Nissan Begins Repurposing Leaf Car Batteries As Portable Power Stations (extremetech.com) 64
An anonymous reader quotes a report from ExtremeTech: Slowly but surely, sales of electric cars have crept upward as traditional automakers finally embrace EVs. Nissan was early to the electric future with the venerable if modest Leaf. Nissan is now looking to turn old Leafs into something new by harvesting their batteries. The company has begun selling portable power banks built around refurbished automotive batteries, which could give these expensive Leaf cells a new lease on life. The Lithium-ion cells in vehicles have the same properties as the battery in your phone. They start out with a specific power rating, but successive discharge-recharge cycles cause physical stress to the internal structure. Eventually, this results in reduced capacity and voltage. However, Nissan says most Leaf owners stop driving the car before the battery stops working. In fact, many of the individual cells are still in good shape when the vehicles are discarded.
Each Nissan Leaf has around 48 lithium-ion battery modules -- the exact number depends on model. While some may be in poor shape at the end of a car's life, Nissan has taken to disassembling the battery packs to refurbish working modules. The result is the Nissan portable power station, which was developed in partnership with JVCKenwood Corp. and 4R Energy Corp. The bulky 32-pound portable chargers contain two Leaf battery modules with about 80% of their original capacity intact. They're no longer suitable for driving an EV, but they can still charge your phone. Nissan sells the battery packs in Japan for 170,500 yen (about $1,170). That might sound like a lot, but it's actually not bad for a super high-capacity battery pack. Each of Nissan's current-gen battery modules is 1.67 kWh, which converts to 112 Ah (112,000 mAh). Assuming a 20% loss in capacity, two of them would have enough juice to charge the largest current iPhone more than 40 times.
Each Nissan Leaf has around 48 lithium-ion battery modules -- the exact number depends on model. While some may be in poor shape at the end of a car's life, Nissan has taken to disassembling the battery packs to refurbish working modules. The result is the Nissan portable power station, which was developed in partnership with JVCKenwood Corp. and 4R Energy Corp. The bulky 32-pound portable chargers contain two Leaf battery modules with about 80% of their original capacity intact. They're no longer suitable for driving an EV, but they can still charge your phone. Nissan sells the battery packs in Japan for 170,500 yen (about $1,170). That might sound like a lot, but it's actually not bad for a super high-capacity battery pack. Each of Nissan's current-gen battery modules is 1.67 kWh, which converts to 112 Ah (112,000 mAh). Assuming a 20% loss in capacity, two of them would have enough juice to charge the largest current iPhone more than 40 times.
Meh. (Score:5, Informative)
It does sound like a lot because it is, and it's not "a super high-capacity battery pack." You can buy a couple of deep cycle golf cart batteries for ~$300 and get about the same energy storage.
ex. 2x Trojan T-105 6 V deep cycle golf cart batteries: 225 Ah * 12 V = 2.7 kWh
>Assuming a 20% loss in capacity, two of them would have
almost exactly the same capacity as the batteries costing 1/4 the amount, mentioned above.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Meh. (Score:4, Informative)
The math on TFS is a mess. I'm gonna start with the iPhone recharging thing, since that's clearly the most absurd. According to the interwebs [gsmarena.com], the iPhone 14 Pro Max has a 16.7Wh battery. Ignoring losses from voltage conversion and charging, 40 full recharge cycles would be equivalent to 668 watt hours.
Jackery sells a 518Wh portable power station, but it only weighs 13.32 LBS, so clearly something is amiss here (assuming that most lithium ion based portable power stations are similarly constructed). If we do go by weight rather than units of iPhone charge cycles, the 32 LBS figure from the summary is pretty damn close to Jackery's 1,534Wh model which weighs 35.2 LBS.
So, my best guess is that this is actually a 1.5KWh power station for $1.2 grand, which considering the used batteries, is a pretty lousy deal.
Re: (Score:3)
Jackery sells a 1KWh power station for about $1K or a little less. With new batteries.
