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Data Storage Businesses Television

DVD Resurgence To Prevent Films From Disappearing (bbc.com) 131

Posted by msmash from the blast-from-the-past dept.
smooth wombat writes: The advent of streaming services heralded a new era of movie watching. No longer tied to an inconvenient time at a theater, movies could now be watched at your convenience any time of the day or night in your own home. However, with that convenience comes a sinister side: those same movies disappearing from streaming services. Once the movie is removed from the streaming service you can't watch it again. As a result, more people, particularly younger people, are buying DVDs, and even records, to preserve their ability to watch and listen to what they want when they want. Before his release of Oppenheimer, Christopher Nolan encouraged fans to embrace "a version you can buy and own at home and put on a shelf so no evil streaming service can come steal it from you". From the BBC article:

Other directors have chimed in to sing the praises of physical media. James Cameron told Variety:"The streamers are denying us any access whatsoever to certain films. And I think people are responding with their natural reaction, which is 'I'm going to buy it, and I'm going to watch it any time I want.'" Guillermo del Toro posted on X that "If you own a great 4K HD, Blu-ray, DVD etc etc of a film or films you love... you are the custodian of those films for generations to come." His tweet prompted people to reply, sharing evidence of their vast DVD collections. [...]
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DVD Resurgence To Prevent Films From Disappearing More

DVD Resurgence To Prevent Films From Disappearing

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  • The issue is storage space. Some people don't have whole rooms to dedicate to physical media. I do like to collect physical media (video games, movies, music), but at some point I can't buy anymore or if I do, I have to take some out of my collection.

    • Re:Storage Space (Score:4, Insightful)

      by toxonix ( 1793960 ) on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @05:32PM (#64128821)
      Try vinyl. If you have too much of it it's a real PITA. I used to own a record label, and we often had overruns of vinyl. Hundreds of copies of the same record, just sitting there in the way. We tried to ship them back to Columbia plant, but they weren't interested in recycling. The problem is, nobody wants your old collection, and it's not recyclable. I have a DVD collection, but for the last 5 years I don't think I've had anything that can play DVDs. DVDs should have come in much thinner cases like CDs.

      • I eventually just put most of my dvds into sleeve books. Much more compact.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by chefren ( 17219 )

          This is the correct answer, you can save the cover paper and any booklets too and keep a small set of DVD (or Blu-ray) cases around in case you ever want to lend or sell any of your discs.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mjwx ( 966435 )

        Try vinyl. If you have too much of it it's a real PITA. I used to own a record label, and we often had overruns of vinyl. Hundreds of copies of the same record, just sitting there in the way. We tried to ship them back to Columbia plant, but they weren't interested in recycling. The problem is, nobody wants your old collection, and it's not recyclable. I have a DVD collection, but for the last 5 years I don't think I've had anything that can play DVDs. DVDs should have come in much thinner cases like CDs.

        I've had DVDs in storage for over a decade, they still play.

        Although I do worry about the longevity of physical media, you don't leave CD's on the dash of your car in Oz because the sun will melt off the coloured labels in days, if not melt the actual plastic in the height of summer. I don't play them regularly as I've already converted most to digital and have backups. Copy early, copy often.

    • Re:Storage Space (Score:5, Insightful)

      by CAIMLAS ( 41445 ) on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @05:42PM (#64128845)

      Not sure about others, but I've got a mirror of 2 SSDs which contains every movie I've ever bought. It's small and fits in an ITX chassis.

      I don't care about the physical media once it's ripped. I just rip in near-original quality and it's going to be good enough.

      Don't over complicate life.

      • Yup, when I moved countries, I just ripped my whole collection and dumped the records/CDs/DVDs - the neighbour’s kid took it all. However, I never play any of it - Youtube and other free streaming services are good enough!

      • I have a few rips but I find forever managing files boring and a chore.

        Not to mention here in the UK it's illegal so I dont care to have much ripped. The physical media is so much more interesting, plus the devices that play it are also just as interesting. I prefer the interface way more than most do, the cd play is the interface and VLC cant replace a CD player, simply because it cant play gapless which every CD player can do.

