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Desktops (Apple) Hardware Apple

PC Shipments Decline Slows In Q3 2023, But Apple Plunges Over 23% (techcrunch.com) 105

Posted by BeauHD from the winners-and-losers dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: It hasn't been a great time in recent quarters for PC companies, but with IDC, Gartner and Canalys all reporting data for Q3 2023, it shows an improving landscape. While shipments still declined between 7% and 9%, depending on whose data you look at, the decline was slowing. But perhaps the biggest surprise in these numbers was the fact Apple was the biggest loser this quarter, with numbers declining between 23% and 29%.

First, let's look at the overall numbers. IDC found the market dropped 7.6% year over year with 68.2 million PCs shipped, Gartner reported a 9% decline with 64.3 million units shipped and Canalys found the market down 7% with 65.6 million units shipped. In spite of that, the consensus was that the long PC market decline may be over, and we could be headed for better days with the holiday shopping season approaching in the final quarter. "There is evidence that the PC market's decline has finally bottomed out," Mikako Kitagawa, director analyst at Gartner, said in a statement.

When you look at individual manufacturers, Apple experienced by far the biggest decline, with IDC reporting -23.1%, Gartner reporting -24.2% and Canalys -29.1%. The only other company with double-digit reductions was Asus, with -10.7%, -11.5% and -10.7%, respectively. If you're looking for the only company in positive territory, that would be HP, with IDC and Gartner reporting an increase of 6.4% and Canalys only slightly different at 6.5%.
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PC Shipments Decline Slows In Q3 2023, But Apple Plunges Over 23% More

PC Shipments Decline Slows In Q3 2023, But Apple Plunges Over 23%

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  • Consumers want more pain! They were not getting enough of it from Apple so they switched to HP. They want their scanners that won't scan without ink. They want printers that force you to pay monthly to print a few pages. They want PCs with hidden costs at the checkout. Damn it. More pain!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Torodung ( 31985 )

      I have a few HP laptops. Their service department is very responsive. When you're off warranty, approved third-party service is easy to find. The crapware is pretty easy to get rid of. Regular firmware updates, good warranty service, decent (not great) machines. Only problem I've found is some of their models have battery life problems.

      Apple is pain. HP is mid. Mid is good here. I'll take meh over Apple any day.

      • Just don't buy hp printers.

        • Also don't buy HP keyboards. I got one cheap HP "Keyboard 100" website boasts about "lasting quality", had to exchange it after a day because some keys were over-sensitive and triggered by just finger proximity; the keyboard I got in exchange has control/alt keys that occasionally (twice a day) block in the pressed position. I recommend any crappy low-end no-name keyboards, they are less expensive than HP cannot possibly be worse.

        • HP laser printers are fine.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dfghjk ( 711126 )

        That, and HP hasn't prevented its computers from running Windows software.

      • The keyboard on my el cheapo hp laptop failed, just the esc key actually, and it took them over a month to do the service. The machine just sat around for like two weeks.

        I never would have bought it but it was cheap so I took a chance. The last time I had an hp laptop it was a $2300 elitebook. It died due to the well known G71 GPU die bonding failure. It took over 24 hours total on the phone and two "technician" visits to get a replacement.

        • That's definitely an improvement over Apple. Their typical response to a known manufacturing defect is to deny it exists at all even though they're aware of it internally. And if that fails, they'll tell you that you're bending it wrong.

          • That's definitely an improvement over Apple. Their typical response to a known manufacturing defect is to deny it exists at all even though they're aware of it internally. And if that fails, they'll tell you that you're bending it wrong.

            2012 called; wants its meme back.

      • Even better, so far every hp laptop I've purchased (on my 3rd one) has been a cakewalk to wipe windows and put on Linux. I get the 500-600 dollar 17.1" specials at Costco. They last around 4-5 years and then I upgrade to more memory/bigger disk. my current 5 year old 12GB/1TB is due for an update. Sales are down which usually means deals are to be had. Hoping to get a decent sized SSD one this time around for 600.

        • Even better, so far every hp laptop I've purchased (on my 3rd one) has been a cakewalk to wipe windows and put on Linux. I get the 500-600 dollar 17.1" specials at Costco. They last around 4-5 years and then I upgrade to more memory/bigger disk. my current 5 year old 12GB/1TB is due for an update. Sales are down which usually means deals are to be had. Hoping to get a decent sized SSD one this time around for 600.