The Nissan thing is way overpriced.
Re: (Score:2)
They also sell a 300Wh version for under $400. I used one like that on a recent 3 week cross country camping trip to charge my devices (iPhone, iPad & Apple watch) as well as inflating/deflating my air mattress. It still had 70% charge left after all that.
Re: (Score:2)
T-105s are pretty good stationary power batteries, if you want wet cells. But they're not really great golf cart batteries, because in that mission they are excessively heavy and don't last as long. Those lithium batteries, if used as golf cart batteries, still have a long life ahead of them.
I wouldn't buy them from Nissan, though. You can get Leaf cells much cheaper from other sources, build your own packs, and choose your own BMS... and save. Or spend more on quality, or whatever.
Re: (Score:2)
There is a wide variety of ways to do this. One can buy a bunch of grade "B" batteries from AliExpress or Taobao, check them, toss the duds, make a whatever-s, whatever-p battery with a spot welder, connect a BMS, maybe a fan for the circutry, and have a reliable, inexpensive battery. Or, go with grade "A" cells and pay more for longer battery life. Then, one can go with an odd, but good brand like Redodo and buy a 100 amp-hour battery (1200 watt-hours) for $360 or so, and it would include not just Bluet
Re: (Score:2)
I wouldn't buy them from Nissan, though. You can get Leaf cells much cheaper from other sources, build your own packs, and choose your own BMS... and save. Or spend more on quality, or whatever.
Good luck with that. These batteries are _dangerous_ and can well burn down you house if treated wrongly. The premium Nissan asks is also for making sure this does not happen. This is decidedly "experts only" territory.
Re: (Score:2)
There are dozens to hundreds of campers running around using self-manufactured lithium packs made up of leaf cells, tesla modules, etc etc. The tesla modules are the bad idea, because of the method of construction. you really can't evaluate and service them. The leaf modules just get bolted together. You can buy pre-crimped flat flex cables for them very cheaply. Torque to spec and you can be sure you've got a good connection. There are tons of places you can buy the modules pre-tested, e.g. https://www.gre [greentecauto.com]
Re: (Score:2)
With camping, the damage is usually limited or can be limited real-time. But you better not store them in a car of where they can set you house on fire. For more stationary installations, the question is an entirely different one.
In both cases, with a pack repurposed by the vendor, you have a reasonable expectation (both legally and factually) of them being safe. You have no such thing with something you made yourself. Unless you are at the very least an engineer in a related field and very, very careful, m
Re: (Score:2)
In both cases, with a pack repurposed by the vendor, you have a reasonable expectation (both legally and factually) of them being safe. You have no such thing with something you made yourself.
What causes you to imagine that Nissan is doing any more testing of cells than anyone else? I assure you that they are not. If you've seen their cars lately you know that their attention to detail is not what it was in the nineties.
Unless you are at the very least an engineer in a related field and very, very careful, making your own battery pack is pretty foolish.
This is nonsense. I'm not making my own BMS. These cells were designed to be combined into packs, I'm not designing the cells either. Your statement is equivalent to saying that someone must be an EE before changing their car battery because if mishandled it can build up hydrogen
Re: (Score:2)
What causes you to imagine that Nissan is doing any more testing of cells than anyone else?
Is this a serious question? Have you ever heard of a thing called "product liability"? Also, it is not only about "testing". Nissan knows these cells, both as a group and likely individually. When you buy them yourself, you have no way of duplicating that.
Seriously, why are you arguing for a bad and dangerous idea?
Re: (Score:2)
Also, it is not only about "testing". Nissan knows these cells, both as a group and likely individually. When you buy them yourself, you have no way of duplicating that.
Nissan is no more familiar with the internal state of the used cells than anyone else who tests them. They will do exactly the same kind of testing anyone else will do. Charge current over time, load testing, checking for an internal drain by observing storage voltage. If they go above and beyond they'll use thermal vision to monitor them during the test process. Anybody can do the same.