        FLAC has a great feature, allowing it to *almost* back up a CD. The TOC can be

      • Local copies aren't a backup.
        RF=2 isn't good enough for data you care about, unless you also sync it to Backblaze et al.

    • Re:Storage Space (Score:5, Insightful)

      by EvilSS ( 557649 ) on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @05:50PM (#64128875)
      Pretty sure they still make those CD binders pages that hold 4 CDs (or DVD/BR). If space is an issue, you can always ditch the clam shells and use one of those. That would collapse a sizable collection down to a few binders.

    • How many DVDs do you propose having? I am not a collector or anything like it, I have maybe 50 DVDs and 300 CDs - and it all fits in the bottom of my AV cabinet.

                Brett

    • One option is to transfer them to a home file server. Drive space is pretty cheap, you could even make a backup system. There is also software out there that will allow you to convert the server into your own streaming service.

    • A regular closet can hold several thousand DVD or BluRay cases. If you use an inexpensive disk wallet case that store just the discs themselves, you can store 1.000 discs in a 30x30x30cm cube (for people without international passports: this is 12"x12"x12").

      Your apartment could have that space, if you really had to store 1.000 movies.

      If you took the time to rip and convert (or download...) them all, it would be around 10 GB per movie (2 hours, h.265 4K video + one 7 channel audio track). 1000 movies would b

  • Me who never stopped buying them (Score:5, Insightful)

    by munehiro ( 63206 ) on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @05:25PM (#64128799) Journal

    wut? You can literally buy a ton of movies at 0.50 eur each in exchange stores. Then I can rip them, backup them, put them on as many devices I want.

    Whoever thought it was a good idea to ditch lack of physical media is a fool, because streaming companies don't only have control over what we can watch in the future, but also control of our movie past. They can literally make "inconvenient movies" that don't mesh with "THE MESSAGE" disappear, and new generations won't have any way of accessing these movies.

    • I knew this would happen but people just plowed ahead into streaming as if all that media would stay up forever. Like you said, now someone can pick and choose what you will be able to see. Save copies of it or lose it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Somewhat hilariously, the official position of the movie industry is that DVD ripping is highly illegal, comparable to downloading a car. You will surely spend decades rotting in jail because you don't want to rent from them.

      Personally I don't even bother ripping media I buy now. I grab a checked and tagged version from The Pirate Bay, saving my time and being greener by not burning all those CPU cycles.

      • > the official position of the movie industry is that DVD ripping is highly illegal

        Luckily they dont make the laws, so they must feel quite butthurt in juristictions that legally protect ripping.

      • You will surely spend decades rotting in jail because you don't want to rent from them.

        Or because you are willing to rent from them, but the content is not available on any of your services.

    • They also continually censor streaming versions, adjusting them to meet the requirements of the day.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sad_ ( 7868 )

      the bigger issue i have with streaming is those movies/series which only get a streaming service release. there have been cases where the movie was removed at a later date, this can be for several reasons including; ending licensing, legal, ...

  • Recently my kiddos wanted to rewatch one of the Harry Potter films. It's not available on the short list of streaming services I subscribe to. Fuck-all if I'm going to pay to see it again. I pull the DVD off the shelf, and we're good to go.

  • Really? (Score:5, Funny)

    by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @05:41PM (#64128841)

    "If you own a great 4K HD, Blu-ray, DVD etc etc of a film or films you love... you are the custodian of those films for generations to come."

    Really? I thought we torrent users (etc etc) were the spawn of the devil.

    • It changes, depending on time. Like in the old joke where two guys meet in a KZ.

      "What are you in for?
      "I said Hess is insane on May 5th. You?"
      "I said Hess is sane on May 15th.".

  • Streaming did not turn out as expected (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 ) on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @05:49PM (#64128873) Journal
    When streaming services appeared on the market, I thought that they would finally manage to serve the "long tail", old or obscure movies that will never have a big audience. I imagined the big studios slinging their entire collection online, movies and TV series. Available for anyone to watch, either with a subscription or a pay-per-view deal.
    The opposite happened though, with even newer releases randomly disappearing from the services. And "buy to own" means "Watch whenever you like, until we decide to drop it from the service". I'm glad young people are getting wise to this and rediscover the joys of building an actual collection. Rip and store on a NAS, and you'll have all the convenience of a streaming service.

