Judge Denies HP's Plea To Throw Out All-in-One Printer Lockdown Lawsuit (theregister.com) 31
HP all-in-one printer owners, upset that their devices wouldn't scan or fax when low on ink, were handed a partial win in a northern California court late last week after a judge denied HP's motion to dismiss their suit. From a report: The plaintiffs argued in their amended class action complaint that HP withheld vital information by including software in its all-in-one printer/scanner/fax machines that disabled non-printing functions when out of ink and not telling buyers that was the case. "It is well-documented that ink is not required in order to scan or to fax a document, and it is certainly possible to manufacture an All-in-One printer that scans or faxes when the device is out of ink," the plaintiffs argued in their complaint.
The amended complaint was filed in February this year after US federal Judge Beth Labson Freeman dismissed the suit on the grounds that it hadn't properly stated a claim. Armed with their amended complaint, lawyers for San Franciscan Gary Freund and Minneapolis resident Wayne McMath have succeeded at not only making relevant claims, but also surviving an attempt by HP to have the entire case dismissed for a second time. In the amended complaint, Freund and McMath's lawyers argue that HP's move to disable devices that were low on ink was intentional, citing HP's own comments from a support forum post in which an HP support agent told a user complaining of similar issues that their "HP printer is designed in such a way that with the empty cartridge or without the cartridge [the] printer will not function."
The amended complaint was filed in February this year after US federal Judge Beth Labson Freeman dismissed the suit on the grounds that it hadn't properly stated a claim. Armed with their amended complaint, lawyers for San Franciscan Gary Freund and Minneapolis resident Wayne McMath have succeeded at not only making relevant claims, but also surviving an attempt by HP to have the entire case dismissed for a second time. In the amended complaint, Freund and McMath's lawyers argue that HP's move to disable devices that were low on ink was intentional, citing HP's own comments from a support forum post in which an HP support agent told a user complaining of similar issues that their "HP printer is designed in such a way that with the empty cartridge or without the cartridge [the] printer will not function."
new HP will just an EULA forcing an INK subscript (Score:4, Insightful)
new HP will just an EULA forcing an INK subscript buy just reading it.
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Pretty much.
Once they started trying to push ink subscriptions, HP is no longer a trustable company. Which is especially hilarious as they just started using, "America's most trusted printer company" as their slogan in ads again. Trusted by who? Nobody that uses printers, that's for damned sure.
Re:new HP will just an EULA forcing an INK subscri (Score:4, Funny)
Which is especially hilarious as they just started using, "America's most trusted printer company" as their slogan in ads again. Trusted by who? Nobody that uses printers, that's for damned sure.
No, no, you misunderstand. HP printers have created more trust funds than any other printer company.
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Trusted by their shareholders, perhaps? (If so, that, too, is misplaced, in the long run.)
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new HP will just an EULA forcing an INK subscript buy just reading it.
Obvious solution: Buy a different brand of printer.
HPs are overpriced anyway.
My printer is a Canon. I bought it for $39 from Walmart and it scans without ink.
WARNING: Apparently some Canon printers won't scan without ink, but my model does.
Re: new HP will just an EULA forcing an INK subscr (Score:2)
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The cost of running the printer over several years is more important than the purchase price. I will happily pay more to buy a laser printer as toner cartridges are much cheaper than ink. [[Yes, inkjets can print better photos, but I do not need that.]]
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I printed zero pages in the last six months. Maybe one or two documents in the last year.
I scan stuff way more often.
Why are you printing so much?
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Brother laser printers. No DRM bullshit, cartridges are easy to refill, scans without toner. That said, if you do a lot of document scanning then I prefer a separate device, a Fujitsu Scansnap in my case.
Consider just ordering photo prints online. It's usually cheaper than owning a photo inkjet.
If you absolutely must get an inkjet, the ones that use ink tanks are best. Cartridges are a scam.
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I go to Walmart and buy the cheapest printer.
Ink cartridges are included with the printer.
I only print one or two documents per year, so I never run out of ink.
But after about five years, the ink cartridges dry out.
Then I throw away the printer, go to Walmart, and buy a new one.
It's a feature, not a bug! (Score:4, Funny)
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Actually, not shareholder but sharespeculator experience. Someone who holds the shares wants them to be valuable years later, while the latter prefers a brief spike then doesn't care.
At Hewlett-Packard, we never stop asking (Score:1)
"What if..."