Seriously, why are you arguing for a bad and dangerous idea?
Why do you think that Nissan is going to do a better job than a hobbyist? Their goal is to make a profit. That usually mea
And the lifetime? (Score:3)
> (about $1,170). That might sound like a lot, but it's actually not bad for a super high-capacity battery pack. Each of Nissan's current-gen battery modules is 1.67 kWh
It does sound like a lot because it is, and it's not "a super high-capacity battery pack." You can buy a couple of deep cycle golf cart batteries for ~$300 and get about the same energy storage.
ex. 2x Trojan T-105 6 V deep cycle golf cart batteries: 225 Ah * 12 V = 2.7 kWh
>Assuming a 20% loss in capacity, two of them would have
almost exactly the same capacity as the batteries costing 1/4 the amount, mentioned above.
And how long will those brand new T105 batteries last?
It's a lead acid battery. Gel cells typically last 5 years and need to be replaced, my replacement battery for my truck (purchased last month) is warranteed for 3 years. Will Trojan cells last any longer?
Lithium cells decay exponentially, which means that once they've reached 80% capacity, which is their useable lifetime, they will stay at 80% for a very long time.
A warehouse floor full of leaf batteries can store a lot of energy, with a useful lifetime
Re: (Score:2)
I would expect deep cycle batteries to last a lot longer than vehicle/engine start batteries. There's a significant difference in construction.
However, they are still wet cell batteries, will require maintenance and have special venting requirements. You will need to top them up with distilled water periodically, vent the gasses they produce, and manage the corrosion caused by those gasses.
That alone is reason enough to not use them in a home environment. Though I guess if you're hardcore enough to be build
Re: (Score:2)
Trojan is literally the lead acid battery manufacturer with the best reputation in America, and it's well deserved. T-105s are not gel cells, they are traditional deep cycle wet cells.
If those batteries are cared for they will last a decade or longer in a stationary application, if not discharged past about 60%. They can last that long in a travel trailer too, but it's less likely.
You can use more of your battery capacity with Lithium, and they last longer. They provide about twice the capacity for about tw
Re: (Score:2)
1670 watt-hours at 100% capacity, or that at 80%? Big difference.
At most I'll pay $1/watt, for a premium brand like Goal Zero or Jackery, for top of the notch LiFePO4 cells that have a ton of charge cycles. If I want to go cheap, I can buy B grade batteries for a fraction of the price of "A" grade batteries. I can buy 1670 amp-hours of B grade batteries for $100-$200. Of course, I do need to go find a good BMS that has thermal protection, but those are not too pricy, even for good ones with a ton of fea
Re: (Score:3)
The official product page is here: https://www3.nissan.co.jp/opti... [nissan.co.jp]
It states 633Wh (42.2Ah/15V). But then right below that also states 169Ah... I think the second number is the output capability at 5V or something like that, i.e. what you can expect to get when charging from USB.
It does seem expensive compared to some other portable batteries with AC output, like Jackery and Ecoflow models. But it's Japan, electronics from domestic suppliers have a price premium, and it will likely be sold in shops rather
Re: (Score:2)
One of the main problems with trying to reuse (and recover from any accident) modern EV car batteries is potential damage. Lithium ion thermal runaway is a horrific safety issue (in before EV evangelists try to pretend that LFPs don't have it because they require a higher temperature to start it). It's effectively impossible to put out without letting it burn out fully (see the recent car carrier cleanup coverup where EV spontaneously combusts a month after fire is extinguished as a good recent example). An
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly. And that is why you do not do this yourself.
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is that we have a massive deluge of used lithium ion batteries coming up, and we have no idea what to do with them. Most currently end up as highly toxic waste in landfills.