          Conspicuous Consumerism much?

          I'm still using my mid-2012 MacBook Pro. Still running strong and fast.

          • IDK, my phone is a little over 5 years, it doesn't have 5G. Conspicuous I'd say is changing every year or two. If anything, I am a marketeers worst nightmare, buy the low end and buy when discounts are deep. And I haven't fired it up lately, but my last laptop ran last I checked. It is a emergency backup in case I do something stupid like drop my current one.

            • IDK, my phone is a little over 5 years, it doesn't have 5G. Conspicuous I'd say is changing every year or two. If anything, I am a marketeers worst nightmare, buy the low end and buy when discounts are deep. And I haven't fired it up lately, but my last laptop ran last I checked. It is a emergency backup in case I do something stupid like drop my current one.

              BTW, that 2012 MacBook Pro was, and still is, the only Mac I've ever purchased New. Any other ones were eBay specials for a couple of hundred bucks.

              I have owned 3 iPhones total. First one was a 4s, purchased New in 2011 through my Carrier; second on was a 6 Plus, purchased New through my Carrier in 2014, because I thought I was going to do some iOS App Development; and the third one is an iPhone 8 plus, my Current phone; which was a FREE hand-me-down from a friend.

              So, I guess neither of us qualifies as a "C

      • Every hp laptop battery I owned has died in 3 years. Every other battery on every other device I own in the last 10 years still works fine.
      • Pain? Have you used the terminal on a PC lately?

  • Anyone else? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bkmoore ( 1910118 ) on Friday October 13, 2023 @05:09PM (#63923603)
    Anyone else in 2023 want to pay ca. $1000 for a non-upgradeable laptop that only has 8GB or RAM and 256 GB of flash storage?
    • I think their strategy of making macOS more and more like iOS is starting to backfire. The more alike they are, the less reason there is to buy a Mac. But maybe that's a deliberate end goal here? Push people away from their last open system so they can go fully closed? It's not like they need the Mac sales, and the Mac is a liability because it proves that iOS and its variants could be secure and open too. That's the last thing they need with the ongoing App Store lawsuits, potential government regulations

      • The difference between iOS and macOS is basically the UI, internally they are the same anyway.
        I do not see any iOS-fication happening in macOS, though. My last visit to a shop, macOS looked like always.

        • The difference between iOS and macOS is basically the UI, internally they are the same anyway.
          I do not see any iOS-fication happening in macOS, though. My last visit to a shop, macOS looked like always.

          MacOS has hands-down the most historically-stable UX between macOS and Windows. Linux isn't even in the running!

          While they definitely share a lot of similarities under the hood, macOS, iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, watchOS, and visionOS are essentially Forks of the same Base OS.

          Having said that, Apple is (very recently) doing some Code Consolidation under the hood; because it is a pain to maintain so many nearly-identical, but separate, Codebases, and it slows down propagating and testing bug fixes.

    • Sounds like a flagship phone.

    • Anyone else in 2023 want to pay ca. $1000 for a non-upgradeable laptop that only has 8GB or RAM and 256 GB of flash storage?

      Cost is not the problem for Apple users, it's the lack of dual booting or effectively emulating Windows. When Apple switched to Intel CPUs they ended the "Mac or PC" debate, you could now have both, running at full native speed on the same hardware. The number of Apple users doubled.

      Now with the move to ARM the "but I need Windows" reality works against them once again. Dual boot is not an option (yet ?), emulation is too slow to be practical given that it has to emulate a CPU architecture once again. So

      • Unless you got one of those lines that had defects from the beginning, Intel based Macs last forever.
        Unless you drop one into the bath tub, or the internal drive can not be replaced ...

        Windows on ARM, btw boots on Apple Silicon, it is just not widely available.

        Running ARM windows in a VM works also since quite some time.

        Why one wants windows on a Mac is beyond me ... rather buy a second machine imho. When it is idling and you do not need it, use its display as second screen ...

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by drnb ( 2434720 )

          Unless you got one of those lines that had defects from the beginning, Intel based Macs last forever.

          Nope, not laptops. Batteries are a problem. Their swelling damages components, bulge the case. A repair was about $550 for my 2018 MacBookPro. Fortunately all the battery and case related stuff was taken care of under a special Apple repairs exception for that model/year. It was out of warranty. Without that bit of luck buying a mini would have been a better deal than the repairs.