    • . And "buy to own" means "Watch whenever you like, until we decide to drop it from the service".

      This is what I was wondering. Movies at amazon (for example) are often available for 'rent' for about the price of a movie ticket, or to 'buy' for a lot more. Are they allowed to take away a film you have 'bought'?

      I have never had that happen on Audible.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by drhamad ( 868567 )
        I don't think so. Certainly on the iTunes Store even if the movie is no longer available, if you've purchased it, you keep it.

      • > Are they allowed to take away a film you have 'bought'?

        They can do what they like. You didnt "buy" the movie you bought a license to watch it for as many times as you like. So instead of paying £3.99 every time, you pay £9.99 or whatever.

        You dont own it and have no rights to it other than to avoid paying again and again if you like to rewatch it.

        If it gets removed YMMV if you are offered a refund, I'd argue you should be offerde a part refund at least as you have now lost access to somethi

  • Some movies may become unavailable in streaming? (Score:3)

    by schwit1 ( 797399 ) on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @05:51PM (#64128879)

    Starting with Blazing Saddles

  • I still buy Case Logic (Score:4, Interesting)

    by pecosdave ( 536896 ) on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @05:55PM (#64128887) Homepage Journal

    I've got ~10 DVD Case Logics full (various capacities). I've got well over 1,000 legally owned movies on my Kodi server. They vary from DVD, to BRD, to 4K. I even have a bunch of 3D ones but never did get a 3D TV in time to actually watch them....

    I've actually written quite a long trail of thoughts on the subject.

    https://www.minds.com/pecosdav... [minds.com]

    • you don't need a 3d tv to watch 3d blu rays. you can watch in VR. just rip them to iso or mkv/mk3d and you can watch in 4xvr on Meta Quest (more convoluted for pc players but also doable)

      • I'd rather buy a secondhand 3D TV or a new 3D projector vs a VR system. The VR system costs the same as a projector anyway.

        • I'm hoping a better standardized 3D TV comes out with backwards comparability. There were some 3DS no glasses required TVs in development if I recall when the whole thing got abandoned. I figure it's just a matter of time before it comes back around.

  • "And I think people are responding with their natu (Score:3)

    by Tomahawk ( 1343 ) on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @06:12PM (#64128949) Homepage

    "Arrr, matey!'

    I don't think many will buy the DVDs, they'll just download a copy from somewhere else.

    Removing movies from Streaming services pushes more people to illegal sources (which are generally compressed so are reduced quality).

  • BR and DMCA (Score:3)

    by nyet ( 19118 ) on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @06:29PM (#64128987) Homepage

    Does Nolan know anything about BR copy protection?

    • when are we consumers going to get a release without encryption but with 4k ?

      thankfully we have libbdplus but really we should not have to do this... we paid for it

    • Does Nolan know anything about BR copy protection?

      I'm sure he does. But do you know that the DMCA can't take your Bluray away from you? And that disc keys are not revoked only player keys are, literally meaning you should always be able to play a Bluray disk, just not guaranteed your player is able to?

      There's a lot of bad things to be said about the DMCA and DRM in general, but consumers with Blurays have been unaffected by it, with the exception of people trying to play Blurays on their PCs using open source software.

      • Yes, I dont really care much about AACS as it rarely gets in my way plus I have ways around it.

        My biggest gripe is region locking. And the threat of UHD needing intgernet activation at some point.

    • Easily defeatable, but why would you need to defeat it? You'll only need to do that for something like a review etc and then you can simply pay for MakeMKV or use a HDMI capture device that ignores HDCP of which they are plentiful and dirt cheap.

  • Even Better Solution (Score:3)

    by should_be_linear ( 779431 ) on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @06:46PM (#64129027)
    With upcoming new AI video compression formats, improving on existing perhaps by order of magnitude, I hope we will see, maybe 10 years from now, something like "Movie USB disk", containing all essential movies and TV shows ever created. It might need 200 TB - 1 PB, depending on language. This disk, readily copied among people on specialized $5 devices, shared and updated online, will be THE solution of media access problem. The Pirate Bay In Your Pocket.