Those that are "recycled" are actually just burned to recover some of the cathode materials. The beautiful PR name for the process is pyrolysis. And even that capacity is tiny compared to demand. And the much vaunted "we dissolve it in a complex set of acid baths and dump a lot of highly toxic waste gasses while recovering so
Re: (Score:2)
LFPs can run away, but they're much less likely to do so for two reasons. One, the higher ignition temperature, as you mentioned. Two, NMC produces oxygen when heated. LFP doesn't. That means they're less likely to runaway, easier to extinguish, and less likely to reignite. That doesn't mean you should put them under the bed in your RV conversion without putting them in an externally vented metal box, though.
Re: (Score:2)
>put them under the bed in your RV conversion
And yet, people put them in their garages, right below their beds. And then they start shoving a shit ton of energy into them and then go to sleep in the said bed.
When fires happen, it's spectacular. Especially since lithium ion chemistries emit toxic gasses of the kind that will knock you out within ten seconds of taking a breath. Quite a few cases of people dying to cellphone sized battery fires in a room, in a scenario that is like "He saw fire, grabbed a f
Ahead of the game (Score:5, Interesting)
During the development of the Leaf, Nissan had already started to look at the long tail of the second and third life of their EV packs. That was also part of the design decisions that went into the battery packs for the Leaf. It's good to see that these things are finding their way back in the hands of the consumers.
Re: (Score:1)
During the development of the Leaf, Nissan had already started to look at the long tail of the second and third life of their EV packs. That was also part of the design decisions that went into the battery packs for the Leaf. It's good to see that these things are finding their way back in the hands of the consumers.
But what about looking at the "long tail" of the car body shells? Why not use the old car body shells as "fixed in-place tiny homes" for the housing challenged.
Remove the bits and bobs that make it a car, then add some bits and bobs to turn it into a decent and reasonably secure sleeping shell.
It does have a drawback or two - You can't cook inside it it, unless you want to roast/smoke yourself alive. And, where would you park all of those shells?
Just think ... Nissan could address 2 yes TWO of society's problems at the same time ... but I guess they make more money recycling the de-batteried cars, right?
Yeah, I see quite a few drawbacks. Namely, no room for water plumbing, sink, toliet, shower, fridge, or useful storage. A leaf is a very tiny car, barely large enough for 2 to sleep in, (or just 1 American).
Your post makes no sense. You propose a worthless idea, then blame Nissan for not using that idea.
Re: (Score:2)
Your post makes no sense. You propose a worthless idea, then blame Nissan for not using that idea.
Hard to tell, but I think the comment was tongue in cheek-- he was trying to make a point using irony, that using left over stuff for purposes divergent from what it was made for doesn't really give you what you want.
Nissan just doesn't get it (Score:4, Informative)
Seems like it would make more sense to repurpose the cars as... cars... by installing new batteries, rather than scrapping the cars and selling a niche market product that most people with at least half a brain are going to avoid anyway. LiFePO4 chemistry is generally preferred for portable power stations because it is inherently safer and holds up better to the way people tend to use these devices.
Furthermore, and this is just my humble opinion as someone who lives in Florida and has been through a few outages: above the price point where you can just buy a decent gasoline-powered generator, larger portable power stations don't make sense. My partner and I own one of the cheap generic 250-ish watt hour models we picked up for about $100 or so from Amazon. It's great for running some lights and small fans to keep things from becoming absolutely miserable when the power goes out and I can't set up the generator because it's still storming, but once the storm blows over it's time to bust out the muti-kilowatts of fossil fuel powered goodness, so we don't end up with a fridge and chest freezer full of spoiled food. Also, the generator allows for running a few small window air conditioning units too, which would rapidly drain even the most expensive portable power station.
And trust me, after all that humidity from a hurricane, you want air conditioning.
Re: (Score:1)
Seems like it would make more sense to repurpose the cars as... cars... by installing new batteries, rather than scrapping the cars and selling a niche market product that most people with at least half a brain are going to avoid anyway. LiFePO4 chemistry is generally preferred for portable power stations because it is inherently safer and holds up better to the way people tend to use these devices.