"... we can find another way to abuse our customer base."
For the younger members of the audience:
1989 print ad using the original slogan [hpmuseum.net]
Just another step in the process (Score:2)
I sure hope they win, but ... (Score:3)
The amended complaint was filed in February this year after US federal Judge Beth Labson Freeman dismissed the suit on the grounds that it hadn't properly stated a claim.
Man, I would be livid with my lawyer if my case got thrown out on a technicality like that. Seems like stuff from lawsuit 101, at least according to this [avvo.com] page. I'm rooting for them, but I hope their lawyers are up to task on this one, because you know HP is not going down easily.
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Man, I would be livid with my lawyer if my case got thrown out on a technicality like that.
Cases don't get thrown out with prejudice because of this. It is entirely a filing issue and the lawyer can simply refile it with a correct claim. The thing is that "properly stating a claim" is not as simple as you think it is. It's not like a lawyer skipped filling out a field in the form. It was likely a legal wording issue making the case not apply in a jurisdiction or something similar. This kind of stuff happens all the time and is corrected routinely.
That said ... this sort of is their one job.
Throw the book at 'em! (Score:3)
I had an HP printer that made using the other functions difficult when the (full) color cartridge "expired"; it pissed the heck out of me, as I rarely used color. F U HP
Back in the day (Score:2)
HP was synonymous with "Tank", as in "Sherman Tank".
Now it's just synonymous with "crap".
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Dammit, I need to remember to preview.
Correction:
Now it's synonymous with "tank" as in "Septic Tank"
Re: Back in the day (Score:2)
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I've actually witnessed this, or something like this.
My FIL had a LaserJet II in his home office. In the Northridge quake of '94, it fell off of its table and landed upside down. When we found it, I put it back, turned it on, and it worked just fine.
I hope it's a jury trial (Score:2)
With all jurists being old ladies who print only once in a blue moon. Please gods, please.
Upset? (Score:5, Insightful)
> printer owners, upset that
They're victims of fraud, not people having a bad day because they broke a nail.
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I'd be upset if you're a victim of fraud. The word "upset" does not have a lower or upper emotional bound. I was upset when I died to Hades yesterday during a playthrough. I was upset when my grandfather died.
Another Good Reason to Avoid "All-in-One" Devices (Score:3)
I have always avoided all-in-one devices. My Internet modem and router are two separate devices made by two different companies. I have an HP printer that only prints. I have a separate scanner that is not HP. For the rare occasions when I need to send a fax, I use a fax application on my PC that connects to my land-line phone. Having Windows on my PC I never use Microsoft's Outlook or Edge. My anti-virus is AVG, but I use something else (two somethings else) for firewalls and something even different to protect me while Web browsing.
When one vital function of an all-in-one device fails, you either have to replace the entire device or buy a single-function replacement. In the end, it is more efficient and less costly to buy single-function devices in the first place.
Re:Avoid "All-in-One" & Color Devices (Score:2)
Why shouldn't we be able to print black & white just because the yellow ink has run out. What bullshit.
HP's fallen so far... (Score:3)
I'm old - I remember when HP scanners and HP printers were rock solid.
My LaserJet 4100N lasted me over 20 years (but I did have to replace the jet direct card at least once and I finally gave it up when the cost of yet another JetDirect card would have been more than the price of a new, faster Brother...
I used to have a ScanJet 4p and later a ScanJet4c .. their old SCSI flatbed scanners were solid.
I have to say though I am surprised about this hullaballoo with "won't scan if low on ink" .. not because I didn't think they'd sink that low, but because at some point in the past, I had an HP inkjet/MFP and am pretty sure it did that to me years and years ago - so I'm more surprised someone finally managed to get traction in suing them.
seriously - you do not need ink to scan or send a fax (who faxes anymore?)
Anyway, I won't ever buy another HP scanner, printer, or computer - they're dead to me and have been for a long time as their original war on consumers via DRMing ink was just too evil - However, trying to find a manufacturer who doesn't do this same shit these days - I dunno - the only hoope is to get a business/enterprise product that you pay for up front and then has long term support and is meant to be repaired - I'll swap out a drum / fuser / etc... happily thank you.
check refill price (Score:3)
This likely would not have been an issue if ink were reasonably priced and if they did not vendor-lock the cartridges.
Years ago, HP taught me to check for 3rd party refills purchasing a printer. Beyond just the money, it also helps one predict what life with the manufacturer will be like.