production system precision on parts that will experience differential stress or differential wear?
* What is the timescale to commercialization?
*
And about a million other questions. Just pointing out "we have a high number in some regard" is meaningless; everyone does this with all their lab breakthroughs.
Re:original PR (Score:4, Interesting)
(And as pointed out further down, the press release seems almost structured to wrongly convince people that it's 100x more energy dense than other li-ion cells, rather than "100x denser than some garbage prototype cell")
Re:original PR (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
The data sheet says the battery has a capacity of 100 micro-amp hours and a discharge rate of 20 micro-amps. Gang a bazillion of these things together and you might have something.
Re: original PR (Score:2)
The intended use for the product the spec sheet is hearing aids and earbuds.
Re: (Score:2)
True, but I think you will find that those devices require a lot more than 20 micro-amps for a total of 5 hours.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
This reminds me of that "why your anti-spam idea won’t work" checklist, but for batteries.
Ex. https://trog.qgl.org/20081217/... [qgl.org]
Good, but make a relevant comparision maybe? (Score:5, Informative)
1000 Wh/l is certainly a big step forward if it reaches production. :-) !
But the 100x comparision against TDKs old and quite obsolete solid state product is misleading.
Current best in class Lithium-Ion batteries achieve on the order of 500 Wh/l.
So this is ~2x and solid state. Great. But don't call it 100x, marketing folks
Re:Good, but make a relevant comparision maybe? (Score:4, Funny)
Each battery can power 2 Libraries of Congress or 6 Olympic sized swimming pools, though.
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That's about 4 city buses.
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Yeah but to which temperature?
I do not like to jump innocently into a pool and die to a heart stroke because it is only 0.00001C above freezing point.
Re: (Score:2)
To the industry standard temperature as determined by these guys:
https://www.nist.gov/programs-... [nist.gov].
Or 1 LoC unit of temperature, as you prefer.
Also (Score:4, Insightful)
AFAIK, the problem with most solid state rechargable tech right now is that the max effective recharge cycles are considerably lower than current liquid lithium ion batteries. Not much use if your car can now travel 1000 miles on a charge but you'll need a new battery pack in 3 years.
Re:Good, but make a relevant comparision maybe? (Score:5, Informative)
Something that is omitted from the summary is that TDK is pitching these for use in coin cells. You can get rechargable coin cells, but their energy density is low compared to single use ones. Potentially we could replace a lot of disposable coin cells with these things.
TFA doesn't mention the Wh/kg of these new cells. Maybe they are too heavy for automotive use.
Re: (Score:1)
TFA doesn't mention the Wh/kg of these new cells. Maybe they are too heavy for automotive use.
The article I read said they were to brittle to scale up even to cell phone size.
Re: (Score:1)
Given that the product differentiator is that it is solid state, the comparison to Lithium-Ion, although academically interesting, is less relevant.
The fact that it is twice Li-Ion is also good, but it seems scaling up the size may be an issue still as they are targeting small coin batteries and the like. Possibly the size issue is related to cost per volume?
Thinner devices (Score:1)
Apple Watch 10 (Score:2)
This may be behind the rumors of a "thinner" new Apple Watch.
Re: (Score:2)
This may be behind the rumors of a "thinner" new Apple Watch.
No.
That's most likely due to a change in Display Technology, like with the new M4 iPad Pro.
wH/liter? (Score:2, Funny)
what sort of liberal units are they?
Surely it's joules per pint. Cheers.
Re: wH/liter? (Score:5, Funny)
Joules are an SI unit. The units you are looking for are BTU/pint.
Re: (Score:2)
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What is that in freedom units of HP/gal?
For energy density (as opposed to power density) I think that you need HP-days/gallon to get the right dimensions.
Since energy density has the same dimensionality as pressure, the proper tabloid headline unit is weight-of-elephants per (American) football field. For reference, 1000Wh/l is nearly half a billion elephants per football field.
Great for wearables and IoT (Score:2)
However, it is only 2x the best Tesla battery density, and we have no idea on price yet. It might be a breakthrough for cars, it might be too costly.