Furthermore, and this is just my humble opinion as someone who lives in Florida and has been through a few outages: above the price point where you can just buy a decent gasoline-powered generator, larger portable power stations don't make sense. My partner and I own one of the cheap generic 250-ish watt hour models we picked up for about $100 or so from Amazon. It's great for running some lights and small fans to keep things from becoming absolutely miserable when the power goes out and I can't set up the generator because it's still storming, but once the storm blows over it's time to bust out the muti-kilowatts of fossil fuel powered goodness, so we don't end up with a fridge and chest freezer full of spoiled food. Also, the generator allows for running a few small window air conditioning units too, which would rapidly drain even the most expensive portable power station.
And trust me, after all that humidity from a hurricane, you want air conditioning.
+1 for this. At some point, it's easier to just buy a generator that produces power quickly and efficiently. Honda has small inverter gens that can keep basic necessities going using very little fuel. They are also virtually silent, and have a huge advantage over solar - they can run at night. And if you do have solar on your roof with batteries, the gen is still there is the solar panels have been damaged/torn off.
I know that it's verboten to talk about anything using fossil fuels here, as they
Re: (Score:3)
I wonder if it would eventually make sense to build what's essentially hybrid generator system? The datacenter I used to work in had a huge UPS for all the systems AND a diesel backup generator system. Now, the UPS was massively overrated for the startup time of the generator - but it was also specced to provide enough time for graceful shutdowns if the diesel generator failed, and to give us a shot at getting another generator in before it ran out. Note: It was military and located on a base. Getting
Re: (Score:3)
Seems like it would make more sense to repurpose the cars as... cars... by installing new batteries, rather than scrapping the cars and selling a niche market product that most people with at least half a brain are going to avoid anyway.
From the little bit of googling I did the cost of a new leaf battery is more than a 1/3rd of a used 2019 leaf, and well over half of a 2015.
Basically, the used car isn't valuable enough to install a new battery.
LiFePO4 chemistry is generally preferred for portable power stations because it is inherently safer and holds up better to the way people tend to use these devices.
Furthermore, and this is just my humble opinion as someone who lives in Florida and has been through a few outages: above the price point where you can just buy a decent gasoline-powered generator, larger portable power stations don't make sense. My partner and I own one of the cheap generic 250-ish watt hour models we picked up for about $100 or so from Amazon. It's great for running some lights and small fans to keep things from becoming absolutely miserable when the power goes out and I can't set up the generator because it's still storming, but once the storm blows over it's time to bust out the muti-kilowatts of fossil fuel powered goodness, so we don't end up with a fridge and chest freezer full of spoiled food. Also, the generator allows for running a few small window air conditioning units too, which would rapidly drain even the most expensive portable power station.
And trust me, after all that humidity from a hurricane, you want air conditioning.
I don't think the use case is a backup for outages. I think it's a power source for camping or a job site (less annoying then hauling around gas).
The other use case would be as a buffer if you have solar panels (charge up during the day, drain at night). But I don't know if this cell is suited for th
Re: (Score:3)
Basically, the used car isn't valuable enough to install a new battery.
I think that rather depends? I mean, yeah, it depends on the condition of the vehicle otherwise, but in general if you replace a part in conventional vehicles, under conventional valuing you generally only maintain the used value, you don't increase it.
I could easily see a new battery pack increasing the resale value of the vehicle consummately with the increased range.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
How much more could you expect to make from it than the 1/3 for the cost of the battery? Used vehicles don't sell for much more than that.
Upgrading the battery in a used LEAF to resell it isn't a winning proposition, but that's just because people buying used cars have never come across used cars being improved above and beyond their brand new state.
The original Nissan LEAF got maybe 100 miles per charge, which rapidily degraded to half that and then the car is about worthless because nobody wants a car that can only go 45 miles between charges. The original battery pack in a Nissan LEAF frankly sucks ass.