  • Why did we stop with music? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by thegreatemu ( 1457577 ) on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @06:50PM (#64129039)

    Anyone remember the bad-old-days of buying online music, when it was all locked down with DRM and you had maybe a 50/50 chance of still being able to play it a year later? We fought and fought, and finally got the evil corporate overlords to see reason. Now you can buy unencumbered MP3, OGG, or FLAC from any major online music store, and play those files on any device you want, back them up, burn them to CDs, whatever. Of course they'd rather you buy a streaming subscription, but all of that music is also available to buy and own in a meaningful way.

    Why the hell did we stop with music? Outside of a tiny handful of niche sites, you can't buy ebooks without DRM (even if it is trivial to remove). And you can't buy video from anywhere, DRM'd or not. You can only "buy" a license to stream it as much as you want (unless they decide to change the deal of course). Thanks to the DMCA it is illegal to rip DVDs and BluRays even for your own personal use, so there is literally no legal way to obtain unencumbered video files.

    Where is the outrage at this situation, which is exactly the same as the music situation before we fought the good fight **and actually won**?

    • Probably because people didn't care as much about movies and books as music. Music was small enough to not require as much storage, and people used digital audio players everywhere. This was also before the smartphones and anti-jailbreaking/rooting, before people were led to comply with whatever DRM is thrown their way. Add to that console gaming.

      It is a miracle that we have music "free" as it is. When digital audio players first started off, there was the entire SDMI initiative (which is dormant... but

    • Why the hell did we stop with music?

      Because people were affected by it directly.

      Where is the outrage at this situation

      Missing because people are not affected by it. There's a big difference between you not being able to use your music the way it was intended to be used simply because you no longer have an Apple account, and what is going on with Bluray. Ripping and format shifting Blurays is an edge case. Always has been. The vast majority of them are stuck into a player and the user presses play. This has always worked for them, continues to work for them, so why would they be o

    • People got used to DRM with music so they ignired it with Video.

      Most people prefer music over video, thus dont care. It's only us videophiles who do and we are mostly outnumbered by all the music junkies who won the DRM battle.

      Same with ebooks, although ebooks never really took off. Dead trees greatly outsell them and libraries somehow still exist, and they provide ebooks as well.

      Music is bigger, more people cared.

  • We're probably heading for a new dark age (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @07:00PM (#64129057)

    The "dark age" wasn't just a very unpleasant time. Yes, that maybe too. But that's just a "maybe" (ok, a pretty likely...) because what makes it "dark" is the fact that there are very few written documents left that tell us anything about that period. Back then the key reason was that few people were capable of reading and writing, and even fewer had the time and resources to create new documents. We barely know about the rulers of certain parts of the lands that were meticulously documented centuries earlier and we don't know anything at all about the common people of the times.

    Our problem today is that the media we use to create our documents are not very durable. Stone tablets from Babylonian times still exist. Which of the things we create today will still be existing in 6000 years? Not even talking about being readable, but simply existing.

    That we artificially do our best to make it not readable unless played with a "licensed" system isn't exactly helping either.

    • Well, the answer to that could easily be "nothing", but it could just as easily be "you can still watch 6000 year old episodes of Dad's Army". While individual storage mediums aren't going to last forever, the big advantage of digital storage is the ability to very easily make flawless copies of things, which gives them an unlimited lifespan - so long as enough people keep doing this, and no technological collapse, oppressive power or extended period of universal disinterest interrupts the process. Which is

      • And exactly creating these flawless copies is what is made increasingly impossible. It's great that I technically could create perfect copies of everything I have, except that this is exactly what I cannot, and even must not, do.

        We're literally legislating our heritage to be forgotten.

      • > the big advantage of digital storage is the ability to very easily make flawless copies of things

        Only true if:

        1. You know you havnt introduced errors into the copy, or have errors read from the original.
        2. You dont have any write errors and can detect when you do.
        3. Your copy does not have errors introduced after the fact and if so you can correct them.
        4. The original is unencrypted.

