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China Accused of 'Coordinated Disinformation Campaign' About Fukushima Waste Water in Multiple Countries (bbc.com) 114

The BBC has an article about Japan's release into the sea of treated waste water from the damaged Fukushima nuclear plant. "Scientists largely agree that the impact will be negligible, but China has strongly protested the release. And disinformation has only fuelled fear and suspicion in China." A report by a UK-based data analysis company called Logically, which aims to fight misinformation, claims that since January, the Chinese government and state media have been running a coordinated disinformation campaign targeting the release of the waste water. As part of this, mainstream news outlets in China have continually questioned the science behind the nuclear waste water discharge. The rhetoric has only increased since the water was released on 24 August, stoking public anger... Japan's foreign ministry even warned its citizens in China to be cautious and to avoid speaking Japanese loudly in public...

Logically's data also showed that, since the beginning of the year, state-owned media have run paid ads on Facebook and Instagram, without disclaimers, about the risks of the waste water release in multiple countries and languages, including English, German, and Khmer. "It is quite evident that this is politically motivated," Hamsini Hariharan, a China expert at Logically, told the BBC. She added that misleading content from sources related to the Chinese government had intensified the public outcry...

Dozens of posts on Chinese social media Weibo showed panicked crowds buying giant sacks of salt ahead of the Fukushima water release. Some worried that future supply would be contaminated. Others believed — falsely — that salt protected them against radiation. A restaurant in Shanghai, in an apparent effort to profit off the hysteria, advertised "anti-radiation" meals with errant claims of reducing skin damage and cell regeneration. A social media user asked wryly, "Why would I pay 28 yuan for tomato with seasoning?"

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China Accused of 'Coordinated Disinformation Campaign' About Fukushima Waste Water in Multiple Countries

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  • by ffkom ( 3519199 ) on Sunday September 03, 2023 @02:52PM (#63820142)
    ... being built by China and then making remote controlled landfall in Fukushima.
    • ... being built by China and then making remote controlled landfall in Fukushima.

      That would actually be pretty cool.

    • More likely a Godzilla rising out of the waters around Fukushima
      (China: See! We told you so, but you wouldn't listen...)
      which then mysteriously wades off to Taiwan and lays waste to their military and government infrastructure.
      (China: We are shocked - SHOCKED! How surprising, who would have guessed - but China shall protect our Taiwanese brothers, a fleet has already been dispatched.)

      • More likely a Godzilla rising out of the waters around Fukushima
        (China: See! We told you so, but you wouldn't listen...)

        If they just did that part it will start the legend of the Loch Fuku Godzilla!!!

  • You mean they were/are running a propaganda campaign?

    Let's call it what it is so there is NO ambiguity

    "Fake news" my ASS!

  • by sdinfoserv ( 1793266 ) on Sunday September 03, 2023 @03:15PM (#63820190)
    That's rich coming from the most polluting country on the planet: https://climate.selectra.com/e... [selectra.com]
    • China is also investing in nuclear power so it's not like they can complain if Japan does the same.

      https://www.world-nuclear-news... [world-nuclear-news.org]

      Japan's release of radioactive water is being overblown. The radioactive material is tritium, a naturally occurring isotope, in very diluted quantities so hardly a threat to anyone. It would be wise for China to keep their mouth shut on any tritium release because they may find themselves in need of disposing of dilute tritium in the future. They are setting a precedent on t

      • Re:hypocrites (Score:5, Informative)

        by quenda ( 644621 ) on Sunday September 03, 2023 @07:48PM (#63820768)

        China ... may find themselves in need of disposing of dilute tritium in the future.

        They already are. Not much at 70 TBq/ year (200mg), but about the same as Japan will be releasing. Chinese gov't hypocrisy is astounding, as always.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        France releases 100x as much, and its not a big deal. Would not want it in my local lake, but "a drop in the ocean" changes nothing.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          It's okay as long as the TEPCO measurements are correct, and as long as it is diluted properly. Personally I do trust the Japanese government to make sure TEPCO does it properly and isn't lying about the readings, but the Chinese and Koreans were never going to.