Today, we have MUCH better battery ch
Re:Nissan just doesn't get it (Score:4, Insightful)
The car isn't worthless even without a battery as long as it isn't completely wrecked. So that's the thing, separate the two values.
Battery capacity and wear should be an easily checked, known value. From that, you can calculate out the value of the battery.
Then you do basically the same sort of thing with the car - check mechanical condition, how much the tires have left, seat conditions(stains, rips), paint job, any rust, all that. Add some modifiers in for features, how popular the car is today, and all that. Get a value for that.
Add the two together, that's the price of the car. As the value of the battery degrades, at some point it's probably worth it for the buyer to slap a new battery in there. Or even the current owner not looking to sell.
There should end up being battery companies that will rate how much they'll pay for a battery based on remaining capacity and such, and that might set the value of the battery.
How much more could you expect to make from it than the 1/3 for the cost of the battery? Used vehicles don't sell for much more than that.
This doesn't really make sense? Are you saying that used cars are only 1/3rd the cost of new ones? Because I was just shopping for vehicles, and I can tell you, I saw some that were 90%.
Still, yeah, an EV old enough to have a seriously degraded battery these days would probably be in the 1/3rd price range, but I think that you're missing that due to price drops, a replacement battery isn't 1/3rd of the price of the car when it was new, it's 1/3rd of the current value of the car minus battery.
That said, if you're looking to sell the car because it no longer has the range, and you're replacing the battery to restore the range to sell it, why are you selling it again? Fix the car and it's good again, keep driving it.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I just said that the batteries aren't 1/3rd of the price of the car. Battery prices have dropped incredibly, to the point you can get a new Tesla battery for $5-20k.
Ergo, with a bit of smart shopping, for example not using a NEW battery but a refurbished one, you can get a refurbished replacement battery for like $3k. I'm not sure why they're quoting a grand for labor charges. It should be less than an hour's work!
I have a 15 year old car - there are no broken vents, the seats aren't worn out, and the el
Re: (Score:2)
Last time I was paying any attention to what they were doing, automakers were exploring ways to make refurbishing interiors easier so that it would be cheaper to credibly restore a used car to something people would be willing to pay new prices for. Since they already are doing that, but are just pissed off about it, that might be research that will come into its own soon. Now that even econoboxes have relatively fancy infotainment systems in many cases (as it's become so cheap to do so — even decent
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
[a replacement battery is] 1/3rd of the current value of the car minus battery.
nissan leafs around me (clean titles, no accidents) have asking prices of $3000 - $6000.
so the value of a nissan leaf w/o a battery? $1000 maybe?
a replacement battery + install would be ~600% the car's value.
Re: (Score:2)
It's possible, but keep in mind that the leaf isn't a luxury car. There's not much to it besides the battery.
Re: (Score:2)
I think that rather depends? I mean, yeah, it depends on the condition of the vehicle otherwise, but in general if you replace a part in conventional vehicles, under conventional valuing you generally only maintain the used value, you don't increase it.
That's correct. It is very difficult to profit by repairing/refurbishing your own vehicles, let alone by paying someone to do the labor for you. They are not designed to be easy to work on, but rather to be cost efficient, make efficient use of volume, and meet regulatory requirements. Vehicles from the 60s or so and earlier were a lot easier to actually improve the value on because they hadn't yet been shrunk, they were made out of nice thick mild steel, etc. Modern vehicles tend to get problems like squea
Re: (Score:2)
I was wondering about that.
What does that imply about the life of the car? It sounds like it is limited to the life of the battery, or less if " many of the individual cells are still in good shape when the vehicles are discarded"
Re: (Score:2)
These types of power banks are designed for portability, so you can take one with you to the beach or on a picnic. They aren't really designed to replace generators in places with unstable power supplies, although The 8-Bit Guy on YouTube recently did just that and produced a video about it. Using Ecoflow batteries he was able to get through 24 hours of no mains power, just about.