          When my 2008 MacBook battery went bad it was user replaceable. A new battery was literally on the shelf at the Apple Store. Su

          • Why always bringing an edecase to an argument.

            How often does it happen that a battery swells?

            How often does it do damage? Your price tag is exceptional high for a battery replacement (I guess you had to replace the keyboard as well?)

            You answered your own question. The cost savings and convenience of a single machine. Games will prefer boot camp.
            No I did not answer my own questions. Bootcamp requires a reboot. And what ever your Mac is doing when it idles, but idles in macOS is not going to happen when you r

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by drnb ( 2434720 )

              Why always bringing an edecase to an argument.

              It's an edge case for a battery problem to develop when a laptop is 4 years old. However it is common in the log run and prevents laptops from "last[ing] forever" as claimed. You need a non battery based Mac for that.

              Your price tag is exceptional high for a battery replacement (I guess you had to replace the keyboard as well?)

              No, the keyboard was not damaged yet although it was slightly bulged (bent). The metal case was the real problem according to Apple. I paid $130 for a battery replaced. Apple covered the $420 case replaced under a special repair program for my year/model. I was lucky. Again, the laptop was only

              • Trivial. Inconsequential.
                It isn't.
                You have to reboot 2x. Once to get into Windows and ocne to get back into macOS. Depending on macOS version you end on an empty screen and no windows/apps reloaded. Or end on a full screen with 10 youtube windows running same time.

                Except for the batteries, does not matter how they die: Macs last forever. With care that is true for non Macs, too.

                There is no magic: after x to y years a laptop just dies.

                If not gaming, it's usually work or school related stuff, probably someth

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by drnb ( 2434720 )

                  Trivial. Inconsequential. It isn't. You have to reboot 2x.

                  I am not speaking hypothetically. I am speaking as someone who has dual booted. Its trivial, and it isn't necessary that often either. But having it there is so much better than two machines. Especially when mobile.

                  Except for the batteries, does not matter how they die: Macs last forever. With care that is true for non Macs, too. There is no magic: after x to y years a laptop just dies.

                  Again, speaking from experience not hypothetically. Not true for laptops, batteries eventually die from use. Once upon a time Mac laptops had user replaceable batteries. Modern Mac laptops require Apple service to replace a battery that can be prohibitively expensive with battery swelling. My 200

                • In theory you could use a 20 year old laptop ...

                  Here's the short version. Given a modern mac laptop with its internal battery and a design that allows a swelling battery to damage the metal case, here is what you need to do to use a such a machine at age 20:

                  At age 7 or 8 when it can no longer get macOS updates and it is replaced with a newer machine, use it without charging until its battery is drained. Put it into a box with its charger. 13 or 12 years later, open the box, charge it, turn it on.

                  • If you want to conserver a computer in a box, you should have its battery charged to roughly 50% (+/-10%)

                    The only problem with older laptops is: they can not connect to modern Wifi.

                    • Re: (Score:2)

                      by drnb ( 2434720 )

                      If you want to conserver a computer in a box, you should have its battery charged to roughly 50% (+/-10%) The only problem with older laptops is: they can not connect to modern Wifi.

                      Not much of a problem, they tend to have ethernet ports or adapters.

                      The real problem is that current Mac laptops, unlike older Mac laptops (let say circa 2011?) do not have user serviceable storage, memory nor battery. My 2011 (2012?) will probably outlive my 2018. Modern Macs are not built for longevity.

                    • Not much of a problem, they tend to have ethernet ports or adapters.

                      Yeah, and when I fly from Paris to BKK:
                      a) have an ethernet cable in my luggage
                      b) the random coffee shop or restaurant where I pass time, lets me plug in

                      Modern Macs are not built for longevity.
                      They are build as they are. If nothing fails on the motherboard and/or surrounding, they last forever. Just like any other computer.

                    • Re: (Score:2)

                      by drnb ( 2434720 )

                      They are build as they are. If nothing fails on the motherboard and/or surrounding, they last forever. Just like any other computer.

                      No, not like others. Their integrated batteries make them failure prone, unlike the older other Macs.

                    • The battery is not integrated.
                      How do you come to that silly idea?

                    • Re: (Score:2)

                      by drnb ( 2434720 )

                      The battery is not integrated. How do you come to that silly idea?