        People generally lack the hardware to avoid 1-3 so if they know what they are doing will use software to try and handle 1

    • Stone tablets from Babylonian times still exist.

      But do they all? Finding an occasional piece of legible stone from that time does not mean it was in any way decent way of storing information. Just googling "Babylonian writing" will show you that the majority is left to only fragments, to say nothing of the fact that maybe they were dropped once right after carving, or maybe split during the carving process itself.

      Sure your point stands, but one thing that has changed is that we actively understand archival now. What we create may not be here in 6000 year

      • Are they, though? Sure, certain information is being shifted and retained, but the majority will be lost. Just like it always was. The difference this time is, though, that the chance of something being lost because nobody cared about it being retained is much higher. Back in Babylonian times, if you lost one such stone tablet and it was buried in the sand, it may survive the test of time by chance.

        Bury a USB stick and even if you HAD the technology to read that stick in 6000 years, it will not be readable.

  • I'm not (by any stretch of the imagination) one of the "young people" mentioned in TFS. But there's been a few occasions recently where I've bought the DVD for a show we wanted to watch because the cost of the DVDs was reasonably comparable to the cost of a month's subscription to whatever random streaming service it's watchable on. Especially since life gets in the way of binging shows, and that one month subscription sometimes turns into a 3-4 month subscription before we've finished something... plus who

  • Yet another reason why piracy will continue (Score:3)

    by RUs1729 ( 10049396 ) on Wednesday January 03, 2024 @09:21PM (#64129381)

    Content owners insist in creating artificial scarcity and making it difficult to watch the material you want to watch, when you want to watch it. Piracy offers convenience: if all of a sudden I fell like watching some movie from the 80s there is a good chance that it will not available in any streaming service, or that if it is I have to jump through the hoops of creating an account, possibly paying for a whole month of access, and risking having to jump through many hoops again in order to cancel the service.

    The thing is, such movie is highly likely to be available in a torrent file to be found at one of the many relevant sites in the net. And for free to boot.

    Piracy will not disappear any time soon because content owners refuse to extricate their heads out of that place where the sun never shines and give access to all the material, all the time, easily, and at reasonable cost so that they can still make a profit. Which implies that piracy will carry on trhiving.

  • Lock out all players that don't follow specs, contract encode every disk so that it can be disabled. Done.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ledow ( 319597 )

      Yes, because that's always worked previously.

    • That has been attempted before. Look at the SDMI initiative, which is inactive, but not out of the running. We have had players that would report a health check before the central DRM servers would fork over a key to listen to music.

      If that does happen, we will be back to using apps like SoundTaxi or other analog holes, and torrents will be back en masse.

      Or, just like people did in the 2000s, they will buy from music stores that are in a different country and sell the songs for cheaper. AllofMP3 comes to

    • Never worked. DVD was broken by a 15 year old, AACS is broken by the fact all out computer architectures are insecure by their very design.

      You want to stop it dead?

      - Ban computers. - Arrest anyone with such a device.
      - Regulate access to the internet. - Acces only via libraries and fully monitored and tracked. China already does this. Seeing as a library will also be the only plave a person can touch a compuyer, this doubles up on the first item.
      - Arrest anyone who is not authorised to know the following kn

  • Plex (Score:2)

    by ledow ( 319597 )

    A few years ago I moved into a house on my own for the first time ever (aged 40+). To combat any loneliness, I signed up for a free trial of all the streaming and TV services I could find. I don't own a normal TV, haven't for the majority of my adult life.

    I discovered that I hate adverts and letting TV "wash" over me. I just don't understand it. When it's a programme I know I'll enjoy, or the first episode of something I'm testing, and I see just that programme, it's fine. But otherwise I just turn it o

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dargaud ( 518470 )

      I am very proficient now at chopping out the ads without ruining the programme for myself

      I thought those TV recording apps had an option to skip ads automatically, as there is some broadcast signal specific to ads that they can identify.

      • > I thought those TV recording apps had an option to skip ads automatically, as there is some broadcast signal specific to ads that they can identify.