          • It's okay as long as the TEPCO measurements are correct, and as long as it is diluted properly. Personally I do trust the Japanese government to make sure TEPCO does it properly

            The concern here is that the Japanese government has never made sure Tepco did anything properly before. Trust if you must, but verify. Which, frankly, means not trusting... so DO NOT TRUST A GOVERNMENT. Or, hey, A CORPORATION. And here you are trusting BOTH. Based solely on prior experience, that is COMPLETELY UNFOUNDED. Every single statement Tepco issued about Fukushima was a lie. The situation was always more severe than they claimed, and in most cases they knew it, while in other cases they should have

    • by Anonymous Coward
      You seem to be confused.

      American people are much much worse than Chinese people [ourworldindata.org]

      And if you're on of those retards who thinks number of people doesn't matter and America should pollute only as much as monarco.
      America the country is the undisputed world champion at CO2 pollution anyway. [ourworldindata.org]

      • First, it's not as big of a gap as you're making it out to be. Third, notice how closely grouped the other two are, and what they have in common both in terms of population density and economic strength. Third, that's not pollution, and notice the very clear downward trajectory of the US along with the clear upward trajectory of China.

        Most importantly, not a single US city falls within the top 1000 most polluted cities in the world. Meanwhile, ALL of China's major cities do, as do ALL of India's major citie

    • Its not about pushing any ideological or political position. Its about destablizing. They've been caught out running an anti aboriginal voice campaign in australia, despite the fact they love to portray themselves as the big dogs in the anti-colonial game. They dont give a shit about aboriginals, either pro or against, they just want australia to be politically unstable like the russians managed to pull off in the united states by turning the usual left-right debate up to 11 with social media spam and other

    • If you adjust the pollution into "per capita", I believe you'll find the US is the most polluting country. China has about 5 times the population of the US and "only" pollutes a bit more than double. Also a (large?) portion of China's pollution is generated by factories building cheep goods for the US. With that said, I'm afraid Japan has no other option but to dump the water, and, given that they are big on fishing, i hope they did their calculation correctly and will cause as little harm as possible.
      • by jwhyche ( 6192 )

        You could but it has already been decided that "per capita" in the pollution department doesn't matter. What matters is over all pollution. The only thing that "per capita" is good for is to bash other countries that are not china.

        • it has already been decided that "per capita" in the pollution department doesn't matter.

          Citation Needed. BTW, India, which has roughly the same population as China, produces about 1/4 of China's pollution, kudos to India.

          • by jwhyche ( 6192 )

            It was decided that the environment doesn't care about "per capita." What matters is over all emissions. Anything else is not important. Good job India.

            • You are right, but, to your point, the environment doesn't care about per Country either. However per capita allows environmentalists and policy makers to see how well (or badly) the regulations that the different Countries enact are working in comparison to others. BTW, I don't want to get into a back and forth, but i'm probably failing at it :)
              • by jwhyche ( 6192 )

                The environment doesn't care about countries ether but that is the yard stick we have to use. If we could hold individuals accountable for what they do then the per capita would make sense. But we can't.

                Now it does make sense inside boarders of a country to use per capita but on the world stage, it doesn't matter.

  • by S_Stout ( 2725099 ) on Sunday September 03, 2023 @03:30PM (#63820220)
    Right before their economy fully collapses they will get a war started to keep Xi in power. Get ready for them to hate every country that is not run by a dictator.
    • by hey! ( 33014 ) on Sunday September 03, 2023 @04:03PM (#63820288) Homepage Journal

      I wouldn't go so far as to make such a confident prediction, but China getting aggressive because of the need to find scapegoats is something we really need to be worried about.

      I don't think the Chinese government gives a fig whether its neighbors are dictatorships or democracies. What it really values is order and stability, which is going to be one hell of a challgenge for whoever is in charge over the next decade. The economic and demographic problems China faces are dire.