                      Integrated as in built-in non user replaceable. Its not visible, tolerances are so tight that battery swelling can damage components or the case. Which is a very different situation from older mac laptop designs where the battery was user removable, user replaceable, and swelling visible and not damaging other components. All this leads to older mac laptops have much better longevity, new mac laptops are not built to last. Compromises in longevity were made to make them more compact. If you want a long live

      • Anyone else in 2023 want to pay ca. $1000 for a non-upgradeable laptop that only has 8GB or RAM and 256 GB of flash storage?

        Cost is not the problem for Apple users, it's the lack of dual booting or effectively emulating Windows. When Apple switched to Intel CPUs they ended the "Mac or PC" debate, you could now have both, running at full native speed on the same hardware. The number of Apple users doubled.

        Now with the move to ARM the "but I need Windows" reality works against them once again. Dual boot is not an option (yet ?), emulation is too slow to be practical given that it has to emulate a CPU architecture once again. So losing a significant number of users who need to replace an Intel based Mac is expected.

        An ARM based Windows that could brings back dual booting and better performing emulation would help, but not entirely.

        Windows 11 on ARM under Parallels is now an officially supported configuration, including for x86 and x64 Applications, according to Microsoft.

        https://support.microsoft.com/... [microsoft.com]

        Neither Rosetta2 nor Windows actually Emulate Intel (unless they have no other choice). They both JIT Translate x86 & x64 Instructions into ARM instructions on Installation or First Run, then they directly Execute the ARM version. Apple's Rosetta2's result is just somewhat more efficient.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by drnb ( 2434720 )

          Anyone else in 2023 want to pay ca. $1000 for a non-upgradeable laptop that only has 8GB or RAM and 256 GB of flash storage?

          Cost is not the problem for Apple users, it's the lack of dual booting or effectively emulating Windows. When Apple switched to Intel CPUs they ended the "Mac or PC" debate, you could now have both, running at full native speed on the same hardware. The number of Apple users doubled.

          Now with the move to ARM the "but I need Windows" reality works against them once again. Dual boot is not an option (yet ?), emulation is too slow to be practical given that it has to emulate a CPU architecture once again. So losing a significant number of users who need to replace an Intel based Mac is expected.

          An ARM based Windows that could brings back dual booting and better performing emulation would help, but not entirely.

          Windows 11 on ARM under Parallels is now an officially supported configuration, ... That's good news. Worth a switch from VMWare Fusion to Parallels.

          ... including for x86 and x64 Applications, according to Microsoft.

          https://support.microsoft.com/... [microsoft.com]

          Neither Rosetta2 nor Windows actually Emulate Intel (unless they have no other choice). They both JIT Translate x86 & x64 Instructions into ARM instructions on Installation or First Run, then they directly Execute the ARM version. Apple's Rosetta2's result is just somewhat more efficient.

          It don't think its JIT on Rosetta2, I thought it was a one time binary to binary translation on first execution? If app's behavior was compatible. Within about 15% the speed of a recompile from source. But that was for Intel macOS apps. Not sure how similar Microsoft's scheme is.

          • It don't think its JIT on Rosetta2, I thought it was a one time binary to binary translation on first execution? If app's behavior was compatible. Within about 15% the speed of a recompile from source. But that was for Intel macOS apps. Not sure how similar Microsoft's scheme is.

            I mistakenly called it JIT, sorry. I knew better when I typed it; but was too tired to fix it.

            Yes, it is a one-time binary Translation in both the Rosetta2 and MS schemes; but I think it is done at different times.

            Apple ends up with generally very performant code, from what I've read, in most cases, nearly on-par with compiled-from-source. MS (not surprisingly) is somewhat worse; but I believe they have improved that, at least somewhat. One can hope. I don't have an Apple Silicon Mac to try that out myself.

    • The Apple hardware is great and worth the cost. The problem they're running into is on the software side. macOS is increasingly becoming less functional, especially if you want it to coexist on a network of non-Macs. What originally made OS X so great was how well it played with others.

      The way Finder works now, if you mount a share (NFS, Samba) and just try to search it, be prepared to wait several minutes for a results. Doing this same thing on Linux will take seconds. If you get into the technical weeds,

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sosume ( 680416 )

        I really don't understand the praise for the Apple app store. Each app has 20 variants, they are all crappy and expensive. Search is terrible. Compared to the android play store or the xbox store, it's mediocre. I currently use 0 apps from the app store on my mac and I like to keep it that way.