His set up is a weird DIY system using multiple Ecoflows. If you really want a whole house UPS then get a proper fixed home batte
Re: (Score:1)
You would have to replace the batteries in order to make a useful car. The problem is that this would cost more than the car is worth, since battery packs in new cars are heavily subsidized and not cost effective otherwise.
Look at Ford’s current debacle, they had to raise the prices on cars across the board to offset the cost of their tiny electric market share to the point nobody wants to buy Ford anymore. The electric cars are $50k+ and they had to abandon the $15-25k segment completely.
This is why
Re: (Score:2)
Automakers don't really make any money selling cheaper vehicles, there is too much competition there and the people with the cheapest vehicles are the least likely to get them serviced at a dealership. They will take them to a shop which will almost certainly not use genuine parts. So there's no continuing revenue on those vehicles for dealers or manufacturers.
Do the Maths and what's the use case (Score:2)
I don't understand what the use case for this is? Am I mean to take it camping? Wouldn't I just take a solar panel instead as they cost less.
This is a $1200 module with 112000mAh of capacity. I can buy four 30000mAh batteries with USB interfaces for about $20000 which provide more capacity and fit it in my pocket, they too can charge 40 iphones.
Would I use it in a power outage, assuming you have a 10KW aircon unit it provides enough capacity to run it for 10 minutes or a room size one for 30 minutes. So to
Old news. (Score:1)
Nissan is an absentee in the EV transition. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They should make a small electric RWD sports car, and call it the 240V.
Re: Nissan is an absentee in the EV transition. (Score:2)
I loved the Honda Sports EV concept. https://c-magazine.com/news/ca... [c-magazine.com]
Too bad Honda lost it's way and doesn't like to do anything niche anymore.
Re: (Score:1)
Honda should have just made an electric S2000. That's a pretty good car, except that the stock one will raise a rear wheel off the ground when pushed hard and came with an open diff. But they would have reworked the rear subframe for an EV anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
That would be a sweet beast. But nothing like that is going to happen until leadership changes there.
For a fleeting moment I thought they were going to bring the S660 to the US with a boosted 1L, but they pretty quickly backtracked on that.
Where's the hack-a-day article? (Score:2)
This is just hooking up a big li-ion battery to an inverter and charger.
There should be a hackaday article out there that does show how to do this for $50, not $1170
Re: Where's the hack-a-day article? (Score:2)
There are a million articles an doing this for cheap solar storage. Does seem like those would be more Slashdot style.
Battery prices are too high (Score:3)
A midrange EV might have a 72kwh battery, and cost about $50k. Nissan will sell you 1.67kwh of battery for $1170. So 72kwh of battery storage would cost...$50k, but no car.
Their prices are generally in line with battery storage prices. Often such batteries aren't lithium at all, but heavier, less expensive battery types.
Battery storage for the home is inexplicably expensive. I'd love to install some, but prices need to come down by half.
Re: (Score:2)
You'll have to work in the fact that they wear out pretty quick, also, and you'll be replacing them regularly.
Re: (Score:2)
LiOn isn't LifePo (Score:1)
These are not the "same as batteris in my phone" or in my off-grid solar system.
LiOn are best from 20%-80% with UP TO 4000 charge cycles and the only good point is they'll charge below 32F (0C).
LiFePo (modern cells used for solar and other applications) do 0-100% with up to 8000 charge cycles but won't charge below freezing. Some systems have a battery managemetn system (BMS) that activates a per-cell heater to keep them warm enough to charge.
Do the math. 20%-80% is 60% useful. 4000 vs 8000 is 50% usefu
Vehicles lithium-ion cells same as phone battery (Score:2)
Pffff (Score:2)
but they can still charge your phone. about $1,170 (Score:2)
Better use is to keep the cars on the road (Score:3)
If that's not possible, then figure out a way to convert them to Class B LSV( 45MPH roads or less ) and try to get another 5 or more years of use out of the car and battery.
Just saving part of the battery pack and putting into an expensive charger while throwing everything else away is not going to appease many.
LoB