      As alien as Xi's political values are to us, he is a remarkably energetic and politically savvy leader who rapidly rose from obscurity by skillfully harnessing Chinese anger, resentments, and feelings of entitlement and being disrespected. It's an open question whether *any* leader could navigate what China is going to have to go through without the government being threatened, but if the Chinese government decides to focus public anger and anxieties on some external scapegoat, Xi is the man you'd pick to make that work politically.

      • ...he is a remarkably energetic and politically savvy leader who rapidly rose from obscurity by skillfully harnessing anger, resentments, and feelings of entitlement and being disrespected.

        Reminds you of someone? It didn't end well.

      • I'm mostly wondering when China will reclaim Outer Manchuria.

        • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          That would be quite the thing. One of the greatest humiliations of China's century of humiliations. And the Russians busy fighting a disastrous war halfway around the world.

      • by sfcat ( 872532 ) on Sunday September 03, 2023 @11:54PM (#63821082)

        who rapidly rose from obscurity

        Xi is what's known as a 'princeling' (sp?). Its the equivalent to being born to a billionaire who held political office in the west.

      • by mjwx ( 966435 )
        China's major problem is it's rising middle class that is demanding things like rights, luxuries and a say in their own governance. That's why they keep having to invent things like "social credit" to keep them under control.

        However China is already in at least one de facto war, with India. It's up in the mountains which is why India has been investing heavily in equipment that can operate at altitude (I.E. helicopters and tanks that can handle air with a lower pressure and O2 content). It's other neighb
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      More US banks failed in the time it took for Evergrande to supposedly crash China's economy "in the next few weeks".
      • by sfcat ( 872532 )
        Evergrande lost more investor money than the market caps of all those failed banks combined by more than an order of magnitude. The Evergrande collapse by itself is roughly the same impact as the 2 failed wall street banks in 2008 (Lehman Bros and Salomon Bros). Those collapse videos are pure clickbait but all is not well with the Chinese economy either.
        • The Evergrande collapse by itself is roughly the same impact as the 2 failed wall street banks in 2008 (Lehman Bros and Salomon Bros).

          Really? The rest of the world hasn't seemed to have noticed that "same impact".

          Unlike Lehman and Salomon, which had worldwide impact for the better part of a decade. They also collapsed pretty much overnight. How long did it take Evergrande to collapse?

          • But, as with Lehman brothers, points to some scarily nasty creepy crawlies under the rock of the Chinese shadow banking system. Americans haven't noticed because most Americans are totally ignorant of what happens outside the USA, and relatively little US money is at risk directly in the Chinese pending crash.

            Here's an article - which is probably paywalled - that tells you about it

            https://www.economist.com/fina... [economist.com]

            • I recall there being a lot of talk about the shadow financial system from the Hu Jintao days.

              If anything, Xi's actions in trying to reign in control of certain industries may result in slower apparent growth, but will actually serve the country better in the long run because of reduced reliance on those sectors to make the country look better than it actually is. It's a slow bursting of bubbles.

              China isn't crashing, but more reverting to what it should look like without vacuous industries propping up
              • Ah - another of those who can't believe that modern economics has raised well over a billion people from grinding poverty over the past 30 years, in marked contrast to the lack of success of state capitalism.

                https://www.worldbank.org/en/t... [worldbank.org]

                Is the system perfect? Of course not. But it's far far better than any alternative that has been adopted anywhere.

                • So you think modern capitalism and shadow markets go hand in hand then.
                  • Everyone works to gain the maximum advantage allowable under the rules. In a state capitalist system that's likely to mean that you work invisibly. In a free market system that means that money / capital will be lent / invested to get the best return. If the open, regulated market is over regulated, money will find its way to firms by other routes, which is what the shadow banking system is about. In China's case we seem to have seen too much money going to borrowers who are about to fail, and this will be

    • Would you rather have 70M excess males or own Australia?

      The OCPF policy was always a looming time bomb.

      • by nicolaiplum ( 169077 ) on Sunday September 03, 2023 @05:20PM (#63820454)

        India has an excess male population problem without any one-child policies, and China continues to have a male-skewed birth rate as well as a very low birth rate.