      • The way Finder works now, if you mount a share (NFS, Samba) and just try to search it, be prepared to wait several minutes for a results.

        Simple fix (took 2 seconds to DDG) :

        https://support.apple.com/en-u... [apple.com]

        None of this is to mention the limited options and difficulty setting up a RAID. I don't think there's a way without getting locked into some proprietary hardware/software combo.

        Wanna RAID? Use Disk Utility's RAID Assistant to set up Concatenated Volume Sets and a few RAID types, just like it has been for decades. And if you have a Mac Pro with a hardware RAID card, you can set up even more RAID types (just like any hardware RAID solution). Hardly difficult or unusually-proprietary. Notice it works in the latest version of macOS:

        https://support.apple.com/guid... [apple.com]

        Use SSH? Well, if you have custom settings then every time you update your Mac it will override them with the system defaults.

        Perhaps this will help:

        https://www.techrepublic.com [techrepublic.com]

        • Maybe you're my boss. He also like to quickly Google things, not read the results, and then tell me, "See, it's simple to fix, look at this link."

          Your first link does not fix the Samba/NFS search issue. Been there, tried it.

          Your second link only provides options for RAID 0, 1, or JBOD. That is not helpful for my use case, which is not particularly unique. Apple could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by hopping on the ZFS bandwagon instead of making their own, less powerful file system that only works

          • Maybe you're my boss. He also like to quickly Google things, not read the results, and then tell me, "See, it's simple to fix, look at this link."

            Your first link does not fix the Samba/NFS search issue. Been there, tried it.

            If it's such a widespread issue, why haven't I heard about it before now?

            Your second link only provides options for RAID 0, 1, or JBOD. That is not helpful for my use case, which is not particularly unique. Apple could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by hopping on the ZFS bandwagon instead of making their own, less powerful file system that only works with SSDs. Even if macOS natively supported RAID 5, it's still a shitty platform for it unless you have all SSDs because spinning disks have to use the ancient HFS+ and your disks will have a short ass lifespan. So much for the inexpensive part of RAID.

            ~

            I specifically said that the software RAID setup that has existed for decades in macOS was limited; mostly because:

            1. Software RAIDs become laughingly slow with more advanced RAID configurations, like RAID 5 and above.

            2. On machines like laptops and single-drive small desktops, other than Volume Extension and JBOD, advanced RAID (and really pretty-much all RAIDs) are a cruel joke on the last two letters in the acronym itself (Independe

    • I got my mac Mini M1 base model in December 2020, 3 years on, zero issues.
      Ditto for my MacBook air M1 - flawless.

      In years past, I was absolutely a custom PC build enthusiast and still am, to a lesser degree.
      I'm surrounded by all sorts of bits of kit - Linux gaming rig, Intel Nuc running Debian bookworm for devops experiments etc., several raspberry Pi's for hobbyist stuff, latest being a security camera.

      When it comes to getting work done or doing creative stuff, like music production, I use macOS, because I

    • Iâ(TM)m still using my 2014 MacBook Pro so I guess my answer is it doesn't really matter. Youâ(TM)re clearly a boutique user and not a typical user but for the rest of us upgradability means nothing because decades old hardware works just fine today.

  • 2019 MacBook useless in 2 years (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Torodung ( 31985 ) on Friday October 13, 2023 @05:15PM (#63923611) Journal

    I don't know if we're talking about desktops or laptops here, but here's an anecdote:

    My daughter is an artist and was told by her school to purchase a 2019 MacBook Pro when she started. 2 years later, it failed. Memory failure.

    Most laptops I have ever heard of? Replace the memory sticks. Maybe $200 fix.

    Not Apple. It's a $700 motherboard replacement because it's all soldered in. Apparently the custom SSD takes a bundle to replace too. Plus there's some weird catastrophic shorting issue with the thing that occasionally comes up.

    People might have gotten wise to this. You can't repair Macs effectively, and they cost 2-3 times as much as a comparable commodity laptop. Even their flagship products have a significant risk of catastrophic failure.

    We bought a new gaming laptop for the cost of the motherboard replacement. It has twice the RAM and twice the SSD space. My kid, who is an artist, now hates Apple.