        It is entirely guesswork although some stations may have a signal for old close caption devices.

    • Well if you have the time to spare...

      I record stuff but it is a right chore to revove the adverts on the PC. The recorders record the broadcast stream which always throw ffmpeg into a mess of errors as it cant handle a transport stream when transcoding to MKV. Instead for editing I must change container to avi, then I can remove all the adverts and trim up the ends etc.

      Then I encode, which takes ages. For example I decided to trim up and encode the Rugby World Cup episodes I decided to keep. Locating th

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ledow ( 319597 )

        I throw my stuff in shotcut, press S on the start/end of bits I don't want, click them, press X to delete them.

        Then I press export.

        Sorry, but it sounds like you're trying to archive everything absolutely perfectly as if you're some sort of digital archivist working for the national film library. I just want to watch the program without the crap.

        Pretty much, even with a few hundred DVB data errors, Shotcut just laughs at it and with nvenc transcodes the entire episode in about a minute.

        • I am an archivist...

          I archive loads of TV and radio, stuff I like, I dont bother archiving Call the Midwife for example :D

          I archive sound recordings I make in the field, and photos and videos I shoot of streets and shops and the like, sometimes on film. To archive a record of the high street a taht time etc, or before and after shots. Which reminds me, there is a school about to be deolished in my area for some silly reason (they could reuse it but it dont looks how they want it) so I need to take some shot

  • Unasked questions seldom get answers. So I am explicitly asking here, how long to DVDs or Blue-ray disks last before they become unreadable or unreliable? Is it a suitable archival medium?

    I would propose a simple solution. One year after a movie has become generally unavailable its DRM key must be released generally so the web can preserve it for posterity. Generally unavailable means it cannot be viewed by would be customers for a full one year stretch. Essentially a video must be continuously viewable for

    • > Unasked questions seldom get answers. So I am explicitly asking here, how long to DVDs or Blue-ray disks last before they become unreadable or unreliable? Is it a suitable archival medium?

      Still waiting.

      My CD-R's are all 20-25 years old and nothing has happened to them yet!

      My pressed discs are up to 40 years old, still in tip top health.

      I test my discs error rates to determine how they age, this isnt just me saying "they still play". I actually can see the lack of increase in errors. The only time I g

  • Much as I love his movies, I have to disagree with him here.

    You are the custodian of some physical property that will one day become somebody in the next generation's inherited problem. If you don't throw it out now, they will then.

    My father passed away with hundreds of hunting shows on VHS tapes. Guess how long I remained custodian of that.

    • > My father passed away with hundreds of hunting shows on VHS tapes. Guess how long I remained custodian of that.

      Which means you are part of the problem we aim to fight against.

      My Granddad died leaving boxes full of reel to reel tapes and a broken reel to reel player. Guess what happened to that lot?

      No, I didnt repair the player and digitise the tapes, researching the contents and indexing them just because I wanted to kill a few weeks. I did it because it had to be done, and the family were glad of it

  • From the other side of the fence (and the pond) it's a bit surreal reading about a "resurgence".

    Only last week I went to my local HMV and spent £60 on several titles, one of which was an upgrade (The Others 4k).

    My mum likes to have a list of things I'd like for xmas so she knows what to get, that list usually has games/dvd's/blurays and occasionally a CD on it.

    Basically, I never stopped.

    Streaming is just another TV channel, only a VOD one with limited content avaliable for a limited time. Much of wha

  • Best Buy was one of the largest retailers of CD, DVD, Blu-Ray, etc. After repeatedly shrinking the amount of floor space they've allocated for those formats over the years, they will stop carrying them altogether soon. Your local store has likely already placed its final order for movies and audio on physical media.

    That leaves you with WalMart, Target, or online retailers. I wouldn't expect the first two to hold on to physical media much longer, and the third is a giant question mark.
  • Not so coincidental that, as the move to digital streaming got underway, the world's major computer manufacturers stopped including optical drives in many PCs, especially laptops.

    Hard to rip new CDs and DVDs/BluRays if you don't have the drive on your fancy new laptop.

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