        The reasons are much more deeply embedded in society (both Indian and Chinese), and are because of deeply embedded sexism and patriarchy in society. Until women have near-equal cultural status, social power, and economic power, male children will continue to be preferred.

        • Re: (Score:1, Offtopic)

          by MacMann ( 7518492 )

          Until women have near-equal cultural status, social power, and economic power, male children will continue to be preferred.

          I agree that we should protect the rights of women, and that should include keeping men from competing in women's sports. Women should be more vocal about men pretending to be women, men too. If men can be women then there's no women's rights.

          The whole "assigned gender at birth" started with a bullshit study done decades ago about intersex conditions. If there's ambiguity about the sex of an infant then the parents and physicians have to pick one. Because there are only two sexes, and "gender" isn't abo

          • To protect women we need to be clear on what it means to be a woman.

            That is nonsense. To protect women we need to protect all people. That will also protect trans people, and every other group or subgroup in the future, and save us from having to have this fight over and over again as society develops. "What, we have to treat those people like people, too?" How is the answer not obviously yes?

            If a man can pretend to be a woman then real biological women don't have rights.

            What you're really worried about is women pretending to be men, and expecting to be treated like humans with rights as a result of their apparent masculinity. You're only protecting yo

            • That is nonsense. To protect women we need to protect all people. That will also protect trans people, and every other group or subgroup in the future, and save us from having to have this fight over and over again as society develops. "What, we have to treat those people like people, too?" How is the answer not obviously yes?

              You can't protect everyone from everything. You have to make a choice. Either woman deserve a fair chance for achievement in sporting events segregated by biology for the express purpose of providing a level playing field or they deserve no such right. You can't have both.

              • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Monday September 04, 2023 @08:37AM (#63821858) Homepage Journal

                Either woman deserve a fair chance for achievement in sporting events segregated by biology for the express purpose of providing a level playing field or they deserve no such right. You can't have both.

                IMO the solution is to have both biology-segregated leagues and integrated leagues which play at different times of year so that athletes who choose to do so can participate in both. Some of these people might have to accept that their hobby is not profitable enough for them to get paid for it, though.

        • by Anonymous Coward

          Until women have near-equal cultural status, social power, and economic power, male children will continue to be preferred.

          Unfortunately, when and wherever that happens. Birthrate goes into ireversable decline. So if you don't also import a lot of people it's game over for your country.
          At least they all fail with equality.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      China's economy isn't collapsing. People have been saying it is for a decade, but it isn't.

      Remember all those "ghost cities" from 2013-2014? They are now full up. China built them in advance of expected migration, which subsequently happened: https://youtu.be/vusLJShNIfE?s... [youtu.be]

      Predictions of doom and gloom for the Chinese economy are largely based on people not understanding it.

  • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Sunday September 03, 2023 @03:51PM (#63820256)

    And the substances and finds this release is not an issue. People continue to be stupid. There are tons of things fundamentally wrong with nuclear power. This water release is not one of them.

    • There's tons of things fundamentally wrong with every source of energy, it's just that people have been fooled by propaganda out of China and Russia to believe nuclear power has the more things wrong against it rather than the least. Russia and China are building nuclear power plants while trying to convince the rest of the world to turn away from it. Why might that be? Because nuclear power gives considerable economic and military advantages. Putin and Xi want to rule the world, and that will be imposs

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        It's not due to the propaganda in Europe. It's mostly due to the incredible cost.

        This is just China taking advantage of a bad situation to make Japan look like the bad guy. Of course Japan very much was the bad guy in China about 80 years ago, and the animosity remains. It also helps Chinese companies who are competing with Japanese ones, in fishing, in the car industry, in video games etc.

    • People continue to be stupid.

      Not really. People largely are not well-read experts on everything, especially people who have restricted access to open information. It's not stupid at all for the Chinese to be protesting this. They are being told what is happening is dangerous, and have no reason, and in some cases no capability, of thinking otherwise.

      There's a reason every nation in the world uses propaganda to some degree. There's a reason every dictator fights first and foremost to discredit sources of information they can't control.

      • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        Yeah, there were an awful lot of "OMG radiations!!" comments on the Slashdot story about the release. The tone of the comments here is completely different, presumably because "China bad" outranks radiation in the minds of the majority here.

        You can give all the world's information to most people and they still choose to jump to whatever conclusion they find convenient. It's just easier than all that learnin stuff.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Yeah, there were an awful lot of "OMG radiations!!" comments on the Slashdot story about the release.

          Not really, no. Some ACs and low karma accounts perhaps, but all the well known accounts opposed to nuclear power (myself included) stuck to the science as I recall.

          • I remember a couple of negative comments that I thought made sense. One I remember is that the concern is making sure what is being released is what they say is being released. I agree with it on the basis that Tepco typically lies every time they issue a statement.

    • Is this "waste water release" though? I mean, isn't this water that was used to directly cool molten reactor cores?
      That's not what I call simply "waste water release", at least not the same as is usually released, which is water that never comes into contact with the core.
      I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong...

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        And if you actually look things up, this stuff is heavily processed and the minor amount of Tritium in there is simply the only thing you cannot get out with reasonable effort.

        • I did look things up, and it is really all about believing tepco et al. If it is so safe, they should be better uses for it (there were other options). That they still choose to release it implies that it really isn't so safe.
          Eithet way, they have destroyed the livelihoods of many.

          • by gweihir ( 88907 )

            What "other options" were there? I have not seen any credible ones. And no, this is not about "believing Tepco". If they were dumping other stuff in relevant quantities, this would get noticed or rather it would already be known that the water in the tanks has that other stuff in it.

  • You mean a communist totalitarian dictatorship was caught making something up to serve it's own ends? I am shocked, shocked, I tell you! Next you will telling me they have a collapsing economy and an abysmal human rights record.

    • I think you'll find that there is no record of human rights abuses in China. Yep, they won't be keeping records any more after the last lot got leaked all over the world.
      As Orwell said, ""Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past." So if the CCP says it didn't happen, and they control the records of what happened. Well, it clearly didn't happen.

      Oh, and the collapsing economy, housing crash, and those devastating floods didn't happen either.

      Now if the Chi

      • by whoever57 ( 658626 ) on Sunday September 03, 2023 @06:17PM (#63820570) Journal

        I think you'll find that there is no record of human rights abuses in China. Yep, they won't be keeping records any more after the last lot got leaked all over the world.

        Meanwhile Idaho just stopped collecting records of maternal mortality.

        • Meanwhile Idaho just stopped collecting records of maternal mortality.

          Or while we're on the subject, there's no legal requirement for police departments to report centrally how many people their officers kill, but we know from other records analysis that about half go unreported to the national database.

    • But they do have a collapsing economy and an abysmal... oh wait, you broke my sarcasm detector.

    • Typical western response. Can't you read? *accused*
      Of course, when it comes to China, for most hypocrite westerners, it's guilty until proven... actually, it's just guilty, no matter what.

  • After all the disinformation from the nuclear industry, it's a bit rich for some to be crying fowl. China aren't the only ones with totally valid concerns. In fact anyone with a brain knows this is wrong.
    • by sfcat ( 872532 )
      This might be the most ironic statement ever? I really hope you are kidding. The nuclear industry is the victim of one of the largest propaganda efforts in history. I hope someday we get to hold people like you accountable for the lies and misinformation you spread and all the millions of extra deaths that people like you have caused.
      • The nuclear industry should distance itself from TEPCO. This wastewater could have been used to make concrete instead of unilaterally deciding to dump their mistake into the ocean. They made a decision on behalf of the rest of the world after disregarding their legitimate protests in order to save money.
        • Thank you. I totally agree with you.
          Imo most people who don't see a problem, or at least a potential problem, are blinded by their hate for China.
          There are many things that the water could be used for, and this is the most risky option (imo).
          I was wondering why they couldn't use it for pumped storage.

  • by MacMann ( 7518492 ) on Sunday September 03, 2023 @08:17PM (#63820834)

    There's been a coordinated disinformation campaign against nuclear power for quite some time, and not all of it comes from China.