    • Re:2019 MacBook useless in 2 years (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ToasterMonkey ( 467067 ) on Friday October 13, 2023 @06:43PM (#63923799) Homepage

      was told by her school to purchase a 2019 MacBook Pro ... now hates Apple.

      Cool story. I am not an artist. I've gone through a bunch of Macs with no hardware problems, a MacBook, several iMacs over the years and some minis, and a Windows gaming laptop who's keyboard backlights will randomly flicker, sounds like a hair drier, and I have to reset the windows sound mixer settings every boot or some combination of game or discord will be muted or the wrong level. PC/Windows has come a LONG ways, it still has ugly little integration issues that drive me up a wall, but it's OK as a daily driver now at least. Good luck with family tech support.

      Ok one thing is nagging me, if you can't remove a module, boot the system up and run a memory test, you don't actually know it's that kind of repairable memory failure. Catastrophic shorting issue you say... mmmmhmmm. Suuuurre it was just a memory module that went. Sometimes you really do need a new motherboard, it happens, but I feel you, removable sodimms would be nice to have sometimes.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Lordfly ( 590616 )

        you are doing an awful lot of handwaving away this guy's anecdote to defend a company that doesn't even know you exist.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mjwx ( 966435 )

        was told by her school to purchase a 2019 MacBook Pro ... now hates Apple.

        Cool story. I am not an artist. I've gone through a bunch of Macs with no hardware problems, a MacBook, several iMacs over the years and some minis, and a Windows gaming laptop who's keyboard backlights will randomly flicker, sounds like a hair drier, and I have to reset the windows sound mixer settings every boot or some combination of game or discord will be muted or the wrong level. PC/Windows has come a LONG ways, it still has ugly little integration issues that drive me up a wall, but it's OK as a daily driver now at least. Good luck with family tech support.

        Ok one thing is nagging me, if you can't remove a module, boot the system up and run a memory test, you don't actually know it's that kind of repairable memory failure. Catastrophic shorting issue you say... mmmmhmmm. Suuuurre it was just a memory module that went. Sometimes you really do need a new motherboard, it happens, but I feel you, removable sodimms would be nice to have sometimes.

        I've managed fleets of laptops. The Apple one's failed slightly more often than the Dells and Lenovos. The big difference is, Dell or Lenovo could have them repaired within a day, Macs were out of commission for a week or more as they had to be send to another city (and in Australia, that could take days). With the Dells, 1 screw and you could pop the HDD out and shove it into a similar model (even in the bad old WinXP days), so I could have someone back up on a Dell within minutes. BTW, I've never had a b

    • Most laptops I have ever heard of?

      Keyword there is "most." Any laptop with LPDDR at the time had to be soldered. Socketed LPDDR SODIMMS took a long time to appear, the signal integrity just wasn't there. You could argue that apple should have offered a lower spec model with SODIMM sockets for regular DDR, but Apple doesn't like to offer too many SKUs. If you're in the market for a low spec laptop, Apple doesn't have you covered.

    • I got 14 years out of my 2006 Macbook Pro - it was the greatest laptop I've ever owned (and probably ever will). I upgraded the memory and storage numerous times which allowed me to get so much life out of it. Eventually, the GPU gave up and finally did it in. When it came time to replace it, I didn't consider another Macbook for even a second due to the fact that almost nothing in it can be repaired or upgraded. Since it can't be upgraded, if you want to future-proof it, you need to spend a ton on Appl

      • A friend of mine still runs his Titanium Power Book.
        Of course only as an iTunes disk jokey / music library.
        But it is still an eye catcher in his living room.

    • It depends on the Mac modell.
      Many are easy to repair.

      Apple recently pledged to support the "right to repair movements", so I guess futur models will be kind of easy to repair again.

  • My main system uses a server CPU from Q2 2012 that I bought as NOS excess inventory in 2019. The main thing holding me back is GPU speed and bandwidth between my NVMe and RAM. Baldur's Gate 3 plays great, but boy does it take a long time to load. Still, I'm not quite ready to throw money at a new computer when what I have is satisfactory. I went a little bananas and put 64GB of ECC on it, again from server pulls and NOS. Which is going to be rather expensive to replicate with a brand new system. But really

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dgatwood ( 11270 )

      There just is not much to drive upgrading one's PC anymore. There are lots of alternatives to buying a brand new system.