Re: (Score:3)
It is a bit better than commercially available CR2032s, but not 100x, not even 2x.
Re: (Score:2)
It is a bit better than commercially available CR2032s, but not 100x, not even 2x.
But CR2032s don't fit into Hearing Aids or AirPods.
Re: (Score:2)
But it IS rechargeable.
Apple (Score:5, Interesting)
What Apple has to to with this story? Is about TDK, a huge Japanese corporation that produces batteries used by a lot of companies, including many Apple rivals.
Re: (Score:2)
> What Apple has to to with this story
Absolutely nothing whatsoever.
But clicks gunna bait.
Re: (Score:2)
I suppose the journalist thinks that people won't be familiar with TDK. They used to have more consumer brands, back when they were selling various kinds of tape and optical media. Now they are mostly making various semiconductor devices and industrial batteries.
Re: (Score:2)
I suppose the journalist thinks that people won't be familiar with TDK. They used to have more consumer brands, back when they were selling various kinds of tape and optical media. Now they are mostly making various semiconductor devices and industrial batteries.
The first thing I remember with a TDK Logo was a sealed Inductor inside my Vox CryBaby Wah-Wah Pedal around 1970.
Re: (Score:2)
I think they also had the confusingly named That's brand of media. Like Mitsubishi had the Verbatim brand for some reason. But then in 2007 all the media stuff was sold to Imation and became shit tier.
I think they also own Epcot, who make electronic components.
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I think they also had the confusingly named That's brand of media. Like Mitsubishi had the Verbatim brand for some reason. But then in 2007 all the media stuff was sold to Imation and became shit tier.
I think they also own Epcot, who make electronic components.
TDK marketed Audio, Video and Data Tapes for years. Typical Japanese Conglomerate: Everything from Spoons to Steamshovels.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, if TDK's technology becomes practical for more than coin cells, Apple will use it to make even slimmer phones, tablets, and laptops. Which of course sucks, because I'd gladly take any of those being 3x thicker than today's models just for the sake of larger capacity batteries.
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What Apple has to to with this story?
Slashdot is ad-supported. People bitching about Apple is lucrative.
Re: (Score:2)
Downmodded?! What did I say wrong, here?
Re: (Score:2)
Downmodded?! What did I say wrong, here?
You deigned to say something not absolutely horrible about Apple.
Here we go again (Score:2)
Sounds like another corporation has "discovered" lithium-air batteries. Stocks went a bit low due to high interest rate?
Fuck's sake, this is a technology we know of since what, 1980s? The old joke is that fusion at our planet's surface gravity is perpetually 50 years away, and lithium-air batteries are perpetually 20 years away. Because there are several critical problems we have no idea how to solve with both.
We don't use lithium ion and lithium polymer batteries for shits and giggles. We use them because
Re: (Score:2)
Didn't make it to the third sentence of the summary hey?
Re: (Score:2)
I read the entire thing. Then I read the actual announcement. Then I read the accompanying documents.
They literally tell us nothing concrete. They do imply that they figured out a way to make lithium air work. But they don't actually say it. Tomoshiro Kanno, the man behind the announcement is really good at PR, in that none of the materials published say anything meaningful, but imply a lot.
A question (Score:4, Interesting)
Thinner (Score:2)
Apple already asked them to make it thinner.
and (Score:2)
that could be used (Score:2)
'it has successfully developed a material that could be used in a new battery with “significantly higher energy density” than its existing cell', and it would go into something like a hearing aid. How exciting!
What happens if a fully charged one overheats? (Score:2)
Can Ukraine just use these in drones without need for adding any other explosives?
Somebody should compile a timeline of these (Score:2)
Just add it to the list of "breakthroughs" that haven't materialized on the market for some reason:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Apple will just make these new batteries smaller (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
but same capacity as today, and use the freed up space to add more cameras! We need more cameras!!!!!!
Like the Samsung S23 Ultra? Damn thing looks like a Spider!
https://www.samsung.com/us/sma... [samsung.com]
Apple, do you have the courage (Score:1)