    Organizations like Greenpeace have been trying to conflate nuclear weapons with nuclear power for at least 40 years. Nuclear weapons have about as much to do with nuclear power as nuclear weapons have to do with nuclear medicine. We live longer and healthier lives because of nuclear technology, and we use that technology to make medical diagnosis and treatments. The radioactive isotopes for nuclear medicine comes in a large part from nuclear power plants. There's a case for building nuclear power plants for the medical and industrial isotopes alone, the electricity and heat we can get from them is just a nice side benefit.

    China is spreading lies about Japan's nuclear power industry in order to diminish their economic and military strength. China can't extend their influence with Japan having access to safe, efficient, clean, reliable, and plentiful energy that can only come from nuclear power. China knows this from experience, they have nuclear power plants and have plans to build many more. Russia is spreading lies about nuclear power while building their own nuclear power plants, this way they can export their natural gas in exchange for what they cannot produce themselves. If they can't trade natural gas for foreign technology then they'd burn that natural gas domestically to keep making Soviet style crap.

    The people of China and Russia are almost certainly smart and resourceful enough to create an economy like we enjoy in the USA and Western Europe. They can't have it though so long as they are being held back by their own government. Those governments hold on to control with disinformation. The truth will always win out in the end though. We can believe their lies that we can choose to abandon nuclear power and maintain our standard of living. It would seem that there's already plenty of evidence to at least show doubt, if not prove it fundamentally.

    China and Russia would find it near impossible to spread this disinformation if it weren't for our home grown disinformation. Killing domestic disinformation would inoculate us against it being imported.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Organizations like Greenpeace have been trying to conflate nuclear weapons with nuclear power for at least 40 years.

      That's because most of the countries that have a lot of nuclear power are only willing to put up with the great expense because it provides materials for nuclear weapons too. By designating it essential for national security, it's easier to justify the cost and direct some of the defence budget towards it.

    • I would put more stock in nuclear power if we had a plan for dealing with the byproducts first.

      Those plans have typically been killed by NIMBYism and the requirements for the repository to be stable for centuries.

      As well, there's the issue with production. Lot of uranium dust involved in mining, as well as cancer rates (well duh, radiation is higher in those mines). And last I saw, the projected supply of uranium for fuel purposes was estimated at ... memory say something like 75-150 years.

      So it isn't a l

      • I would put more stock in nuclear power if we had a plan for dealing with the byproducts first.

        In the USA there's been federal programs for radioactive waste disposal in progress for decades. Yucca Mountain is just one example. These projects get planned, funded, started, half complete, and then Democrats pull funding. This has happened multiple times. We know what to do with the waste. We have sites all over the USA that have been tested, surveyed, and certified for holding radioactive waste. Every time there's a hint these sites would actually be capable of disposing of waste the Democrats pu

  • Chinese Circus Party. Won't be long until they hit the circus level of Kim's regime.

    • You are a moron if you think the CCP can control 1 billion people like NK does with 26 million.

      If your short memory can't recall, we've seen the most visible protests against Xi in recent years, like that guy holding a sign on the bridge.

      Just because those incidents have slipped your mind and the 24 hour news cycle doesn't mean it's over.
      • Hong Kong was easily the biggest stronghold of democracy in China, and look at how fast it folded. Sure, it's not over, but at the same time, it will never be over. What you're seeing now is basically what China is and always has been at its core. Russia is the same way. When Gorbachev gave them democracy on a silver platter, Yeltsin got rid of it and he is viewed as the hero where Gorbachev is viewed as the bad guy. Sure, they'll both try democracy now and then, but it never works out for them so they'll j

  • The best way to convince Americans that dumping your radioactive waste into the ocean is a good idea? Tell them China opposes it!
  • They needed a way of disposing the contaminated water, so came up with the “science” saying it was safe. Presumably this UK-based data analysis company called Logically is a front for one of our state run propaganda outfits.

    Secretive Covid disinformation unit worked with security services [12ft.io]
  • Imo, the reaction was entirely predictable, and irrespective of if the reaction is justified or not, the seafood industry in the area, especially the Japanese seafood industry, was bound to be decimated.

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