      Well, there actually was something. Apple produced a keyboard that was an abomination. Lots of folks upgraded right after that horror went away. Also, the Apple Silicon transition was a huge win in terms of all-day battery life, so lots of folks upgraded pretty quickly because of that. The combination of those two created a purchasing bubble, and now that the ARM transition is basically finished, that bubble has burst.

      Nothing to see here. Move along. :-)

      • There just is not much to drive upgrading one's PC anymore. There are lots of alternatives to buying a brand new system.

        Well, there actually was something. Apple produced a keyboard that was an abomination. Lots of folks upgraded right after that horror went away. Also, the Apple Silicon transition was a huge win in terms of all-day battery life, so lots of folks upgraded pretty quickly because of that. The combination of those two created a purchasing bubble, and now that the ARM transition is basically finished, that bubble has burst.

        Nothing to see here. Move along. :-)

        That's exactly my thought, too.

  • Macs just don't work for me anymore. (Score:3)

    by lusid1 ( 759898 ) on Friday October 13, 2023 @05:30PM (#63923641)

    My personal macbook is a 2017. I'll run it until it dies because I still need x86 vms. If apple silicon is ever fast enough to emulate them performantly I'll reconsider, otherwise I'll hunt down a well behaved linux laptop. Windows can't be trusted, Apple physically can't run my workloads, so Linux is all that remains. Is it 'the year of the linux desktop' again yet?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dfghjk ( 711126 )

      Didn't SuperKendall tell us that Apple Silicon ran x86 software faster than x86? They don't use an EMULATOR after all...

      I guess Apple Silicon isn't dominating the industry quite like we were led to believe.

      • Thanks to Rosetta 2, Apple Silicon can run most 64-bit Apple x86 software, and it does indeed run it very well. The operative word there, though, is "most". It can't run the x86 versions of VMware or Parallels, for instance. And the Apple Silicon native versions of those apps can't run x86 OSes.

        Rosetta 2 also can't run 32-bit Mac software, which may be a showstopper if you still enjoy playing old games from defunct companies like PopCap or FreeVerse.

        What's funny is that Codeweavers figured out how to get Cr

        • Codeweavers
          One of the few names in computer history that perfectly match and describe their business.

        • Thanks to Rosetta 2, Apple Silicon can run most 64-bit Apple x86 software, and it does indeed run it very well. The operative word there, though, is "most". It can't run the x86 versions of VMware or Parallels, for instance. And the Apple Silicon native versions of those apps can't run x86 OSes.

          Rosetta 2 also can't run 32-bit Mac software, which may be a showstopper if you still enjoy playing old games from defunct companies like PopCap or FreeVerse.

          What's funny is that Codeweavers figured out how to get CrossOver Wine to run 32-bit x86 Windows applications on Apple Silicon. And those apps run darn well, although the initial launch can be almost ludicrously slow.

          The proscription against running x86 VMWare or Parallels (under Rosetta2) is a fairly practical one, once you think about things like Hypervisors within Hypervisors.

          macOS ended all Mac 32-bit Application support with OS 10.15, Catalina (after years of ever-more-strident-warnings to Developers and Users), before the transition to Apple Silicon.

          Windows on ARM also runs 32-bit Windows Applications. Not the same thing.

      • "Faster" with lots of asterisks. It can be faster than the equivalent prior Intel mac, especially macbooks where the thermal throttling was horrendous. But compared to sufficiently cooled Intels? Not so much. There is also other craziness where Rosetta 2 runs x86-64 programs faster than the arm64 versions because many programs have x86-64 intrinsics or outright ASM in the code that has to be #ifdef'd away when the target isn't x86-64 and so the compiled C version is just poorer quality code than the optimis

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by lusid1 ( 759898 )

          In my case the VMs fall into 2 buckets; Windows Server (DC's etc that wont run on arm desktop windows), and vendor supplied OVAs that are often built on some proprietary BSD variant. I'm building automation that targets these things. None of them will run on arm in the foreseeable future, and most won't run on a cloud in any cost effective manner. Any workaround I can come up with involves adding more computers to my go bag or sticking to well internetted places and parking the extra computers somewhere

  • With all of the activations ... (Score:3)

    by MpVpRb ( 1423381 ) on Friday October 13, 2023 @05:53PM (#63923699)

    ... and restrictive licenses, upgrading a computer can turn into a multi-day nightmare
    Years ago, I upgraded frequently
    Today, I avoid it unless absolutely necessary

  • Apples prices are Crazy. (Score:3)

    by big-giant-head ( 148077 ) on Friday October 13, 2023 @08:51PM (#63923967)

    They charged a $200 upgrade to from a 256G nvme to a 512G nvme ... for $50 you can buy a 1TB nvme. As other posters have pointed out .. 16GB up from 8 is another $200 dollars. Again you can buy 32 GB of DDR5 ram for $100.00. Sorry I'll buy a nice Dell and put Linux on it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      They charged a $200 upgrade to from a 256G nvme to a 512G nvme ... for $50 you can buy a 1TB nvme. As other posters have pointed out .. 16GB up from 8 is another $200 dollars. Again you can buy 32 GB of DDR5 ram for $100.00. Sorry I'll buy a nice Dell and put Linux on it.

      A 8 GB stick of RAM costs about $30, if you dont have a spare slot, a 16 GB stick is only about $50.

  • They charged a $200 upgrade to from a 256G nvme to a 512G nvme for $50 you can buy a 1TB nvme. As other posters have pointed out 16GB up from 8 is another $200 dollars. Again you can buy 32 GB of DDR5 ram for $100.00. Sorry I'll buy a nice Dell and put Linux on it.

  • Apple dropped several balls (Score:3)

    by Tom ( 822 ) on Saturday October 14, 2023 @02:06AM (#63924297) Homepage Journal

    The focus under Tim Cook on optimized supply chains shows.

    Sure, having everything soldered in might make for a 2% cost reduction in manufacturing, but it means I'm not buying a new machine right now because I'm not sure how much RAM I need. With the last iMac I bought that wasn't an issue because I could upgrade it.

    And the pushing towards the higher end blows.

    I'd buy a new 27" iMac right now - if there was one. But no, Apple wants to push me into buying a Studio + Display for 3x the price. Because it thinks anyone who prefers a bigger screen must be some kind of pro user.

    Now combine that with the risk of sinking $2k into a machine you can't upgrade in two years when you figure out you need more RAM and you have a "no thank you" combination.

    I'm seriously considering going back to PCs. Except that the OS options suck hard. Nobody sane wants to use Windows, and last I heard the year of the desktop for Linux has been moved to 2037.

    So yeah. There, Apple, is your sales drop. You don't offer your customers good choices anymore.

  • I can sort of live with the soldered RAM, but the new twist in recent years is that in newer systems with the "T2" chip, they put the BIOS into the main SSD. Yes, that's right, when (not if) your main SSD wears out, you now have a complete brick. There's reducing cost, and then there's putting an essential function into a component that wears out. It's the worst kind of planned obsolescence, like an automobile that stops working when the seats wear out.

    And for fixing it? You just can't get fresh chips from

  • Two of my personal MacBook Pros with failed GPU likely due to Apple's poor thermal management. Apple said it was not my fault but still they refused to fix them. The language they used was socipathic. My iPad Pro has nothing Pro about it. It kills background apps so aggressively that it is impossible to really do anything with the so called multi tasking. As a developer Apple makes massive breaking changes and adds store requirements every year. Keeping my five apps up to date is a nearly full time jo
  • My suspicion is people are still able to use their purchases made during 2020 and 2021. They will be able to continue to use them for at least 4 or 5 years, unless they bought used, then good luck with Windows 11 in 2025. The next major drive to buy PC's will be Windows 10 retirement in October 2025.

    As far as Apple sales being down, no idea, except maybe fewer and fewer universities and students are seeing Mac as necessary or as a premium item. Let's face it, that is what most of us considered a MacB
  • From all of these posts, it seems that people really have a horribly short attention span, and they can't think beyond their own buying habits. The computer industry overall goes through cycles, generally 4-5 years is the length of time people keep a computer before replacing it. I am NOT talking about the people who are enthusiasts or who watch component development news daily/weekly, but your typical consumer. So, what happens, people buy a computer, use it, and after 4-5 years, they start to conside

  • For all three sources, Apple's 3Q23 YoY was below industry average but 3Q22 YoY was above industry average.

    If you compared 3Q23 to 3Q21 Apple is beating the industry average.

    (Although it's hard to do the two year comparison since what the analysts are quoting for 3Q22 shipments this year is significantly different that what they were quoting for 3Q22 shipments last year.)

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